r/travel • u/AutoModerator • Feb 28 '19
Discussion r/travel Topic of the Week: 'Language Learning'
Hey travellers!
In this weekly community discussion topic we'd love to hear your thoughts, ideas and experiences with travelling to learn another language.
Have you taken language courses abroad? Learned a new language through immersion in another culture? Been a waitress to get better?
Please share with us all your experiences with learning a language abroad!
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u/kvom01 United States 50 countries Feb 28 '19
I took a 2-week immersion course in France about 30 years back. I was living with French fiancee's family at the time and wanted to improve my French. It was very useful, albeit not cheap.
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u/pinguinito123 Feb 28 '19
I studied abroad in Argentina to improve my Spanish after taking several years of classes but being incapable of having a conversation (yay America). I definitely made the mistake of spending all my time with other Americans/foreigners who spoke better English than Spanish. However, I still took classes in Spanish and lived wish a host that didn't speak English (as a bonus, she was also blind, so I couldn't even communicate with hand gestures/body language), on top of going about my daily activities.
I didn't become fluent, but I improved my listening skills considerably and gained a lot of confidence in speaking. It also gave me an actual passion to learn the language, rather than just trying to learn it as a resume builder. Learning in a classroom memorizing vocab and conjugations didn't do much for me, but being able to communicate with people and understand a whole new culture really inspired me. I worked pretty hard at it once I got back to the US and got myself a Venezuelan boyfriend, so I now consider myself pretty fluent. I've been back to Latin America several times since my study abroad trip and feel that speaking the language really adds to the experience. Hoping to eventually move abroad and learn another language!
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u/ExternalUserError United States Mar 02 '19
FWIW, I've found it much easier to pickup Spanish in places like Colombia or Mexico.
Chile and Argentina are too fast. I knew I wasn't alone in that when a native Colombian told me she can't understand Chilean Spanish.
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u/pinguinito123 Mar 02 '19
I totally agree. Argentinian Spanish really threw me for a loop when I arrived. I got used to it, but it's definitely not the easiest dialect. I have a much easier time understanding my boyfriend and his friends/family than I ever did speaking to Argentinians. My boyfriend also jokes about not understanding Chileans, which makes me feel much better when we come across one and I only understand half of what's going on.
But just with any language, I think it all depends on what you're exposed to. Mexican and Spanish Spanish are pretty standard for a lot of Americans learning Spanish because they're so common. Venezuelan and Argentinian Spanish aren't too difficult for me because I have a lot of experience with them. However, I have a hard time with some of the Caribbean dialects because I haven't had a lot of exposure to them. So nothing is impossible if you spend enough time getting used to them.
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u/adventurescout140 United States-->Dominican Republic Mar 06 '19
I have a hard time with some of the Caribbean dialects because I haven't had a lot of exposure to them.
Just speak super fast and don't enunciate at all, and there you have Caribbean Spanish
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u/ExternalUserError United States Mar 02 '19
But just with any language, I think it all depends on what you're exposed to. Mexican and Spanish Spanish are pretty standard for a lot of Americans learning Spanish because they're so common.
Yeah, sort of. It's also just that they pronounce the words more like they're written. They don't "swallow" consonants like they do especially in Chile. But I totally agree.
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u/HarryBlessKnapp East East East London Mar 05 '19
Argentine Spanish baffled me. Then we went to Bolivia. Then I came back to Argentina and it was like coming home
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Feb 28 '19
I have a fun story from this week - I have only learned a little Italian from Duolingo, music, and the occasional old movie. This week I was in northern Italy, and found that it came back so quickly! I was at a restaurant and was able to understand the menus and chat with the family who owned it, entirely in Italian! By the end of the trip I was basically functioning in shops and restaurants on my own. It was super cool!
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u/TimeLadyJ 20 Countries Feb 28 '19
Prior to taking the visa-free cruise to St Petersburg, I did do a short language class. Mainly just learning the letters since they use a different alphabet. Many words are cognates so I was able to recognize some words when I was there.
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u/frankOFWGKTA Mar 02 '19
I always wanted to learn a language. Wanted, as in, 'I would love to be able to speak another language one day' wanted. It was not a priority of mine, but it was always something i could see myself doing one day. Once I met two guys who spoke 6 languages between them. That was the point I thought 'Damn I need to learn a language one day'. But, still it remained not a priority.
Then I went on my first solo trip, and I wanted to learn the basic phrases for that country. I learned the odd word but that was it, lessons were too dear and I couldn't find the resources. But, when I was there I noticed everyone spoke multiple languages. I'd have to say the average person I met spoke 3 languages. I met some people who spoke 5/6, and an American who spoke Arabic. That was the turning point where I thought 'Damn, I seriously need to sort myself out and learn a language other than my own!'. So when I got home i decided to learn German, I went to Germany multiple times, the longest visit being a month. Now I'm at b1/b2. I'm aiming to learn Spanish soon and take a trip to a Spanish speaking country for immersion.
One trip abroad just randomly sparked an interest in languages. Now i'm genuinely fascinated in languages whereas before I could not care less. I'm still years behind everyone else though.
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u/krkrbnsn Mar 01 '19
In university I studied abroad in France. I knew that I wanted to learn French as much as possible so instead of choosing the Paris programme, I chose Bordeaux. On top of that it was an immersion course so I took the same classes as the French students and lived with a host family. It was an amazing 6 months and my French excelled faster than it had the previous 2 years. I definitely advocate for doing immersion as much as possible.
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Mar 03 '19
I studied abroad in Budapest, Hungary in the fall of 2017. We weren’t really required to take Hungarian but I am SO glad I did. Knowing the language actually saved my ass at one point as I was with my friend trying to get to Eger and we had no idea we had to switch trains so we missed our stop, so we got off somewhere in the middle of nowhere, no cell service for google translate and I bought two tickets using only Hungarian!
Beyond that, holy crap it’s a hard language. One of the hardest things for me was this concept of Hungarian normally being spoken so perfectly amongst native speakers that when they don’t hear it right, they sometimes can’t even understand you. People would be gracious to hear you try and speak Hungarian which I appreciate but because Hungarian has a relatively small number of speakers, the people who know the language speak it perfectly - and when they don’t hear it in the perfect accent and pronunciation they sometimes struggle to understand what you’re even saying. This wasn’t a problem that often but damn it was a struggle sometimes. That being said learning another foreign language was super cool and helpful. Currently trying to learn Croat and that’s another struggle!
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u/kentaOnReddit Mar 01 '19
Anything else it's working better than a full immersion into a foreign language. I've been living abroad for 3 years and my English was terrible in the beginning.
I followed an English course for 6 months trying to improve as much possible the language in order to be confident enough for my job. Unfortunately, once I arrived I found out that I was in trouble.
The good part is that 3 months after I was in a completely different position and I'm keeping improving day by day.
So, my point is YES, Definitely!
If you want to learn a language properly, you need to speak that language and living on it.
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u/HarryBlessKnapp East East East London Mar 05 '19
I'm currently studying for a joint Spanish and French degree with the open University in the UK. Part-time, whilst working, caring for a toddler, with no family nearby to help, plus preparing for a 2nd child and desperately trying to stick with my weight training. Yes..... this IS a humble brag.
Anyway, I've been listening to cottongue podcasts. I'll find the link later. But it's a great free intermediate level French podcast, episodes about 30 minutes long and comes with transcripts. My job allows me to listen to stuff all day and since starting these, it has really boosted my learning, as it's fairly close to immersion, but most importantly, my sense of satisfaction. When I listen to a whole episode and can understand pretty much the whole thing, it's like a positive feedback loop. I'm learning more, but at the same time, get the see how much I've learnt so far in practice, and that feels good and makes it enjoyable and makes me want to learn more.
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u/Weather_No_Blues Mar 06 '19 edited Mar 07 '19
English Language Teacher here (hold an Ma. TESOL). Lived in China for 2 years teaching an intensive course for high schoolers headed for college in America. I have some thoughts on the subject.
A interesting parallel is observing the language competence of the expat community. Mandarin is basically an equal playing field for non native speakers. Some expats get by not speaking any. A greater percentage (myself included) speak only at a survival level. But there are expats that truly speak fluent Mandarin, and what they have in common is the completion of an intensive immersion course. That means at least 9 months of studying hard every day and YES that will achieve results in most people (regardless of natural language ‘talent’).
Another strong indicator of fluency success is a strong personal motivator. For my college bound students, it is the pressure to succeed academically and to fit in socially that drives them to success. For my expat peers most commonly a native speaking significant other or a professional engagement with native speakers (job) drives learners closer to language fluency.
I’ve had some real jokers come back to China after 1 or 2 years of college in America and be talking to me perfectly fluently. Almost unbelievable. Because I know for a fact these kids are not studying English that hard (bc I had taught them every day for the previous year) , but the results they got in America were far greater than what they achieved with me. So there is something to be said for immersion.
So in conclusion- A structured language course gives you a great foundation, a strong personal motivation helps a great deal, and immersion (while not enough on it’s own) certainly doesn’t hurt and speeds things up by providing meaningful practice.
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u/Jess7286 United States Mar 06 '19
I speak and read Chinese pretty proficiently in addition to English, and I cannot remember which language I learned first - it was probably both simultaneously.
That said, I always find that my internal language of thinking changes depending on where I am. When I am living in the States, I will think in English, but when I was living and working in China, I thought in Mandarin, and my ability to recall vocabulary was much faster, because I heard and read more. I also took one semester of language course in China to improve my proficiency at reading simplified Chinese and using pinyin (I was taught traditional). Nowadays, I have to force myself to read news articles in Chinese daily or else I feel like I'm losing my fluency.
Also, I took Spanish in high school, but because I never practiced it daily, my ability was probably that of a 3 year-old. That said, when I was traveling in Peru for a month, I noticed my Spanish becoming exponentially better and I could understand more, granted my conjugation was heinous, but the second I returned to the States, adios espanol.
When I'm traveling, I find that it helps if I write down words as I learn them, so I can refer back later and use as reference. It's also easier to improve vocabulary when you're in regions that all use a similar language. In the Balkans, I used the Croatian words/phrases I learned while I was in Croatia in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and Slovenia, and granted there were differences, many things were still the same.
One language that that does NOT hold true for is Arabic, since there are so many dialects, and every country speaks a different one with different colloquial phrases. I first learned phrases and words in Moroccan Darija, and since that was the first Arabic-speaking country I'd been to, thought that it would get me by when I went to the Levant and the Gulf. Just kidding. Egypt uses very different words and phrases, and even "how are you" is different from country to country. I was able to carry about 5 minutes of basic conversation in Morocco but when I got to Egypt, people just stared at me.
EVEN COUNTING TO TEN WAS DIFFERENT. Even the word for BREAD was different in Egypt. It was painful. I didn't even know Morocco isn't called Morocco in Arabic until I got to Egypt. "Where have you been?" "Morocco." Blank stare. (It's called al Maghrib - "the West"). Learning street vernacular on the streets (which is how I learned, asking local friends and CS hosts, etc.) is way different than learning Modern Standard Arabic, and if I were to choose one dialect of Arabic to learn properly, it would be Egyptian due to the amount of speakers and the ease of access to Egyptian media in the Arab world. Also, transliteration is NOT helpful. Pyramid transliterated is "haram" which is not the same "haram" meaning "prohibited, forbidden". And, the one Arabic song I know in full (Babylone - Zina) means "beautiful" but zina can also mean "adultery", which is why most Arabic speakers type in Arabic script.
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u/Shanghai_Craft Feb 28 '19
I lived in China for 7 years. I never took any classes except for 1-2 hour weekly tutoring. Many times when people live in foreign countries they tend to gravitate towards the other foreigners. I learned most of my Chinese from spending time with Chinese friends who didn’t speak english. I would also write paragraphs about myself in Chinese so that I could introduce myself better.
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u/Jess7286 United States Feb 28 '19
This. If you only hang out with foreigners, your foreign language ability won’t improve as much unless none of the foreigners share a common language with you aside from the one you’re trying to learn.
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u/Kidp3 Cosplaying as a local Mar 01 '19
Couples are pretty good examples of this. For example, in Latin America, I usually find couples lag way behind in Spanish/Portuguese compared to solo people travelling for the same amount of time, if they can even speak at all.
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u/sjordan10 Mar 01 '19
I’ve been using Duolingo recently before I go to France. Not sure yet if it’s useful or not
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Mar 04 '19
You can get by as a tourist almost anywhere with just good communication skills regardless of if you know the local language or not.
Emphasize "get by".
Knowing the local language really does open up a lot of doors that will otherwise be closed to you.
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u/wishiwasntasub Mar 04 '19
Languages are a huge thing for me because my family tends to move states every two years or so, and in India, that means I have to learn a new language every two years in order to be able to converse with locals. Eventually I got really good at picking up languages, although it's probably only because of all the practice I've got. I currently speak six languages, five of them Indian, and while I would only call myself truly 'fluent' in English, I've got a decent enough grasp on the others.
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u/Traven111 Mar 04 '19
I have two very different experiences that have given me a perspective on “immersive” language learning:
When I was young (19-21) I served a mission for a church and was sent to Lima, Peru. Their language training approach was to teach a condensed Spanish program for about 6 weeks. After that we were paired with a companion (often, but not always a local speaker) and sent out into the surrounding area to teach. I remember thinking, “I still don’t feel comfortable speaking Spanish to the locals yet but I’ll give it shot anyway”. They assured us that the language would start “clicking” as soon as we surrounded ourselves with the locals speaking the language. Several months later in Arequipa, I was still having a tough time speaking and often said something confusing and offensive. It took me a good 6 months to feel fluent enough to hold a basic conversation without the help of an another translator. All while being “immersed” in the country. I doubt I would have survived without a companion after only 6 weeks of learning.
A few years later during University I wanted to learn Japanese. A friend told me about Rosetta Stone and said it helped her learn Russian. I had no expectations when I got it but I made myself practice an hour everyday. I also really got into writing out the Hiragana and Katakana while going through the lessons. Since I had no immediate plans to travel yet I took my time over the next year learning the language. Come Spring the following year I took my first trip to Kyoto, Japan and wow, I felt so much more equipped than I did in Peru. I was actually able to read signs and speak with greater confidence in the first week than I did in the first 6 months of getting thrust into Peru.
My take away was: without the proper understanding of grammar and time to apply it I was constantly struggling to comprehend if what I was parroting back was actually correct in real conversation. So please try and learn as much of the language as you can prior to visiting. Just because you’re surrounded by the language doesn’t mean you’ll know how to “use” it correctly.
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Mar 05 '19
Are you mormon?
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u/Traven111 Mar 05 '19
The irony of your question is I actually left the church half way through my mission.
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u/martiespresso Mar 05 '19
I'm originally from Lithuanian , however, have lived quite a lot outside of the country, and have visited many EU countries. I have studied English in the private English American school for 8 years + high school English lessons.
I started my journey in Guernsey (Channel Islands) where I arrived fully confident about my English until the chap (which had to take me from the airport) asked me in plain English "Did you had a decent trip?" however with a heavy accent (from Manchester)
At that moment I realized, that's going to be fun.
Four years have passed, and only now I can talk to people from various regions in the UK without asking them to repeat what they have said.
So I believe true experience is the way to go ...
However, best of luck learning!
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Mar 06 '19
I never knew if I was capable of learning a new language or not, but I was quite determined to learn once I moved to Germany for a second Master. my studies were in english, but I took grammar classes for two semesters, and spoke on the bus, train, supermarket etc, always in German. I had a offline dictionary on my phone and i would try as much to hear and repeat what people would say to me. In my free time, I also watched a ton of youtube channels which helped me get a feel for the language faster than only a grammar class would. After, one year, I started to confidently take part in conversations even if I spoke with broken language and hung out with people who would ONLY speak german. This helped me fast track my speaking skills a lot in a period of two years. Today, I can confidently understand about 90% of what is being said to me and respond adequately. My grammar is not perfect, I cannot read or translate technical stuff, and I would never be able to give a proper report in German at work, but for all other purposes my german is now close to fluent! I think one can definitely learn a language being away from the country where it is spoken, but nothing is as fast or long lasting as 100% immersion. Here are some tips I used to start speaking a new language. https://indiangirling.com/talking-german/
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Mar 06 '19
I studied Spanish in Ecuador and Peru. I took Spanish classes while I was there. I think what really helped was the classes AND the immersion. In the US you learn Spanish in school but then you don't use it. In Latin America not only was I learning but then I was forced to use it. Almost no one spoke English (including my teacher in Ecuador). Learning about how to conduct business at a market and then going to a market where I had to use those skills was amazing. You'd be surprised how fast you pick it up when your thrown into it. It's definitely been harder to make progress while I'm back in the U.S. because I'm not forced to use Spanish here (or I rarely am).
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u/BrilliantDisguise84 Mar 07 '19
I started learning English when I was nine and continued to do so until I graduated highschool. Took a few courses at uni that were in English. A few years later I attended an international master's program in English, and studied in Ireland for one semester. I can't say I think my English improved that much because of the exchange studies but it made me understand the Irish accent which has been useful. I'm sad I couldn't learn it myself.
I started learning French when I was twelve and continued to do so until I graduated highschool. I choose to attend a BA program which included language studies and I chose French. I studied in France for one semester. The first time I went grocery shopping and the cashier talked to me and I didn't understand a word I realised how hard it would be. What you learn in school does not prepare you for what you need in real life. But after a few weeks my understanding had improved a lot. I was listening to French radio, watched French tv (Thank you, À prendre ou à laisser!) studied in French, wrote in French, read in French. The only thing I couldn't do was talk. Anyway, the courses I took at uni were with French students and the exams were in French. When I passed the International Public Law exam I knew I was fine. And one night I watched a stand-up show in French and understood the jokes and while laughing I suddenly just realised I UNDERSTAND THIS. Ah, good times. Unfortunately that was over ten years ago and my French is nowhere near as good anymore.
Also studied Spanish and German in high school. Never really liked those languages but they help me understand other languages so they're useful like that.
Started studying Serbian about five years ago because of work and I've been taking classes here and there. A completely new language and alphabet which has made it so much easier understanding Slavic languages (and also being able to read cyrillic).
Was working in Hungary in 2017, learned nothing but hello, goodbye, thank you and good job. It was really hard communication with the Hungarians because they basically just speak Hungarian. I remember when I tried to ask a girl in her early 20s about something in English and she looked genuinely terrified and then just turned around and left.
I'm working in Greece now and after a week or so I'm now kind of reading the alphabet (thanks to my knowledge of the cyrillic alphabet and Wikipedia) and every time I sound out each letter and then get the word I feel really proud. Haha. I tried using Duolingo before going to Greece but I did not like it at all. We'll see how much Greek I will learn but I'm pretty sure it will be more than the Hungarian I left with.
And yes, I agree that the more languages you know the easier it gets to learn another one or at least understand written words and texts.
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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '19
In my experience - not just personal but in knowing dozens upon dozens of expats living in a variety of countries, the "immersion" concept is somewhat of a myth. You still need to study, practice and put in effort if you hope to make a significant impact on your language abilities, no matter how long you spend in a country.
Sure, some people are language savants - but most stories of people going somewhere and leaving "fluent" after 6 months or a year are bullshit. Just lies.