r/Anticonsumption • u/Healthy_Block3036 • 1d ago

Corporations Target struggles after end of DEI program and boycott, with foot traffic down 8 weeks in a row.

https://fortune.com/2025/04/01/target-dei-demise-boycott-foot-traffic-down-eighth-consecutive-week/?itm_source=parsely-api
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u/BrownEyeBearBoy 1d ago

It's all fun and games until Amazon is our only fucking option

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u/findingmike 1d ago

Amazon's stock is hurting too, but they make a lot of their money from server hosting. I hear that there is a resurgence of buy local and Costco is doing well.

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u/GrandmaPoses 1d ago

Amazon fucking sucks too and they seem to be overly reliant on Chinese merchandise these day.

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u/BlazinAzn38 1d ago

It’s all Chinese knockoff crap now. I’ve started buying direct from manufacturers now because it’s the only way to get genuine merchandise

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u/OneGayPigeon 1d ago

This is the way! Use Amazon to find the things you want since practically every easily found result is from Amazon or Walmart, then search the actual manufacturer and buy direct.

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u/Brock_Lobstweiler 1d ago

Literally the opposite of how Amazon became popular. We used to joke how Best Buy was a demo store for Amazon purchases.

Now I look up options on Amazon and then find the products at other sellers.

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u/Crazed_rabbiting 22h ago

Same. Found better deals too

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u/AnotherRTFan 18h ago

Also a good way to get out of the house. Post Covid lockdown I like going out to the shops to get what I need way more

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u/HeatNoise 22h ago

me too

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u/Crazed_rabbiting 22h ago

Same. Found better deals too

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u/Well_read_rose 1d ago

Even better? Put it in your amazon cart…leave it there….then go to the other retailer to purchase

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u/VulpesFennekin 11h ago

Amazon is now Pinterest for shopping lists.

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u/OneGayPigeon 23h ago

I’ve heard people say that! My instinct would have been not to interact at all, or as little as possible. What effect does this have?

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u/Pretend-Marsupial258 21h ago

It's like a shopping list and helps you remember what you're getting. Plus, it has reviews so you'll have some idea of how good it is and what issues you could run into.

(Side note: I check reviews on Fakespot)

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u/Well_read_rose 18h ago

I think if many ppl abandon shopping carts like in the boycott week last month, Amazon takes note. It’s a data point at the very least that you didnt buy, because you went elsewhere.

Sometimes amazon will tap you - hey you didnt check out ?

With super high tariffs on Chinese goods starting…Amazon is going to hike prices anyway! So might pay to shop local.

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u/McUberForDays 21h ago

Also a great way to shop "local" boutiques. I want to preface this by saying I enjoy buying local and will pay more for things I love from local suppliers. However, I will not pay 2-3x mark up prices on clothing and shoe brands that I can easily research online. I understand the boutiques probably have overhead they have to pay, but that's ridiculous. The shop local advocates seem to forget that their friends and neighbors can't afford to shell out 3x the manufacturers cost on things that may or may not be of good quality.

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u/IntensityJokester 21h ago

If only they hadn’t ruined their search via monetization. Like Google. If the enshittification shoe fits …

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u/DorianGre 22h ago

Don’t you want Watgag branded toothpaste? Boorap branded jeans? NVEESHOX, Fosman, or QINLIANF. It’s just a reseller that brands Chinese crap. Brand names mean nothing on Amazon any more. Try to search for Nike Air Jordans. The first result is ikuna sneakers.

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u/Direct_Wind4548 1d ago

For real, it's also often cheaper for pricier stuff. Expensive things like firearms optics get counterfeited constantly on there at several hundred dollars a pop with no support if it's a dud.

That's why I'll buy local or research for direct because I can't risk that kind of a loss of cash and time.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Questionsquestionsth 1d ago

Well, you can until May 2nd, anyway. 🫠

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u/AnotherRTFan 18h ago

My stepmom bought me a bottle of plant resin off Amazon for Christmas (it was what I asked for) but I was on DM assistance with the company and posting on Reddit to find out if the bottle was legit because this is such a big problem. (It was. They had recently changed the logo layout on the bottle)

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u/SquareExtra918 12h ago

Me too. Most of them have faster shipping and rewards programs too. I've actually savee money because I  just buy the stuff I actually want rather than trying to find a deal on some sort of like what I want, which results in me buying a bunch of cheap shit that sucks, then replacing it with more cheap shit that sucks. 

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u/dungerknot 1d ago

I canceled my membership at the start of the year. Good. Amazon and similar companies deserves to topple over after fucking their foundation for decades.

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u/Infamous-Goose363 1d ago

Delete all your payment methods. I’ve heard of them charging people for Prime even after they cancelled.

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u/senorita_season 1d ago

I cancelled mine too when it expired. Best decision I’ve made this year so far. It turns out that doing some research on what I buy and spreading my money around both online and in person, especially to smaller businesses, saves me money and I get better products than what Amazon offered. Of course if I can’t find a super niche product I’ll search for it on Amazon, but most of the time I can find the same item at a different online retailer and choose that instead. I don’t mind waiting for shipping either.

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u/TaterTappin 1d ago

That’s about when I did it too. And it’s not as bad as I thought it was going to be. I found it’s patience that Amazon really takes away from you. It was a good decision and I would love to see them fall too.

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u/No_Accountant3232 1d ago

Plus side tariffs will kill off half the sellers on Amazon and eBay easily. There just won't be the money to import the cheap copycat crap anymore for drop shippers.

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u/ElvenOmega 1d ago

Products have became insanely homogenized and it makes Amazon inconvenient to use now.

You used to be able to find whatever you were looking for, even something ultra specific, like a bath towel with limes on it. The search shows you lemon hand towels and lime colored bath towels. Well, I can find both those at any home store near me, so why the hell would I use Amazon anymore??

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u/caligirllovewesterns 1d ago

Amazon’s quality has gone down in so many ways. Twice now in about 2 months they have screwed up my order. Claimed they lost or damaged a shipment and 10 days later just sends me a refund minus the shipping cost I had to pay. This was with a Prime Discount that I had and I needed the order ASAP, not a refund 10 days later! Some of the stuff I actually needed like a certain kind of eyedrops that I use.
Ironically enough after that I just went to nearest store to me that carried those particular eyedrops AND were on sale for a cheaper price than Amazon, AND this WAS at Target or all places! That was a surprise. Target can usually cost a bit more in some areas I’ve noticed so I was very surprised and bought two packs to hold me over.

After all that, I’m so fed up now with Amazon at this point that I didn’t even renew my Prime membership and don’t shop through Amazon anymore. It’s becoming a ripoff sadly. Amazon has two very large shipping hubs that very close to where I live, I live in town and an easy address to find, and I don’t buy hard to find items that Amazon would have trouble having in stock. When I first bought stuff through Amazon they usually stuff that they have had in stock and was quick order and receive within a couple days and bit cheaper to buy; especially in bulk. For some reason that all went downhill recently so Amazon pretty much lost me as a customer.

Time to find a new place to shop. I now buy what I need off of EBAY more often then not for that exact same “discounted” price at Amazon and receive my order a lot sooner than I ever did with Amazon in the recent days. For other items I’ve gone to thrift stores and shop locally for now.

Amazon needs to stop outsourcing their products to China, especially products that are especially easy to get here in the United States in bulk. Amazon was way more convenient to use when they first started out and were not outsourcing their products overseas.

Lately though, their quality has gone way down hill.

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u/WideFeeling9515 1d ago

I’ve been having similar issues with Amazon these past several months too!  Just had to fight to get my money back for some subscribe and save items.  Went out and bought what I needed elsewhere. 

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u/Thestrongestzero 1d ago

it’s slowly just turning into aliexpress. even the design of the site

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u/TheMimicMouth 1d ago

Amazon is really more of a marketplace than anything else. Almost everything sold on there is dropshipped by independent sellers; so yes it’s basically temu with a more appealing wrapper.

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u/dildobagginss 1d ago

Right, the retail side of it isn't as good as it used to be. But that's not even their bread and butter anymore.

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u/PaperTigerFolds 1d ago

A lot of things on Amazon are available on Aliexpress, for far less. Amazon is just a middle-man. If you don't mind waiting a week or two to get your items, you can just go straight to the manufacturer.

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u/RocktoberBlood 1d ago

I barely use Amazon for that exact reason. I want a specific item, it's why I searched it. I don't need to go to page 3 to find exactly what I typed in. And then, when you do find it, you have to question it's authenticity.

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u/Snobolski 1d ago

Where can I buy an American-made phone charger and have it at my door in the morning? I'd love that option.

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u/lyngen 1d ago

Yes! Like they are convenient but I'm never sure of the quality of what I'm getting. Not to mention how they treat their workers. We are boycotting and haven't missed it.

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u/mad_science_yo 1d ago

Yes I won’t buy any of my hair care/skincare stuff from them just because there are so many weird counterfeits. Luckily I found out a local place sells my preferred curly hair conditioner so I don’t have to go to Target anymore either.

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u/Odd-Help-4293 1d ago

Yeah, I mostly stopped using it even before all this, because the search results became 90% crappy Chinese knockoffs. No I don't want a VGFYWQ brand USB drive that most likely has malware and half the memory advertised.

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u/Secret_Ad1215 1d ago

Well you can buy through the actual company’s site instead of Amazon.

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u/AndyTheAbsurd 15h ago

I have tried that and several times have found that the "buy now" button is actually just a link to the product page on Amazon's site.

Still worth doing, but Amazon is willing to handle a lot of warehousing and shipping for companies, so it's not always going to help as much as one would like.

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u/Unabated_Blade 1d ago

What if the company hosts their website on Amazon Web Services?

Secondly, how do you feel about having this conversation on Reddit, a site that is hosted on Amazon Web Services?

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u/reduces 1d ago

No one is perfect. You can still stop shopping at Amazon to make a dent in their profits even if you use sites with AWS.

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u/ezrs158 23h ago

It is literally impossible to avoid/boycott AWS. It is the foundation of 33% of the global internet and 58% of Amazon's profits. When there's even a small regional outage, dozens of sites and services that we all rely on go down. I'm all for boycotting Amazon.com/retail business, but there is no realistic way to take on AWS except push for a government that will tackle monopolies, because it really should be its own company.

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u/mpyne 1d ago

Costco is doing well but a they weren't a secret, a lot of their locations are persistently full of shoppers already, not sure how they'll squeeze more in there.

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u/Molotov_Glocktail 1d ago

I can't remember where I just heard this, but people are going to start transitioning their purchasing. I'm not going to trust a fucking thing unless a real life person that I'm standing in front of recommends the actual real thing they're holding in their own hands.

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u/StoicallyGay 1d ago

I heard AWS is their biggest profit center. Amazon the online store is way smaller. Never confirmed it myself but seeing how much my company spends on AWS…I’d believe it.

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u/Unabated_Blade 1d ago

It's 100% accurate.

Although AWS sales ($28.8 billion) accounted for just 15% of Amazon’s total sales ($187.8), the cloud unit’s operating profits ($10.6 billion) continued to make a huge difference in the company’s profitability — representing more than 50% of Amazon’s overall operating profits of $21.2 billion for the quarter.

https://www.geekwire.com/2025/amazons-quarterly-profits-soar-to-a-record-20-billion-but-cloud-growth-comes-up-short/

Amazon Web Services, which hosts such heavyweights as Reddit itself and the US Government, is the real secret sauce for Amazon. They could lose all their ecommerce/prime memberships and still make utterly insane amounts of money.

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u/TrineonX 1d ago

The cost of buying all those servers for US hosting just went up 50%.

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u/MyMajesticness 1d ago

Hard to boycott Amazon fully on Reddit when Reddit itself runs on AWS.

And even if I avoided all AWS sites during personal time, the system I'm an admin of just converted over to AWS.

(If we had Teddy Roosevelt or someone else willing to bust up monopolies/trusts, AWS would be divested from Amazon.com.)

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u/Independent_Plate_73 1d ago

We had Lina Khan starting the work of the gods. But alas. 

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u/Remarkable_Ad9767 1d ago

Almost positive they would be in the red if it weren't for AWS. that's where they actually make all their money. Pretty sure Amazon warehouse stuff is a loss leader, but I could have read wrong....

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u/mcferglestone 1d ago

I wonder how many gold bars Costco is selling these days.

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u/0spinbuster 1d ago

I was pretty uninformed about how much more Amazon does besides being another storefront until recently. For context, I do commercial HVAC, and we take care of 3 Amazon buildings per their contracts. Every time we do the maintenance, security has a tight hold on us. Having to present ID, proof of citizenship etc just to enter the facility. I always wondered why everything was so strict until I found out that these buildings are where all their government contract stuff operate out of

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u/DonnaJean0919 1d ago

Look at the comments on Target's FB page. All about how great Costo is, LOL It's fabulous 👌🏻

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u/Whole_Cranberry8415 22h ago

Costco has good quality and great return policies, just makes sense!

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u/ResponsibilityLast38 20h ago

Its so much more than that. Basically... if you are using the internet, you are using amazon aws.

https://spacelift.io/blog/who-is-using-aws

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u/rowenstraker 20h ago

It's been difficult to find prices as low and sometimes to find specific items but it's worth it to not fund bozo.

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u/AnotherRTFan 18h ago

Costco reigns supreme

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u/Konlos 13h ago

My wife went to our costco on a random tuesday morning and evidently it was super full of people. Hopefully that means people are voting with their money

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u/Even_Confection4609 1d ago

Buy local where?

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u/findingmike 1d ago

I hope that you have the ability to figure that out for yourself.

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u/Even_Confection4609 18h ago

I hope you have the ability to realize that not everything has an affordable local alternative Or sometimes even any local alternative

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u/Classic-Progress-397 1d ago

Use THIS method with Amazon. Find the thing you want to buy... look at the name of the company selling it through Amazon. Leave Amazon site and Duck Duck Go the name. Buy direct from the website. I find it will always be cheaper, and it punches Amazon in the gut. I have religiously used this method ever since Bezos graced the inauguration. I have saved lots, supported small businesses, and given the finger to Bezos with every purchase.

PS watch for fake companies that Amazon has created to get around this issue.

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u/brontosaurusguy 1d ago

Yeah except shipping is the biggest cost on many household items

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u/Classic-Progress-397 1d ago

Hasn't bothered me yet. I still save money, even with shipping.

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u/Equal_Audience_3415 1d ago

We are boycotting them, too.

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u/thewayisunknown 1d ago

A lot of people stopped using them too

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u/Ok_Specialist_2545 1d ago

Man, I’ve been actively looking for smaller local options for toiletries and school supplies and it’s a trip.

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u/brontosaurusguy 1d ago

If it's between target, Walmart, and Amazon...  Amazon all day.  I hate the suburban parking lot mega stores in every town

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

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u/Anticonsumption-ModTeam 1d ago

Recommending or soliciting recommendations for specific brands and products is not appropriate in this subreddit.

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u/blckberry13 1d ago

I’m boycotting them too

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u/Relevant_Maybe_9291 1d ago

While target is in no way a counter measure to amazon; this is spot on in that we totally need to rebuild and return to shopping at smaller retailers that are more likely to be owned by individuals and families as opposed to faceless mega corps.

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u/Elivey 1d ago

I'm deleting my Amazon account, fuck that I won't die without shit from Amazon.

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u/Winter_Day_6836 1d ago

I hate using Amazon

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u/Lfsnz67 1d ago

I am boycotting them too. I've gone back to buying local and buying DIRECTLY from the manufacturer of products. It's surprising how easy that is to do

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u/Lfsnz67 1d ago

I am boycotting them too. I've gone back to buying local, Costco, and buying DIRECTLY from the manufacturer of products. It's surprising how easy that is to do

Fuck Bezos

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u/stressedthrowaway9 1d ago

Naaaaah! I stopped buying from Amazon. They are more expensive and the quality of stuff is sketchy.

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u/Crazed_rabbiting 22h ago

I started buying from the manufacturers and skipping Amazon

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u/UraTargetMarket 22h ago

Like Buy n Large

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u/Working_Peach5661 18h ago

maker revolution is necessary power to the people

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u/ChasingObama 13h ago

We’ve never done Amazon, most things people get from Amazon they don’t need imo

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u/dungerknot 1d ago

Exactly. We shouldn't be rooting for private equity to destroy once again another retail corporation that isn't Walmart or Amazon.

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u/NewNewark 1d ago

At least walmart is a local family business

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u/Vexamas 1d ago

Yep. Unfortunately, it's an extremely hot take because humans are extremely vibes based and in a post 2015 world, a person's opinions are inherently their identity, so a critique on that is seen as a personal attack. Eyes glaze over and people hit downvote and move on to the next comment until they find the one that agrees.

Protests are good when they're actionable, and this is one of the many that are inactionable, and thus nobody actually wins. We should hold companies accountable, but when it's arbitrary and nebulous such as "dropping DEI? I'm not shopping there until you fix it" what does fixing it actually mean? How do you quantify that? How does the person that is doing a performative protest actually consume that they've 'fixed' it? Is there a threshold of DEI hires where people all, unanimously go "Oh! Okay, target are good guys again!" of course not, and this is a problem with it - same as the occupy wallstreet protests with the nebulous "Stop the billionaires" chats. No specific focus on actionable policy or mandates, just nebulous performative talking points.

Ultimately this just paves a way for Amazon to eat up more of the market, because the exit of an option like Target doesn't just suddenly mean the consumer no longer desires the product, they just move where they buy the product, and humans are incredibly fucking dumb and rarely have principles the millisecond it affects their quality of life; Which just means they'll pivot to buying those same products from Amazon, which leads to a whole 'nother problem.

We're so incredibly fucked because we're so incredibly performative and lacking in critical analysis and logic and I hate it.

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u/brontosaurusguy 1d ago

What are you talking about... It is actionable.  They could restore dei and celebrate lgbtq again.  

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u/Vexamas 1d ago

It is actionable... They could restore dei and celebrate lgbtq again.

You can literally be the person that changes my mind on this just by answering a question or two, seriously:

  1. Quantify what target would do to reinstate DEI? What, literal, change would they have to do for you to say "Target restored DEI"?

  2. What would celebrating lgbtq again look like? Is it parading the colors of the flags on pride month? Is it donating to lgbtq+ causes? Do you believe that the populace would not say "This is just Target, another corporation trying to buy their way into good graces, I don't believe them"?

  3. With the two above answers you've made, do you believe that the average person, people in this thread that have talked about stories of never shopping at target again, etc, seeing those changes, start going back to Target?

Again, this is totally in good faith and I'm NOT someone that will just walk away without a changed mind, I WANT to believe these protests are actionable, but nobody has ever been able to articulate the above points as victories. Please god bring me to the light, because 99.999999% of people are performative and just say something but don't actually have the critical analysis to prove their own thoughts out.

I want to be proven wrong so that I can be a person that writes a long winded effort response to the people that believe what I stated above and that I can articulate why they're wrong, but I need information grounded in reason and fact.

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u/Independent_Plate_73 1d ago

I’m not OP but I chose to boycott Target specifically because they went out of their way to pander to marginalized groups. I liked their stuff and not feeling like I was being suffocated by Waltons and Bezos. 

Then they chose to make a show out of ending their pandering specifically when Trump and his gooners got into office. 

I’m more boycotting the abject cowardice of doing it after Trump was elected. Rather than before; where the action may have been decoupled from cowardly politics. 

Everything we have from news to general stores is owned by performative asshole billionaires. At least have the balls to stand on your asshole balance sheet. Not capitulate to some fuckface that has never and will never step foot in your store. Idek if target has the same dumbfuck attraction that Tesla would have in ignoring/shitting on their demo while getting dumbfuck conservative cultists. 

So for me, I recognize Target does not love me and their DEI initiatives can have a natural end point. This didn’t seem that way. I hope they keep paying for their miscalculation of their customer base. 

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u/Vexamas 1d ago

Thank you for your response. I do not care if you're not OP, because as I mentioned, I'm looking for ANYONE to be able to pin down the three questions I asked, because even still, most protests just seem toothless without actual demands, and it's only worse as time goes on and new outrage occurs. I hate it because I want us to be able to make entities fear us, but I also work as a Product Manager for a very large company and I know that nobody ever 'fears' the outrage because, unfortunately, it's usually baseless with no actual victory or loss, you just have to 'take it' and then nothing gets done, so nobody wins.

but I chose to boycott Target specifically because they went out of their way to pander to marginalized groups.

If I explained and proved to you that almost all companies did the same thing, would you also want to boycott those companies? I ask because this is a fine, and totally reasonable stance in a vacuum, but I don't think it's consistent, right?

Then they chose to make a show out of ending their pandering specifically when Trump and his gooners got into office.

I’m more boycotting the abject cowardice of doing it after Trump was elected. Rather than before; where the action may have been decoupled from cowardly politics.

This totally makes sense, as a way to punish a company permanently, if boycotting means you will never shop there again because of their decision, but not if you want the company to do something about it (again, my original point is none of this is actionable)

You mention tesla, which is great, because I think the Tesla boycot DOES have an actionable, which is "Remove Elon completely from power of Tesla". There is a very EXACT actionable here which can be proven, reported on, and shown. It's binary and has no nuance or spectrum which can be argued. It's He's hired or he's fired. Pure.

Ultimately, I appreciate your response (as I love and am addicted to understanding different perspectives) but it doesn't seem like you're doing a temporary boycott, and you don't really wish to teach a specific company a lesson to bounce back from, you want to never associate with that company again, which again, I'm totally behind you on and think you're totally in the right to do - but you're not really able to answer the three questions I posed because you were never going to shop at Target again, right?

Thanks again for the response!

1

u/Independent_Plate_73 1d ago

Hey, sorry. I remember going from seeing the tech bros smiling behind that bitch at the inauguration. Then seeing Target basically do the same thing. So I conflate Target with Trump and went into a blind rage without answering your questions. 

Quantify what target would do to reinstate DEI? What, literal, change would they have to do for you to say "Target restored DEI"?

Idk what their numbers goals were so can’t quantify. Coincidentally saying they’re done with them after 1/20/25 lined them up to Trumpist agenda in my head. 

What would celebrating lgbtq again look like? Is it parading the colors of the flags on pride month? Is it donating to lgbtq+ causes? Do you believe that the populace would notsay "This is just Target, another corporation trying to buy their way into good graces, I don't believe them"?

Idk first hand about what marginalized communities can say feels like actual victory. But based on the political climate and timing, it felt like let’s go out of our way to worm into inclusion but then sell out to a tyrant at the first opportunity. Costco chose not to capitulate and hasn’t changed a thing about their goals or displays afaik. Maybe target could have done better market research and timed their announcement better. 

With the two above answers you've made, do you believe that the average person, people in this thread that have talked about stories of never shopping at target again, etc, seeing those changes, start going back to Target?

I personally do not and will not. Me personally because I was spending an inordinate amount of money there. Imo, they were not a store that people went to because they’re the cheapest and most convenient. Tarjay had a certain cache that encouraged little mindless indulgences that added up quickly. They’re actually one of the few companies I allowed to whorishly mine my data. Now, I recognize they’re just a tarted up Walmart waiting to get their chance to whisper into Trump’s ears too. 100 years ago, they’d be making snappy military uniforms. 

I realize this doesn’t quite give you the quantitative answers and actionability that you were looking for. 

But imo, the thing with encouraging loyal customers to engage with your company beyond numbers is that they will take your non-numbers based announcements as personal affronts. They chose to sever the loyalty they engendered.

Costco speaks to me in cheap chicken and employee benefits. Walmart in Arkansas billionaires. Amazon in Bezos enshitification. 

Here’s one number Target could consider, spend the the same amount of probono legal work that Trump has extorted from law firms vis EOs. So at least 200 million dollars that Target can set aside for people to sue Musk and the other illegal oligarchs rooting around in our government and our private information! 

/ I tried not to rant so much but forgot how pissed off they made me lol. 

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u/Vexamas 1d ago

I tried not to rant so much but forgot how pissed off they made me lol.

Ranting is good because it helps us hone our thoughts. Being mad is good because we should pour energy into things we care about, rather than being apathetic.

Thank you for ranting, and thank you for being mad.

Me personally because I was spending an inordinate amount of money there. Imo, they were not a store that people went to because they’re the cheapest and most convenient.

Understood. I think the issue I'd have, (and I need to preface when I say issue, this is not me pushing back and saying you're wrong, again, I can't stress enough that I want perspectives!) is that as a Product Person at a very large company that does competitive analysis, I think I understand that most companies, Target, Amazon, etc, all work from a profit motive. Very rarely do they have public opinions because it causes some calculation.

Costco is an outlier here, but also not as big as an outlier, because Costco never had a pride celebration month or anything.

When we look at the above discussion, and penalizing Target (which again, I'm totally for, so long as we make actionables) the only takeaway from other companies is:

When we do performative events to try and promote inclusivity, and go back on it, we get harmed, and there's nothing we can do to prevent that harm, so we should never do events that promote inclusivity.

This is not a win, it's a loss for everyone involved.

  • The consumer gets less catered products
  • The culture gets less diversification and exposure to topical or not fully accepted thoughts (LGBTQ+ pride)
  • Larger companies (Amazon here) suck up the lost consumers and gain more influence, even if they're directly in the pocket of those in power (Trump here)

What I'd advocate for is us working towards actionable solutions that have finate, unmuddlable outcomes to force companies to do, which not only scares companies and other entities but also incentivizes other companies to follow suite for the betterment of society.

A quick example that has a lot of flaws, but at least shows the point: If everyone firebombing and marking up TSLA cars and stores included "Get rid of Elon!" (A binary actionable) and TSLA board DID it, and THEN TSLA stock SHOT to the moon, then it would incentivize SpaceX and BORING and other companies associated with Elon to do the same because of the CARROT.

Ultimately companies are always profit driven and these nebulous protests miss out on both the actionable piece, and the ability to prove that doing the actionable rewards a company to see the fiscal benefits of doing so.

My last anectode, a personal protest that I had a voice in: I was working at a software company based in MN while George Floyd happened and the explosion of protests. The public protests were basically things to the effect of Defund the Police and End Racism, which again, are non-actionable. However, because those events happend in MY city, I rallied my developers and pushed to management that we demand an actionable response to show solidarity. I demanded we'd have a day that our team would 'give back' to the community, specifically the neighborhood where the event happened.

Not only were we given that day, because it was a black and white actionable demand, because it was widely seen as victory and a huge morale boost, the company even provided each team financial budgeting to do that exact thing.

We, the workers, provide money in the form of work, to the company, which is no different than we, the consumer, provide money in the form of purchasing products, to the company,

The difference again, is in the actionable.

God, now I"M the one with the giga-rant, and I'm sorry.

I just wish we, as a society, were a bit smarter and more focused on understanding what is actionable and what is not, and that we openly discussed how to get what we want. Instead, and you'll see this with my downvotes I'm sure, glaze our eyes over and just downvote instead of trying to find non performative solutions.

Ironically enough, the downvote and move on without trying to contribute to the discussion or show the other person your perspective is just as worthless as protesting without actionable demands.

I really enjoyed your perspective and for your scenario (not wanting to go back to the company anyways because they're sucking your wallet dry) it makes total sense.

I hope you have a great weekend and stay strong together through these fucked up times.

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u/Independent_Plate_73 1d ago

Well thank you. You accomplished your goal and helped me hone my thought. 

Since they dumped their inclusion to suck up to Trump. And in a parallel manner, big law is giving Trump and his sycophants hundreds of millions in potentially harmful probono work, I am now serious about Target matching whatever Trump extracts. 

Legal dollars and unending litigation is all these fucks understand. Let Target fund actionable help for the communities they’ve betrayed. And I can personally guarantee I will be back to routing their frivolities through my budget. 

Thank you again and enjoy your weekend. And hanging around long enough to make good points. Iron sharpeth iron or whatever lol. 

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u/brontosaurusguy 1d ago

That's a lot and I'm not that interested, but when target folded on lgbtq products because maga customers were crying, that ticked me off.  And they are anti union, but that's another day.  If they reinstated dei it would be a return to their previous practice of hiring with the goal of diversity and to make diverse employees feel welcome.  But in all the issues they leaned maga so I haven't been there in a year

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u/Vexamas 1d ago

Yeah - and I guess that's sort of the problem that we'll consistently run into. As I mentioned, we're very vibe based. Humans are terrible at understanding the distinction between actionable and quantifiability versus things that make them 'feel' a certain way. While I'd never ever tell anyone they were "wrong" to feel any way, it's just very much... par for the course, to be told something like:

What are you talking about... It is actionable.

and not have any actionable directives when pressed. That's why I asked for any specific metric that would you conclude "Oh, okay, they're good again"

Target could tomorrow say "We've reinstated DEI stuff" but what does that mean to anyone? If you believe that, then how did that prove there was anything that actually was being fought for or even was 'won' on, ya know?

Do you believe that at the moment, target is not hiring minorities or marginalized people? If your answer is "yes", then you have to take a step back and really ask if that's a reasonable thought, if your answer is "no" then you have to ask yourself "Then what was the DEI policy in the first place...?" and in either question, you should ask what is the actionable.

Which was my point... unfortunately...........

It's easy for humans to rally and be mad, but I've come to terms that it's uncommon for those 'feelings' to be grounded in reality, which ultimately just makes all protests in the future mean less, just like occupy wallstreet.

Protesting is very powerful when you can force an entity to do something, but we can't actually pin down analysis as an actionable to force target to do here.

Regardless, I appreciate your perspective, even if it was sort of expected. :/

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u/brontosaurusguy 1d ago

I think you had a argument, that humans are vibe based (I would just say humans are generally stupid, or better yet, we're apes wearing clothes), and tried to shoe horn your theory into this argument.  

Frankly I didn't need a metric, target can fuck off and go bankrupt I don't care.  My boycotts are primarily to remove them from my life.

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u/Vexamas 1d ago

Frankly I didn't need a metric, target can fuck off and go bankrupt I don't care. My boycotts are primarily to remove them from my life.

Totally! I get it! I just got excited because you started the exchange with:

What are you talking about... It is actionable.

So I thought I would be given grounded logic. By all means, I will never try and persuade someone to not do their right of voting with their wallet and hurting an entity / company they feel deserves to be hurt, which obviously Target is ... the target here! (hehe.)

I hope you have a good rest of your weekend!

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u/wtfreddit741741 16h ago edited 15h ago

The answer to your questions is to talk the talk and then walk the walk.

Be vocally and publicly supportive of minorities and diversity in a land where white straight supremacy is not just lauded but becoming legal policy.

And then back it up with hiring, choice of merchandise/ displays, and sponsorships.

Hate and bigotry is taking over this country.  They win people back by visibly and vocally standing up against it.

You bend the knee, expect to stay down.  Fuck Target.  (And Amazon.)  Shop local whenever possible.  And if it's not possible, then patronize places like Costco - who did the exact opposite of Target and gained customers for doing the right thing (regardless of what their reason for doing so might have been).

Edit to add: I'm as cynical as the next guy, and you can claim they're "just pandering to get your money".  But I'll still take doing the right thing over supporting discrimination any day.  And I'm glad to see people using their spending power to send this message.

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u/Vexamas 15h ago

The answer to your questions is to talk the talk and then walk the walk.

Respectfully, this did not answer a single of the three questions.

Basically everything you've said is your justification for torching the company to the ground, which is totally acceptable and your prerogative.

It's okay to put your foot on the ground and say you'll never support target again, I think it's clear a lot of people are saying that, however there's a big difference between saying that (which you did in the latter half of your comment) versus saying "there are quantifiable and actionable goals" which again, hasn't really been illustrated here.

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u/wtfreddit741741 15h ago edited 15h ago

Then you didn't read what I said.

It is not about quantifiable metrics or specific goals to meet.

It is about not bowing to pressure and about sending a message to the world that "anti-diversity" is bad and that you will have no part in it.  That people of all races and genders and sexualities matter.  

And then following through on that statement by visibly supporting marginalized groups - in hiring, in choice of merchandise and displays, and in sponsoring these groups in the community and the country at large.

I get the feeling that you DO actually understand this.  You are just choosing not to.

Edit to add: and i DID point out the behavior of a company that is a competitor to Target and which said "No, diversity equality and inclusion is important and we will NOT be going along with your hate".  And you know what?  They gained a shitload of customers for doing so.

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u/Vexamas 15h ago

I think we're speaking past eachother, or maybe you responded to the incorrect chain of comments. This entire chain of comments was a lead off of this statement:

Protests are good when they're actionable, and this is one of the many that are inactionable, and thus nobody actually wins. We should hold companies accountable, but when it's arbitrary and nebulous such as "dropping DEI? I'm not shopping there until you fix it" what does fixing it actually mean?

Quite literally every comment and response has revolved around the discussion of actionable goals (or lack there of!)

If a person's goal is to cut out Target completely, that's again, a fine goal, as I've said multiple multiple times already, because you don't need any actionable output from Target, because that person wouldn't care. In that person's eyes, Target has already crossed the rubicon and sullied their reputation forever.

However, if the person's goal was to temporarily punish Target until a result occurs, then the question becomes "What is the desired result, and how can that be demonstrably proven to people as a metric or condition for success". If your answer is "Bring back DEI" then again, as has been mentioned in this chain already, this has as much actionability as saying "Defund the Police" because it's arbitrary, muddled and non-binary.

It's no different than asking "How long is a piece of string?".

When we have directly actionable demands to a company, not only do we force them to act on it with direct initiatives they can prove, but it allows other companies to follow suite.

I get the feeling that you DO actually understand this.

Yes, obviously. That's not the point of this entire chain of discussion though.

Ultimately, if you're just saying "Well yeah, obviously, Target threw their lot in with Trump and bigotry" yes.. I agree, as do the 3,048 other comments in this thread. You'd be preaching to the choir, but this little corner of discussion was talking about the actionability of a protest (or lack there of), and why that can be problematic in the long-run to other protests.

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u/wtfreddit741741 14h ago

If your answer is "Bring back DEI" then again, as has been mentioned in this chain already, this has as much actionability as saying "Defund the Police" because it's arbitrary, muddled and non-binary.

No it's not.  

Clearly and publicly stating that you stand for something (and pushing back against pressure to discriminate) is incredibly important.  We saw Costco do it with DEI, we saw Disney do it with "Don't Say Gay", we've seen local businesses promote equality while their competitors were promoting discrimination (there was one just last week with a restaurant that offered a special for "man woman couples only".  the businesses down the block responded by offering "equality specials for everyone".  wanna guess how each business fared, both on social media, review sites, AND financially?)

And then you follow through on these statements by HIRING qualified people of all races and genders.  And having displays that PROMOTE equality, such as Pride and Juneteenth.  And by SPONSORING local events, parade floats, etc that support those who are being discriminated against.  And by DONATING to groups that defend people's rights, instead of donating to conversion camps or Orange Dictators.

There are plenty of actionable things to do, but it all starts with being a voice for the voiceless, rather than just another oppressor.

And i honestly don't get why you can't comprehend this.

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u/Vexamas 14h ago

Again, respectfully, I think the issue is just speaking past eachother. I think it boils down to the way this chain of comments that you've come into were using the word "Actionable" within context. Actionable here being not just "Doing something" but "Proving something", by definition, having metrics and making that quantifiable.

You're preaching to the choir and, for lack of better words, performing your virtues which again, unless you want me to screenshot the conversation and circle every time I've agreed with you and said I think the cause is just, I don't know how else to go beyond that.

I really wish you would have read the rest of the chain before going through this back and forth, but I'll provide, what I hope, is the 'ah-ha' moment:

My last anectode, a personal protest that I had a voice in: I was working at a software company based in MN while George Floyd was murdered and resulted in the explosion of protests. The public protests were basically things to the effect of Defund the Police and End Racism, which again, are non-actionable. However, because those events happend in MY city, I rallied my developers and pushed to management that we demand an actionable response to show solidarity. I demanded we'd have a day that our team would 'give back' to the community, specifically the neighborhood where the event happened.

Not only were we given that day, because it was a black and white actionable demand, because it was widely seen as victory and a huge morale boost, the company even provided each team financial budgeting to do that exact thing.

We, the workers, provide money in the form of work, to the company, which is no different than we, the consumer, provide money in the form of purchasing products, to the company,

The difference again, is in the actionable.

What I'm advocating for is something to the effect of this:

We, as a movement, say to Target: "If you want our marketshare back, you have to donate your month's losses to DEI efforts." This is actionable. To say "They have to hire people that deserve to be hired, especially if they're marginalized" is ceding a world that you believe target doesn't already do that which they do, which is the entire problem with nebulous inactionable demands.

And i honestly don't get why you can't comprehend this.

The issue, frankly and honestly, is you're confused why I don't understand the difference between green and brown, and you're talking to me like I may be colorblind, when in reality, the entire conversation is about dogs and cats, and had nothing to do with color.

We've deviated so far from what my intent was with this chain that I'll leave it here. Again, I'm on your side, you're arguing like I'm DEFENDING Target, but I'm not - I'm wishing that we as a society were smarter and understood the power of unifying under actionable causes for the betterment of society.

I hope you have a lovely rest of your weekend!

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