r/AskUS • u/nostaticzone • 1d ago
Why do leftists suddenly oppose tariffs and reshoring?
Historically, pro-labor leftists have supported tariffs and reshoring. My entire life I’ve heard leftists (and many on the right) say things like “greedy corporations shouldn’t offshore jobs and production just to save a few bucks.” Now that a US president is using tariffs to force corporations to pay “a few bucks” to reshore jobs and production to the US, why do leftists suddenly oppose this?
Is it because you don’t know how tariffs do this? Well, if a 50% tariff is put on Chinese products, a company that manufactures in China doesn’t raise prices 50%. That would be stupid, because nobody would buy their products and they’d go out of business. So what they do is manufacture in the US for “a few bucks” more per unit, and either cut profits or raise prices
So why do you oppose this? Is it because you didn’t know how tariffs worked? Did you know how they worked, but didn’t know you might be the one paying “a few bucks” more per item? Or is it because you’re so used to hearing pols and the media tells you “oRaNgE mAn BaD!” that you believe it instead of actually thinking about it? Something else?
You’re getting what you always wanted: someone to fight the people in control to help normal people. Of course, the people in control are telling you it’s “A Very Bad Thing.” The tragic part is you seem to believe them, maybe because you’ve been conditioned reflexively oppose anything “the other side” does, even when it’s what you want
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u/Brosenheim 1d ago
We don't. We oppose these specific tariffs because they aren't going to accomplish the stated goal. And because that stance is defensible, you have to imagine "against tariffs as a whole" in order to have an argument and narrative.
you're not defending the tariffs specifically, you're arguing in vague moralistic terms to try and turn around MSM slogans you were spoonfed and told to think represent the sum total of leftist ideology.
There's a reason the only way to argue against what leftists and liberals say is to instead imagine something else.
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u/jrdineen114 1d ago
Because, and I can’t believe I actually need to say this, a trade war with our closest allies is bad. And so far it seems like Trump cares more about erasing jobs than creating them.
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u/Traditional_Lab_5468 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm 35. I've never heard a political party advocate for tariffs in my entire life until Trump came along. Both Republicans and Democrats, as far as I was aware, viewed them a tool used by developing economies to protect industries against foreign competitors while they established an industrial base.
Democrats have generally advocated for reshoring, which is 100% not the same thing as a tariff. Reshoring would force employers to pay equal wages to overseas employees, disincentivizing the practice of outsourcing jobs for cheap labor.
You can argue that tariffs may tangentially achieve this effect, but the primary effect of a tariff is to discourage the import of foreign goods, not to incentivize the employment of Americans.
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u/Dismal-Detective-737 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because we're tariffing penguins. There was no thought process behind what is going on.
> So what they do is manufacture in the US for “a few bucks” more per unit
Yeah. Look at the shear quantity of stuff made in China. That manufacturing isn't coming back to the US, ever.
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u/TtotheC81 1d ago
To be fair penguins have gotten away with a lot of shit over the eons. It's about time they were made to pay for their penguin ways!
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u/Dinosaur_Ant 1d ago
This and the impetus under the current administration these things may likely come with further empowerment of big business and further consolidation of wealth and power and as we've seen efforts to break unions.
Also they are perhaps being done in a way which may open the power vacuum that is left in other parts of the world up to control by authoritarian patronage.
There are also concerns with pump and dump schemes not only with the meme coins and crypto but with the economy on a whole.
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u/Dar8878 1d ago
Why?
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u/Dismal-Detective-737 1d ago
It was never here in the first place. We don't have the resources for it or the space.
Go to Walmart, walk up and down electronics aisle. Every single SKU for every single company would need an entire factory. JBL isn't moving manufacturing to the US because of a tariff. They're a global brand.
You may get some bespoke companies like Apple doing something. But the shear volume of stuff we order from China. Go up and down random aisles of kitschy stuff like Easter Baskets, St. Paddy's day merch, etc. All "cheap garbage" made in China.
Most companies are global now, as stated. If your market is 20% US and the rest is Canada, India, South America, Europe, and Africa why would you spend all of the money on a factory for 20% of your customers to save a few bucks? (Especially when you now have a tariff on USA goods).
Do you really think we're going to spin up factories for stuff like this? https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807991275757.html There are hundreds of thousands of products just like that with established factories being sold globally. China companies DGAF that your kids toys cost more. American CEOs don't have the knowhow to spin up a factory to build toys here.
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u/hydraulicman 3m ago
And not just cheap stuff either, but expensive components for absolutely necessary machinery- the tools that make the components that make the machine that makes a thing
There are entire factories that just make different grades of wire, or computer components, or a handful of types of electrical motor. And it works because a few factories make everything of one thing for the whole world. Replicating it all in one country, just for the needs of one country, is impossible. It's the ham sandwich problem
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u/hydraulicman 8m ago
Frankly, there aren't enough people in America to manufacture everything a modern society needs. The global supply chain supplies everyone, going one way and the other
Just look at the manufacturer I work at. Without going into to much detail, we supply our components to places all over the US... and Brazil, and Mexico, and Canada, and Germany, and Japan, and on and on. One plant supplying all of it, instead of a good dozen supplying one or two countries each. We have a couple competitors, sure. But it's tooling, meant to go into specialized machinery, there isn't enough business in the US alone to justify the cost of making it
And that's one type of thing, multiply it across the entire economy. All the bits and pieces that make everything. There isn't enough people or enough customers to justify making so many necessary things in one country in anywhere close to a cost effective way
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u/Laz3r_C 1d ago
You've listened too much to the right leaders as well...
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u/TheMuffler42069 1d ago
What does that mean with regard to the post ?
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u/Boozeburger 1d ago
Trying to discuss something with an idiot or who's intentionally obtuse is futile.
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u/TheMuffler42069 1d ago
What is obtuse about the fact that progressives used to be pro tariffs and reshoring ?
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u/Killerkurto 1d ago
I’m in my 50s and I have been paying attention to politics for a good 35 years. Most of my friends have neen liberal throughout. Not a single time do I recall tariffs being a topic of conversation. I’m not saying you can’t find some, but I’ve never participated in a conversation about tariffs nor advocated for any.
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
You don’t remember liberals ever taking these positions ?
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u/Killerkurto 9h ago
Does saying it twice make it cleared for you?
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u/TheMuffler42069 9h ago
Well maybe it would cause you to check your work and realize that you’re wrong rather than standing up for a position that is clearly incorrect
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u/Killerkurto 8h ago
I didn’t have ti check my work because neither myself or any if my liberal friends had discussions about tariffs. I never said no one outside of my circle has ever discussed tariffs. But they weren’t a defining parrt of the liberal worldview as it wasn’t a subject that my various circles have ever discussed.
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u/TheMuffler42069 8h ago
Are you a congress person ? Or a cabinet member or a senator or any sort of politician ?
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u/TheMuffler42069 8h ago
Because that’s what we’re talking about. Were not talking about our personal awareness of something. We’re talking about whether or not it’s been a discussion and plan of action amongst the political establishment
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u/Killerkurto 8h ago
I had to read the history of tariffs in the US entry on wikipedia… you know why? Because I’m not familiar with the history because mostky no one talks much about tariffs.
You know why its not talked about much? “Since 1935, tariff income has continued to be a declining percentage of Federal tax income.”
Since WW2 the US has promoted trade policies that reduced tarrifs in the interest of promoting free trade. The last president listed to espouse protective tariffs was Theodore Roosevelt. The next listed was Trump.
So while you may be able to find individual politicians who have discussed tariffs, it hasn’t been a major part if any US president of either party in for nearly 70 years before Trump.
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u/TheMuffler42069 8h ago
I agree. I’m not saying it’s been a major part of an administration. I’m saying that it’s been a talking point of politicians throughout the years and has been suggested by republicans AND democrats. What is confusing about that ?
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
https://youtu.be/5fJyNoDUUIk?si=XT4oJSi1jd1fdzN7
So you don’t remember Nancy pelosi speaking about tariffs as shown in this video of her ? And Bernie sanders, you don’t remember him talking about how bad it was to be sending jobs overseas and how we should be bringing them back ?
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u/Killerkurto 9h ago
I know people have talked about jobs being lost to other countries. I do not recall tariffs being discussed as a solution.
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u/TheMuffler42069 9h ago
Well they have been
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u/Killerkurto 8h ago
Cool. If you want to link to some instances where presidents started trade wars with our allies with tariffs that would be helpful.
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u/TheMuffler42069 8h ago
Do you think that the millions of people that were terrified and very vocally opposed to going off the gold standard were right ? Do you think that their outrage was justified and do you think we would’ve been better off not going off the gold standard ? Was it better before or after ?
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u/TheMuffler42069 9h ago
Just like how presidents have been trying to get Greenland for a very long time. Same is true here
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u/Killerkurto 8h ago
By a very long time you mean, other then trump, the US made an offer in 1947. No one other then Trump made threats to take it by force. So… not sure its as compelling as you want to believe it is.
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u/Bitter_Hunter_31 1d ago
You can be pro tariff while still being anti bipolar-Opra-style tariff. There was ZERO intellectual plan to implement these tariffs in a way that would benefit the US while keeping the economy from going into a recession. The tariff information provided by the President and his team was factually inaccurate and inconsistent. The Democrats learned that the best way to bring back well-paying jobs without destroying the economy was to incentivize companies and not threaten them. No, the CHIPS Act hasn't been as successful yet as anticipated, but it was also the start. All these tariffs have done is incentivize our former trading partners to trade with other nations.
"You get a tariff, and you get a tariff, and you get a tariff..." is a terrible way to implement an economic policy.
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
Did you read the plan ?
You read this ?
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u/Bitter_Hunter_31 23h ago
Yes. And while it's relying on a mirroring of the tariffs from Trumps 1st term, the conclusions it makes that would have a positive, non-inflationary impact on the economy, rely heavily on 100% achievement of their assumptions. With all of the Federal programs that have been already cut that helped alleviate the 1st term tariffs, we know this can no longer be achieved.
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
You’re suggesting that trump himself cut the federal programs that he would’ve needed in order for his tariff plan to work ?
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u/Boozeburger 23h ago
Jean-Paul Sartre said it best.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
https://youtu.be/5fJyNoDUUIk?si=XT4oJSi1jd1fdzN7 Watch Nancy pelosi say it herself
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u/Boozeburger 23h ago
You don't understand the above comment. Perhaps you should learn some history.
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
So you’re not suggesting that I’m an antisemite ?
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u/Boozeburger 22h ago
I'll let someone else explain it to you.
As you can tell, Sartre was not a fan of anti-Semites. He believed anti-Semites were acting in bad faith to maintain their irrational beliefs. He believed anti-Semites to be acting out of passion instead of reason. He believed anti-Semites became that way because of a fear of solitariness; a fear of themselves and their insecurities. I have heard all of these critiques before, but they were used to describe the alt-right movement of today. With the anonymity provided by today's digital age it is only easier to act in bad faith, since there are few (if any) consequences and we aren't held completely responsible. It's also easier to find like-minded people and create echo-chambers that reinforce fallacious beliefs. Sartre essentially described the anti-Semite as the historical equivalent of the internet troll, particularly the alt-right.
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
You just posted a quote that is about antisemitism and you’re saying it has nothing to do with antisemitism as far as you’re applying it to me ? And that will be obvious to everyone that sees it ?
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u/FeddyTaley 18h ago
That person isn’t going to respond in good faith. Don’t sweat these jerks, don’t feed the troAs you can tell, Sartre was not a fan of anti-Semites. He believed anti-Semites were acting in bad faith to maintain their irrational beliefs. He believed anti-Semites to be acting out of passion instead of reason. He believed anti-Semites became that way because of a fear of solitariness; a fear of themselves and their insecurities. I have heard all of these critiques before, but they were used to describe the alt-right movement of today. With the anonymity provided by today’s digital age it is only easier to act in bad faith, since there are few (if any) consequences and we aren’t held completely responsible. It’s also easier to find like-minded people and create echo-chambers that reinforce fallacious beliefs. Sartre essentially described the anti-Semite as the historical equivalent of the internet troll, particularly the alt-right.
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u/Boozeburger 22h ago
As you can tell, Sartre was not a fan of anti-Semites. He believed anti-Semites were acting in bad faith to maintain their irrational beliefs. He believed anti-Semites to be acting out of passion instead of reason. He believed anti-Semites became that way because of a fear of solitariness; a fear of themselves and their insecurities. I have heard all of these critiques before, but they were used to describe the alt-right movement of today. With the anonymity provided by today's digital age it is only easier to act in bad faith, since there are few (if any) consequences and we aren't held completely responsible. It's also easier to find like-minded people and create echo-chambers that reinforce fallacious beliefs. Sartre essentially described the anti-Semite as the historical equivalent of the internet troll, particularly the alt-right.
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
Perhaps you’re a bigot and you’re just projecting, as far as I can tell you have no reason to associate me with any type of bigotry yet here we are. I can only assume it’s some sort of obvious projection of your own feelings
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u/Boozeburger 22h ago
As you can tell, Sartre was not a fan of anti-Semites. He believed anti-Semites were acting in bad faith to maintain their irrational beliefs. He believed anti-Semites to be acting out of passion instead of reason. He believed anti-Semites became that way because of a fear of solitariness; a fear of themselves and their insecurities. I have heard all of these critiques before, but they were used to describe the alt-right movement of today. With the anonymity provided by today's digital age it is only easier to act in bad faith, since there are few (if any) consequences and we aren't held completely responsible. It's also easier to find like-minded people and create echo-chambers that reinforce fallacious beliefs. Sartre essentially described the anti-Semite as the historical equivalent of the internet troll, particularly the alt-right.
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u/TheMuffler42069 22h ago
Sure if that’s the perspective you want to have, I don’t disagree that a lot of people are out to deceive. In what way are you suggesting that I’m attempting to deceive or have deceived
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
You’re done addressing the video of Nancy pelosi ? So that would be zero addressing of it. Cool
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
So you’re saying I’m antisemitic because I’m pointing out that progressive talking points have changed ? Wow. I can tell clearly who stands below me on the moral ground
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u/Boozeburger 23h ago
I'm saying it's futile to engage you because you're not serious and don't care about words, truth or reality.
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
Right but you just happened to use a quote about antisemitism to illustrate your wrong opinion. Interesting approach considering how much of that is already going on. Seems kind of obvious
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u/TheMuffler42069 1d ago
You can watch videos of Nancy pelosi being pro tarrifs and pro reshoring and her democrat peers cheering for her. What is obtuse about that ?
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u/Boozeburger 23h ago
Did Pelosi's tarrifs include islands of penguines? Was it a one-size fits the whole world? Can you really not see a difference?
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
There is a certain type of… disingenuousness going on
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u/Boozeburger 23h ago
Really? Where is it coming from?
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u/TheMuffler42069 22h ago
It’s coming directly from the person that lacks a coherent argument and thus has to resort to using quotes about antisemitism which has nothing to do with the topic on hand in order to create a link between what I’m saying and antisemitism where there is none. That is you.
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u/TheMuffler42069 23h ago
You can’t acknowledge reality, you have to view everything through one narrow lens so it’s no wonder why you’re so astonished by everything.
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u/Boozeburger 23h ago
What do you know about reality?
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u/ActualSpiders 22h ago
The entire base question is fundamentally dishonest. The very first sentence is inaccurate, and the rest of it frames leftists in ways that simply aren't true anywhere outside of right-wing propaganda. The numbers used are incorrect & the entire thing is written in a deliberately inflammatory tone.
In short, it's a troll question posed in a very troll manner, by a troll.
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u/TheMuffler42069 22h ago
I get and agree with your point about the tone of it. But what I don’t understand is your first point about the first sentence in the post. In what way is it inaccurate to assert that historically leftists have been pro worker, pro manufacturing in the US and pro tariffs ? There are examples that are easy to find of this being the case
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u/ActualSpiders 21h ago
Because, as others have *repeatedly* pointed out, there's a vast and huge difference between *specific, targeted tariffs* and what Trump has put forth. *Targeted* tariffs have long been used to protect domestic industries and encourage production, but full-spectrum tariffs against entire nations or global industries/products are stunningly dumb. Again, it's a dishonest and deliberately inflammatory framing used by trolls and gaslighters. OP is a jerk.
Perfect example: Canadian lumber. We import a *lot* of it for construction. You can't simply *make more lumber* because you wanna punish Canada - Forests have to be managed & take decades to expand their production. You can't just jack up tree harvesting this year if you want to have *any* trees for the next decade. Trump's too stupid to understand that, and so are the people supporting this idiocy. You also can't wave a magic wand and create massive factories in the US to replace foreign production - they take years to build, and more importantly we don't have workers with the skills to staff them at the salaries they'd have to pay.
Trump promised DAY ONE price drops and inflation improvements, but what he's set up now is impossible to achieve in less than 5-10 years minimum, and a lot of what these tariffs require literally is not possible in the US economy at all anymore. It's not obvious to the regular person on the street, but to anyone who's studied literally *any* economics whatsoever, Trump's completely destroying our economy, for generations to come. And that's not an exaggeration - the rest of the world will never trust an American administration, trade deal, or contact again because of this asshole.
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u/TheMuffler42069 21h ago
So, just first off, I notice similar tone issues with what you’re saying so I would say that if you’re going to criticize someone or a group of being a certain way it would be wise to refrain from that type of behavior yourself otherwise people will believe that you’re a dishonest and hypocritical person. It’s easier to write someone off when they’re engaging in the behavior they’re calling someone else out for. Second, you make a lot of good points, obviously. I don’t disagree with much of your reasoning. One thing I will push back on is the idea that other countries will no longer trust the United States. I don’t think there is any shortage of reasons already existing for other countries to not trust the United States. The United States has many other ways to engage in negotiations globally. There are many other global services the United States provides that as you point out cannot just be replaced quickly. I doubt very much that the rest of the wester world wants the US navy to just stop protecting international shipping. I believe much of the world relies on financial services that only exist in the United States. I don’t think that the global community can survive without the US so trust moving forward doesn’t seem like a huge concern to me. It’s not ideal, I don’t like it, but I don’t think it’s possible for the world to turn its back on the US
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u/ActualSpiders 19h ago
So, just first off, I notice similar tone issues with what you’re saying
If pointing out that someone is a troll is what you think is trolling, we can't have a productive conversation. OP is a troll; if you can't deal with that being called out, the internet may not be for you.
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u/TheMuffler42069 18h ago
I think you know that’s not what I’m talking about but you’re choosing to pretend that it is
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u/LuckyNumbrKevin 19h ago
It means he's big dumb, just like anyone else who voted for this and is currently spouting off whatever nonsense they can think of to justify these tarrifs; keeping the "this is actually a good thing. I'm not fucked, I was not conned, and I'm no fool!" denial rolling a bit longer.
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u/SeattleAlex 1d ago
Because whatever trump is doing is never for the good of society, only what makes him money or pumps his narcissistic ego. He's been a con man since the 80's, and the only people who think he's great have been grifted, badly.
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u/KnocheDoor 1d ago
Mind if I embellish a bit? He is a con man who was bailed out of bankruptcy in the 89’s by Russian oligarchs. Now he is a puppet using his con man skills to defraud the US on behalf of his owners.
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u/TrueMajor3651 1d ago
Tariffs are good on products that have a competitive domestic alternative. And when its done selectively to not have economy wide effects. Blanket tariffs on every country in the world is not good for anybody.
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u/FenisDembo82 1d ago
Even if one is in favor of tariffs, it would be nice to have a coherent, targeted strategy that wasn't based on a fictional economist in a book randomly picked up on Amazon.
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u/Monalfee 1d ago
Can you quote these people who supported tariffs? Because we can probably analyze the difference from there.
For example, I'm not against all tariffs. I'm against tariffs that are either blanket sized or don't actually support an industry we'll remake well here.
So and easy explanation is Trump's manner of tariffing is bad.
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u/Special_Luck7537 1d ago
Offshoring to China took 10 yrs to get going. Trump's tariff will hit the US much earlier than that, and consumers will need to live with a 50% increase in damn near everything, for a long time.... Shades of 1929...
Now, as a businessman that is facing 50% tariffs that may change any minute, would you spend billions to relocate to the US on the chance that it will make your goods cheaper, despite the higher wage that the US needs? There are companies already that are looking to move to lower tariffed countries, not the US...
This will crush the working class of the US. .
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u/AltForObvious1177 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is an issue where both sides need more nuance. Tariffs can be good if carefully applied and supported by investment in development. Tariffs are bad when they'll thrown together from a bunch of nonsense numbers and no development support.
The biggest problem with the Trump tariffs are uncertainty. They're random without warning or justification. No one knows if they're permanent or temporary.
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u/dude_abides_here 1d ago
I think “leftists” (whatever that is) are strongly in favor of restoring high-paying manufacturing jobs to this countries GDP but argue that tariffs are an incredibly poor and blunt tool to do this. The argument from the left is that corporate tax breaks that make it profitable for American corporations to use cheap overseas labor for goods sold here are the problem and it is these corporate tax breaks that should be targeted to help the overall economy. Tariffs simply raise prices on all goods which are felt significantly more by the poor.
This is called a regressive tax. Think of it like this: you and Elon musk typically use the same amount of toilet paper in a given year (unless one of you doesn’t wipe your ass after you shit). Because you have less wealth than him, the proportion of your income that you pay sales tax on this toilet paper is higher that what musk pays relative to his overall income.
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u/AncientCrust 1d ago
Damn, this thread is rich in bots. It's like a roach infestation.
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u/Qualmest73 23h ago
You must just have TDS and orange man bad! /s just kidding I have a brain and am not a BOT, and understand the applied tariffs are economical disastrous.
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u/BeneficialGrade7961 1d ago
Tariffs are import taxes. The importer pays a 50% surcharge to the US government when it lands in the country. This cost is then passed on to the consumer. In order to move manufacturing to the US they would need to build big expensive plants and their costs to produce the product would be greatly increased. They will need to pay much more for materials, undoubtedly in most cases some items will need to be imported (with tariffs applied by the US government) and labour costs will be much higher. They have to sell the product for at least 150% the price when they were selling the same item made in China just in order to cover their increased production costs, so it is a pointless endeavour to move at all. They will just continue as they are and let the US consumers pay the cost inclusive of tariffs if they want the product.
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u/joshine89 1d ago
i honestly dont think you know how tarrfis work and the trickle down affect of them... but also the hypocrisy of it all. DT runs on affordability then within 100 days of coming into office jacks up the prices on foreign made good by 10%-60% depending where the good is from. over the long term tarrifs could have the desired affect, but you need to prepare the country, put in place the frame work and infrastructure for more plants coming back. issue is that none of that framework is in place, buildings/factories dont go up in a matter of days, for that type of investment it would take years before any plant is actually open. the problem is simply capitalism, consumers want a lower price, stock holders want sales, so businesses outsource for the lowest price. in addition to those issues are those factory jobs "good" jobs... in that are they well paying jobs? like its cool when amazon puts up a distribution center near you, and it creates a shit ton of jobs, but are they low paying jobs? or well paying jobs? if they are low paying it doesnt exactly inject the local economy with a ton of cash, if it is high paying jobs, well the cost of the good will go up.
if there was some type of forethought or planning or wanting to work with other countries and neighbors that is one thing but putting tarrifs on a wide sweeping products like trump is doing isnt exactly "orange man bad" it just sheer stupidity and a ignorant view of the economy.
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u/totally-hoomon 1d ago
So far all I've gotten from this question is conservatives just repeat what they are told to say sense they all answered the same exact thing
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u/redjar66 1d ago
Targeted tariffs can be a useful tool. And there’s nothing wrong with govt promoting and even subsidizing moving manufacturing to the US. This is just more buffoonery policy with no thought.
These tariffs are a regressive tax policy that will hurt poor and middle working class hardest.
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u/CriticalConclusion44 1d ago
Because this is not how you use tariffs. Period.
Tariffs are a tool to protect "burgeoning businesses." Meaning, you invest in a segment, grow it, then protect it from foreign competition using tariffs until it can compete without them.
This is, frankly, how an idiot uses tariffs. This is inflationary. It's a tax on the American people. It's ignorant at best, and malicious at worst. No one with 2 brain cells should support this use of tariffs. It benefits no one, and hurts everyone, with no goal.
It's completely idiotic.
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u/Drayenn 1d ago
Strategic tariffs to protect certain industries can be good. For example, Canada uses a mix of quotas and tariffs on US dairy because without them, our dairy industry would get decimated. We dont want our dairy industry to be 100% american.
But imposing a blanket tariff on everything? Hello massive inflation. Youll never be able to make up locally what you buy elsewhere. You dont have hordes of unemployed people ready to fill these jobs. You also need multiple years, like 10-20+ for some industries, to pick up the slack.
And the day democrats win and revert everything, any american investment is fucked. If i was an american investor for a new industry that can grow locally due to tatiffs.. im not sold on the investment since it might flip tomorrow and become non competitive.
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u/XRuecian 1d ago edited 1d ago
The average Tariff rate for imports for countries is around 2%.
The overwhelming majority of countries have an average import tariff on US goods of around 2%, most of them between less than 1% and 3%.
If our goal was to incentivize more in-house production and less outsourcing, it would have only taken very small tariff increases to do so. Even a 1-2% increase of tariffs on specific goods could have a pretty massive impact on the trade economy.
The idea of 10% or god forbid 20, 30, 40% tariffs is absolutely unreal and serves literally no purpose but to put our economy into a hole and isolate us entirely from any good trade and leave us stranded and starving for the goods we need.
What leftists want is more regulation on lobbying so that legislation comes out more fair for consumers and workers instead of leaning so heavily in favor of corporations.
These tariffs are not targeting specific industries that could benefit from increased tariffs. They are BLANKET tariffs that are simply going to increase the prices on all goods, regardless if we are even capable of producing them at home or not.
We cannot just grow tropical fruit in America. We have to import it.
We cannot just mine every mineral we want in America. We have to buy what we need from others.
We cannot just make every material we need in America. We only have so many workers, and we would rather those workers be put to more valuable jobs than mining out coal and raw iron, which are low value jobs in the industry chain.
These tariffs are ludicrous and stupid and serve no useful purpose, and anyone who has even two brain cells should be able to do even a smidge of critical thinking to see how bad it is.
Should we just start making rice farms and pineapple groves and banana groves and dozens of other foods to make up for the fact that we have to pay 20-30% more to import them now for no reason? Oh wait, we can't. Those crops don't grow here.
Should we take millions of people off of our high-value service jobs and put them to work in the mines so that we can produce more of our own raw iron and steel or other raw materials, even though these jobs are less valuable for the workers and our GDP?
Stop being a useful idiot and use your brain for once.
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u/mark0179 1d ago
Tariffs should be used as a tool to level the playing field to protect manufacturing in the country issuing the tariffs . Tariffs for the most part are used to protect specific products for example steel Aluminum bananas automobiles. These new tariffs are across the board for all imported goods . Some items have or will be excluded . Tariffs have not been used to compensate for trade imbalances like these seem to be . If the goal is to bring manufacturing back to the US you would generally have a plan in place to bolster the production of whatever product you are specifically targeting with the tariffs. This doesn’t seem to be the case with these tariffs. I work in manufacturing and have been against NAFTA Bill Clinton signed into law and USMCA that Trump signed into law in his first term . These tarrifs have no plan to help US production of any of the items that they will raise the price on . The cost will be passed on to the consumer and the greedy corporations will add a little more to shore up profits . So these tariffs are bad for everyone on the planet!Except Russia of course!
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u/Killerkurto 1d ago
If you read this guys profile, he likes tariffs because…. So many people oppose them.
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u/nostaticzone 19h ago
ooo someone didn’t read the post, only the title!
I bet you do that A LOT! especially with newspaper articles and headlines
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u/Killerkurto 9h ago
I guess this cultist doesn’t remember writing this- https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/s/pDcmW4gOxJ
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u/steinerific 1d ago
God, there are so many responses to this. Companies are not going to restore jobs because of these tariffs. Trump is mercurial and has the attention span of an eight year old off his Ritalin. No company is going to invest billions in on shore factories in a sinking economy because nobody with two licks of sense will believe these tariffs will be around in 6 months, let alone 4 years. Reports are the none of Trump’s aides knew what the tariff policy was going to be 3 HOURS before they were announced. Investing based on this would be foolish.
Second tariffs targeted to specific products or industries can be effective industrial policy when combined with incentives, tax breaks, etc. None of that is happening. Blanket tariffs on entire countries is idiocy. Like US farmers are going to ramp up avocado production overnight. Like we are going to delink the automotive supply chain overnight.
Third, the US has engaged in tariff-based trade wars in the past, perhaps 5 times dating back to the 1830s. It always ends poorly. There is no winning a trade war.
Fourth, the constructive industrial policy of the Biden administration was working. Investment and employment in the manufacturing sector was increasing. That’s been pissed away precisely because it was Biden’s policy, pretty much what you are accusing (without merit) these people you dub ‘leftists’ of doing.
The effects of the tariffs are so obvious that anyone with half a brain can see them. Inflation will rise. GDP will shrink, employment will shrink the markets will keep dropping. A recession is inevitable. The first one in history intentionally caused by a president supremely ignorant of economics and history.
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u/LeftInRight61 23h ago
So what you're saying is, Americans just need to wait until the American-produced Nintendo Switch 2?
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u/PHILSTORMBORN 23h ago
If tariffs are in place long enough to change business behaviour then they will be reciprocated. What that does is create isolated economies. A country will make more for itself and less for export. That doesn't really effect a trade deficit. If a 20% tariff stops people buying imported goods then it also stops foreign people buying the goods you export. Trade balance doesn't change much but everything just gets more expensive for everyone.
Where I have thought a tariff would be a good thing is if it addressed a regressive trade policy from a foreign country. For instance China is known to dump steel at a loss. So, for me, a tariff on Chinese steel creates a fairer market place for domestic steel. Even that is complicated because how does if effect domestic manufacturers who use cheap imported steel? But what we have now is a tariff on everything.
The truth is there is no way any domestic economy can make up for imported goods in any short time. Even if domestic workers were happy doing low paid jobs it takes time to set up the supply chains and build the factories. At the moment an entire supply chain is disrupted. You can't just create a solar panel factory. You have to have a domestic producer of every component. Each component manufacturer facing the same difficulty.
I'd flip your question around. When did conservatives not want free trade?
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u/Drgnmstr97 23h ago
Tariffs do not work as you have described. This makes me wonder to what purpose you have created this post. You went to the trouble of creating this post to describe how tariffs work and you’re not even in the neighborhood.
It’s not just leftists that oppose tariffs because they won’t do what Trump claims they will do, which is not a surprise to anyone really because everyone knows that 80% of what comes out of his mouth is lies and only half of that is intentional because he can’t help the diarrhea of lies that flow out of his mouth.
When someone puts something like this out there and doesn’t do their due diligence to put forth accurate information it makes me question why.
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u/Qualmest73 23h ago
Just going to comment starting here: ,”If a tariff is put ina Chinese’s product a company that manufactures isn’t going to raise prices 50%” this is correct they are not going to raise the price the importer and the consumer will pay 50% more. And this is incorrect as well “So what they do is manufacture in the US for “a few bucks” except the It cost them more to manufacture, and if they still have to import materials it even increase the cost even higher, so why would they invest manufacturing to increase the cost of their good. so guess what instead of you paying 50% to the government to import, you are still paying 25 -50% so they can keep the same profit margin as now the cost to produce is higher. To answer your question, no one is opposed to tariffs or pro-offshoring, the problem is this will have the opposite effect, and increase cost on everyday Americans. Target Tariffs should be applied to support a sector that is being overwhelmed by imports therefore becoming unsustainable. Blanket tariffs on everything just increase cost of all imported finished goods and material that the consumer/importer pays. As for offshoring, you now run the risk of losing manufacturing in the US, why? Let me explain, if there is a 50% tariff and you assemble your car and. Ow all you imported supply’s for said car cost 50% more, the company is now spending 50% to make that car, where if they move it over seas, they can spend the same on materials and possibly less to have it assembled and just import the finished good, their cost to make the car is reduced in fact the may be able to lower the cost of their vehicle where now you are only paying 30-40% more the before. See how that works?
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u/Apprehensive-Mark241 21h ago
Why do Агентство интернет-исследований trolls only get 12000 руб. per month?
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u/WhatsMyUsername13 17h ago
This has to be the worst bastardization of what a right winger think left wingers think. This is not asked in good faith, and if you really want an answer....it's easy to disprove why your assertions are false, idiotic, and at the end of the day, not asked in good faith.
If I'm wrong, let's have a discussion. But somehow, I think your understanding of "leftist" is what fox new tells you to think about Democrats.
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u/TheMightyTRex 5h ago
deliberately tanking the us economy is bad. lots of jobs lost. so that might be a reason
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u/Educational-Twist-11 1d ago
I actually know left wingers that are loving all of this. They love that the stock market is crashing. You may be conflating liberals, who are not happy with a market crash, with leftists (dem socialists and communists).
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u/OneToeTooMany 1d ago
They hate absolutely anything Trump does, it's irrelevant if they would have supported it in the past.
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u/-fumble- 1d ago
Because "Orange Man Bad" is about as much as their tiny little minds can handle.
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u/Salt_Specialist_3206 1d ago
More like ‘How can we trust this pathological liar to do things ethically or at all?’
Still waiting for daylight savings to be canceled and pennies taken out of production. I’m fine with both of those things.
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u/Brosenheim 1d ago
That's a cope you cling to because you can't argue against what we actually say. you're going to prove my point by evading what I just said and trying to either pivot or shut me up.
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u/Exact-Kale3070 1d ago
well planned and discrete tariffs can be a great thing. idiotic tariffs against our allies, while breaking the agreements TRUMP NEGOTIATED AND SIGNED HIMSELF, make us weak. the dollar will be replaced as the standard currency.
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u/Brosenheim 1d ago
And this is the EXACT stance that all this "haha TDS haha against all tariffs" shit is meant to try and erase.
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u/Right_Sector180 1d ago
No, my concern is the lack of a strategic approach to tarrifs. If it was focused on reshoring certain industries (and a real plan for doing it) that would be one thing. Also, I am concerned about the lack of a clear goal. Is it reshoring or is it revenue, for example?
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u/Special_Luck7537 1d ago
Here buttercup, try this one. US deficit means that the country needs money to pay debt. The guy that is TRYING TO do this, owned a business named Tesla
Tesla made $2.3B dollars NET PROFIT in 2024 AND PAID NO TAXES....
Musk eliminated 10k jobs in the fed, assuming 17% tax rate on another assumed $60k/year for those people means that they paid $102M in taxes total to the govt for their jobs.
If Musk would have PAID TAXES, he would have paid $406M in corp tax @ 20%, Trump's rate . If he paid at the highest rate of corp taxes in history, 1968-1969, he would have paid $1.2B ... Not Zero .. Trump also paid ZERO TAXES on his businesses.
The US should have received $102B + $406B , or HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS TO PAY AGAINST THE Deficit...
AND THAT IS FROM ONE CORP.
DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM? Giving corps tax break does not come close to matching the money from taxes that the Fed would get taxing corps .
Now, I'll bet your 'little brain' doesn't understand any of this, and that's why it's a GOP PROBLEM.
Enjoy your depression .
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u/-fumble- 23h ago
You clearly have no idea whatsoever how corporate taxes work. Moron.
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u/Special_Luck7537 23h ago
Hahaha, tell me.
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u/-fumble- 23h ago
Corporations have revenue and expenses. If revenue-expenses= 0, no taxes are owed. If the company makes a profit (revenue exceeds expenses), you distribute that profit to shareholders or owners who pay taxes (which still means revenue-expenses=0). Corporations only pay taxes directly if they don't distribute profits (in which case, they are double taxed, so of course they wouldn't choose to do that).
All corporations pay taxes on their profits, but those taxes are paid by the people who actually take home those profits. When you say a corporation that made a profit didn't pay any taxes, you're either an idiot who doesn't understand what you're talking about, or you're being disingenuous for political gain by tricking people who don't understand how the system works.
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u/Maturemanforu 1d ago
Because orange man suggested it. Just ignore that Pelosi, Bernie and others are on the record advocating for the same tariffs.
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u/LackWooden392 1d ago
No one on the history of the world has ever advocated for blanket 10%+ tariffs on all imports from every country. That is truly insane and if you can't see the difference between that and strategically targeted tariffs on a few specific things, I dunno what to tell you.
It's like if you asked me to turn the thermostat up and I put the heat on 100 degrees and then I say 'why are you complaining? You said to turn it up.'
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u/Exact-Kale3070 1d ago
well designed tariffs can be a great thing. idiotic tariffs on our allies, breaking the agreements TRUMP NEGOTIATED AND SIGNED HIMSELF, make us weak. the dollar will be replaced as the standard currency.
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u/raybanshee 1d ago
Because their only guiding principle is their hatred for Trump. Everything else is secondary at this point.
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u/Exact-Kale3070 1d ago
look at what the tariffs did to the stock market. look at what economists are saying about a recession/depression. people who are neutral to trump are pisssssed. tariff must be applied with a clear cut path to success and balance. trump used ai to calculate the posted tariffs based on an inappropriate calculation, because he doesn't actually understand trade deficits and tariffs. this has turned the whole world against, except the bad guys he didn't tariff like russia who we STILL trade with...wake the fuck up.
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u/raybanshee 1d ago
The stock market is the #1 driver of wealth inequality. It's why Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are so fucking rich.
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u/HapticSloughton 22h ago
Cool, so destroy it suddenly and without warning, and that'll make everything better somehow? Why did no one think of this before, especially an orange-skinned rich guy?
Please tell me you don't think Trump cares about you.
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u/raybanshee 22h ago
If you believe in the stock market, than you accept the ups and downs. And if you think the big guys didn't see this coming and didn't make billions on the sell-off, I got a bridge to sell you.
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u/Born-Cod4210 1d ago
How are you supposed to support something that there was no obvious thought behind it? A high school econ class could have done a better job
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u/raybanshee 1d ago
Suddenly, every Democrat is a huge fan of free market capitalism.
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u/Born-Cod4210 1d ago
no most democrats support targeted tariffs. Not making up some numbers and putting tariffs on it. lol he put a tariff on a U.S. military base!! what a idiot
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u/DataCassette 1d ago
"I like pizza"
pries open your mouth and shoves 17 extra large pizzas into it violently until you vomit and have to go to the hospital
"i ThoUghT u LeIk PiZZa lOl IdIoT"