r/AutisticPeeps • u/Murky-South9706 ASD • 2d ago
Question Um, don't take this the wrong way.
Is it just me or is the online autism community becoming more and more absorbed by the trans community?
Before anyone tries to say it, NO I don't have a problem with trans people.
But lately it seems like autism and trans are being considered as one and the same in many communities. I'm not trans and this doesn't represent me, so it does alienate me from a community that I can't really relate to.
Is this just something I'm seeing? Maybe my feeds are coincidentally showing a disproportionate amount of things that associate the two? Or is this a trend?
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u/HelloImAutism ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
Yes, I noticed it seems like autism spaces are always talking about LGQBT+ problems now instead of autistic problems.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
That's what I'm seeing a lot too. I'm scared to say anything about it because I'm afraid I'll get attacked and banned
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u/MienaLovesCats 2d ago
My ASD daughter 20 and ASD son 16 have been complaining about that. They are straight Christians and sadly get bullied
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u/hostilegoose Autism and Depression 2d ago
To be quite honest this probably has more to do with the context that you shared in another comment that you brought up negative stereotypes and hyperboles about yourself. Kids make fun of each other for a lot of things already and it doesn’t help very much if they have an interest in a stigmatized hobby - like being a furry.
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u/NotJustSomeMate Autistic and ADHD 1d ago
I admittedly irrationally hate furry people...they weird me out...but i just ignore/block them when i encounter them in online spaces...
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u/babypossumsinabasket 2d ago
Yeah. I see a lot of discussion about gender and sexuality that’s conflated with autism and it really irritates me. Those two things are not related to autism and I’m just sick in general of autism acting like Velcro that picks up a whole bunch of other stuff as it rolls through the morass of pop psychology on the internet.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
"neurodiversity" I think is our culprit
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u/sharkattax5 ASD 2d ago
yes exactly! im a gay man who so happens to have autism, and so many people imply that i am gay because i am autistic. it feels like they are calling my sexuality a disability by kind of saying that, or ignoring how being gay is a natural thing that just happens without a cause.
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u/Adventurous-Web-7970 2d ago
No one likes to admit it, but some people love collecting labels, even genders.
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u/Automatic-Act-1 Asperger’s 2d ago
This sentence always makes an impression on me because I do love collecting labels, numbers and classifications (eg for plants and stars, and if there’s something up with me or someone I know I need a name and a classification for it), I think there’s nothing wrong with them per se.
However, it is wrong when these labels assume a connotation of identity for things that are hardly classifiable like human beings.
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u/Firm-Stranger-9283 Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
I fully understand you, it's so annoying to me. I find it also kinda goes hand in hand with now assuming you're lgbt/extremely liberal when you say you're autistic. one stereotype to another.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
YES!
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u/Firm-Stranger-9283 Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
im cishet and idk im just so tired of it and ngl the autigender thing too, it reeks of self diagnosis
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
What is cishet?
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u/Firm-Stranger-9283 Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
I identify as my gender at birth + I like men as a woman.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
So you're a straight woman? That's what cishet means?
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u/Firm-Stranger-9283 Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
yep, basically
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Oh, okay!
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u/ButSheDid Level 1 Autistic 2d ago
Cis means not transgender, het (heterosexual) means straight, so cishet = not LGBT
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago edited 2d ago
Wouldn't you just identify yourself as trans or not heterosexual, since straight and heterosexual are the norm and people just assume the norm is the case unless it's obviously not? White ravens exist but when people say raven they're talking about black ravens, and when they mean white ravens they say white raven. This is what we do with everything else
Edit: Why the fuck did I get down voted it was a serious question. Excuse me for not knowing about this stuff Jesus fucking christ
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u/Guerilla_Physicist Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
Yes. It makes things difficult when you live somewhere like, say, Alabama. I’m not one of those people that advertises my diagnosis, but it does feel like disclosing is riskier because of the stereotypes.
That’s not to say that it’s the fault of LBGT folks. People down here can just be kind of shitty sometimes.
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u/Formal-Experience163 2d ago
The thing is that the phenomenon of self-diagnosing autism works like a pyramid scheme. It requires certain niches to function. Self-diagnosis is very popular among women and the LGBT population. That doesn’t mean that the pro-self-dx neurodiversity movement is feminist and trans-inclusive. It’s the other way around.
Autism has no sexual orientation or identity. But it is concerning how figures like Devon Price rely on certain political minorities to become famous.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
That's a good point. There is also a possibility that many of the claims of trans being more common in autistic people might be skewed due to an over representation in studies because there is a correlation between "high functioning autistic" people and the neurodiversity thing, which is part of this new liberal identity stuff, and people with LSN and self dxers are often the bulk of the people in autism studies. (This is a hypothesis. I base this on no direct evidence.)
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u/Real-Expression-1222 2d ago
Honestly I’m against self diagnosis but sometimes it feels like some of you are using it to alienate LSN queer people and woman, even if you don’t realize it.
I see queer LSN/msn women and queer people online get attacked even if they’re diagnosed. Self diagnosis shouldn’t be associated with a gender or identity
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u/Scruffeyis 2d ago
Yeah, I agree with you here. I don't know if it's an American thing or not, but whilst I disagree with self-diagnosis from a holistic viewpoint, it's damaging to those who are diagnosed; the views on this /r do sometimes seem to be verging on the obsessive.
Whilst I understand the annoyance, trans people are being brutalised right now. I get it bad enough as a gay man. My fiance and I have been verbally and physically attacked numerous times for the crime of holding hands, but it pales in comparison to my trans friends, and I'm not sure they need another group attacking them. You can say till you are blue in the face, "I have nothing against them but..." but that is how my community are frequently attacked: "Oh, I'm not against gay people, but could they just not do things in front of me?". I am based in Terf Island (The UK), and ostracising them is becoming more and more normal. I have not noticed what you are referring to among UK autism communities; it seems to be a US problem, if it is one at all.
It also is an area that requires more study, but on an assessment of what we know, it does have some promise that the rate of LGBT among autistic people may be higher; we struggle with social rules and restrictions, and thus, it COULD be more prevalent. Not because autism makes us more likely to be, more that autism makes us less likely to hide it than those "normal" folks
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u/cranonymous28 ASD 1d ago
Thank you for saying this. A lot of this is becoming homo/transphobic imo.
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u/tuxpuzzle40 Autistic and ADHD 1d ago
For me the viewpoint of self diagnosis requires one to look at Autism as an identity like sexual or gender identity has taken to in the recent decades.
The problem in doing so is it could be debated if one can choose their identity or aspects of their identity. I happen to be on side of one chooses many of not most aspects of their identity. Mostly because I separate identify and characteristics.
I get where Devon Price is coming from. I just fundamentally disagree that Autism is a chosen aspect of my life. Therefore it is more a characteristic that I cope with. Not an identity.
I am scared if it gains traction that it is an identity not an inherent characteristic. Mostly because of how I have seen the LGBTQ movement play out in politics. Because there are many like me that believe identity is primarily chosen. The consequences is one can just choose not to be that identity.
There is much nuance here related so do not go flaming me or thinking something incorrect. Ask before you go bashing me. I have not made my nuances on my world view known. Just pointing out the dangers of identity languages when it comes to characteristics.
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u/Far_Jacket_6790 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, im growing tired of autism being equated with sex, sexuality gender, superpowers, and all other types of politics.
I understand the issues. I call them issues because some are genuine issues. But, like all those issues listed, I don’t want people to hate me while I struggle because someone politicized autism in a way that serves no purpose other than creating clout inside your own echo chamber and triggering everyone outside of it so you can then taunt the outside of your echo chamber until they turn to hate and you can sell yourself as the victim to their villainy. Once the dust settles, find a new trigger word to start the process over again. Anything to keep that clout.
That cycle and the people using it for their own gain are the problem for everyone. They are not our friend or advocate. LGBT was the last victim, ADHD is the current victim, Autism is the next victim.
I’m just not sure what we can do to stop the cycle. Even if we could get people to quit supporting clout-chasers using real problems for their gain, the controversy sells too well. The opposing side is enough to keep it running. And they already don’t like us.
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u/Vivid_Meringue1310 Autism and Depression 2d ago
Yeah I agree tbh I’m tired of seeing lgbtq+ in like every autistic group these days, I don’t hate them or anything but not all autistic people are gay/bi/trans and I wish autism groups would be just about autism, not anything else
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u/Wordartist1 Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
Just because autistic people often feel alienated doesn’t mean that everyone who feels alienated is autistic. The reasons people feel alienated are legion. I think a lot of young LGBT+ kids may feel alienated because they face discrimination and they may associate those feelings of not fitting in with being autistic.
It’s not because they don’t get the rhythm of social interactions. It’s be because they face discrimination, especially in this political moment, because of the horrible homophobia and transphobia that permeates many communities.
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u/solarpunnk ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago edited 2d ago
I have also noticed a number of people whose primary reason for thinking they are autistic is having trouble fitting in and being frequently misunderstood.
Those things are both very common for autistic people but it seems like sometimes people who lack other traits of it hear that fact and latch onto autism as a reason for their experience of not fitting in w/o considering other possibilities.
I'm both queer and (pro-dx) autistic and growing up I saw my NT queer peers having trouble fitting in, often just as much as my autistic peers did.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Are you saying that some of them may be self dx and just think they're autistic because they've become alienated from the TD communities?
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u/Wordartist1 Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
I think that may be true for many self-diagnosed folks. If they’ve been shut out all their lives from belonging in various communities, they may not know if it’s that they have genuine trouble interpreting social situations or that people have repeatedly rejected and mistreated them because of their identity. It’s why it really matters to have an evaluation and have an expert figure out what’s going on so you get the right kind of guidance and treatment.
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u/wildflowerden 2d ago
I know what you mean. I find it very strange and also bad. It's not bad to be trans or anything, but I don't like associations between autism and anything that's an identity thing. Since autism is already being threatened with being delegitimized as a disability, I don't take too kindly to autism being categorized with being trans or gay or anything else like that.
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u/OverlordSheepie Level 1 Autistic 2d ago
I agree that being trans and autistic aren't the same thing, but being trans isn't just an identity, it's also a medical condition as well (they're born that way, just like having a different sexuality). There probably are biological reasons for being trans along with being gay, we just haven't found it yet.
The trans term has been extremely demedicalized and not all trans people are happy with that.
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u/wildflowerden 2d ago
Dysphoria is a medical condition but being trans isn't.
I have gender dysphoria (a condition) but I'm not trans (an identity) and I'm not transitioning anymore (I detransitioned).
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u/Fearless_pineaplle Moderate to Severe Autism 2d ago
transexualism was the orignal term its a medical term i cam e out 11 years ago im transituonung for secr sevreal years
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 2d ago edited 2d ago
dysphoria is a medical condition, transness isn't, not all dysphoric people identify as trans (hi, hello, me for example) and not all people who identify as trans have dysphoria.
medical transition is also not the only treatment (nor a guaranteed one) for dysphoria, speaking as someone who went through it and is still dysphoric, whose dysphoria has been helped more by shifting how i view the world.
eta: thx someone for replying and then blocking me so i can't even read your reply 👍
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u/wildflowerden 2d ago
I am dysphoric and I'm not trans. I agree with you.
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 1d ago
another one of us! i hope you're doing well ❤️🩹
if i may ask, did you also go through a period where you identified as trans?
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u/wildflowerden 1d ago
I transitioned because I was told that would fix my dysphoria. I have since detransitioned.
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 1d ago
oh, then 'twinsies', lol.... we're in very similar situations
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u/Overall_Future1087 ASD 2d ago
dysphoria is a medical condition, transness isn't, not all dysphoric people identify as trans (hi, hello, me for example) and not all people who identify as trans have dysphoria.
I agree with the first part, but not with the second.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Interesting. I didn't know this stuff, personally. I looked it up and what you say is corroborated by Google ai
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 2d ago
i'm happy to explain more if you're curious, i've been dysphoric about my sex pretty much since puberty hitting (like 11 yo), identified as trans for ~6 yrs, medically transitioned from 17-19, am detransitioned now :) still dysphoric but not as bad as it used to be
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
I learned everything I needed to know from my Google searches. What you said adds more context to your perspective, though.
I have not experienced this, myself. But I think maybe the two could still be considered the same thing, though. Hear me out:
Gender dysphoria is the distress one experiences over the incongruence between their sex and their perceived gender (or lack thereof). Transgender is perceived gender difference vs sex. If one didn't have any distress, then would they even perceive their gender as different from their sex, or would they merely be indifferent to their perceived gender?
This seems like a perfectly consistent line of reasoning, to me. What do you think? As someone who has experienced this, can you offer insight on this?
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 2d ago
this conversation is a bit difficult to have without defining gender; which definition would you like me to base my answer on? i ask because it's used both as a 1:1 euphemism for biological sex for some people uncomfortable with the word 'sex', and to refer to the socially constructed characteristics imposed on people based on their sex (or perceived sex). and depending on which you mean, my answer would be different.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Gender ≠ sex though, gender is feminine vs masculine, sex is male vs female
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 2d ago edited 2d ago
i agree they're different, but gender has historically been used as a euphemism for biological sex, not the social construct attached to it. that's why i ask which definition you mean. people also define it differently even with those 2 meanings T_T
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 1d ago edited 1d ago
ive spent a lot of time in different kinds of trans circles so... yea.. also, i have now said some of this in another comment too, but i have included it here as well to be as clear and provide as much context as possible. (removed first sentence as i'm not replying to the other comment)
Gender dysphoria is the distress one experiences over the incongruence between their sex and their perceived gender (or lack thereof). Transgender is perceived gender difference vs sex. If one didn't have any distress, then would they even perceive their gender as different from their sex, or would they merely be indifferent to their perceived gender?
honestly a little hard to answer, lol. it would depend on if that person identifies as trans. what i can tell you for sure is that generally, and according to law in some places, you only need to identify as a gender other than the one assigned to your sex to be considered transgender/a different gender legally, or to access 'gender-affirming healthcare'. there are people that identify as trans, that medically transition, and openly express being non-dysphoric.
many people could be considered technically agender or nonbinary, because the socially constructed characteristics for males and females are rather limiting, and plenty of men and women don't identify with masculinity or femininity. the traits we call "masculine" and "feminine" are really just human traits that people of either sex can have, and people can obviously be very uncomfortable with the confines of their "gender" without actually being uncomfortable with their sexed bodies. this especially goes for autistic people, since these are social constructs and we have social deficits, these rules often don't make sense to us.
personal background/context: part of why i detransitioned is that i experienced immense surgical regret (i do regret testosterone too, but not as intensely), but i was so sure it would help, that i wouldn't ever regret it, that i would be happier; so why was i spending hours obsessively ruminating on how to undo it, and contemplating hurting myself or ending my life because of it? i became uncomfortable with finally, actually passing as male as i went through the changes from testosterone, and started experiencing androgenic alopecia, or male pattern balding, when i was 19. i started questioning the logistics of things, and couldn't find or come up with satisfying answers to those questions (like: if gender and sex are different, why is the promoted treatment for gender dysphoria altering one's sex characteristics? is this whole thing not just reinforcing gender, even though it's restrictive and hurts us?). and finally accepted some things about my sexuality (that i'm only attracted to people of the same sex as i am). now, i still feel discomfort over being female, but less than when i was younger, i attribute that to disregarding notions of gender and working hard over months (i think it's actually years now) on accepting myself as i am. because as much as i would love reconstructive surgery, to have a female sounding voice again, i do not want to subject myself to more surgery if not absolutely medically necessary, i would rather learn to accept my body and myself as i am now and wait for there to be better options for detransitioners, because the current options are not things i will do to myself (implants, flap surgery, fat transfer, vocal training).
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u/Dungeon_Master_Lucky 2d ago
I mean no offence but if you went through medical transition and it didn't help, then how is sex dysphoria accurate? Also the fact you could change it just by "shifting views" implies something very different from mine and every other trans person I know or have heard from.
I feel like if there was effective alternative treatments and different views we'd just do that? If that works on you, you were cisgender in the first place surely, ruling out gender incongruence and gender dysphoria.
Also dysphoria without a "goal/mismatch"(for want of a better word)is just insecurity/self hatred. So if you're cisgender where is the gender dysphoria leaning towards??
No hate just hellllaaa confused
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 1d ago
i appreciate the clarification that you're just confused, i'm sorry if i sound angry through my comment, this (medical transition, going through transness) has had a heavy and permanent impact on my life, has hurt me a lot, so i feel strongly about it. and this comment is already long, but if you're curious about anything more personal than what i describe in it, i'm okay talking about this in DMs, just rather not in public comments because it's, well, personal.
sex dysphoria is accurate because i still feel discomfort with being female sometimes. medical transition may have helped a little, but it made me more miserable in other ways that far outweigh whatever amount it did help. "shifting views" was the short way of explaining, and it was not easy or quick lol, like i said, i'm still dysphoric. the views i shifted are those surrounding the meanings of woman and man, i let go of ideas about "feeling like" a woman, man, or nonbinary, and about "gender" being anything real or having a biological basis. this has helped me feel dysphoria less often than transition did.
i think you're heavily underestimating the greed of the cosmetic surgery & healthcare industry in general. also, the history/roots of medical transition are in "curing" homosexuality, and to this day a disproportionate amount of people attracted to the same sex identify as trans or go through medical transition, like me. also disproportionately includes autistic people. it is still preferable to society for gender nonconforming people, especially bi and homosexual ones, to just be seen as a heterosexual, gender conforming member of the opposite sex, than a bi/homosexual gnc member of their sex. in iran, for example, homosexuality is illegal, with homosexual sex being punishable by death but medical transition is not, and there is a well documented practice of the government pressuring homosexual people into medical transition so they will appear as a heterosexual member of the opposite sex. legal "gender recognition" is a thing, medical transition is even funded by the government at least for some.
here's a BBC article about it from 2014. and another, from the economist, from 2019.
i absolutely hate being called cis or transgender, and especially loathe being told i was just cisgender in the first place and/or don't have dysphoria. i still have dysphoria, that transition didn't fix, i still pass as male to strangers because i am very gender nonconforming- i am not feminine, and even before i experienced sex dysphoria, i was uncomfortable with the confines of femininity. "gender", the social construct, is restrictive, and it makes a lot of sense to me why people, especially female people, feel uncomfortable with it.
i'm not cisgender or transgender. i feel dysphoria about my reproductive system and just generally having been born female. transition didn't fix that, and instead caused health problems and made me uncomfortable in new ways. i experienced immense surgical regret and complications that have made me miserable. the degree of regret about both surgery and hormones caused me to spend months in obsessive ruminating spirals, trying to think of how i could literally time travel to undo this, and contemplating ending my life because i hated living in this body, now altered. the rumination spiralling was pre-working on shifting my views and understanding of the world.
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u/Fearless_pineaplle Moderate to Severe Autism 2d ago
transexualism is not a d identity rither either it was hijacked on in 2016 or something bt by malingerers its a medical condition not a sexuality not an identity
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u/Dungeon_Master_Lucky 2d ago
Dysphoria is a medical condition. But if someone decides to transition just for shits and giggles and ends up happy with themselves, good for them. I just hope the dysphoric are prioritised medically- but that's not the fault of the trans people or a reason not to be happy and authentic
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u/FlemFatale Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
I agree. The whole trans community is being de-medicalised, and it seems that the autism community is also suffering from this (self diagnosis), and it seems to be the same people that want to identify as trans and autistic without actual medical proof of either.
It's why I have distanced myself from the trans community, as I see my transness as part of my medical history and nothing more. The same way I see my autism as a medical problem (but more of a life-long thing).
To me, being trans is just something I had to go through in order to still be alive. It doesn't define me the same way autism doesn't define me, and having blue/grey/green eyes doesn't define me.
It feels like a lot of people are quick to jump on things and make it the only thing about them, but humans are far more complicated than that.
I think that a lot of it stems from the rise of social media and not knowing who you are, so jumping on something and running with it until you realise that isn't you. It's just in a far more public way now than it ever used to be.
I'm glad I didn't have the internet as a kid (well, we did, but not to the same degree as kids do now), because I probably would have fucked myself up a whole lot more than I already did.
This is going to make me sound super old (I'm 35), but I think that a lot of it is everyone trying to fit in and putting themselves into a neat little box in order to try and fix something that isn't broken.
Human nature dictates that this doesn't work. People are much more complicated, and everyone is their own person anyway, so they will never fit into the boxes that society wants them to (and never should).
The best thing you can do is to find other people who accept you for you.
It feels like there is less individuality now than there used to be, and those people get shat on by everyone the moment they go against the grain, so just don't go online as much.
The very nature of online communities makes echo chambers where you get ousted the moment you stop agreeing with everything that's said, so end up leaving. That's my experience anyway.
Society is to blame as well. There is so much pressure to conform everywhere nowadays that it's hard to get away from that. There's all the pressure at school, work, and then when you get home from there, you have that stupid brick in your pocket feeding you the same bullshit that everyone else does. That you aren't worth anything unless you are the thing that they are. I am of the opinion that, actually, everyone is worth something to the people who do give a shit and aren't just pushing their opinions onto everyone else. It's standard bullying tactics. Tell someone they need to be something or you won't be friends, and they become that and still can't be friends because the other person has moved onto something else.
It's hard to realise when you are stuck in that cycle, though (I've been there, but managed to get out), and having online access 24/7 only exacerbates this.
Anyway, I got a bit carried away, apologies.
The TLDR is, I agree, society is bullshit and wants to put everyone in boxes. Having 24/7 access to online communities only exacerbates this and makes people want to be part of something, so brute forcing it when they need to just get offline and find people that don't give a fuck about what they are and value them for who they are.
The rise of social media doesn't help as it only alienates people who refuse to be the same as whatever thing they are, which is basic bullying 101 if you ask me.
In general, individuality should be celebrated far more than it is, and social media seems to be doing a good job of trying to kill it, which is sad.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
I agree with everything you said, young man/lady. (I'm 38)
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u/FlemFatale Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
Man. :) I'm glad someone else does! All is not lost, just yet.
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u/crissycakes18 Level 1.5 Autism 2d ago
I know exactly what you mean, there has been a growing trend of people relating autism to LGBTQ experiences, this has made people start to treat autism as more of an identity rather than a complex and serious disorder, this is something im very upset about especially for us who are actually autistic, autism isn’t an identity, its something that takes up all of the space in our life, something that creates barriers for us that other people just don’t experience, many of us and me included see it as a burden because of how impairing and debilitating it is. I think this has to do with the growing popularity of identity labels, these have been already worn out so people are looking for new things to create and turn into identities so now they are going after disorders, this has also started the erasure of awareness for MSN and HSN autistic individuals because the amount of care and support they need directly goes against the ideology these people are trying to create that autism is just a “difference” and an “identity”
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u/tesseracts PDD-NOS 2d ago
I'll preface this comment by saying I fully support trans rights and LGBTQ+ rights.
This is a problem in modern society in general, it's like there's no counterculture any more. The ONLY counterculture is queer culture. If the counterculture isn't queer it will somehow become queer.
I'm bisexual and I used to participate in online LGBT discourse. I intentionally avoid it now. It's way too toxic. There's so much drama and in fighting.
A lot of the autism community has taken clear cues from this discourse. "Neurotypical people don't think they are autistic" is very reminiscent of "cis people don't question their gender" which used to be or maybe still is a talking point. There are people blatantly claiming autism as an identity and comparing it to being gay. ABA is referred to as conversion therapy. There's a culture of toxic behavior like mass blocking, competing to see who is "most autistic" and accusing people of faking which is all very reminiscent of LGBT discourse.
I understand that autistic people are more likely to be queer and there is nothing wrong with this. But the political trappings are exhausting.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
I might get clapped for saying this but I really can't picture autistic people genuinely caring about identity politics to any significant degree. It requires way too much social awareness to even participate in.
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u/Dry-Dragonfruit5216 ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
This comment has joined the dots for many of my frustrations with this issue, but I couldn’t understand how they linked together. Thank you!
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u/Dungeon_Master_Lucky 2d ago
As LGBT who doesn't like queer culture, this is a YOU ISSUE lol. Goth is alive and well. Go outside and look at posters in the city. Plenty of music based, geopolitical, visual arts, graffiti stuff. Stoners??? Punk is highly watered down these days but still exists. Guerilla gardening, Irish language revival.
If the only counterculture you see is queer then you're blind to counterculture
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u/PoignantPoison PDD-NOS 2d ago
Yeah lol maybe in the USA but where I am non LGBT-centered counterculture is doing just fine thank you very much
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u/MiniFirestar Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
not taken the wrong way, i see this too. i am a trans man and autistic. even if the two are connected in some way, how relevant is that in terms of support for each condition?
for my autism, i need a therapist to work with on autistic-related situations as well as supports/accommodations at college. for my transness, i need hormones and surgery. while i do need support for both, they’re not connected in my daily life.
i only see people conflating the 2 when they’re engaging in identity politics, which isn’t helping anyone
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u/eric-710 ASD 2d ago
I really have a hard time embracing my autistic identity because I worry about how we are being portrayed by the so called "autism community" online. The large over-representation of LGBTQ people is just one factor, but living in a very conservative area where that's not accepted is just another bit of stigma I have to worry about.
I have a lot of respect and compassion for LGBTQ individuals, but I really take issue with the way their plight has been interlaced with that of the "autism community" over the years. My primary objective in life is (and has always been) to be as "normal" as possible, blend in with my surroundings, and be better understood by the people in my life. I am very much not interested in having extra strings attached to the autism label.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
That's very insightful and I share your sentiments. I don't live in a very conservative area, but I absolutely agree with the other stuff you said.
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u/Guerilla_Physicist Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
I have felt the same way. I’m a public school teacher in Alabama so I really have to be careful with the image that I present, lest I be accused of being a “groomer” or trying to indoctrinate children.
In a way, it has kind of encouraged me to be a little bit open about my diagnosis because I want my students and my colleagues to see that there ARE autistic adults out there who don’t fit the mold of the internet “autism community.” I think it’s especially important for my autistic students to see that because navigating high school with autism is hard enough. Having stereotypes and assumptions piled into that makes it even harder.
I’m lucky to have a supportive work environment. A lot of folks aren’t.
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u/Dry-Dragonfruit5216 ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
Yeah I agree. It seems like if you are trans then you have autism, which then creates a stigma around autism. I’m not trans and tbh I don’t really understand it. I’ll call people by whatever name or pronouns they want but I don’t care about the obsession around gender identity. I’m a woman and I like some masculine things, I don’t like feminine clothes or make up, but that doesn’t mean I want to be a boy. I’m just a tomboy girl. My cousin who is also a tomboy now says she is non-binary because she doesn’t like wearing dresses and says that I am non-binary too and won’t listen when I tell her that I have two X chromosomes so I am a woman despite my boyish interests. But if I push back against this then I’m transphobic and ableist because it seems most people on the main autism sub are trans. They are completely separate things, why do we have to merge them? And to reiterate in case anyone comes for me like in the past, I will respect anyone who is trans or non-binary and use the terms they want, I just don’t understand why they care about what their sex is.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't understand it either but it's apparently a neurological thing from what people have told me.
It's not really ableist, though, because trans isn't a disability and most autistic people are not trans. Yes it's more common in autistic demographics, supposedly, but that doesn't mean it's common in autistic demographics and that is something that trips people up.
I did some research over the past few hours and now I am going to info dump.
There also appears to be some conflating between trans and non-heterosexual, lately, with people thinking they are trans just because they are interested in same-sex encounters. Many people even take it to the extreme and identify as trans simply because they have some sort of paraphilia, or even because they "are attracted to emotional connections more than physical appearance" which is just a sign of emotional maturity, not trans.
At some point in the rhetoric, all of this stuff gets mixed in with autism because "autistic people are more likely to identify as non-heterosexual", which somehow translates into "autistic people are mostly trans"? This data about autistic people reporting themselves as non-heterosexual is extremely varied, with some "studies" (actually just unregulated polls) showing 15-30% (yeah huge variance in just one study, obviously not scientific standard), and some "studies" showing 6-15%, one "study" alleging up to 65%! Take as a whole, the data shows that between 6 and 60% of autistic people report being non-heterosexual. Is that the variance we'd expect to see in something where there is a de facto correlation? Absolutely not. That's the variance we'd see in something called horseshit. The "studies" on autism and trans correlations, the variance in the data ranges from 20 to 40%, also not what you'd expect from real science. If you tried to buy a car and the salesperson said it will get between 6 and 60 miles per gallon, wyd? lol
Most of this stuff is very convoluted and mixed up with other stuff, and a lot of it comes down to what people think words mean and what they actually mean, too. If you break down what percent of these participants report their specific sexuality to be, more often report asexuality than bi or gay, and it gets listed as non-heterosexual, which in turn gets labeled as LGBT, and in turn gets conflated with trans after the identity politics get tossed into the mix. Then, we have to also consider that the overwhelming majority of the participants in said studies do not have to actually furnish clinical diagnoses across the board. Not all of the studies use strict screening standards, so we have no assurance that said participants are actually autistic. Presumably none of them are HSN because they don't tend to get included in most studies, but who knows because from what I've read, there seems no mention of severity level (like most autism studies) (maybe someone has found data on this I dk).
Anyway, that's what I've found. If anyone else has found other stuff, I'd be interested to learn about it. This stuff is all new to me, but I did spend several hours looking into it.
***Don't take what I said to mean that autistic people can't be trans or that trans people can't be autistic, or that all the studies are pure bunk. What I'm saying is the correlations are far weaker than people say.
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u/Muted_Ad7298 Asperger’s 2d ago
I think it’s due to the shared experiences of discrimination.
I’m a lesbian and was diagnosed with Aspergers, and sadly I’ve experienced discrimination due to both of these things.
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u/Lady_Capybara Level 2 Autistic 2d ago
I haven't seen anyone conflating being trans and being autistic. It might just be whatever your feed is showing you. Trans people are overrepresented in autism numbers but are still a small minority. Most people I know who are both autistic and trans are too busy talking about video games to conflate the two concepts. And, surely you could relate to the autistic part of autistic trans people's experiences, just as I can relate to the autistic part of autistic straight men's experiences, even though I am only the first of those three things.
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u/No-Supermarket5288 1d ago
In my opinion the queer community has a high prevelance of mental health issues and addiction. As a result they have started to latch onto things like ADHD and autism to explain away their issues rather than reflecting on the deeper causes.
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u/Shoddy-Group-5493 Autistic and OCD 2d ago
It’s because the same people are doing the same thing to both communities at the same time. They want it watered down into meaning nothing. They want the same infantilization and lack of accountability for both groups. A get out of jail free card, usually so they can deny their own bad behavior, and blame it on something else they deem out of their control from birth, and/or something they can blame the entirety of society for causing.
Yes, there is precedent for some interconnection of trans and autistic issues. They’re both neurological conditions facing demedicalization. Both being neuro conditions, they can be comorbid, just like any other ND type like adhd, epilepsy, etc. and are also disgustingly under-researched and common knowledge about them both is still heavily dominated by myths and disinformation.
Though, all of those connections still have their time and place. But the thing is that people with these ideas don’t believe in “time or place,” it’s ingrained in them that they have to talk about it any moment they physically can, almost as a rule. Where by being part of these groups, it’s your responsibility to constantly advocate and talk about your issues every waking moment or else you aren’t Being A Good Person.
It’s just politics to some people. Another label they can put on for fun and take off when it stops being beneficial. Just some little name tags and pfps and slogans in their bios they can laugh at and/or be embarrassed about using in 20 years. They don’t care that it’s our actual permanent lives. It’s just another random ingredient in their social word salad.
They’re making the venn diagram of the perception of both groups even larger because it’s easy. Trick the gullible autistics into believing they’re trans for not following unrealistic stereotypical gender roles, and trick the gullible trans people into thinking their transness is caused by autism the entire time (in a good way), and that being trans is actually a social thing where you don’t like gender roles or want to escape traumatic experiences like SA, etc.
They want to devalue both conditions into meaning nothing, it’s killing two birds with one stone. There’s no reason, or logic, or anything of the sort. They’re just doing it because they can, and people are letting them get away with it just to feel good about themselves, instead of actually wanting to help marginalized people. Confrontation is difficult. Hand waving and looking the other way is easy. Normal people aren’t going to argue if they see someone claim to be part of a minority group saying “doing this will help us,” they don’t have a reason to not believe them, they don’t see why someone would make up something like that. They just do what they ask because why not? You’ll feel like you did a good thing for a little while. It’s easy. Until the people eventually get bored, or even feel taken advantage of.
Again, with the need to bring it up constantly all of the time for no reason, it’s all on purpose. They talk about it so much that to outsiders it all starts to blend together and they become numb to it all the same. Even in progressive supportive environments, people stop listening to someone talking about just autistic or just trans issues, and to others listening it’s just Charlie Brown Parents sound. It’s where the idea of Oppression Olympics comes from. In desperation to get someone to listen, people talk about all of their problems all of the time at once to try and maximize the chance of just one person hearing and responding to their plight. More issues = more empathy and interaction. It’s just what works.
Eventually everyone is listing their entire medical resumes when commenting on posts because if they just mention one little thing it gets swept away with everyone else’s one little thing. But now everyone’s so deep into it, the 10 page essays describing their identities and medical histories are so commonplace that no one really thinks about it anymore. It’s just automatic to them. So it’s gone from “for context, I’ll mention these separate conditions I have that can explain the different ways in which I work and function” to “this is my obligatory identity/condition soup that I see as one single entity that I base my entire personality and beliefs off of.” And to anyone on the outside it all just filters right into “random bullshit I don’t believe in or care about.” Social media bios or pinned posts all start sounding like Charlie Brown Parent noises to them.
Then over time, those in the out-group start to associate all of the conditions, even individually, as buzzwords and red flags and also start lumping them in together out of pure convenience. Even people here admit to doing those same things, it’s more or less instinctual self-preservation in most people to just inherently avoid “annoying” interactions or reminders of something. It’s like finding a really good artist, going to their profile to follow them, but just backing out when they list every ailment and belief they’ve ever had before their name.
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u/Shoddy-Group-5493 Autistic and OCD 2d ago
It’s also not the individuals doing this on purpose, by any means. Most of them are kids, or sometimes even older people trying to find themselves for the first time. They really think they’re doing the right thing, they want to be good people. Even those who really do have the conditions, they just want safety and community, and the ones peddling all of this are happy to provide it (so long as they agree with everything they believe…). It’s so much deeper than cringe tiktokers or malingerers or whatever, because they all get their ideas from somewhere. It’s all just parroting what they heard is the “right” thing to do, most don’t even know why they believe what they do, they just heard it was the correct thing to believe in order to be a good person in the eyes of others with the same beliefs. But it doesn’t matter how you look to non-believers, because they’re just disgusting evil gatekeepy losers, and you don’t want to be ones of those, right?? So just keep following the leader and you’ll be seen as good and wholesome and moral and correct.
But the underlying issue that they aren’t seeing, some even ignoring, is the intent to mix up all of these issues so horribly that when it eventually falls apart at the deans, all of it can be brushed away as “useless woke bullshit,” and everyone can be reprimanded for being stupid and thinking any of it was even remotely legitimate at any point. That’s already how people are brought into extremist groups. It’s actually extremely common for TERFs to argue against trans people and all sorts of progressive ideology because “I was just an autistic girl who l didn’t like femininity the whole time, they lied to me, so they’re obviously lying to you too.” But when you look into why the majority of those people transitioned, it boils down to being told this serious medical condition is just an identity you can diagnose yourself with, and/or you can be taught scripts or cheat codes to find doctors that will diagnose you instead. That they shouldn’t look deeper into potential causes of their feelings, but it was really just society that caused all of it, and by reclaiming these conditions, it’s, uh, making a statement against society, somehow….? So, again, politics. It’s all politics, in all directions.
It’s all a long con for people in power to say “I told you so! This is what happens when you think for yourselves! This wouldn’t have happened if you just let us make all of the rules.” We’re already actively seeing the effects of all of this in the US. I can’t speak for international social climates, but they don’t sound sparkling clean either. Especially legislation on trans people now, the original US bathroom bill controversies aren’t even a decade old yet. Hell, even Obergefell v. Hodges only turns 10 this June…. Disability protections are already shaky, imagine how much more strict they could make them if they really wanted to? They could easily just say it’s another excessive government expense to get rid of. And there’s small but loud groups of people who would celebrate. Both in favor of removing “unnecessary” costs, and others because it “affirms that disability isn’t medical,” or whatever else they can excuse it with.
What I think is the most unfortunate is that even in this comment section people are calling being trans an “identity” issue and that’s why they don’t like being associated with trans stuff. You’re [general] falling for the exact same thing people want to do to autism. It’s not an identity or a spiritual thing or any other 5000000 excuses people want to make up about being trans. It’s a disabling medical condition caused by having an atypical neurology. Transition and support is the treatment for the disability. It’s the exact same thing people are arguing against with self-dxrs and broadening the spectrum into nothingness everyone is against here. They just already succeeded in doing it to trans people first, I’d imagine mostly because there’s just so few of us.
If you want to see the future of the “autistic community” when no one fights back against the way it’s going, look no further than the current state of anything trans related. It’s abysmal. I wish I could go back like 10 years ago when it was still somewhat normal. But these tactics are so successful that even communities that theoretically should be close are being alienated from each other in real time.
Whoops. That’s a bit long and ranty. But man, I’m just so tired of it all. Feels like an inescapable black hole. I wish I could have had the experience most others I talk to seem to have had where they were originally blindly accepting of everything and did get to enjoy parts of their communities at least for a little bit, but I’ve been deep into “”discourse”” since before I even knew I had these conditions, a literal child. I could never put up the “just smile and wave” mask like others could, and I felt the brunt of it the whole time. My “opinions” have rarely if ever changed, but the communities around me have, a lot. I just wish I could exist without it being seen as political for 5 minutes, lol.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Wow, see I didn't know much about the trans stuff because I'm not trans I'm just a basic autistic guy. I didn't know it was neurological, either. I was told that if I don't relate to the stereotypical man gender role that I'm nonbinary, which I thought was weird and never thought of myself as that (I don't really feel like a stereotypical man, I hate being called a man , or sir, but I definitely am not a woman or a girl or ma'am and I'm not genderless either).
I had never really connected these things before but you're totally right. Now that you've pointed it out, I can clearly see it. I had noticed this increase of people saying they're trans over the past ten years. It does seem like some sort of concerted effort to unravel civil rights and disability rights, lately. Even my therapist tried using neurodiversity language with me she tried saying "neurotypicals" and I pointedly said "typically developing" instead, when I talked.
You're totally right. I appreciate your long form comments, it was worth reading for sure. I know you probably spent a long time writing it, too, thank you
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u/Common-Page-8596-2 1d ago
Loved this, incredible post. I don't have too many thoughts myself but this makes a lot of things just add up to me.
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u/white-meadow-moth 1d ago
I feel like autism has become increasingly associated with the queer community. I really don’t get it, though I am queer (trans + gay) and autistic myself.
From my perspective, autism is inherently medical. It’s not the same as being trans, which isn’t inherently medical (gender dysphoria is but being trans in general isn’t). Autism is a diagnosable developmental disorder, and it has no community outside of that. The trans and broader queer communities have always had community outside the way the medical system sees us, but it seems like any non-medical autism community that exists has spawned directly from the medical concept of it. So I don’t get how you can divorce the medical aspect from something that has always been medical.
I’m also about to get a bachelors in psychology (major), biology (major), and physiology (minor), and one of my special interests is death/anatomy/the body, so I guess my perspective is a little biased to see things through a medical lens. But yeah.
I also don’t really believe in manners of categorising personality, like 16personalities or whatever. They never hold up scientifically. So I don’t really like the idea of autism going that route, if only because similar ideas have never been shown to be scientifically valid. And on top of that, there’s the fact that, for many people, autism is solidly a disability and a disorder, not just a personality style. So I’m not really sure why people want to categorise it as such. I see people saying “I’m autistic but I don’t have a disorder or disability and I don’t want to get diagnosed! It’s just a manner of being!” and I just think… I get it, but why are you choosing the label “autistic” when it is definitionally a disability? Like there’s other words out there you could use for this.
I honestly don’t understand it. My only theories are that it’s either autistic people who don’t want to accept that they are disabled, or it’s people who relate to some autistic traits and mistakenly think that is what autism is (vs. something that is, by definition, a disability), or it’s people who want to feel special and part of something, or it’s people who are guilty for being part of a majority and want to have minority status so they don’t have to feel bad about being part of an “oppressor” class, or maybe it’s people who want to be able to act badly and be able to blame being autistic.
Either way I just try to ignore it and stick to talking to autistic people who I agree with on this stuff. I try to just block people who are overly in support of demedicalising autism because I don’t agree but also I don’t really think it’s worth it to argue about it.
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u/luciferfoot 2d ago
as a transsexual i also noticed that a lot of these people are borderline if not transtrenders - i know that’s a controversial opinion but yeah…
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Better to be based than disingenuous imo
And I dk much about the topic I just know it's been taking over a lot of online ASD groups lately and it's not what I joined those groups for. Like it's okay to be trans imo but people need to keep things on topic otherwise what is the point in the group
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u/Fearless_pineaplle Moderate to Severe Autism 2d ago
are uou you a transmeducalist too? i have been out for 11 years and on hrt sevreal years and am transsexual
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u/luciferfoot 1d ago
i’m also on hrt nice to meet someone else here who is too :) i wouldn’t say i am or am not simply because i just believe what i believe to be true
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u/shadowthehedgehoe Autistic 2d ago
Yeah I hear you. There are so many trans communities out there, so it's not like they don't have spaces to talk about their issues. When I go to an autism sub I want to see autism content. When I go to any sub, it's because I want to see the content that sub was made for. I have all respect for trans people but it's just not content I care for, and it's everywhere which yeah, makes browsing more frustrating.
It is especially bad in autism subs, in the main one I saw a post about a harmless special interest get taken down for "not being related to autism" but the posts that are only about being trans get left up.
There is some evidence to suggest that they are connected, but I honestly think it's more "if you're autistic you're more likely to struggle with gender and gender rules/roles and therefore think you're trans" rather than "trans people are more likely to be autistic".
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
I agree with you 100%. You basically said what I was trying to say but couldn't figure out how
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u/NefariousnessAble940 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because people who self diagnose wants to stand out.
Usually people who self diagnose wants to be the socially accepting way of being different, they make up the majority of social standars to be accepted but they don't want that, they want to excel and "not be normies" but belonging to a community at the same time, so they go to LGBT spaces or neurodiversitiy ones.
The amount of people i heard claiming to be "bisexual" but never dated someone of their same gender... Jesús.
These kind of people can have normal lifes, but normal is "boring". "I want to be different! But not THAT different to the point i'm disabled or rejected by normies, please let me be in your community full of socially accepted weirdos!"
When you are with these people, don't say that what they do ins't valid, they won't care and won't listen because they tricked themselves into thinking they're part of the group, what you should do is make them REJECT the idea of being inside the group, they're normies at the end.
Say symptoms or traits about your disorder that will make them not want to be associated with what makes "you" be "you".
For example, there was a girl in my collage that was obsessed with LGBT and neurodiversitiy and all that stuff, when i said that i was autistic to the teacher, she started talking with me in the moment saying me all the typical stuff like:"you're autistic? I didn't know! You mask so well" or whatever.
We started to talk about how living with autism and i clearly noticed she wasn't autistic, and wasn't diagnosed, so then when we talked about stimming and meltdowns, she said that while feeling overstimulated she used her hearphones and go "non-verbal", i said that i'm more a hyposensitive guy and due my childhood trauma i used Gore videos to calm down when overstimulated, especially animal abuse one, she was so weirded out lol.
I told her how amygdala and pre frontal cortex was affected by autism tho, and why i didn't have any kind of compassion or empathy, i also lied saying that all my friends were autistic tho and did that, even that lne of them almost killed his cat during a meltdown, she was super freaked out while i was talking.
Idk if it was due my conversation with her or just maturity, but after that i never see her talking about autism or neurodiversitiy again, not teachers, no friends, nothing, maybe it was just a phase.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
"I use my headphones and go nonverbal" from a TD person is absurd. Clearly they just mean they don't talk to anyone, which is is far different from your brain shutting down the speech centers or not developing them at all. People are ridiculous.
What you told her to weird her out is hilarious by the way 😂 nice touch. "We're basically serial killers" is what I would have said LMFAO
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u/NefariousnessAble940 2d ago
Exactly, they don't understand autism, they just like the concept of being autistic without the implications of it.
From then, overstimulation is just stress. Hiperfixations are interests. Social skills are- well, they never mention that part 🤷
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u/ZRaptar 2d ago
This is only a problem on white dominated online asd places, not just asd but for a whole other conditions as well it seems
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u/iilsun 2d ago
But lately it seems like autism and trans are being considered as one and the same in many communities.
There are definitely more trans people in autistic spaces than you might expect based on the general population but I see no indication that the two are seen as one and the same. What would that even look like? Do you mean you interact in an autistic space and everyone assumes you must be trans?
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
No, I mean posts where people talk about being trans and assume that equates to being autistic, and vice versa (yes these are real posts).
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u/dog-signals 2d ago
Could you give an example of how the word these posts?
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
That would violate reddit rules because it would constitute brigading and I really don't want to risk people being harassed because of it either.
If you're asking so you can try to argue about it, then please stop, I don't come on here to argue I come on here to find support through people I can relate to.
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u/dog-signals 2d ago
What the heck, no I'm not trying to argue! I guess I just can't imagine how it could be worded to imply both at the same time like they're interchangeable terms. That sounds really weird. I'm autistic so it sounds confusing and only wanted clarification so please don't jump to conclusions.
I have noticed the two overlap often. Many trans seem to have neuro disorders and vice versa. I see it get brought up in general when people describe themselves but the posts your talking idk what you mean. So was hoping to see a fake example of how that even looks. Of course don't directly copypaste or link to someone actual post. Just curious.
I also know what you mean by not being able to relate to others and their experience. It's not a bad thing, just not who you are.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Usually online when people start asking questions like that, it's so they can trick you into providing examples that they can argue with you over. This still sounds like it's going to lead to an argument so I'm going to disengage just to be safe. I dunno, read the other comments maybe it'll give you an idea
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u/HelloImAutism ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
It’s not that they aren’t a part of the community but instead that they are making the community a part of LGQTB+ conversations only. It’s been called out in the main sub as well.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
This is exactly what I'm talking about! And I wasn't aware people actually called it out. I'm too scared too. I have gotten banned from subs for calling people out for inappropriate things and then the mods take their sides anyway. Moderation on Reddit is iffy at best
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u/iilsun 2d ago
Okay maybe I'm just not online enough to have seen this going on
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u/SilverFormal2831 2d ago
Thank you for asking the questions because I genuinely have not seen these posts and cannot think of a way this would look. Like I've seen posts asking questions about why it seems there are more trans/enby autistic, but not anything like these comments are referencing
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u/cranonymous28 ASD 1d ago edited 1d ago
What I love about his sub is that it is anti self diagnosis. However I think everyone is way too quick call out self dx when something is perceived to jeopardize the validity of their diagnosis and life experience
Queer people are significantly more likely to be diagnosed with autism than the general population. I keep seeing people saying “supposedly” and giving excuses as to why this research isn’t valid?? There are so many studies.
But Im wondering if it looks like so much to straight people just because they aren’t use to seeing this many queer people in general
Either way I find a lot of the dialogue in this thread to be very patronizing and kinda harmful. And tbh homo/transphobic. Starting a sentence with I support trans right doesn’t make it okay if you then go on about how you don’t like hearing about the intersectionality of queerness and disability.
It sounds more like some people just don’t want to associate with queerness even though the association actually does exist.
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u/cranonymous28 ASD 1d ago edited 1d ago
http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/autistic-individuals-are-more-likely-to-be-lgbtq
http://www.aane.org/sexual-orientation-gender-identity-aspergerautism
https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/autism-lgbtq-identity
http://www.spectrumnews.org/news/gender-and-sexuality-in-autism-explained
Queer people could also be more open to the idea of asd. Like stigmatize it less which could drive engagement.
Overall I hate self ex just as much as anyone here but there are just so many other possibilities.
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u/frostatypical 1d ago
Indeed, as a member of said community I have also seen this problem. Logic implied or flat out stated along the lines of "if your trans your autistic" whacky.
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u/keineAhnung2571 Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 23h ago
I have noticed that as well. I'm not trans but I am a lesbian and it throws me off when I see people claim how being autistic and part of the LGBT community should always go hand in hand. I just happen to be gay but my autism didn't cause that
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u/cannedbread1 22h ago
Oh yup. It seems the rainbow (glbt) and adhd and autists are all mixed up. I honestly find it weird and it grates me, although I don't have an issue with glbt itself (I mean, I'm a lesbian!). But it's a thing for sure.
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u/Fearless_pineaplle Moderate to Severe Autism 2d ago edited 2d ago
i cane came out as transexual in 2014 and dxed autism age 2 .
im transmed as well
edit
why did i fet get downvoted i just shared my medical information
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u/Common-Page-8596-2 1d ago
I'm sorry you're getting downvoted. I don't think you should be. It's ridiculous to me that people are here against self-diagnosis for autism but then basically support it for another condition..
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
What is transmed
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u/Fearless_pineaplle Moderate to Severe Autism 2d ago
i ca ca copy this from google
"Transmedicalism is the belief that being transgender is primarily a medical issue, contingent on experiencing gender dysphoria and/or requiring medical intervention for transition"
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
I've never heard the term before. I don't know that much about this topic, so that's why. I didn't even know gender dysphoria and trans were two different things until someone in this post said they are.
As for your down-vote, I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm not sure why you got downvoted. There are a couple of users that have been arguing with and insulting people on this post in the comments, maybe it is one of them that did it. I'm really not sure because I blocked them and so did most of us I think. They're probably still lurking and trying to harass people
I'll upvote you to help balance it out lol
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u/Fearless_pineaplle Moderate to Severe Autism 2d ago
why did i fet get downvoted i just shared my medical information
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u/MienaLovesCats 2d ago
I have noticed that too. My 20 yr old mid - ASD daughter; who is a straight Christian Furry really struggles in on line communities
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
...furry? Am I really this old...? Wtf does this even mean?
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u/MienaLovesCats 2d ago
Google what is a "furry". For some like my daughter; making a costume; like a mascot costume; and wearing it not just on Halloween is innocent. Sadly for some the roll playing gets to the extreme; like using a litter box instead of a toilet or pretending to be an animal "mating" with another person in an animal costume
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2d ago
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
That's not what I mean. I mean people are starting to equate them 1 to 1 now.
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u/-Proterra- Asperger’s 2d ago
Yeah, and that doesn't make sense. They're distinct neurodevelopmental disorders which are related because the cause is very similar, and thus have a high level of comorbidity. (like around 15-20% I've read) - saying they're the same is like saying autism is the same as ADHD (which I also see a lot)
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
I wonder if the numbers are even correct, anyway — we know that self dxers often gets included in modern research and we know that there is a huge involvement of identity politics in autism studies nowadays ... It's getting to the point where I feel like I can't even trust the research anymore because of this identity politics stuff
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u/Overall_Future1087 ASD 2d ago
Oh yeah, that too. Yesterday I saw a post where they were searching for volunteers to do a survey or something like that. Obviously, they included the self-diagnosers. Guess what the first reply complained about? How the OP referred to the self-diagnosers, policing the language and complaining about the stupidest thing they could've complained about
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u/-Proterra- Asperger’s 2d ago
Yeah, screw that. Both F64.x and F84.x are disorders requiring professional diagnosis. One can suspect, but unless one sees a specialist, they can't be certain.
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u/-Proterra- Asperger’s 2d ago
True, which is why I basically discount every social study as likely flawed.
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u/Miguel-Gregorio-662 Autistic and ADHD 2d ago
Identity Politics; it's my first time to encounter this concept---gonna search up more on it.
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u/-Proterra- Asperger’s 2d ago
Like don't get me wrong; it makes perfect sense to screen for autism in a person presenting with gender dysphoria and vice versa, simply because the mechanism of development is so similar and comorbidity is so high - but equating them 1 to 1 makes absolutely zero sense.
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u/Dry-Dragonfruit5216 ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
No this is also not true. Please refer to the DSM diagnostic criteria. Trans is mental health condition and autism is neurodevelopmental disorder. I have linked an explanation of this in another comment.
Where are you finding all of this misinformation?
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u/-Proterra- Asperger’s 2d ago
It's a structural difference in neurological development, and thus, a type of neurodevelopmental disorder.
Mind you, I prefer to ignore anything coming out of America as their science is highly politicised based on whoever runs their regime, especially these sort of topics.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091302211000252?via%3Dihub
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u/AutisticPeeps-ModTeam 2d ago
This was removed for breaking Rule 7: Do not spread misinformation.
Misinformation is harmful for those who suffer from autism, and has a terrible impact on society.
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 2d ago edited 2d ago
where did you get that transness is caused by getting the wrong hormones during fetal development? /gen, i've heard this about homosexuality but not transness
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u/Dry-Dragonfruit5216 ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
It isn’t true. This is misinformation they keep spreading. I’ve linked them the DSM which classifies body dysmorphia as mental health condition and autism as neurodevelopmental disability. Trans is not present from birth and not caused by receiving the wrong hormones. It’s a mental health condition classified with OCD, hoarding, and skin picking/hair pulling disorders.
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u/deadly_fungi Autistic, ADHD, and OCD 1d ago
how peculiar, to put it nicely, that they're spreading that... thank you for correcting them, and letting me know this. sex dysphoria/body dysmorphia is certainly more reminiscent/similar in experience for me to my OCD than to autism.
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u/Dry-Dragonfruit5216 ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
This is incorrect. Transgender came from body dysmorphia which is a mental health condition. It’s not a neurodevelopmental disability/disorder. I studied these at uni and trans never once came up. The DSM says body dysmorphic disorder (basis of being trans) is a mental health condition. It is not genetic like autism is and it’s not present from birth so it’s not neurodevelopmental. Only autism, adhd, and learning disabilities are neurodevelopmental disorders.
Link for reference https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/24291-diagnostic-and-statistical-manual-dsm-5
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/Dry-Dragonfruit5216 ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
I’m not American but linked the DSM as most people here are (and other countries use it including in Europe). I’ll have a look at your links when I have time later.
I was talking about what I studied at uni (the most politically left pro-lgbtq uni in the UK) and the DSM is the most well known source of a lot of research so I chose that as my reference.
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u/-Proterra- Asperger’s 2d ago
Yeah, and that's the annoying part. I'm politically left as well.
However, I'm disgusted by the social sciences getting involved in the diagnostic process of my neurodevelopmental disorders. Their place is in how to make society more equitable and accessible, not in defining what it actually is. Leave that to medical science please.
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u/Dry-Dragonfruit5216 ASD + other disabilities, MSN 2d ago
I agree. They can study how people medically diagnosed with X disorder interact with society etc but they shouldn’t be involved in diagnosing the medical condition.
My degree is in genetics which is very black or white (you have X mutation so you’ll develop Y, you have C combination of mutations so your chance of developing D is 40%, F hormone was underexpressed in the embryo/puberty so they will have G deficits/phenotype, etc), which matches my way of thinking.
It’s why I struggle more with things like gender stereotypes and people changing socially because they don’t fit these stereotypes which seem to be getting more rigid and extreme. I guess that goes back to gender dysphoria X= body dysmorphia. One is their identity not matching strict social gender roles whilst the other is their brain not matching their body sex characteristics (in terms of trans that is, body dysmorphia can present differently such as weight and eating disorders).
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1d ago
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u/Dry-Dragonfruit5216 ASD + other disabilities, MSN 1d ago
That’s not how DSDs (intersex is an incorrect term because they are still genetically binary) work. They are genetic disorders that affect the development of physical sexual characteristics. There is no such thing as a DSD that only affects the brain. As I said before I have a genetics degree, we studied sexual differentiation in a lot of detail. What you are saying is either misunderstanding what the scientists are saying or copying someone who didn’t explain it properly. People with a DSD can’t always tell without a genetic test either, the differences can be quite minor. For example people with Turner syndrome are female because they have no Y chromosome (X-) and people with Klinefelter syndrome are male because they have a Y chromosome (XXY). It is the presence of the SRY gene on the Y chromosome that makes someone male, otherwise they develop as female. The only time this is different is complete androgen insensitivity where the cells completely can’t bind to androgen (product of SRY gene) so despite being XY they develop as infertile females with no internal female genitalia and undeveloped testes. Nothing like that happens just for the brain though. You can’t have an ‘intersex’ brain condition.
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u/AutisticPeeps-ModTeam 1d ago
This was removed for breaking Rule 7: Do not spread misinformation.
Misinformation is harmful for those who suffer from autism, and has a terrible impact on society.
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u/AutisticPeeps-ModTeam 1d ago
This was removed for breaking Rule 7: Do not spread misinformation.
Misinformation is harmful for those who suffer from autism, and has a terrible impact on society.
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u/mango-kittycat Autistic and OCD 2d ago
I think it's because there's a statistics out there that says autistic people are much more likely to be trans than non autistic people.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
People taking that way too far imo and it's making it hard to relate to posts in other subs
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u/Real-Expression-1222 2d ago
Trans people are more likely to be autistic I’ve heard
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
That's fine but it still doesn't mean they go hand in hand though
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u/Real-Expression-1222 2d ago
That’s true but at the same time just because for you it doesn’t mean for some people it does.
And honestly don’t take this as an attack, but if you don’t have any problem with trans people I wonder why you have such a problem with being associated with them. This is not to call you transphobic but I think you should really question why you feel that way. Again this is not supposed to come off as an attack, I don’t believe you as a person are violently transphobic or anything but I think you should do some introspection
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Who said I have a problem being associated with anyone? Why are you trying to make snipes at me? Wtf is your problem?
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u/Real-Expression-1222 2d ago
I’m not trying to attack you. I am simply criticizing you on an online platform (which I have a right to do) on a post where you are clearly trying to have a discussion. It isn’t harsh or unfair and again, I do not believe you are transphobic or anything. you are just taking it personally
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
No, you do not have a "right" to criticize people, and this is my post, so bye. Touch grass. 👎
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u/mistake882 2d ago
Statistically, autistic people are more likely to be part of the lgbt community. I myself am bi and agender. I think the problem comes in where people become so comfortable in autistic spaces (which is obviously not bad by itself) that they think they can talk or rant about every part of themselves, forgetting the community was originally to talk about the autism experience.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
I have found no reliable statistics or studies on this. I think it's this neurodiversity identity politics stuff that affects this
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u/mistake882 2d ago
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u/Overall_Future1087 ASD 2d ago
Those studies aren't enough to make statements like those.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Exactly. They're statistical correlations based on cherry picked participants and someone struggling to identify as a boy or girl isn't the same as being transgendered per se, yet it's often taken to be the same thing
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
Refer to my previous comment.
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2d ago
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u/AutisticPeeps-ModTeam 2d ago
This was removed for breaking Rule 6: Be respectful towards others and don't start fights.
Please, be respectful towards others and don't start fights over small things.
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u/Murky-South9706 ASD 2d ago
There were two parts to my previous comment but you cherry picked the part that you thought would support what you already believed, instead. This has been a failure in productive communication. If you don't want to have a serious discussion, just say so. I will not tolerate further ad hominems.
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1d ago
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u/AutisticPeeps-ModTeam 1d ago
This was removed for breaking Rule 7: Do not spread misinformation.
Misinformation is harmful for those who suffer from autism, and has a terrible impact on society.
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u/AutisticPeeps-ModTeam 2d ago
This was removed for breaking Rule 6: Be respectful towards others and don't start fights.
Please, be respectful towards others and don't start fights over small things.
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2d ago
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u/AutisticPeeps-ModTeam 2d ago
This was removed for breaking Rule 6: Be respectful towards others and don't start fights.
Please, be respectful towards others and don't start fights over small things.
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u/Overall_Future1087 ASD 2d ago
I know what you mean, I've noticed it too. Not only the autism online community, I'd say it's a generalized thing. In every fandom, for example