Neurodivergence & Capitalism: A response to Benn Jordan's "This Is Why You Can't Get ADHD Treatment"

[u/westcoastqueer]

[u/AutisticWithADHD-ModTeam]

We removed your submission because we determined it is not appropriate for our community.

[u/3rdworldson]

"However, I have found great hope in a way that no psychiatrist or stimulant has ever been able to provide: Understanding the mechanisms behind social, political, and economic change throughout history, and knowing that capitalism is on it’s dying breaths." 
^^^This is important to grasp.

While treatment (medication, therapy, etc.) under the current system is absolutely crucial for so many of us in terms of survival, thriving and flourishing comes with an entire system change. Community also comes with organizing, and community has been one of the things that has kept me alive when I could not access treatment for years.

[u/Grand-Tension8668]

Cyberpunk (the genre) really did predict our future, huh?

[u/[deleted] → u/Grand-Tension8668]

In the same way a skilled archer can predict the trajectory of an arrow, an insightful writer can predict the trajectory of society. That’s what prophecy is in real life.

[u/3rdworldson → u/[deleted]]

Fuck, that's a good analogy lol

[u/very_late_bloomer]

Nice diatribe, but i'm afraid i do disagree on two (relatively minor?) points:

one, some of us are just plain deficient in dopamine. period. our brains just produce LESS. this can't be considered a response to any societal impact; it's a genetic, biological, chemical, and/or morphological condition, and under ANY system, those like me would, unmedicated, continue to suffer chronic depression and other symptoms unabated. that's not a difference of mind, self, perception, identity...it's a disability.

and two...i'm afraid i can't possibly share your optimism. executive function and burnout are widespread; the energy to organize is massive. The overlords hold sway over ALL media, and even on the occasions when vastly damning information is exposed, we are flooded with disinformation and additional extremist events until the worst things imaginable are normalized. They hold sway over our very diets, having stolen the tactics of the tobacco barons and introduced addictive chemicals into every mainstay staple of "poor people" food, resulting in an obesity pandemic and a sedentary lifestyle, where the common man has even LESS energy. They have torn apart our education system, and propped up every propagandist church in their neverending battle against science, rationality, and progress. They have cried wolf and projection-biased every imaginable scenario until the masses can't care anymore. They have stirred up the most violent and moronic among us, and rewarded them with attention for each step further into insanity. For christ's sake, they actively WORSHIP a serial rapist mobster who insults them to their faces. I wish I could share your optimism. But the math just doesn't work out...

[u/westcoastqueer → u/very_late_bloomer]

Thank you for taking the time to reply in such depth! I agree with the sentiment of everything you shared, but have a few responses that I hope might increase your optimism:

1) there are two levels to the aspect of dopamine deficiency: the reality of living with a dopamine-deficient brain, and the underlying causes. You are absolutely correct in your assessment of what the consequences of living with a lack of dopamine entails, however, I think that it’s worth looking deeper at what causes that chemical reality to come to be. I find more and more evidence to suggest that there is a deep connection between the material reality of our neurological conditions and the mental (or perhaps spiritual?) state of our humanity. Yes, there is undoubtedly a lack of dopamine in our brains, however, how did this come to pass? The more I’ve investigated, the more I believe that the chemical conditions of our bodies are reactions to our mental and spiritual states. Postmodern psychology would lead us to believe that the state of dopamine deficiency is the underlying cause, and that our psychological pain results from that reality. I would argue that the opposite is true: our psychological realities influence the production of dopamine in our brains. We are dopamine deficient because of the material conditions we exist within. Yes, it is absolutely a disability. Yes, it absolutely affects our ability to thrive in this world. However, I truly believe that within a different societal reality, the chemical production and uptake within our brains would also be different.

2) I’m afraid that I agree with everything you said. Or at least I do at times. However, I think you’re overlooking an important fact: humans, especially those with ADHD, find an incredible amount of unrecognized energy through external motivation. When shit hits the fan, we find ourselves in a position where it feels like we have no choice but to act. There have been countless times in my life where I feel utterly incapable of accomplishing a goal until I am forced to. As the material conditions we live within deteriorate more and more, there will come a time when the external pressure to act is so great that we will feel forced to act. All of the points you listed as hopeless endings, I view those as upcoming opportunities: eventually even the most processed cheap foods will become too expensive, the education systems will become so obviously useless that even the most disconnected parents will question why their children are wasting their youth, and the generation that grew up within this obsolete system will come into adulthood with the understanding that they have been lied to their entire life. It’s already happening. The excruciating reality of watching a genocide live streamed globally for the first time in history is causing more and more of the population to wake up. Israel has created a massive escalation in the decline of the empire, and there’s no going back from that.

I feel you deeply on every point. There are days that I lay in bed all day sobbing, taking in the reality of the horror that we have created. But if we adopt that stance as our moral goalpost, we have let the imperialists win. We MUST find a way to maintain hope - our future depends on it. Whether that’s a spiritual connection, community, or a philosophical stance, we need to find the motivation within ourselves to fight for the future. Sometimes that can come from an internal revelation, but also we must not beat ourselves up too much if we can’t find the motivation internally (lmao ADHD is pretty much summed up by a lack of internal motivation), because sooner or later the material conditions of our lives will force the motivation upon us. And it’s up to us to create those conditions as soon as we can

[u/tehpopulator → u/westcoastqueer]

With the first point, you're gonna need some evidence involved. Belief without science is blind.

[u/Hesitation-Marx]

This is EXTREMELY relevant to my interests, I like you, let’s be comrades 💖

[u/westcoastqueer → u/Hesitation-Marx]

Hell yeah! 🫶

[u/DJNinjaG]

I got about half way through. From what I could read it was spot on, but I don’t have the patience to read on.

Kind of ironic that given topic but that’s how the mind works unfortunately.

[u/DevinGraysonShirk]

We should band together to help each other as much as we can. Screw ideologies. I’m human-first, dammit!

[u/Entr0pic08]

I recommend Elliot Sang's video about ADHD under capitalism.

I have some more things I wish I say but will have to mull it over some first.

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[u/fdagpigj]

exceptionally well written, comrade ✊

[u/alexmadsen1]

i like it! I hope you dont mind if i cross-post to r/NeurodivergentScience

[u/westcoastqueer → u/alexmadsen1]

Hell yeah go for it

[u/hka011]

I didn't really expect it to be THE Benn Jordan! A great musician aka the Flashbulb.

Favourite song: Warm Hands in Cold Fog

Spotify https://open.spotify.com/track/5KRulQwsf5N5s4hW69U9FX?si=zyhH6qckTyaZtsI0UN-Q2g

YouTube https://youtu.be/j0UqzBHcE9w?si=3sj0b5F2mk3OkStF

[u/lifesapreez]

I highly recommend The Myth of Normal by Gabor Maté. He posits that adhd is a trauma response from the society we live in. Neurodivergent people are really sensitive to our environments and we are forced to suppress this quality to meet societal expectations

[u/aliceroyal → u/lifesapreez]

Sounds sus to me. I’d still have exec dysfunction in any other type of society

[u/westcoastqueer → u/aliceroyal]

I think the point is that executive dysfunction is only a debilitating problem in a society that requires an excessive amount of executive function to survive. ADHD folks 100 years ago working on a farm, or 1000 years ago being a court jester, or 10000 years ago hunting with their tribe wouldn’t be forced to suffer though the needlessly complex BS of capitalism, and therefore would likely be much much happier and more “functional”.

[u/westcoastqueer → u/lifesapreez]

Ooh that sounds very interesting! I’ll add it to my reading list

[u/ravenousfig → u/westcoastqueer]

Gabor Mate is a quack. He writes like Jordan Peterson- starts with something that makes sense then makes assumptions and conflates correlation and causation until he's spewing unhinged bullshit.

You should at least look into it, it's important to know what people are saying/what pop psych is up to but keep in mind his work is built on sand.

[u/westcoastqueer → u/ravenousfig]

Ooh good to know. I’ll keep that in mind, ty!

[u/Adventurous-Sun-8840]

I am sorry if I missed this, as I was reading diagonally and it is one of those days. They have started diagnosing women, nonbinary people and BIPOC with ADHD, so there are many new people taking the medication every year. Or at least it is what I think is happening in the UK.