Every time I think about how that show ended I get enraged again.
I know it isn't rational to hold a grudge this long, but I really loved GoT and I don't care. 40 years later I'll probably still be able to rant about how it ended for 10+ minutes with no preparation needed.
It's really sad how the ending really tarnished the legacy of the show. I rarely ever think about the show anymore, and the ending is always the first thing that comes to mind despite it being one of my favorite shows for so long.
To be fair, it wasn't just the ending. Yes it's awful but it's the crescendo of at least a few seasons of drivel.
The characters all turned pretty sarcastic and not true at all to who they were in earlier seasons.
The plot became stupid.
The battles became more and more stupid.
The characters became even more and more stupid.
Ed Sheeran opens an episode for absolutely no reason.
The end episode just confirmed that those things you didn't enjoy and didn't sit right for all those other episodes weren't being righted, they were exactly what they wanted them to be.
Now we are seeing the same with House of Dragons but swap out 'stupid' for 'boring'.
The directors were good at adapting but just bad at writing. Every deviation from Martin they did on their own was bad. The only thing I agree with and apparently Martin also wanted was to age up Danny and the Stark kids by a few years.
That was a modern choice though as it helps us with the TV world more then the reality of the time in which the show was based off. That is a 100% necessity when adapting to the medium
I heard good things about the first season of HotD, but I just couldn't get interested because I know where it leads to (since it's a prequel), and since the payoff is so, so, so fucking terrible, I couldn't be bothered to watch.
I've since heard it's also going off the rails and what little interest I had is out the window.
It wouldn't matter even if he plans to have the exact same ending. He could very well aim for the same characters to end at the same place as they did in the show, but what matters is how they get there. He would most certainly do a better job than the D directors 1 & 2 (I kinda forgot their names).
For example, it's absolutely possible to spend a book on Daenerys's gradual descent into madness, making her subjects question her actions, even giving her a “valid” reason – from her point of view – to burn King's Landing (i.e. if she thought she couldn't win otherwise) to drive the final nail in her coffin.
But I fear after several decades spent with the book, Martin largely lost interest and doesn't plan to finish the two remaining books.
It almost pisses me off he won't just work with a ghostwriter or something. I go back and forth when people say that authors don't owe the fans anything because I'm one hand I agree. However, on the other hand, we've invested time and money into something that made you rich and famous.. we might not be owed anything, but I think we should allowed to be annoyed at someone like him for being so flippant about a series that he obviously has no intention to finish
The thing is it would actually work better (not great, but better) as GRRM's end. The books have plenty of foreshadowing for Dany being pretty crazy. But the show cut almost all of them. So for the show it's totally out of left field.
But what about Arya sneak attacking the Night King after all the build up with John Snow? I know GRRM likes his surprises but that was some sloppy shit.
GRRM or the DBs confirmed as much. I forget which. Basically said all of the major plot points were in line with GRRMs plan for the books.
But IMO the major plot points weren't the problem, it was how they were written. Having Arya kill the Night King makes sense. But having her unexpectedly fly in from off screen, evidently launched by a human catapult, was just silly. If GRRM had written that battle we would know the stakes, we would know the battle is a distraction, and the tension would come from Arya and a small team working their way to assasinate the Night King -- not flying in off screen after "all hope is lost".
Further all hope wasn't lost, because countless characters had obvious plot armor at that point. GRRM doesn't write that way. I feel like all of the major plot points could have happened, while the CGI/Hollywood of it all gets toned back to reality. Meanwhile GRRM would have probably invented dozens of new plot points and characters, accidentally writing yet another book between now and the end. That's his style. And it is utterly absent from the shows final seasons.
My favorite one to point to was the stark kids playing littlefinger, in retrospect it's obvious that's what was gonna happen with Bran there, but they cut out the actual scheming, it's all off screen so it comes across as a surprise when the trial isn't about Arya, but rather littlefinger. There are alot of little moments towards the end they chose to omit for whatever reason that provide the necessary context and foreshadowing for the story beats they needed to hit to get to the end.
my headcannon is that the last two books are written and he's sitting on them doing all his fun side projects and listening to the readers whine. When he dies and everyone flips out, they'll be released posthumously as a final Eff You to the whiny fans.
or he saw all the hate for the ending and you're absolutely right.
Not a guess - there were interviews online quoting him as saying it was more or less the ending he had in mind. Those are gone now though.
To be fair the same general plot points could have been told much better… one of the biggest issues with the series was the showrunners wanting to fuck off and do Star Wars so they rejected the blank cheque and offer for as much time and episodes as needed (damn near unheard of) and rushed through everything.
Now no matter how well GRRM might tell the same story the show already fucked it.
The show runners absolutely fucked the last seasons and the same story beats could have been hit with better reasoning through better writing. However when it comes to having more time, if I remember correctly it wasn't just them rushing off to do Star Wars, a few of the other actors had other projects they wanted to work on and I think it was Bran who just wanted off the show to focus more on college without people hassling him about GoT (his freshman year delayed S8's filming as well I believe).
Sorry it's been awhile so maybe I'm wrong but as I recall there were other factors in them not going forward with more seasons.
The problems with the later seasons had very little to do with the happenings of the plot and almost everything to do with execution. I mean, look at the two versions of the Kingsmoot we get. One is one of the best scenes in the entire series, the other is unironically one of the worst.
To be fair to George. With a story as intertwining as his i bet its a bitch and a half to write. Earlier on its easy to write in sub plots and side plots. The deeper you go the more of a web to tie them together in a way that is satisfying. And if anything George is a perfectionist when it come to this aspect. It's a daunting and really slow task that I could never commit myself to do.
im just disappointed. i wanted to rewatch GOT since years but it makes no sense with this ending. you guys remember how big it was in pop culture? imagine all the games we could have now instead of mount and blade mods and cheap mobile games.
I rewatched it recently (with a girlfriend who had never seen it) and enjoyed it - which came as a pleasant surprise since I too hated the ending way back when it first aired. Perhaps because my expectations weren't what they were back then? This time, I even thought the ending was acceptable - or, at least, comprehensible, though I still don't buy Bran the Broken as you know what.
I rewatched it last year.. seasons 1-5 are still amazing and hold up great. 6-7 have some great episodes and performances but the overall quality of the main story is not up to snuff.
Once I reached the end of 7 I just had no desire to start 8. At all.
I remember reading that the ending probably cost HBO $10B in losses by some estimates. All that merchandising and licensing? Poof! Gone. Like a fart in the wind.
Uh the House of Dragons spinoff is one of the most popular shows running at the moment, broke records for new shows, and got more views than the original at its peak..
Maybe it slowed the hype a little but they’re still making plenty off it.
Those two dipshits are why I won't watch Three Body Problem even though I've heard its great (It helps that I really didn't like the books tho). I just refuse to watch anything those two touch.
It's worth pirating. I read the books and didn't care for the writing, I loved the idea though. I think it was just that they weren't exactly character driven and I'm not real used to that kind of writing. The show though is better at fleshing the characters out. Especially considering that many aren't even in the books and are just sorta split off from Wang into their own characters.
But yeah don't pay to watch it but it's actually worth watching imo.
Yeah it just kinda read like a bad Crichton novel. The first was all right, barely finished the second, looked up the third and saw it gets even weirder and just didn't bother.
I pirate pretty much everything but I just flat out refuse to give those two any second chance or even the time of day, unless it's reminding myself how garbage they are. The bandwidth and bytes on my storage server have better things to do.
No, it’s very rational. It was one of the all time greatest shows, a magnificent piece of storytelling, a showcase of brilliant acting, and should stand, undisputed as a standard for art and entertainment, and they failed to just bring it home and stick the landing to go do something they found more appealing in the moment. They betrayed the fans, the cast, the crew, the writers and the vision that made it great, and they did so for utterly unworthy reasons. Be mad. Stay mad.
Nobody wanted the show to end including GRRM and HBO. The show runners could had just passed the baton. Such a slow moving show that wrapped everything so quickly whether it made sense or not. We should all be pissed.
My head canon is that Drogon took Danny's body back to Esos, gets her resurrected by a red priest and then she brings an army back across the ocean and lays waste to Westeros.
The episode ratings played on piano really puts into perspective just how bad they screwed it all up for me. Just looking at the numbers is one thing but hearing it all come crashing down is something else. It's honestly impressive they could so thoroughly destroy such a beloved show.
I also love how Dumbass & Dumbasser were in such a hurry to finish the show so they could get started on their Star Wars project but after the finale that opportunity went away as fast as their credibility.
The thing that really proved to me how bad the ending was, was that during lockdown, I did not know a single person rewatching Game of Thrones. Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, Avatar the Last Airbender a plenty but it did not cross anyone's mind to rewatch GoT. Because we all know how it ended so like what's the point?
Went from the biggest show in the world to hardly anyone talking about it.
The last episode I watched I THINK was the second to last episode of season 6 (when Sansa feeds Bolton’s dogs)—I was still fairly behind at this point.
A couple people I knew told me that it was a great place to end and I never finished the series. Was it really that poorly executed after?
I won’t talk about it with anyone. I just get irrationally angry. I spent every Tuesday talking about it for hours with a coworker when it was on. They ruined an amazing experience for no fucking reason.
I do wonder if it is worse to botch the final season of a show, or to cancel it prematurely. Fans of Firefly and GoT will probably never get over either.
It's incredible how they killed billions of dollars in rewatch value with the last 2 seasons.
That show was groundbreaking and would have been re-watched for decades, instead in just 2 seasons, they killed it, and any residual value the show had.
What do you mean? Game of Thrones ended with a cloffhanger at the end lf season 7, it's such a shame they never made season 8, just like they never made an Avatar the Last Airbender movie.
If you haven’t watched logan lucky one of the characters goes into a rant much like you are describing. About the books though. Not the show, but it’s still hilarious and worth checking out (applies to the rest of the movie as well)
The show was so dead to me that I basically wiped the ending from my mind. I can remember a few bits and pieces from the end if I try hard enough, but overall I just pretend like it never existed.
Though her time in Severance was short, she played it perfectly.
Did you hate the execution or the actual story? I thought making Dany into a tyrant was brilliant. GRRM has a habit in his stories of ending on a downer, so I was expecting it to be a kick in the nuts.
D&D is what makes me angry. Imo, the only reason GRRM's ending fell flat for some people is because of how badly they rushed things once they ran out of source material
1000000000% the execution. They could’ve done so much to match the spirit of the ending even if it didn’t match it exactly.
One of the shows mistakes was making Dany too likable, which made her turn in the span of 15 on screen minutes seem outta left field.
Instead they could’ve had her be blamed by the lords for the wildfire caches blowing up during the attack on KL, almost completely leveling it, destroying the red keep in the process. Now instead of overthrowing a mad queen (cause damn in the show Cersei was crazy) she is now faced with a choice: continue invading Westeros with fire and blood or “breaking the wheel” like she always said and leaving, hated by everyone aside from her immediate retinue.
Cheesy? Kinda but I spent like 10 minutes thinking about this. Still matches the vibe of GRRM’s ending. Dany doesn’t “win” but is still likable to the audience. Maybe Bran is still king or maybe Westeros split into disparate kingdoms idk. It would require not killing seemingly every lord in a temple first though.
Thats another thing I hate about the later seasons, the world gets crushed and seems way smaller.
I'm still holding out hope for the books being much better. GRRM might get one more done, and another author will probably pick it up after the inevitable and finish it. GRRM surely has enough notes and helpers familiar with his vision to finish things up right regardless if he doesn't live to see its success.
The last book ended with so much on the table there was no resolution in the show to
I rewatched it again recently, and while I will 100% agree the last two seasons were a severely sharp drop in quality and the ending didnt feel properly earned, there is some justification for that scene, Rheagal was still injured from the battle at winterfell. Their response should have been it was a consequence of failing to listen to Sansa's advice to allow the troops to rest before confronting Cersei.
You can build a thousand bridges but fuck just one goat...
What made it especially painful is that he actually did go through a great redemption arc. I mean, it didn't erase what he did but it did make him a far more sympathetic character who you could root for. Until they took a giant dook on everything near the end.
And the thing is, he absolutely stopped fucking that goat in the books. He sleeps with Cersei once after he returns home, but his eyes get opened to how awful she is, to him, the kids, as a ruler. He fights with her, tries to exert a better influence over Tommen, tries to improve things in King's Landing, until he is sent away to the Riverlands, where even then he tries sorting things out. He abandons Cersei for Brienne, choosing to aide her instead of his sister.
If book Jaime ever does go back to Cersei, it will be to kill her.
Jaime has more of an identity arc than a true redemption arc (though he does improve as a person). He's learning he's not just part of Cersie. At like 35, but well, some people are late late late bloomers.
Knowing Martin that's absolutely what he planned for the books. He's a really cynical bastard and it's reflected in his books. Doesn't mean it's satisfying or a good idea tho.
He definitely told them his originally intended ending, and possibly even some of the paths he imagined for how they might get there, and I think that's one of the main reasons he hasn't finished the books, he knows the audience hates his ending and he can't figure out a new one that satisfies both him and the audience.
So this is pretty much correct. He left the show right after season 4 but he gave Dildo & Dildon't all his notes and plans or what have you so they could finish it. Then they decided that dropping the ball just wasn't fun enough so they violated it, drug it around by its nipples, then ground it into the earth where we feel everybody just forget about it but hey.
So now that that ending is ruined he's been rushing like crazy over the last 6 years to come up with a new title or something. Just not a book..
Or something like that, he might have just been thinking real hard and not writing anything down for all I know.
I figure I've got maybe 20 years or so left in me. By all logical means he should have maybe 5 at best, if he holds on out of dumbass determination and sticks around for another 10 years I might get lucky and get to read something like 2.5 whole chapters before I get frustrated and quit holding my breath to just let it go. Until then I'm gonna keep bitching.
At least there's gonna be 16 more spinoffs in HBO. Otherwise I might have to go read a finished book and nobody wants that.
My personal headcanon for how Jamie should have been handled I would have liked to have seen him put in the same position with his sister as he was with the mad king. Standing there as a kings guard protector as his sister loses her mind while Daenerys storms kinda landing. His sister orders the common people to be killed and crosses a line from dictator to tyrant with all of her children dead. As she screams out orders to kill everyone, he stabs her in the back, but his grief as her sibling/lover drives him to fall on the same sword with her. I think that would have been a much more poetic ending for him showing that he couldn’t escape the role of king slayer no matter who sat on the iron throne
I found it really weird that they were attempting some weird-ass redemption of character arc with him and then he literally kills his former squire in order to escape a cage.
He was a complete dick the entire way through, and I felt no sympathy for him at any point.
Yes the wilding raider who raped and pillaged villages for his entire life would have treated her better than the highborn knight because he made googley eyes at her in season 8.
Are you not going to address the atrocities that Jamie committed as well? Either you believe in redemption for a character or you don’t, you don’t get to selectively apply it to the characters you happen to like more.
If the writers weren’t gonna have her with Jamie, Tormund was the obvious choice. One of the only people in the 7 kingdoms that looked at her and saw a beautiful woman and a fierce warrior. Would’ve loved to see a bunch of little Giants-Banes running around
I love Tormund, but he was completely wrong for Brienne. He might be into big strong women, but Brienne’s type has always been princely and honorable and beautiful men.
I love Tormund’s big ol’ crush, but I never wanted them together. Tormund could’ve never been the type of partner Brienne needs or been able to live the type of life she’d want. Sexual compatibility does not a good partnership make.
(That being said, that’s just my opinion for how canonically it should go. Ship as you please and ship away!)
Given how patriarchical the setting is, Brienne ending up with nobody was the best ending for her. Her entire storyline was about subverting gender expectations. I feel like even ending up with a man who "let" her be who she wanted to be would subvert that, even as satisfying as it would be to see her loved.
Tbf after a lifetime of being called ugly, meeting the one guy who essentially fell for her at first sight and thinks she's the most beautiful woman on the planet must've been incredibly awkward and/or confusing for her.
The character just had taste in men that was informed from her position as a highborn lady, and her personal desire to be a knight.
The two she crushed on in the show were Renly and Jaime. Both highborn and knights.
In the books she had a number of betrothals which never worked out, the last one because they demanded he would only marry a woman who acts like a woman (which she said she would only accept from a man who could beat her in combat. The suitor ended up with 3 broken bones)
Tormond would have been perfect for her if she had seen him as a suitable partner. However I don't think she ever got over the fact he was a wildling and uncouth. Let alone the uncomfortableness from having someone openly desire her, when all she had previously known was unrequited crushes (with one exception) and arranged betrothals. Tormond was not the type of partner she had grown up thinking about. Maybe given more time she would (books: will?) come around.
I’ve never met a 6’5” woman before. I just did some quick math and you’re 1 in 9.7 million, meaning there’s only about 40 women in the US as tall as you! you and your husband should make more monsters!
And it was originally created wholecloth in editing. That scene where she leads Sansa into castle black and had a look of disgust after seeing Tormund wasn't in the script and the takes weren't connected in anyway.
In all fairness, the show Breanne is an absolute knockout. It's the one thing the actress did wrong is be so attractive. Breanne is not supposed to be a looker by any means, and Gwendolines' natural beauty was impossible to hide.
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u/Victorian97 14d ago
Tormund’s admiration for Brienne was hilarious and kind of adorable