r/Cascadia • u/Derek_Zahav • 6d ago
BLM rushes review of Oregon lithium project following Trump’s executive order
https://www.opb.org/article/2025/03/26/blm-rushes-review-oregon-lithium-mine/24
u/MauPow 5d ago
I just don't trust anything trump does.
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u/Derek_Zahav 5d ago
Exactly, and this short turnaround for public comment is highly suspicious
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
An almost identical project a few miles away was approved a few years ago. What new could possibly come up in public comment that could stop this exploratory search?
This is just procedural fetishism. It's the same mentality that has killed high speed rail in California and created the housing crisis, obsession with paperwork instead of building.
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u/fazedncrazed 5d ago
The high speed isnterstate rail project was killed by a musk scam:
https://www.fresnobee.com/opinion/editorials/article264451076.html
And we dont have the high density housing needed to address the shortage bc our politicians would rather sell off protected wetlands to suburban tract home developers to make houses on spec to sell to investors (and remain empty bc their value is as an investment vehicle and lowering rents to affordable rates would decrease their market value):
Both examples were caused by greedy oligarchs (and their proxies) going outside of the established procedures and rushing things through. The problems dont exist because of an "obsession with paperwork".
As for what could come up: idk, which is why a proper environmental review is needed. Yes, its near to another approved project, so what? Being "near to "is not the same as being "the same as". Being near to the shore is not the same thing as being on the shore to a drowning man. There may be rare species or other concerns at the new site that need to be considered, but we dont have any way of knowing without a proper review first.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
high speed isnterstate rail project was killed by a musk scam:
You're just going to ignore the 10+ years of zero construction even before Mush tried to get involved. Trying to blame Musk for the horrific stalls in the project is embarrassing.
politicians would rather sell off protected wetlands to suburban tract home developers to make houses on spec to sell to investors
No law was passed or even introduced. It was an advisory board statement. Nothing came of this. And what Kotek has been doing is pushing bills to increase urban density.
So neither of the things you're saying actually happened.
There may be rare species or other concerns at the new site that need to be considered
These are exploratory drills with low footprints, not full open pit mines. Their impact on habitat is minimal.
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u/fazedncrazed 5d ago
Yes, it takes time to buy the needed land and make construction plans. Its a huge engineering project covering hundreds of miles of construction. A decade is about right to figure it all out, hell thats lightning fast relatively speaking. It was ready to go, ground was breaking soon, when musk swooped in and stole all the funding in order to protect his car company.
And yes, kotek would rather try to propose predatory, universally hated, bills that sell out our protected land than anything that would actually help or even pass. Im glad you agree.
As for that nonsense about drilling; you know these arent oil wells that are happening, right? Its lithium mines. They are indeed open pits at the surface and they create a lot of toxic runoff.
And even if it was "just some drilling", that is quite disruptive too and the impact still needs to be reviewed.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago edited 5d ago
. It was ready to go, ground was breaking soon, when musk swooped in and stole all the funding in order to protect his car company.
Not even remotely true. That hadn't even started eminent domain on land outside the central valley, let alone construction.
And no, if you look at anywhere in Europe or Asia, it doesn't take a decade before construction even starts on high speed rail. You're embracing mediocrity.
And yes, kotek would rather try to propose predatory, universally hated, bills that sell out our protected land
It was at most 500 acres of ordinary farmland so thousands, of not tens of thousands of jobs could be made at a fab. The bills got bipartisan support. It wasn't "universally hated."
SB 4 (2023) passed 44-10 in the state house. The state Senate 22-7.
You either don't know what you're talking about or get off to lying.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
The first mining permit in the caldera was issued by the Biden administration.
This isn't really any different.
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u/fazedncrazed 5d ago
Youre right, dude is very hypocritical for only being concerned when the other team does it.
Im sure Im in the minority here; but I think bad things are bad even when the team Ive been told is "mine" does them. Controversial, I know, but I was pissed when kotek demolished the UGB to sell protected land to the worlds worst polluters under bidens chips act, even though Im on the left and the dems are supposedly "my team" (gag), and Im equally pissed theyre gonna be doing the same now under trump (also gag).
Fucking hypocrites, everyone, left and right. Thats why we are in this mess. And I dont wanna hear "boo" or the inevitable "I had to bc..." from anyone who voted for either one of the rapist presidents; Imma ignore you bc you voted for a rapist and have thus disqualified yourself from any moral or political discussion.
If this describes anyone out there reading this; you dont have to admit you were wrong, you just have to admit you were lied to, then stop listening to the ones who lied to you. Thats the only way things will stop getting worse.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
when kotek demolished the UGB to sell protected land to the worlds worst polluters under bidens chips act,
She passed a bill to allow limited expansion into farmland IF a chip fan decided to move to the area. Then none did and the temporary authority expired. So Kotek literally didn't do that.
In any regards, I don't see how industrial agriculture, pouring fertilizer on land and tilling it is somehow seen as healthier than putting on a large factory that generates far more economic activity and wealth per square foot.
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u/DocDefilade 4d ago
That's great advice for the last 10 years. Don't trust anything from any people that are close to him either.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 6d ago
Good?
Like, Cascadia's power is in its utilization and conservation of its natural resources. Power from Columbia Gorge Wind, power and heat from the Cascade volcanoes, power from Columbia River water, fiber production from the forests...
This mine is in relatively ecologically insignificant sagebrush. It's easy to be a NIMBY, but I'd rather have resources mined in a nation with good environmental remediation and environmental/safety standards and heavy automation of dangerous work instead of rely on developing nations to poison and kill their people to provide raw materials to the developed world.
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u/WritingMysterious507 5d ago
The issue I'm having is the probing rights are for an Australian company, meaning any potential mines would be held by an Australian company, so really how much of that economic boon would be headed back to Oregonians? Like, if it's on public land, it's shady AF to be giving rights to an Australian company, especially when that lithium is just going to be sold to tech companies outside of Oregon.
And, just because it's in an ecologically insignificant caldera NOW, any potential lithium mines could create currently-non existent issues. Like the cost/benefits for Oregonians specifically are not there for me to like, happily agree to this.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
so really how much of that economic boon would be headed back to Oregonians?
Most? Mines operate an entire extremely low profit margin. The spending for extraction goes towards local contractors that service machinery, run the machines, ship the goods, engage in compliance, that can't all be done remotely.
if it's on public land, it's shady AF to be giving rights to an Australian company
Xenophobia against Australia, a country with better corporate disclosures than us?
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u/WritingMysterious507 5d ago
Again, since the permission is just for scoping right now, there is literally NO available breakdown of economic projection of a mine.
And, the point being that if we are going to do something potentially ecologically disastrous, since lithium mines are notoriously horrible, absolutely I think that bulk profit should go to Oregonians, and not an overseas company. Wanting local profit for local resources is not xenophobia, are you kidding? W the people should own the means of production on our own public lands, not a foreign company at the behest of a hostile president who is dismantling environmental protections.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
permission is just for scoping right now,
So what's wrong with a short comment process? It's a much lower impact that the mine immediately due South?
absolutely I think that bulk profit should go to Oregonians, and not an overseas company.
Again, most gross revenue is reinvested back in the local economy as the locals do the work, service the equipment, ship the goods. Profits are relatively small and being upset about a single digit profit going overseas is wildly zero-sum. And even if the girl was an Oregon firm, the "profits" would go to...investors, who would be out of state.
Congratulations you revealing that you fall for news story scare quotes about foreign companies.
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u/WritingMysterious507 5d ago
Show me the numbers. Seriously, what's your background in this? I have a degree in statistics, so I can follow.
I am not sorry that I would much rather have Oregonian citizens reap the rewards of those valuable resources from Oregonian soil lol.
Lithium is a non-renewable resource, and is increasingly in demand. Having lithium is a powerful thing, and would be a great bargaining chip for Oregon.
I literally have no issue with foreign companies; I just believe workers should own their own rights to production, especially if Cascadia were to move towards becoming independent -- we should be in control of our valuable tech resources.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
Oregonian citizens reap the rewards of those valuable resources from Oregonian soil lol.
Blood and soil nationalism but woke, it seems
The average profit of mining firms was 7% in 2024.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/208725/net-profit-margin-of-the-top-mining-companies/
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u/WritingMysterious507 5d ago
No specifically of lithium, which is an increasingly valuable finite resource.
You're in the Cascadia sub - of course I am going to be for Cascadian self-reliance, da fuck?
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
of course I am going to be for Cascadian self-reliance
Right, and you understand that an operational mine in Cascadia brings more self sufficiency than no mine at all.
Ownership structures are just paperwork. The question is whether the mine should exist or not. You seem to be in the "no" camp, finding bullshit paperwork reasons to justify it.
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u/WritingMysterious507 5d ago
I said nothing of the sort. If you read my original comment, I'm saying I haven't seen anything yet to see that it's worth it. You linking me Statistico exceedingly overview data of general mining profits (lol) is not substantial correlated proof of economic success for a local community. In fact, the history of mining towns and subsequent economic growth in the PNW specifically is NOT good.
Y'all say jobs are jobs, but that's not necessarily true when there is no guarantee that the net gain will be very much at all, given the necessity to build accomodating infrastructure, contain potential biohazards, and so forth. Are we ensuring miners are making a living wage that can actually be spent back in the community? Will the miners have access to healthcare for dangerous work in an isolated area? Is there a CEO cap? Does the larger general Oregonian public see any of the profit from our lands? These are all things that obviously haven't been addressed since there is not yet a proposal for a mine, and you have been unable to show me net gains for communities in areas with lithium mines. Thus, your claims are baseless.
So yes, I am in the "no" camp of mining away our finite resources that will be crucial for tech development in the years to come.
Having valuable resources to use as bargaining and trading chips is essential.
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u/kiwikoi Washington 5d ago
Yeah, the US doesn’t have high remediation standards… (I work in mine remediation and rehabilitation)
And the EPA who looks after the only significant bits (clean air/clean water acts) that apply to hard rock mining… well they’re having a rough go
there is of course state and municipal level regulation on all this stuff
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
Yeah, the US doesn’t have high remediation standards… (I work in mine remediation and rehabilitation)
We're comparing ourselves to Bolivia, China, and Indonesia.
The US has its issues but we're miles ahead of middle income nations, let alone less developed nations.
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u/kiwikoi Washington 5d ago
Ok that’s fair, but I still think it worth pointing out that our standards when you look at peer nations in the EU, or Canada and Australia, are in dire need of reform and acting like we’re on the same level just lets mining companies get away with some pretty damaging things
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u/misanthpope 5d ago
The US does its fair share of poisoning and killing people, especially indigenous and poor. I'm not against having lithium mines in Oregon if it saves people elsewhere, but I'm not sure it'll do that. Exxon valdez didn't exactly cut back on oil production abroad.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
Exxon valdez didn't exactly cut back on oil production abroad.
That spill was over 35 years ago. Find a new Boogeyman.
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u/misanthpope 5d ago
umm.. are you saying the US was undeveloped 35 years ago? Lmao.
Fine, surely you've heard of the deepwater horizon spill, right? Did that decrease oil drilling across the world?
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u/DreadGrunt Washington 6d ago edited 6d ago
Can't find much reason to oppose this tbh. As long as local environmental standards are upheld, more resources being produced here can only be a good thing, especially if you're of a secessionist bent and value that as a goal long-term.
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u/WritingMysterious507 5d ago
It's more of WHO is going to economically benefit, because it won't be Oregonians: "The Trump administration appears to be fast-tracking an Australian company’s lithium project in southeastern Oregon."
This is just to probe for potential mines, which are environmentally disastrous. So while there may not be a mine YET, why are we giving an Australian private company access to Oregonian public land? Surely that lithium is being sold to tech companies, and again, Oregonians won't benefit.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
Mining companies notoriously have tiny profit margins. Most of the revenue from the mines would go towards operational costs, which are local.
And let's not pretend you would be fine with a Portland company doing this.
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u/DreadGrunt Washington 5d ago
t's more of WHO is going to economically benefit, because it won't be Oregonians:
I disagree. Mines are heavily reliant on local workers, local transporters, the lithium will likely be shipped from ports in the PNW, etc etc, there's a lot of interconnectivity with the local economy. Certainly, I have concerns about potential environmental impacts, but with our local legislation on the matter it could hardly be worse than if it was a mine in Bolivia or China.
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u/WritingMysterious507 5d ago
You say that, but they are gutting environmental protections left and right. And, you really think the bulk of the profit would go back to Oregon? If that WERE the case, why is a foreign company even interested in mining there?
The way this was rushed is suspicious, especially because private companies are not held to the same standard of transparency and accountability. Corporations seemingly have more rights than some American citizens nowadays.
It's similar to what's happening in Portland - A deal with the private electric company was shadily pushed through quickly and quietly to cut down acres of Forest Park, and because it's a private company using public land, we don't get like any say over it other than to heavily question who in government made that exceedingly unpopular deal. Like, once it passes, it's out of our hands for accountability.
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u/DreadGrunt Washington 5d ago
You say that, but they are gutting environmental protections left and right.
Washington and Oregon have state level environmental protections that far exceed anything the federal government has, and the GOP simply cannot touch those.
And, you really think the bulk of the profit would go back to Oregon?
The bulk? Perhaps not, but it's not like it's going to hurt the local economy either. More money flowing in and out is a good thing. Especially when you're like me and are an active believer in independence for the PNW.
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u/WritingMysterious507 5d ago
The bulk? Perhaps not, but it's not like it's going to hurt the local economy either. More money flowing in and out is a good thing. Especially when you're like me and are an active believer in independence for the PNW.
...Which is why we shouldn't be giving away rights to a non-renewable but crucial resource for technology to a private overseas company from our PUBLIC lands.
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u/DreadGrunt Washington 5d ago
Oh don't get me wrong I would massively prefer a local company be the one to exploit the resources, but given it's an Australian company I'm also not going to be up in arms over it compared to how I would feel with some others. Any hypothetical Cascadian nation would be primed to be partners with Pacific nations like Australia and we'd inevitably have close economic ties.
Plus, as others have mentioned, this isn't really actually a Trump move, it was first set up and organized under Biden.
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u/AdvancedInstruction 5d ago
The number of people who oppose economic growth but want secession is worringly high.
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u/DreadGrunt Washington 5d ago
I don't think most of those people are actually serious about the idea and are just floating it as a reactionary response to ongoing events.
I first became familiar with the Cascadia idea during high school a bit over a decade ago and was intrigued but never really committed much to it, but the past couple years have drawn me back and I am quickly finding myself becoming an ideological secessionist. Bioregionalism is fine and all, but to me personally, Cascadia is quickly becoming first and foremost a political idea and project than anything else. And if someone finds themselves in that camp, then pondering the economic future and prospects of an independent PNW is a very important thing.
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u/russellmzauner 6d ago
I've started working on a digest of vectors and locations impacted so people can have a visualization of how all these influences are going to map against, well, their lives.
No promises and it's going to take a a lot of hours/work for anyone to do it. I want it for myself but I'm also working on it by myself rn.