r/ContraPoints • u/FlashInGotham • 4d ago
The Eras of ContraPoints
I saw someone doing this on one of my other YouTuber subs and thought it would be a fun, low pressure, question/game to play over here. What do you think of as the definitive era's of ContraPoints. Use whatever metric you choose...production style, choice of topic, where you were in your life when the video came out. I'm posting my breakdown in this post but I'm more interested in hearing yours than arguing over mine.
ERA 1: Dialectical Discourse: A focus on economic and social topics through a Marxist frame. Often employed multiple characters engaged in faux dialogue What's Wrong With Capitalism (Part 1) thru Freedom of Speech
Era 2: Gender and The Alt Right: The "deprogramming Incels" era which also coincides with Natalie's social/public transition. Rather than alternating between topics she often found ways for one topic to comment on the other. Probably its most fulsome expression of this being "The Darkness" (a personal favorite of mine). What is Gender? / The Alt-Right thru Are Traps Gay?
Era 3: Socratic Sentiments: Nat turns away from Marxist historiography and starts relying on Socratic interrogation of largely unexamined facets of American culture/psyche. Beauty thru Opulence (also includes Envy and Shame)
Era 4: I Am Become 'The Story', Destroyer of Worlds. Co-occurs with the second half of Socratic Sentiments. Nat herself has become the story and the focus of para-social fascination. Somewhat of a return to form of the "Gender and Alt Right" days as they involve deep dives into internet cultures. Canceling and Cringe but also The Hunger and Voting.
Era 5: Big Topics, Even Bigger Videos. A return to her fascination with the right wing, now focusing on topics a bit more discreet than, like, all of capitalism. Long form videos with high production values. Still favoring the Socratic method. Both JK Rowling Videos, Twilight, and Conspiracy.
Your thoughts?
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u/pejofar 4d ago
That's very interesting! It makes a lot of sense.
I've tried to make something similar but chronologically, and I feel the 3 main turning points are, for now, Incels, Canceling and Twilight.
"Incels" spread more of her content and then I think the content has more of a broad public in mind, trying to reach across.
"Canceling" was obviously very rough and after that the content is way more unapologetic.
"Twilight" opened this amazing deep and long dives with rare insights.
Visually I feel a big turning point in "The Darkness" which is amazing, and it just gets better.
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u/Reasonable_Problem88 4d ago
Era 3… So many highlights. The opulent visuals of opulence. The intense vulnerability of shame. These videos were refreshing for my soul. I love all the eras, but this era is what I think of first when I think of “contrapoints video”… Definitely expanded my perspective on the American psyche and was a personal dive point into embracing self-reflection.
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u/queerbodies 4d ago
Finally the fan theorizing I'm here for
In terms of topics, I would say
1) capitalism is bad and more leftist stuff. more prone to marxist analysis 2) thinking on gender. 3) more deep dives videos with increasing taste for psychoanalysis\psychology
And in terms of style, I would say something like
a) the earlier videos b) from "Jordan Peterson" (I think, first to have different settings\costumes) to "Men" included. This segment also includes all her dialogues video c) Opulence onwards ("The Hunger" is an outsider though and a return to the fictional dialogue)
At this rate, in a few years we get a 5h-long video of full Bible analysis by psychoanalytic theory (well, what remains to be commented upon after "Twiligh")
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u/FlashInGotham 4d ago
I think the turn to psychoanalysis is a good catch. It wasn't very prominent in her earlier works from what I remember (I'm not gonna pretend I did a full lit review for a post I made on lark during a slow morning at work) It forms the basis of the more personal works (Beauty, Shame for example) but also informs the Society Wide deep dives on big topics (Envy, Opulence). And I suppose I would also say the most recent era synthesizes all these frames.
In fact the two most recent videos (Twilight, Conspiracies) really focus extensively on what psychological needs and wants these types of narratives fulfill for their consumers. The JK videos hypothesize on how JK's individual psychology is being (dis)served by TERFism.
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u/Aescgabaet1066 3d ago
Are you also a Todd in the Shadows fan, by chance? :)
Anyway, I think this is a pretty accurate summation of her "eras," though I'd personally quibble with some of the details and would maybe take a broader view with fewer eras. But overall yeah, I think your view is a good one.
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u/FlashInGotham 3d ago
You see right thru me. Todd is a rock solid ally and his James Somerton video shows it. His sub generally has very respectful music discussions (even if I do get downvoted for my intense dislike of Chappel Roan occasionally)
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u/Aescgabaet1066 2d ago
Intense dislike of Chappell Roan? Well, let's agree to disagree on that one :) And agree to agree on the rest.
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u/Megalol64 3d ago
Five eras are too numerous for a youtube career that has lasted barely a decade, give or take. And to define her content from video to video suggests there a common throughline between the videos in the same era, when that's not exactly true. It's too rigid, and like gender, more fluid. I argue we should use a historians approach and define her content by significant events in her channels history. Namely, Pre-Transition, Post Transition, Tangents.
I'm not going to make this a whole big post, (but I can if anyone asks for it, I'm just going to give my surface level thoughts right now as a justification for my choice.)
Pre-Transitiom should be obvious, as it entails the beginning of her channel, and at some point, she transitioned, which is when the era would end. Natalie has used several words to describe her Pre transition videos, like:
Alcoholism Edge Lord Comedy Trying not to transition New wave atheism Anything you remember that I can't recall atm.
Idk when she officially began to transition, but it was around the time she released the video gender dysphoria.
Her Post Transition Videos, I would say, is defined by the "converting the alt right" narrative that was so popular online in online news articles. Her corporate era, where he channel grew the most. She was posting very frequently, and most of her audience came from this time in her career. As she began tackling more abstract concepts, the alt right conversion narrative began to be left behind.
Which is where the tangent era comes in. Natalie does a lot of reading, and some abstract concepts aren't worth her time to devote to a full-length video. As her videos get bigger, her production is shorter, she makes tangents for patreon members and later incorporates these ideas into full-length channel videos. The first true video from this era i would say is Twilight, as opposed to the witch trials of jk Rowling.
What do you all think?
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u/FlashInGotham 2d ago
I don't necessarily disagree but will say that I personally chose not to separate eras by transition for several reasons.
1) I am naught but a middle aged cis fauggette. All I know about such things are what empathy and listening have taught me.
2) What empathy and listening have taught me is that transitioning is a spectrum (HA!) rather than linear process. While I can pinpoint when she decided to present publicly (in her videos, at least) as Natalie I can't pretend that gives me any particular insight how long stuff might have been brewing or how it's affected her since.Like, I only know the simulacrum of Natalie that she presents publicly and I don't feel its my place to delve too deeply into her transition to delineate eras for a reddit post. But I also understand how people with life experiences that more closely parallel hers may have a different perspective. Or they feel her decision to do so publicly and make it a topic of her videos makes it an acceptable marker (again, not my place to decide so I'll politely steer clear). I hope that makes sense.
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u/pikachuthedog 2d ago
okayyy, contrapoints historians. love it, been thinking about this for some time and glad im not the only one.
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u/Doobledorf 4d ago
Been here since the beginning, so I think of it in broader terms, I think.
Era 1: Femmeboy, alcoholic 4chan edgelord making hour long philosophical rants that pushed against the bullshit that was beginning to really proliferate in 4chan. This stuff was very specific to 4chan norms and language, and it was pretty clear what online spaces she was in at the time. I love this era, personally, because I was also a young queer 4channer. There were a lot of drunken rants sitting at a kitchen table or in the bathtub. (Both of which she recreated in her video about being cancelled)
Era 2: Early transition era, where she focused more specifically on deradicalizing people. The "Are Traps Gay?" Era, where she still utilized shit posting 4chan language, but took it seriously and targeted the problems it represented. She pulled folks in with a topic name "for the lulz", and then addressed the issue with wit. This was the first Trump administration and her rise to fame in a broader context
Era 3:
Post COVID. She's focusing more on things that are important to her, taking more time with videos, and taking a step back from the online attention she got in the previous era. Sometimes political, sometimes social commentary, sometimes media critique, and often a mix of all 3. Also, I feel this era is defined by her having a more clear understanding of who she is as a queer woman, with more videos specifically on those topics from a more personal angle. I guess generally this later videos feel more personal.