r/DIY 1d ago

home improvement Shower leaking into next room

In November, I had cracked grout going around the base perimeter of my shower. I removed the grout, and replaced it with this sealant. Now I noticed that the water is leaking into the floor of my closet that is on the other side of the closet. What did I do wrong?

156 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

492

u/ARenovator 1d ago

You, personally, did nothing wrong.

However, you've been royally screwed by the builder, apparently. Modern shower building requires that a waterproof membrane or box be created before the tile gets laid.

When you get a leak (not if), the water is contained within the waterproof enclosure and should get directed towards the drain.

Seems they may have skipped that step when creating your shower.

212

u/pea_eschew_stew_dent 1d ago

This is it. Tile isn't waterproofing. Grout and tile both are porous and allow water through.

So the only way to salvage this would be to do some sort of waterproof coating on top. The right answer is a redo with waterproofing underneath.

48

u/Jaysonmclovin 1d ago

Plumbing code requires a pan test. Unfortunately, it's not always enforced. The result is that tile guys install showers without a proper pan and you see what the result of that is now.

9

u/mediocre_remnants 12h ago

I was redoing the bathroom in my old house, built in 1970, and the floor under the shower was completely rotten. I first noticed it from the basement.

When I was demo'ing the shower, I found out that the original lead shower pan had a huge gouge in it and leaked onto the subfloor over a period of 40 years. When I got all of the tile off of the shower and floor, the subfloor was soft enough that I could poke my finger through it. I have no idea how the whole shower didn't just drop into the basement. I even had to replace/sister some of the joists.

7

u/Neolithic_mtbr 1d ago

Jump straight on the builder when they removed the grout themself? And it presumably wasn’t leaking before that? Sounds like the OP damaged the membrane. Though it should have been caulked from the start

6

u/FistfullOfOwls 23h ago

Yeah my thoughts too.

Would be extremely easy to damage the membrane removing grout.

14

u/Spoona1983 1d ago

He removed cracked grout. That's a sign of a problem. The builder should have caulked it at the start. So jumping on the builder isn't unreasonable in this case.

The fact that it is leaking from the wall and floor joint is a huge problem as that likely means there is likely no continuous waterproofing membrane 6 inches up the side of the wall. So the builder definitely screwed up.

Op is gonna have an expensive tear out and redo in his future.

9

u/DukeofVermont 1d ago

Yes but I think they were implying they accidentally cut the membrane when they removed the cracked grout.

11

u/carson4you 1d ago

Yes grout or caulk originally, if the only thing stopping water from escaping was 20-40 mils of RedGuard, that could easily have be torn through with a grinder/blade during the removal of the original grout.

1

u/PrudentPush8309 11h ago

U/ARenovator speaks the truth.

So many people incorrectly believe that ceramic tile is waterproof. It is not. Some individual tiles may be waterproof, such as glazed ceramic tile and some porcelain tiles, but those tiles have joints. Those joints are absolutely not waterproof.

If you want ceramic tile in your shower then you need a waterproof pan between the ceramic tile and the floor substructure. The pan needs to turn up the walls at least a few inches, and it needs to be properly connected to the shower drain assembly.

I'm not your daddy so I can't tell you how to live your life, but if you don't do it right then it is going to leak at some point. The only exception to this rule is if you never let any water into the shower.

And while I'm on the subject, if you want your shower walls to last then put some plastic sheeting on the studs, make sure that the plastic sheeting laps over the shower pan on the drain side, and then either go old school and add lath and mortar and "thickset" the tile, or put cement backer board over the plastic and "thinset" the tile.

Or, alternatively, just use whatever other method you want to cheap out with, plywood or gypsum board or green gypsum board or magic fairy dust board or whatever, and then you can redo your shower and substructure in a few years. I mean, this does give you the opportunity to try to fix the plumbing and framing and color choice errors you made before.

Whatever you want to do, I don't care, it's your house.

Source: 20 years experience working for and eventually managing one of the oldest and largest ceramic tile dealers in Texas.

81

u/The_Mrs_Jones 1d ago

We had this same problem and had to rip out the entire shower to have the pan rebuilt and proper water barrier installed.

55

u/LyGmode 1d ago

open up drywall on the other side and try to confirm the source of the leak, though it seems likely from the shower pan. If its from a leaking pipe that would be best case.

24

u/middleofthemap 1d ago

This. It could be a pipe in the wall with a bad connection not the shower floor itself.

11

u/YesNoMaybeTho 1d ago

If it wasn't leaking prior to your grout replacement then you pierce a hole or slit in the waterproofing. You can't try to dig it all out and put a sealant like kerdi fix but likely you need to test it out and replace.

18

u/Medium_Spare_8982 1d ago

Tile and/or grout is NOT waterproof. Silicone caulk is more to make it look pretty than anything.

If your shower leaks, your shower leaks and caulking won’t fix that.

It has to be ripped out and done properly.

2

u/BeetrootPoop 23h ago

Yeah I just had to have two bathrooms replaced for the exact same reason as OP. The previous owner tiled straight onto regular drywall with no waterproof membrane. We noticed it when the laminate flooring in the bedroom next door failed with water damage from the shower.

23

u/KRed75 1d ago

Most likely, you damaged the shower liner that's behind the tile. Grout isn't water tight.

5

u/ImaginaryBluejay0 1d ago

Right? People blaming the contractor here is wild. The owner ruined the liner when removing the grout. It wasn't leaking until then. It was a $10k mistake. Sucks but it happens.

3

u/the-awesomer 1d ago

Unless it was leaking elsewhere unnoticed

5

u/ImaginaryBluejay0 20h ago

Shower was 19 years old they'd have noticed it leaking years ago. It's not a coincidence they noticed it leaking a few months after chunking out the grout. 

Just an expensive mistake they won't make again. Sucks.

2

u/the-awesomer 19h ago

You are probably right, but there is still chance the path of least resistant thru the cracked grout meant water was going down and now that they replaced with silicone sealent that path is no longer available so more water is wicking/leaking out a new area.

But not that it really matters now, replacing pan is pretty much only solution forward.

1

u/thefamilyjewel 19h ago

I can't imagine they'd dig deep enough while removing grout in the corners to penetrate whatever water proofing is there. They only have to get the grout to the surface of the tile to silicone the corners.

1

u/StevieG123 6h ago

I used a grout removing tool and a grout file. Where I removed the grout, there was only tile on the other side. I didn’t see any liner.

1

u/hexnone2 1d ago

3

u/ImaginaryBluejay0 1d ago

 In theory yeah it could be patched with rubber glue and something akin to a tire patch. You'd need access to it and the area around it large enough to patch, so you're already taking off tiles. Any time you take off tiles you risk damaging the waterproofing (not shown in your photo) which is painted on prior to tiling.

So you need to find the exact spot of the leak, remove just enough tiles to patch the membrane while not damaging the rest of the waterproofing, then re-tile and re-caulk and hope to hell you didn't just waste two weekends on something that's untested and may not even work. 

On addition to the above if you damaged the membrane one spot you might have damaged it in more than one spot - so you could have multiple leaks that you're going to patch unpermitted with unproven patching.

If I had no money at all maybe I'd try it. But on a budget you could also remove all the tile and redo the waterproofing and membrane and tile yourself without spending so much. 

1

u/Busy-Cat-5968 1d ago

You need the walls sealed with a rubber membrane on durarock before tiling.

1

u/StevieG123 1d ago

I didn’t see any liner when I was removing the grout. In the cavity it just looked like more tile.

2

u/Ihavenoidea84 1d ago

What did you use?

5

u/StevieG123 1d ago

Grout file and the triangle grout removal tool

1

u/Ihavenoidea84 1d ago

Pretty hard to get to the longer past the tile...

8

u/Far-Bill-7593 23h ago

I don't understand how everyone in this post is so wrong.

I'm not going to say that there is no waterproofing, there definitely isn't.

It seems to me everyone has overlooked an extremely common problem, all inside corners need to be silicone caulk, not grout. If you look closely at the pictures the inside corners at the bottom of the shower are already missing grout, and that is where the water intrusion is coming from. Same like the part that OP correctly identified and caulked.

Tile expands and contracts with temperature changes and needs space to do so.

Grout and tile aren't 100% waterproof. They are 99% water proof (99.5 with grout seal), which is why red guard, Kerdi Board and even cement board with chemically joined PVC for walls are up to code. A shower without a vapor/ moisture barrier won't show visible signs of water damage for many years, if ever. It will however slowly rot the framing behind and under the shower until the entire shower and adjoining rooms are compromised.

2

u/StevieG123 23h ago

Do I need to use a different sealant than the one in the picture?

3

u/Far-Bill-7593 23h ago

https://imgur.com/a/eMYkMGm

I'm not going to discount the fact the shower is almost certainly a gut job with hidden water damage - it almost certainly is. There probably isn't the correct vapor/ moisture barrier installed as well. Caulking all of the inside corners (even over the grout for short term) will help you save a little bit before trying to take on or hire out the job.

Am I correct in seeing that grout is missing from the vertical inside corners?

1

u/StevieG123 23h ago

Grout is there, just cracked. That’s what the base looked like before I removed the grout and applied the sealant.

7

u/Far-Bill-7593 22h ago

Even if you had no membrane, or pierced the redguard while removing the old grout, it still doesn't explain the large amount of water coming through to the closet on the reverse room. Do yourself a favor and remove the damaged drywall. Then caulk all inside corners. I wouldn't even worry about removing the grout. The loose/ cracked/ damaged grout is most likely suspect and needs to be fixed asap.

Take a close look and pictures behind the drywall and set up a fan to try and dry it out. I don't know if it's your sole bathroom in the house, but it will likely need to be replaced. If you're in the VA area I'd be more than happy to take a look and refer you to any of the plumbers/ tile workers I happen across at work.

What I don't understand about this post is how everyone jumped on the waterproof membrane without seeing what I see. There are three main posts on /diy. "Is this load bearing" (consult a structural engineer) "Is this asbestos?" (Probably, send it for tests, cover it and stop ripping it out) "Why is my grout cracking" (cause it's and inside corner and shower/ bath tiles expand and contract) I see that your inside corners are grout, and they are failing. You were smart enough to remove and caulk the inside corners at the floor level, but damage has been done, and all inside corners need caulk. (I highlighted in blue the one that looks sus to me).

I'm sure my post won't be highest, but I've seen this many times, and I've been through it myself... But never trust a Redditor and feel free to get a second opinion.

2

u/StevieG123 22h ago

Thank you so much for the advice. Truly grateful.

The amount of water that got into the closet isn’t a huge amount. Almost as if you left a wet towel on the ground. There’s no signs of damage to the drywall(to my knowledge). So stains, discoloration, or it feeling spongy.

We have a second bathroom that doesn’t get used, so we are using that shower in the meantime.

For now I think the plan is to wait a week and see if the moisture goes away, if it does then I think that narrows it down to either the suggested issue at hand, or possibly some issues with the drain itself. After that I’ll remove the old sealant, and put in a bunch of new stuff. Depending how that goes I’ll open up the drywall on the other side and see exactly where the water is coming in.

3

u/koozy407 17h ago

If it’s leaking through the wall you need to rip your shower out and start over there’s no amount of silicone or caulk or grout or anything else that is going to fix this

4

u/takeyourtime123 1d ago

So you worked on it and then it started leaking?

6

u/Endersgame485 1d ago

My guess is in the grout removal they may have sliced waterproofing membrane

1

u/takeyourtime123 22h ago

My thoughts too. Not an easy fix.

2

u/Busy-Cat-5968 1d ago

Sorry man. You got a tear it all out. There's obviously no membrane, and the cheap floor on the wall tile confirms the shitty build attitude.

2

u/theImplication69 1d ago

Do you know if it’s from the tile or from the pipes? I’d check the pipes first.

When my shower was leaking I covered up parts of the wall and sprayed water around. That let me find which area was leaking, luckily it was a grout issue I could fix easily (the walls were not waterproofed, but at least it’s fixed until I can replace it)

1

u/StevieG123 1d ago

I was just assuming it was from the tiles, just because the length of the wall on the other side is wet.

I do think cutting into the dry wall to investigate is my best bet for now.

2

u/gwbirk 1d ago

I still don’t understand why people still don’t understand how to waterproof a shower . It’s so easy now days to do it right by using a quality shower kit like Schluter and you don’t ever have to worry about this problem

2

u/forcherico-pedeorcu 15h ago

You guys are always making this waaaay more dramatic than it needs to be.

Look at the third image — on the vertical line in the corner, there’s a crack. That’s the problem.

There’s no water barrier under the tiles? Yeah, that’s not ideal… But at this point, I’d personally just fill the crack with silicone (clear silicone looks better there), and maybe open up the wall in the other room to install a small vent or something — just to help with air circulation, just in case.

Either way, you’ve got to let the inside of the wall dry out properly.

1

u/Overther 1d ago

Had the same issue. The problem for us was the drain screw being loose, creating a space between the pipe underneath water could escape. But we had a ceramic floor for the shower. I think the other replies saying the tiles are just letting water through are more likely to be correct...

1

u/rizzyrogues 1d ago

How old is this shower?

1

u/StevieG123 1d ago

19 years old

1

u/onehalfnavajo 1d ago

Mold for sure, you need to rip it open and redo the shower…

1

u/NightOwlApothecary 1d ago

If the leak is opposite the valve body, pull off the escutcheon plate and check for any gaps. Since it’s leaking into hopefully the back of the closet, if that doesn’t help, check out the largest access panel in a big box store, and cut out the Sheetrock appropriately. Non destructive and you know what is going on in the wall. Too many variables unless you poke inside the wall. Too many horror stories including my own. You did not state if it’s new construction, a remodel, renovation. Again too many variables unless you take a peek inside the wall. Repost when we can be of help.

1

u/Archanir 1d ago

I sell material to tile and shower installers 5 days a week. I bet whoever slapped this shower together didn't flood test the shower after installing the shower liner and waterproof material. There's no way in this day and age of shower installation material, that shower should be leaking anywhere before 10 to 20 years depending on materials used. You're most likely going to have to gut and replace the shower pan and 3 feet up the wall at a minimum to be able to repair and replace what's defective. It could also be what the plumber did. Maybe something is leaking along the line. Could be the inlets or the outlet. Only thing that's going to explain what is happening is exploration demo.

1

u/ImaginaryBluejay0 20h ago

Pretty good call on your part about 20 years. OP says it's 19 years old upthread. 

Honestly for most of us to assume it's a 1-2 year old job kind of implies it was good work 20 years ago.

It's a gut and replace job now for sure though.

1

u/okieman73 20h ago

I swear a prefabricated pan might be the best way to go when doing a shower. Well made fiberglass can last a very long time but they don't look nearly as nice. We're going to redo a shower before long and I'm not sure which way we will go yet.

1

u/StevieG123 20h ago

Do you do this kind of work?

2

u/okieman73 19h ago

Yes and no. I've done remodeling for a long time but I'm not a tile guy. I've just seen so many problems with shower pans. A fiberglass pan will have its own shortcomings as well but they rarely have a leak that is difficult to find.

2

u/StevieG123 19h ago

I only ask because I’m in Oklahoma, assuming you were from the same place hence your username.

I’m glad to take this on as a project. Never done tile work or anything but I’m glad to learn more from this experience.

1

u/DP23-25 15h ago

I am doing a small shower for the first time and Schluter made the job a lot easier. They have a pre-sloped pan which can be cut to fit. There are plenty of YT videos on how to do it. Will be glad to answer any questions you have.

1

u/DrunkDeku 18h ago

Literally my worst fear for my house.

1

u/Schemen123 17h ago

Lawyer....

I had the same issue and it cost me 2 qm of floor that rotted through right into the room below.

Our solution was to remove the floor completely.. yes.. complete.. build a support frame below the shower fill that up with some gind of granulate .. rebuild the shower completely.. including water proof barrier.

We kept the original tiling and put the waterproof layer on top to reduce costs a bit

Which bzw worked well, not visible from the outside .

1

u/RhettSovalReddit 8h ago

if you have a hillbilly, duct tape solves all problems, kind of mentality like me and you just want it to temporarily stop the leaking yet still look just OK, here's what I would do. Remove the metal drain cover and plug the hole with a rag. From there I would buy the flex seal clear, the one in the paint can. Then I would evenly cover the floor, make sure to get the corners where the wall and floor meet, then go up the wall by the first row of tiles. Test the flex seal to make sure it doesn't look horrible on the tile first. As I said, this is NOT how this should be fixed and the other messages about this being a build issue with the water membrane are correct.

1

u/Jirekianu 1d ago

Nah, the problem here isn't the caulk not being put in properly. This is whoever installed the shower that fucked up. As others have said there's supposed to be a water proof layer/membrane that causes water to be fed to the drain if it somehow gets behind the initial layer of tile/fiberglass.

The reason you're getting this leaking is likely that membrane either not being installed, or poorly installed, and there's potential for something like your shower pan being damaged or improperly installed. Either way. The only way to fix this is going to be to rip out the shower and re-do it.

Otherwise you're just slapping band-aids on an infected puncture wound that will get worse over time.

0

u/That_Jicama2024 1d ago

Sorry to say but your only solution here is to tear out the shower floor and about a foot up the wall. you need to install a waterproof membrane and re-tile.

0

u/Wolseley_Dave 5h ago

That sealant doesn't work in a shower. Read the specs; for use "Around tubs, showers and sinks" not in them. Sadly, I speak from experience. I made this mistake twice.

2

u/StevieG123 5h ago

So would any normal silicone work?

2

u/Wolseley_Dave 4h ago

Yes. I like to use translucent white, or clear. It's a chore, but if you clean out the Custom stuff and use regular silicone, you might just solve the leak without ripping it all out.

I switched to Schlueter coloured silicone because it's rated for inside tubs and showers. I do bathroom renovations for a living.