Obligatory reminder that the chinese peoples Republic is, even though technological advanced, a dictatorship that runs concentration Camps and lets people disappear that disagree with the government
Edit: I find it interesting how many feel the need to say that the USA isn't better.
But If have never said otherwise, both can be true at the same time. The world doesn't work like a game of chess that only has two sides. The fact that one side is bad doesn't make the other good or even less bad
The lightshow keeps the moths away from seeing the real issues underneath the shiny skyscrapers, and for the china defenders saying "BUT AMERICA..." first i'm not american and second every single country has problems, the difference is denying the issues and covering up fckd up shit vs being open and recognizing the problems your country has
Narrative control, selective memory, and media emphasis. Propaganda is not just censorship. In one place, it's government control over headlines; in another, it's corporate media and algorithmic reinforcement of what sells or aligns with national interest. Just because a society is 'open' doesn't mean its public is fully informed."
Both can be true, but you don't get people posting disclaimers on any post US related, of which there are hundreds on reddit daily. I'd love to see both.
Oh, I absolutely do. When I mention, say, that the US is the biggest responsible for climate change, or the millions of deaths they have caused in the 21st century with their bloodthirsty wars, or how the US has the biggest absolute and relative prison population in the world, or how the US recently spread antivaxx propaganda just to gain a reputational advantage, dumb people definitely go "well China XXX", as if it was relevant.
I think it is worth to criticize all governments who are complicit in slavery or genoc*de. US included. Whataboutism doesn’t change the fact both of the referenced governments are doing it.
Yet you don't see it when talking about any other country. There's a clear narrative there.
That being said, I'm not supporting any government or any country with these words, I'm just tired of seeing this every other time. Doesn't mean it's not true either.
Me too. They usually up the soft propaganda when they are up to something. The last time I saw a spike in positive China videos, they hacked the US treasury.
Why are you calling this propaganda? If you saw a post about Paris your mind wouldn’t automatically go there. People on here act like China is synonymous with propaganda
To be fair, the word propaganda doesn't necessarily have to have a negative connotation. Any piece of information made with the intention of making you feel a certain way is propaganda, whether or not that thing is true, or if there is an ulterior motive. There can obviously be malicious propaganda made with the intent to deceive or manipulate, but that isn't always the case. (Although in recent history that has become the default interpretation)
From Wikipedia: Beginning in the twentieth century, the English term propaganda became associated with a manipulative approach, but historically, propaganda had been a neutral descriptive term of any material that promotes certain opinions or ideologies
It’s not pro China, it’s just facts about china. I don’t see what’s wrong with that when posts like this about other places and countries around the world are posted every day. Maybe people are starting to become more interested in China in general which is fine
It’s like seeing some beautiful drone footage of NYC with the Alicia Keys/Jay-Z song in the background and going “don’t forget that America invaded Iraq on a lie”. Like what? Nobody even asked you.
I guess I am. I have read some history on the region. Have you? Uyghurs treated Chinese like expendable lesser beings for centuries. Now that China has grown rich and powerful, the Uyghurs are getting the treatment. I do not condone it. But you can't ignore the history of the region.
A reminder that the American government just recently deported 238 Venezuelans to a prison facility in El Salvador against the federal courts orders. All done without due process. Going against the 5th and 14th amendment which Americans claim to be the foundations of its country.
I think the reason people are saying that is we all doubt you would jump in a post about how America has developed and shit on America about how bad their government is.
A lot of Redditors who are salivating at the idea of a Chinese global hegemony are going to really want the US back once they get a taste of it for a few years.
Must just be a coincidence your brain lines up with state propaganda and ignores that America has had a far more aggressive, destructive and deadly foreign policy than China
They arrested pro Palestinians in America. America is a decoratorship and the whole world sees it but Americans who are brainwashed by the midia that lies about everything.
Could be way worse imo, especially compared to most other developed countries and because of that there’s minimal drug use in the country so I’d definitely wouldn’t call it a atrocity
Okay there is some truth that you said, the hate against China can be too much at times but just because someone is criticizing China doesn't mean they are CIA. It's like saying everyone who is criticizing America is a CCP bot
All this is true about China, but also a reminder that the US does the same thing with our prisons. We have legal slavery still for incarcerated people.
China disappears people in a way that the US doesn't, but the treatment of black people in America is scary close to how Uyghurs are treated.
Of course the entire economy is not, same as it is not in China.
Here is the ACLU page on prison labor in the USA. The TLDR: Nationally, incarcerated workers produce more than $2 billion per year in goods and more than $9 billion per year in services for the maintenance of the prisons, but are paid on average between 13 and 52 cents per hour, with some making nothing.
I couldn't find anything like that on China, so it is most likely worse there, especially considering they have a couple hundred thousand more incarcerated people than the US does.
The ethnicity of political leaders has nothing to do with how a minority group is being treated in a country, specifically in jails.
The point stands that in America, we are overly incarcerating black people and due to provisions in the 13th amendment are using some of them for slave labor. Black people are given disportioncate prison sentences to white counter parts for the same crimes. In fact, this Michigan study from 2014 not only highlights these discrepancies, but references other work that found 1 in 3 black men will be incarcerated at some point in his life.
1 in n 3 black men will be incarcerated at some point in his life.
But life doesn't happen in a vacuum.
It wasn't the 13th amendment, it wasn't whatever perceived traumas you wish to put on these dudes that made them do whatever they did to get locked up.
My friend are you saying there is no racism or systemic failure involved in the fact that such a large proportion of incarcerated people are black?
Every individual is accountable and responsible for their actions, nothing changes that. Additionally, it is important to understand systemic failures or other large-scale issues that create circumstances which breed trauma and bad situations—which do get passed down, and often continue to fester and grow and get worse. People living in such circumstances are exposed to more crime, and become more likely to be involved in it. That doesn’t mean they’re not accountable or responsible for their actions, they are.
But it’s not as simple as your comment seems to be making it out to be.
It isn’t fair or right when people are oppressed, or when the echoes of that oppression continue to reverberate and cause harm. We should have empathy for this and the fact that living in these worlds breeds really shit conditions which breed crime. The crimes are still illegal, and you can have empathy and an understanding of the lack of fairness and systemic failure that contributes to their occurrence.
Black people are not more criminal than white people. There is a reason why such a large percentage of black citizens are incarcerated compared to other races. And that reason is not that they are more criminal. It’s racism and a lot of systemic failures.
Quick Google search found this article from CNN written last April where families say organs of deceased Alabama inmates have been removed without their consent.
Not saying the US is as bad as China is here, but again, its closer than it should be.
You’re shedding good light on something important that should be talked about, but I think comparing it to the treatment of Uyghurs is perhaps not the best comparison, and is causing you to lose people who otherwise would hear your message.
I hear you, but I genuinely think it is more similar than people want to admit and no matter how uncomfortable that fact is, we should address it.
Americans don’t see that we are guilty of many (albeit not all) of the things we accuse some of our adversaries of doing. Best way to help solve an international problem is solve the similar domestic version.
It’s definitely ruffling the feathers of some folks though
That’s fair. I think then that a different introduction would maybe serve the message better. Starting out with the comparison as a statement creates division at the first sentence. But maybe an intro comprised of your response to me would be a good thing to put first? For me personally, it causes me to be curious, whereas I think starting out with the Uyghur comparison made as a factual statement will cause opposition, creating a big barrier that will take more work to come back from in an effort to get them curious instead of combative. Just my thoughts (that you didn’t ask for) on trying to think of the best way to get your message heard so it can be discussed productively.
Honestly I had a combative reaction when I read your original comment at first, but now I am curious. Curiosity doesn’t hurt, I wish more people had it.
Makes sense. This was just tagged onto another thread so started from a comparison that way and honestly wasn’t planning to engage so much with people at first.
Problems of trying to discuss real shit in a Reddit thread I guess but glad it’s at least got you and a hopefully a few others curious
LMAO you provide a link to a hearing to investigate allegations. To date, no international tribunal or neutral investigative body has proven systematic state-run organ harvesting of Uyghurs. This doesn’t mean China is guiltless on human rights and the same international tribunals and neutral investigative bodies have found evidence of forced labor, but there is no real proof that systemic organ harvesting is occurring.
You're comparing unverified allegations to one of the most well-documented atrocities in modern history after the fact. The key difference is that Holocaust denial exists despite mountains of evidence, while the Uyghur organ harvesting claim hinges on lack of conclusive, independently verified evidence. If you're going to assert something that serious, you better come with more than ‘what if.’ Otherwise, you're just using historical trauma to justify spreading unproven claims
Also, for all its flaws, the USA definitely IS better. Anyone who pretends otherwise is a hypocrite because if given the choice, they would never choose to live in China.
As if the US weren't a dictatorship of Capital, always has been. Americans live in the most insane denial lol
The US invaded/attacked more countries in the past 10 hours than China has in the past 10 years. Hell, the US has invaded/attacked more countries int he past 10 years than China has the past 100. None of those attacks/invasions were democratically fueled, but American corporations sure made a KILLING leading into war, during war, and then after - didn't they?
It's clownery of the highest order to ignore the connection between corporate interests and what the nation does in regard to foreign policy. For fuck's sake read any de-classified CIA document. It's not a democracy, and it's not a constitutional republic; it's an oligarchy.
Yeah I have to say that people who never been to China will never understand what it's like.
I saw factories where the workers dorm was just across a parking lot from the main facility, still in the same property. That was the workers life there, they barely leave their districts, since they work and live in the same place.
Lunch break alarm would sound, immediately people just start rushing straight home (across the parking lot).
I bet a lot of them will never actually see the beauty in these cities.
By what standard? If your standard is big, shiny buildings, yeah, the Chinese are way ahead. If you're looking at quality of life for the people, not a chance. Sure, there are poorer areas of Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania, say, Greece to, to some extent. But what people don't seem to realize is there are immensely poor people in China living in tiny boxes you never see. Or out in the countryside in tiny villages. Their lives are work.
The fact that you believe this just shows how rotten to the core american propaganda has got you to be. You can't look at a simple video of China's growth without bring up conspiracy theories. Are you really that jealous of China?
Yeah I had the same yesterday. Some people were pushing it so much that the stuff I was saying was propaganda by the western media, but coincidentally when I asked them for their opinions of Winnie the Poo/Xi Jinping they mysteriously shut up.
All countries have some fucked up shit to hide, some most than others, politicians that “suicided” by strange manners just before a corruption court or similar.
But some others don’t have a dictator but a government secret institutions that work as it, messing with external affairs sometimes starting conflicts, or as same as I said, making people of their own country disappear, and the shocking of all of this is that citizens know it’s existance and know they can get in trouble for saying what they think.
So sometimes a dictatorship can be clear as day and on others be quite hidden behind a democracy while being mostly the same
Another way to look at these images is to caption them as “1985 after 40 years of communism” and “2025 after 45 years of capitalism (but authoritarian rule)”. Compare with 1985 Hong Kong
Unfortunately, the echo chamber of Redditors circlejerking about the echo chamber of Redditors circlejerking about "China Bad" will disagree. And probably deny genocide.
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u/Knusprige-Ente 3d ago edited 3d ago
Obligatory reminder that the chinese peoples Republic is, even though technological advanced, a dictatorship that runs concentration Camps and lets people disappear that disagree with the government
Edit: I find it interesting how many feel the need to say that the USA isn't better. But If have never said otherwise, both can be true at the same time. The world doesn't work like a game of chess that only has two sides. The fact that one side is bad doesn't make the other good or even less bad