r/Defenders • u/Upper-Historian3335 • 3d ago
Why hasn’t there been any reference to the snap in Daredevil: Born Again
You would think, with daredevil being canon, and then there was infinity war, there would be some reference to the snap. Born again is supposed to be a grounded story, however, shouldn’t we see the aftermath of half of the population disappearing? I would love to see how Matt, Fisk, and Castle dealt with the snap. I would love to see the chaos in between… Actually, before going to that, after season three of Netflix Daredevil, why is Fisk out? How is he free to roam the Earth? Would not Matt try to make sure Fisk would stay in prison at some point? But fine, let’s put that aside, I want to see traumatic, traumatic, traumatic flashbacks of the time during the snap and seeing what the characters did. I imagine the snap gave the opportunity for someone like Fisk to get out of prison and to develop an empire. But I want to see Matt, and Frank, Hawkeye go nuts on the criminal world during the snap - Where rule of law went out the window. What do you guys think?
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u/Eothric 3d ago
Probably because they wanted to tell a different story and not have to deal with the boat anchor that is “The Blip.”
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
The thing that made Daredevil great was it was a grounded story that showed how the big scale movies affected the ground level of the MCU. In season 1 Fisk capitalises on the destruction through a construction company. After The Snap there were so many options: we could have had an epic Punisher season where he's the remaining street level hero going ham on criminals; jails could have collapsed and Fisk should have escaped; Fisk could have capitalized on rebuilding failing infrastructure and keeping a stable New York during those five years, and helping the housing efforts for those displaced from their homes after the Blip.
There are ways to weave the goings on in the universe into the plot other than halting the story to talk about it around a campfire, or outright pretend it never happened. My suggestions not only organically tie into the universe-level events, but also uses them to explain plot holes within the series itself.
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u/MusicalDeath9991 2d ago
Honestly why didn't we get a Punisher and Ronin team-up show? That would've been awesome.
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u/browncharliebrown 2d ago
I swear to god if they have a Punisher team-up before Max adaptation I will start a riot
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u/Cultural_Lack2213 2d ago
What? The extremely limited and largely arbitrary tie in references to the main MCU goings on that all but disappeared after the first season were not what made Daredevil great at all. If anything avoiding getting bogged down in crossover stuff is what allowed it to be as good and as focused as it was, where shows like Agents of Shield kept trying to keep up with what the movies were doing to mixed results.
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
You don't understand the point. There's a difference between crossover/blatant references, and using the natural after effects of the movies as a jumping off point for your narrative. It's the movie plots trickling down onto the real world, the street level.
There were no further MCU events relevant to Daredevil. Age of Ultron was in Sokovia, Civil War in Germany. The only other relevant one was the snap.
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u/Divewinds 2d ago
Arguably the Sokovia Accords were relevant, but they were refenced in Jessica Jones
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
Somewhat. They don't really directly affect anyone other than government-affiliated superheroes such as the Avengers/Secret Warriors, but some of the things implemented from the Accords (namely the Raft), play a larger role towards the end of that era, which I think would have become a bigger setting if the shows didn't get cancelled.
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u/Cultural_Lack2213 2d ago
Of course I did, the point was that the references to MCU canon made Daredevil good.
That's the point I refuted, it's a bad point, season 1 had some minor background tie in to the battle of new york that had little actual bearing on the quality of the show, just served as a handy launchpad for Fisks rise to power for the writers to used but in what way did that effect the quality of the show? Absolutely not one iota, you could write out the tie in references extremely easily without effecting anything in the show. Season 2 and 3 had essentially no references at all and were also good. What on earth does the state of the MCU at large being referenced in the show gor to do with making it good? It's a nice little reference if you're into the shared world aspect but to say it "made it good" is very silly.
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
You're trivialising it to a reference, so I don't think you understand. The fallout of the Chitauri invasion, namely the destruction to New York's infrastructure, sets the basis for the Daredevil plot, which so far has continued up to Born Again. If you think that's a "minor reference", I really don't think you understood the basis of the first season.
It's not about the "incident" references, it's about the lasting impact.
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u/Cultural_Lack2213 2d ago
It can be technically pivotal to the plot and still trivial to the quality of the show. The background of the battle of New York was key to Kingpins rise in the show we got, absolutely true. But you change a handful of lines and this aspect can be written out without impacting the quality of the show one iota, I'd bet most people don't even remember that Kingpins rise had anything at all to do with the Avengers, it really wasn't very important, just a handy thing the writers could use to create a power vacuum for Kingpin to step into, hardly a difficult writing exercise to invent a new one to plug the tiny gaps.
The impact the tie to the MCU had on the quality of the show was almost non existent, saying it was the reason it was great is laughable.
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u/browncharliebrown 2d ago
Have you read the Daredevil inferno tie-ins. It basically takes an extremely fantastical concept Demons invading the world and basically grounds it by looking at what happens to the average citizen
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
Never, is it any good?
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u/browncharliebrown 2d ago
Ann Noicenti’s run is very good. There is also an issue where he fights Ultron Which is so much fun
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u/Upper-Historian3335 2d ago
I love it - I agree 100%…actually it would make sense that in a shattered civilization, the governments may pardon Fisk to help rebuild the city and its infrastructure (while taking control of the crime to maintain order). Which Matt and Castle would not be too happy about - corruption is still corruption to them. That would have been an interesting grounded story
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
Which would also explain his success in the mayoral polls. The entire populous of New York effectively depended on him post snap.
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u/Upper-Historian3335 1d ago
That would have been a good story to tell, and ties in to BA and would make sense.
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u/QuiJon70 1d ago
Your suggestion is dumb and has been done in the mcu prime movies many of which were said to be some of the worst like Spiderman nwh, mom, quantumaina. It's time for stories to move beyond the snap.
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u/Eternal_Deviant 1d ago
Care to explain how it was done in those movies?
Move beyond the snap? We've barely explored it!
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u/QuiJon70 1d ago
The entire Hawkeye and falcon and winter soldier dealt directly with events from the blip.
Sorry wrong Spiderman movie but the FFH movie was dealing with Peter's fall out from the blip and losing Tony.
Wanda vision happens because she lost vision so she created kids and lost them also and MoM is all about how that trauma effects her moving forward.
Quantumania has Scott dealing with fallout from being gone and how Cassie mostly choses to ignore his authority and self parent or take her leads from Hank and his wife.
Echo is the fallout of Robin killing her dad. And shows that Matt just kept on doing his normal daredevil thing.
Point is we have moved on. We are no longer in the window of post blip. We don't need to move backward we should be laying the groundwork for the future.
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u/Eternal_Deviant 1d ago
Hawkeye briefly explores it.
FFH was about losing Tony. There was no "fall out" from the Blip besides a couple gags in the movie.
TFATWS doesn't explore the Blip, but the after effects.
Vision didn't die in the Snap.
Quantumania besides a couple lines has nothing to do with the Blip.
Echo briefly explores it.
That's 2 projects that explore the Blip through a flashback, and one that explores the after effects of it. We haven't moved on at all, Marvel have just pretended it never existed. TFATWS established most of the returned people were displaced from their homes which had been sold on during the five years. This was so bad a terrorist group formed, and a global council was created on the matter. Neither were heard from again.
That said, everyone you've mentioned here who were established prior to Infinity War are people we saw the reactions of during Endgame. Daredevil has been active since 2014 and we haven't seen what happened to him when the Snap took place, nor what happened to him and Fisk during those five years. A cameo doesn't explain the numerous plot holes or missed reactions/character development. That's just not good enough.
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u/QuiJon70 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is no plot hole you are just to up your own ass to see it.
In ep1 of born again they say after the blip that matt quit being daredevil and focused on law with foggy. The entire plot of the first episode was that foggy didn't tell Matt about the threats to the witness so Matt didn't have a reason to go back to being daredevil. So either Matt blipped out and "born again" is reference to his return and trying to go strait or he kept fighting but as they pointed out a couple times hells kitchen was getting gentrified and Vanessa was controlling the crime and Matt quit thinking his job was done.
As for fisk. In season 3 he had made a deal to be released for helping the fbi. He was likely a free man at the end of all that since all the rogue fbi agents were killed by bulls eye. He was injured in I believe both Hawkeye and echo.
And he says he left because all he ever wanted was to improve the city and it wasn't working out being kingpin. He got his face repaired and came back with a new image and played marvel trump to get elected believing it was a means to his goal.
Neither have a big mystery or holes. It serves no point to go backward 7 years to fill in gaps that are not needed. I mean gee I don't know how Matt and foggy celebrated Karen's birthday in 2020 with a pandemic raging and all. But I don't need it explained either because it doesn't fucking matter to the story.
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u/Eternal_Deviant 1d ago
They don't say that in episode 1. The Blip was never mentioned. Matt was so quick to get into his outfit so clearly not. Your own theory is wrong considering we see Matt survived the Snap in Echo, lol.
Did you even watch season 3????????? By the end Fisk is arrested for multiple RICO counts which each carry a 20 year maximum charge.
What new image? Why would people vote for a man who was caught corrupting government officials and ordering mass evictions and deaths?
Half the universe disappearing doesn't matter to the story? How Fisk dodged 100+ years in prison doesn't matter to the story? Why he reneged on his deal with Matt doesn't matter to the story? Why Matt never stopped him in those 10 years doesn't matter to the story? Why the public voted Fisk doesn't matter to the story?
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u/Upper-Historian3335 2d ago
Yes, that’s true, but if it is a cohesive world, do you really feel that something like that has no effect on these characters?… at least have some external reference to it, like how in season one of daredevil they had a reference to the battle of New York. I don’t know - how do you feel about it?
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u/jakebeleren 2d ago
You can only do so much. Otherwise when an obvious villain like kingpin is doing evil things, they would just walk down the street and ask Dr. strange to help.
They don’t know who he is, but surely Spider-Man is aware the mayor was recently in prison and everyone seemingly forgot.
I’d rather have the universe that allows crossovers but has inconsistencies than one where the stakes never matter.
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u/Harold3456 2d ago
Same. I will always be satisfied with the "Where are the Avengers?" "Ehh, they're busy," line, because I don't actually care if I'm trying to watch a movie about somebody else.
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u/TaylorDangerTorres 2d ago
Do you want every marvel thing just to be about that from here on out? That'd suck lol
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u/OnlinePosterPerson 2d ago
I mean yeah. When you take a swing that big, if you still want the world to be grounded you need to write every character with that in mind.
Phase 4 couldn’t have spent a lot of time dealing with both the snap and the blip. If they didn’t want to do that, the 5 year jump was a mistake
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u/Upper-Historian3335 1d ago
Oh course that would suck, but I think a natural end of one trauma is a new one lol - secret wars. I think after secret wars you would retire the trauma from thanos.
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u/Procyon-Sceletus 2d ago
The blip was 6 years ago and almost everything since has dealt with the aftermath in some way. I think its time the mcu moved on from it tbh
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u/EugenesMullet 2d ago
We don’t need every detail filled in for us. They’ve more than milked the snap in the past 6 years.
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u/Upper-Historian3335 1d ago
I agree, we don’t think every detail needs to be filled in for us, but I do think they are leaving a lot of good opportunities on the table. And I would imagine trauma chisels people - for some for the better, for some for the worse.
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u/MagnaBlade64 2d ago
No because new writers are lazy. The original writers tried to explain how events of Avengers and Age of Ultron affected New York City during Defenders verse
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u/Upper-Historian3335 1d ago
I kind of agree - or at the very least their ego is getting in the way. “We’re going to make something so good it’ll stand on its own”. if it’s really that good, I agree you don’t need to lean on another story, but also you shouldn’t have it ignore it.
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u/MagnaBlade64 1d ago
Yeah there’s no way that Bullseye would wait 6 years to attack Foggy and Karen unless he was blipped for 5 years or how Kingpin would be able to rebuild his empire again if he was blipped.
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u/13WillieBeaman 3d ago
I would love for just one scene in Matt’s POV what was going on around him. Use that MCU budget money
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u/DamnImAss 3d ago
Maybe because we’ve already seen too many mentions to the snap and Thanos. Idk I’m whatever to them referencing Thanos.
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u/blaintopel 2d ago
i dont think there is such a thing as too many references to the blip. like in real life the pandemic gets brought up in like one in every 5 conversations, and the blip would come up way more than that. in fact i think its been under referenced if anything. i feel like at this point any character thats had an hour or more of screen time in the mcu we should know whether they blipped or not. it basically hasnt been mentioned since hawkeye.
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
It was properly referenced in four Phase 4 projects. I don't mean verbal references, but something that is factored into the plot or shown, such as WandaVision with Monica's flashback, the GRC in TFATWS, and Hawkeye and Maya's flashbacks. It should have had a lasting effect this entire saga. We should have seen it way more and had one or two projects set during that time frame.
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u/Upper-Historian3335 2d ago
Have we though? Like they rung it out on their phase 4, but phase 4 was pretty bad in general, I could see how it leaves a bad taste and everyone’s mouths. But are we saying that like something like the snap/the blip, would have no bearing on these characters in this cohesive world? Nothing at least in the background like in season one of daredevil in relation to the battle of New York?
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u/RadiantChaos 2d ago
Far From Home, Wandavision, Falcon & The Winter Soldier, Shang-Chi, Hawkeye, Eternals, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, and Guardians 3 all made various references to the Blip and how it impacted the main characters. In particular, FFH, WV, F&TWS, and Hawkeye went fairly in depth in the effects on specific people and what it was like for them, and we can gleam a lot of what it was like for the average person. So I don’t feel like there’s been a shortage of blip mentions, personally.
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u/Paperchampion23 2d ago
I mean, like half of the new shows dont actively talk about the blip lol its a narrative crutch at this point.
Maybe someone will mention it at some point but its not really important to the current story anyway
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u/FeloranMe 3d ago
Who do you think was snapped of the Daredevil characters?
Was Matt Daredevil during the chaos of the snap and then the chaos of the blip with so many people coming back?
What about Foggy and Karen?
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u/totaltvaddict2 2d ago
Yes, Matt was Daredevil during the Blip. Echo has flashbacks from that time. Clint was being Ronin, so it was definitely during the Blip era.
Kingpin was around then too. Any other characters are unknown for their blipped status.
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u/FeloranMe 2d ago
I think Karen and Foggy both had to have survived the snap, or at least Foggy
Because otherwise the loss of Foggy wouldn't have hit so hard if Matt had been through it before
I would have to watch Hawkeye again! So that confirms Kingpin and Maya at least weren't snapped?
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u/totaltvaddict2 2d ago
Yes on Kingpin. There’s a brief flashback/background scene early in Echo where she fights Daredevil that would take place during the Snap.
I’ve not timed my rewatch well and am doing it in tandem. I just finished DD3, have watched the no way home scene on YouTube, and am about to get into Hawkeye.
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u/FeloranMe 2d ago
I was thinking about doing a rewatch too
Good idea about adding in Hawkeye and Echo to cover the years between the end of season 3 and the current series
And She Hulk too as well as No Way Home
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u/blacksunshineaz 2d ago
If we hadn’t had seven year gap between DD S3 and DD:BA I think it would have been mentioned. It definitely would have been interesting to see how it affected the characters, but there’s a chance none of them got blipped so it’s pretty much a non-issue.
Nelson and Murdock likely would have provided legal services to people who got blipped, but again what plot does that serve? I think none. As we get closer to Avengers: Doomsday I think Marvel won’t be referencing it anymore - unless it has something to do with the backstory of the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, but I find that unlikely.
The only thing I want to know in DD:BA is how Fisk got out of prison. Perhaps he was released after serving his sentence (I don’t recall them ever saying how long it was), but I think this question will never get answered.
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u/indianajoes 2d ago
How many times a day do you mention COVID?
People move on after a few years. Maybe if you lost someone you might think about it every day but even then the snap was reversed so most wouldn't think about it the same way
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u/8rok3n 3d ago
HOW long ago was the Snap exactly? Dude think about real life, COVID was only 5 years ago and people BARELY mention that, it's been MUCH longer since the Snap.
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u/Yamamoto_Decimo 3d ago
I mean... It's a bigger scale. I kinda agree with 10 years not sure 5 years. And literally the snap people got back so they can still tell stories about them returning.
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u/Yamamoto_Decimo 3d ago
That's fucking insane. It doesn't matter, in some ways it's impact is bigger. People created whole lives thinking their loved ones wouldn't return.,the world adjusted to a new population level, then suddenly everything came back. Meaning, people with whole families have to suddenly deal with their wives, dads, husbands, etc. Returning. Covid people die, people grief. They don't suddenly return. In many ways the impact is far greater. And it's the whole universe. Half the population of Earth, 4 billion, disappeared. And out of nowhere they all reappear where they were. You are aware people were in the sky when they disappeared, inside cars in the middle of the road, at the gym, at work, in construction work. Can you imagine how bad the chaos would be them reappearing in the same place? 4 billion learning everyone moved on, another 4 billion learning that they moved on and are forced to move back.
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u/Upper-Historian3335 2d ago
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking - it has to be traumatic. Like there is no way it had no effect on people lol you know what I mean? And then, during that time, the people who were still around, what kind of chaos did they see? I think born again would be a great place to see that grounded story of how ugly the ugly side of mankind can be. At least flashbacks. What do you think?
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u/Upper-Historian3335 2d ago
That’s true, but it’s a little different I think. People easily forgot about the Spanish flu from World War I. It was illness. But people didn’t forget as easily about the actual World War I and World War II. I can’t imagine people forgetting about World War II in 5 to 10 years from its end. I do see your point, and it says there’s stated everyone did end up back from it. But the world was suddenly different from when everyone was just living their lives, and then everyone disappeared, and people had to savage a world from that, and then from there, I once only came back and dynamics have changed - what do you do with that? And there’s no reference to that in the background anywhere?
No flashbacks of that time? I don’t know what do you think?2
u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
But it wasn't just the Snap, it was the Blip. The world was on the brink of collapse during those five years, and afterwards, suddenly BILLIONS of people reappeared.
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u/Sirius_J_Moonlight 7h ago
I don't think the writers want to deal with what would really happen after something like that. They wanted a plot device for certain things, but unless Tony's fix on that last snap included some recovery, doubling the population after 5 years of adjustment would kill a billion people. They dug too big a hole and now they want to ignore it.
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u/teddyburges 2d ago
You mean like how the original series had pictures and mention every now and then for the Avengers battle in New York and they referred to it as "the incident" like it took place in the world of LOST?.
That was goofy as hell, no thanks.
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u/Sorry_Name_Is_Taken 2d ago
Because there’s no reason,for the current story they’re telling, to mention it.
Just like they didn’t mention the Celestial in the ocean until Brave New World.
There’s a whole of other things going on in the current story to stop and reminisce about that time half the world vanished and returned.
In real life, we don’t often keep talking about traumatic events years after the fact frequently.
The only people would do are in the political sphere. Who would use it to push an agenda.
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u/Status-Payment5722 2d ago
Because the ramifications of the snap would completely break the universe so they're just chosing to ignore it accross the board.
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u/Used_Historian5607 2d ago
I agree. We have not dried the well on Post Endgame content. I guess you're left to assume they all got snapped. It could help explain how Fisk got out.
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u/BlackEastwood 2d ago
Now I'm daydreaming of the idea that everything we've seen so far is pre-snap.
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u/throw_pillow_plow 1d ago
before the series released and i knew what they were gonna do in that first episode, i always thought a really good opening scene for the show would be Matt reacting to the Blip. maybe show him losing Karen and Foggy and then his reaction when they came back. probably wouldn't have fit in with everything else they're doing but maybe we'll see some reference to it in flashbacks
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u/prollyadeuce 3d ago
How often do you talk about The September 11th attacks In your daily life? How often do you hear random people on the street talking about that event?
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u/chaseribarelyknowher 3d ago
I hear more about 9/11 present day than Covid
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u/prollyadeuce 3d ago
Damn it, You just proved my point better than I could have. Because even I forgot about covid.
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u/Upper-Historian3335 2d ago
Good point on 9/11, but that was like 25 years ago. We talked about it in the following years. God sakes we had a “war on terrorism”. But you’re right we don’t talk about it anymore, not much .
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u/jikol1992 2d ago
9/11 keep being mentioned because of the subsequent war happened after. After Blip, MCU had GRC and Flag Smasher. Sam Wilson (and Zemo) basically ended all that less than a year after blip. We can assume after event in TFATWS all "refugee" that caused by the blip is pretty much take care of and in the ideal world of MCU pretty much no major problem related to blip anymore.
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u/mikedidathing 3d ago
It's honestly more of a reflection of NYC than anything else. Yes, there's the initial shock of 4 million people suddenly returning to the city, but after about a month, New Yorkers will be more concerned about their new roommates not paying rent, or the sudden congestion on the roads and public transportation.
Throughout The Defenders, they referred to the events of The Avengers as "The Incident." I believe it's in the first episode of Daredevil. Matt replies, "Oh, is that what they're calling it?" It's a very NY way of going about it.
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u/New-Championship4380 3d ago
Uh because its been 3 full years since that happened and so much other shit has happened since then. You underestimate just how jaded citizens in the mcu are now.
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u/LumpyProperty5954 2d ago
Kinda the same way they handled the Alien Attack in NYC during Daredevil Season 1 if I remember. Although I think it was referenced but not in a noticeable way but at that time I think the attack was fairly recent unlike the Snap so they had to at least make a passing mention to it.
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u/mnelly4201776 2d ago
It's referenced a few times in Daredevil and Luke Cage. There are also Battle of New York news clippings framed in the news office too. Someone is on the streets selling video footage of it in Luke Cage.
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u/LumpyProperty5954 2d ago
As I said, it was reference but only in passing. I'm thinking its just as a way to tie it in to the MCU movies back then.
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u/Schoolhater18 2d ago
After hearing about the original plans for season 4, with Typhoid Mary and Gladiator being the villain, I really hope we can get a season that takes place between season 3 and born again. Do Typhoid Mary and Gladiator, and then they can address the blip. Maybe the season can take place during the blip.
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u/Senshado 2d ago
The blip had an effect on every character, which means that all of them have had plenty of time to discuss it from every possible angle by now. They've gotten it out of their systems and there's nothing else left to talk about.
For comparison, how many times this month did you talk about covid 19 pandemic? Probably zero. It was important 5 years ago, but there's no need to mention it now.
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u/Circaninetysix 2d ago
I think they're kind of over that story wise. Every movie and show for the last couple years has dealt with it extensively. I think we've seen the ramifications, like the people in the MCU, the writers are moving on from that. Everyone has been back now for like two years. Much like the real world, people readjust faster than you would think. Kind of like how you don't hear about covid much anymore. We're over it.
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u/dtfulsom 2d ago edited 2d ago
idk, it's not like we've seen how the world of every marvel character has been affected by the snap. Also remember they were originally planning a total reboot: it's been a few years since the Snap, and the vast majority of Marvel projects don't reference it anymore. It was the intro (and not much more) to ... not the last Spider-Man film, but the one before that—Spider-Man: Far From Home. So, with us going on to the fourth Spider-Man film, I didn't really expect it to be in the new Daredevil series.
THAT SAID: We might get some reference to the snap if we get a flashback episode that shows how Fisk is out of jail. (As I understand these first 7 episodes, save the first, were largely the footage they shot when they were planning a reboot, so it makes sense that him being out of jail wouldn't have been addressed yet.)
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u/BigDaddyGreeds 2d ago
Things have an effect on people yes but they move on. Nobody really talks about Covid these days, it was a very real thing that happened and many people are still dealing with the consequences from that time but generally it's not really something that's mentioned day to day. The Snap happened and if it's relevant I'm sure it'll be bought up again but don't expect it to be mentioned all the time.
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u/TheDeadlySpaceman 2d ago
Why doesn’t the fact that we were in lockdown for a while come up every time I see my friends?
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u/TheGr3aTAydini 2d ago
They pretty much moved on from the Snap, they covered all they needed to really: Far From Home is like a year after Endgame so it was relatively fresh, Falcon & the Winter Soldier had a group that formed after the Snap happened as villains (the Flag Smashers), Hawkeye features Kingpin fresh from the Snap, Echo shows Daredevil active during the five year gap. They’ve covered all they need to.
Born Again starts off quite some time after Endgame like in late 2025 supposedly and then they have a year or so time jump to early 2027 which is quite some time for people to make the Snap a passing memory especially since at this point in time in- universe they have just elected Kingpin (a known criminal) as Mayor of New York, they have a serial killer running around stealing people’s blood for his spray paint and more vigilantes showing up (White Tiger, Swordsman) they have more immediate matters on their plate than what happened like 3/4 years ago at that point.
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u/Pastry_d_pounder 2d ago
Nah I prefer my DD with subtle references like newspaper clippings. No more than that.
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u/MattC6254 2d ago
I really want a scene of Matt is his apartment or on a rooftop when the Snap occurs and we see him react to all the chaos and quietness.
Sort of like that scene in Defenders when the Earthquake hits New York.
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u/Better_Edge_ 2d ago
I'm pretty sure they referenced it in the first episode. At least indirectly.
But people in the MCU have seen a lot, dialogue explaining who got snapped/what they were doing while be hard toale organic.
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u/NatrenSR1 2d ago
Matt had to consider Skrulls when providing legal counsel. That’s good enough for me
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u/Sea-Union308 2d ago
in the same way that we’re mostly past covid we’re mostly past the blip
both huge events that happened but after a few years every one almost goes back to normal
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u/IC_228 1d ago
Same with all references to other shows or films, they really wanted to keep it self-contained so people who only saw the original show don’t get lost immediately. Their references to Echo and Hawkeye were extremely vague, even though they were pivotal to Fisk’s story.
I’m assuming they might pull a Mandalorian and have the first season include nearly no connections to the larger story, then go all in for season 2, which could either go really well or really bad
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u/Chuck_Finley_Forever 1d ago
Because if they did, everyone would be crying about having mcu stuff shoved down our throats.
Kamala’s dad mentioned her like two times and this whole forums was fuming over a dad being proud of his daughter.
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u/kspi7010 1d ago
There has barely been any references to the snap in any MCU production. They moved past it pretty quickly.
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u/Trick-Meringue1036 10h ago
I think it has to do with the fact that the show takes place at the same time as Brave New World and there was a huge time skip from season 3 to born again so unless we get a flashback scene good chance they were part if the snap
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u/AllMightyImagination 3d ago
The reference should have happened in Hawkeye. BA takes place a decade late 😐😑.
Kevin Feigie has the final say over MCU content. He allowed NF content to be used for HE, SH, and Echo. BA happens after Echo because its there at the end Fisk wants to be Mayor. The problem isn't with BA. It starts with the other Disney Plus showrunners not following Season 3 and taking the snap into account
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u/rogerworkman623 3d ago
Hawkeye did reference the snap. Yelena is a big part of the season, and she disappeared in the snap. We see her disappear and return, and her mission to kill Clint is partially fueled by the fact that in a quick instant she lost 5 years of her life and found out her sister is dead.
Falcon and the Winter Soldier also dealt with it. The flagsmashers, the terrorist antagonists of the show, are doing what they’re doing because they feel they got screwed when people returned from the blip. They want to return things to how they were. It also shows Sam and his sister dealing with how they can’t even get a bank loan to save their business, because they have no income history for the 5 years while they were blipped.
In Wandavision, a big part of Monica Rambeau’s story is that she was blipped and had to find out her mother died in the years she was gone. It’s a major part of her backstory episode.
It’s mentioned in Ms. Marvel that Kamala was blipped, her brother worries about her becoming a superhero because he doesn’t want to lose her again.
Secret Invasion definitely dealt with it, but the less said about that show, the better.
Loki didn’t really deal with it, but he was mostly traveling through time or at the TVA. I don’t think Moon Knight really addressed it either, but otherwise, almost every MCU show has dealt with it in a pretty big way. Eventually they have to move on to other storylines.
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u/AllMightyImagination 3d ago
I am talking about why did the first use of DD content (Fisk) not acknowledge season 3's ending in the context of the snap. He would otherwise be in jail with no power over the law.
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u/Cultural_Lack2213 2d ago
Simple, the netflix seasons weren't going to be Canon when they did Hawkeye. Born again got reworked to tie in seasons 1 to 3 after production had already started
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u/Upper-Historian3335 2d ago
We didn’t see the grittiness we could get with Matt and Castle and the criminal underworld (Fisk). It would be a free for all.
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u/Upper-Historian3335 2d ago
Yup yup agree 100%. But if they’ve spent an estimate 200 million budget on the show, they could throw us a bone 🦴
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
Not at all. Echo takes place after Hawkeye but we still get an entire episode showing her before, during, and after the Blip, even giving prior context to her Hawkeye appearance, retelling it, before following it up.
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u/AllMightyImagination 2d ago edited 2d ago
Fisk was the first Netfilx character used. Season 3 ended before the snap. He had his legal power taken away and imprsioned. Blake Tower understood to cut off Fisk's legs so he can't manipulate law enforcement anymore.
Time skip to the scrapped season 4, which would have most likely been released before End game. End game =2019. Season 3 ended in 2015. 4 years to release probably both seasons.
Fisk was not mentioned in any of the seasons, so assumingly he was still imprsioned. Bullseye would have returned in season 5 and by then the snap would approach.
So we must take account into before the snap, Fisk was done for good. If he broke out he would be a wanted man because Blake made sure to not have law enforcement fall for him again. It only makes sense to have law enforcement to put Fisk on the run since he broke out, doing the same thing in the public. They would be on high alert unless they were all snapped and their resources dwindled to unable to bring the peace back. But that's hard to take serious with how normal the world went back.
Hawkeye's showrunners not addressing what happened between season 3's ending and the snap is the problem.
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u/Eternal_Deviant 2d ago
That's what would happen if half the planet vanishes. Everything will collapse, a criminal is the last thing on anyone's mind. The movies skipped over it, that's why the shows should have showed how bad things got. My idea of Fisk being integral to restoring the infrastructure of the city is so when everyone returns and they want things to go back to normal & prisoners to return, Fisk owns half the buildings, power plants, and companies in the city. Without Fisk, the city dies again, so to not risk that, the DA's office basically don't bother with him.
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u/random-orca-guy 2d ago
I’m so tired of the snap, I never want to hear about it again. It’s so damn boring. Les’s multiverse too please.
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u/zigmint 3d ago
Probably to make it easier for anyone who just watched daredevil and nothing else to jump in