367
u/yobo9193 2d ago
The US being run by a fuckstick doesn’t suddenly make China friends with democracies around the world…
112
u/Rimnews 2d ago
Seeing how even more of my electronics etc will now come from China with god knows what preinstalled software.... "Glory to the CCP and its visionary Chairman Ci Jinping, may he live long and prosper".
60
u/MintRobber 2d ago
Thinking about you Social Credit already. Smart 😏👈
6
u/Profezzor-Darke 2d ago
The Social Credit Score is a financial credibility score. It's not based on behaviour or political stance. It's if you paid your debts or not.
13
u/Stanislovakia 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's not only financial security anymore. It's been expanded to include things like food safety, intellectual property, etc.
→ More replies (1)0
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
So it's the same as in the US and Germany. Interesting.
8
u/grumpsaboy 2d ago
It was initially only financial things however has been expanded. It's sort of public perception, if you're a smoker you lose points the cameras that cover all of the cities if they spot you jaywalking you lose points all sorts of things like that and then punishments aren't just having worse credit score but things like your kids not being allowed to go to their top university choice
→ More replies (3)5
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
That has been debunked years ago. It was a pilot project in one city. If the smoking thing were true, China wouldn’t have that many smokers and theP most definitely wouldn’t own all major tabacco companies.
2
u/grumpsaboy 2d ago
Do you think smokers are the best at making great life decisions?
1
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
yes, good argument /s
→ More replies (4)2
u/grumpsaboy 2d ago
Kinda is. Nobody starts smoking if you're conscious about long-term effects
→ More replies (0)1
→ More replies (4)8
u/New_Carpenter5738 2d ago
...As opposed to electronics coming from he USA with god knows what preinstalled software?
→ More replies (16)2
u/Rimnews 2d ago
Yes long live god King Trump, nobody does freedom better than him. USA USA USA!
4
u/New_Carpenter5738 2d ago
The sad part is reality has become indistinguishable from parody
→ More replies (1)8
7
u/OneMoreFinn 2d ago
I disagree somewhat. "An enemy of my enemy is my friend" applies to trade as well. But it does not make PRC any less antidemocratic.
6
8
u/bisory 2d ago
That quote is so dumb and does not apply here. Maybe in james bond but not here
1
u/superior9k1 2d ago
Well, in my current Hoi4 run britain allied with germany to take out the Commonwealth nations, soooo :D
→ More replies (1)2
u/Auravendill Germany 1d ago
If you rank all countries by how friendly and trustworthy they are to your own and one of your formerly closest friends betrays you again and again, so you lose all trust and they end up ranking below even China (even if this may be temporary), then China effectively went one spot up in the over all ranking, simply by not doing anything noteworthy for a few months. I still wouldn't trust them, but at least they do not declare, that they want to annex a part of a neighbouring country.
→ More replies (1)1
u/CivilIndividual1230 1d ago
Seeing as most of the european tariffs imposed on China where due to US influence, I say let's remove those tariffs and see what happens to trade in the US...
→ More replies (42)1
u/Signupking5000 1d ago
But it does make the US an enemy of em.
China and the USA are super similar in resources, landmass, size, economics and much much more. Now also politically similar.
156
u/MrS0bek 2d ago
Meh. Just because one thing is bad doesn't mean the other one isn't too.
4
12
u/FriendlyGuitard 2d ago
The last few years with Russia, Israel, and now the US and the generalised rise of extreme right feels like a humbling cold shower.
If you were defending Western world moral superiority because based on universal human rights, democracy and freedom 20 years ago, we were actually sounding like r/ShitAmericansSay.
China model is still bad, but ours has proven to be bad too. If you were to be reborn in a middle class family right now, I wouldn't know wether to bet on China or Europe.
31
7
u/Ein_Hirsch 1d ago
I wouldn't know wether to bet on China or Europe.
Europe (EU). Still get the benefits of a welfare state while also having all the political freedoms you deserve as a human being
→ More replies (1)1
1
u/WorldArcher1245 2d ago
At this point, you have to pick the lesser evil to work with. You can't take on the world alone.
And at least China is thousands of KMs away and actually want a functioning relationship with others.
→ More replies (6)1
61
u/JuicyLemonBanana 2d ago
I agree! The Republic of China is great! Gotta stay cautious about that PRC tho..
→ More replies (3)27
u/my-opinion-about 2d ago
Exactly. Unfortunately the western part (continental part) of ROC (Republic of China) is illegally occupied by an illegitimate communist party.
11
2
1
56
u/shredded_accountant 2d ago
Nah, fam. Sinicization is still a policy, actively enforced by the CCP.
→ More replies (8)6
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
And America only wants white Christians and Russia only wants Russians. Both actively enforcing said policies with the help of ... What's the word? Re-education camps? Siberian forced-labour colonies? Outsourced prisons in El Salvador? Let's just call them what they are: concentration camps.
The difference is that China didn't start a war in Europe or is stabbing us in the back. That being said, all superpowers are morally degenerated. Who would've thought.
16
u/grumpsaboy 2d ago
A Chinese ship deliberately cut and undersea cable a few months ago in Europe and Chinese affiliated companies regularly cyber attack European companies and government agencies
7
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
Russia is in a hybrid war with us and our former ally is talking about annexing Canada and Greenland while starting a trade war with us. What’s your point?
7
u/grumpsaboy 2d ago
That China is still a threat actively working against us. You seem to believe that China's this nice little benevolent entity that has never done anything against Europe
2
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
I don’t believe that nor did I say that. They are an totalitarian regime that keeps their population in an information bubble to hold onto narratives (or at least tries to), their treatment of minorities is genocidal and they have a lot of imperialistic plans for the future. The list goes on. But thats also true for Saudi Arabia, Turkey, India and most of the rest of the world for one or multiple points. That doesn’t keep us from trading with them. But when it comes to China, everyone suddenly cares. Turkey is in NATO ffs.
What I do say (because it’s a fact) is that China is way more predictable and not at war with us, two things that are important for a trading partner. And given that the west pushed all of their production over there because it was cheaper, we kind of have to trade with them.
Additionally, a lot of people have no idea what modern China is actually like, have never spoken with a Chinese citizen or visited the country and still hold onto a picture that was accurate 40 years ago, but most definitely isn’t reality today. Yes it’s a one party system but, and that’s the important part * they care for their people*. The life of the average Chinese person has improved immensely over the last decades. Where their grandparents had to work as substitute farmers, they can now go to college and have an apartment in one of the most modern cities on this planet, with modern public transportation, electric cars, exotic food straight to your door, the whole thing. This will make you look away from a lot of things.
China working actively against us
So do Russia and the US, and in worse ways than China does. This argument fell flat the moment trump took office. Europe can either cling to another global power of become one itself.
→ More replies (4)4
9
u/shredded_accountant 2d ago
It is all fun and games and selective application of morals and human rights until you and your family get uyghur'ed
→ More replies (2)3
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
It's not even fun and games before that because it's horrible to treat your fellow human beings like that. But given the current global markets and the fact that the EU isn't as powerful as they could (and hopefully will) be, we need strong economic ties to, well someone. And China is the least horrible option, at least they aren't as insane/erratic or straight up at war with us.
3
u/shredded_accountant 2d ago edited 2d ago
Let's be very honest on this: Trump takes bribes. The relationship with Trump is whatever you pay for. He can be liberal, illiberal, pro-EU, anti-EU, whatever.
The EU budget is 170 billion euro. That is a lot of bribing power.
Mr. Jinping over there wasn't having the best time in terms of economics before the Trump Slump, let alone on Monday.
3
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
That's a back-of-napkin-calculation. Do we want to be allied with someone who can be bought by anyone? What if someone else pays more tomorrow? Do we have to pay a monthly fee? The US is an unreliable partner and a danger to the whole of NATO. The rest of the sane world would be better off just ignoring them from now on.
3
u/shredded_accountant 2d ago
The russian is flat broke and the chinese are spoiling for a fight over Semiconductorwan.
Who is going to outbuy the EU?
2
u/vlntly_peaceful 2d ago
It's not about the amount of money but the action. I'd hate to be reliant on monthly payments to Trump just to "be safe" of whatever. That's extortion. Period.
You could also just lower your pants and bend over. Same result but cheaper. We could put that money toward something actually useful, like European weapons, new trading partners and general domestic production. Why on god's green earth people still think we have to be allied with the US is beyond me.
spoiling for a fight over Semiconductorwan.
Off topic but I just want to add: China won't fight for Taiwan if they don't have to.
The first best option is political a la Hong Kong.
The second best is a full blockade - under the condition that the US won't fight - until Taiwan caves in or starves.
The last option is a "direct" military conflict, which just means blockade plus throwing land based medium range missiles at any military ship coming too close. Actual boots on the ground will be a last resort for multiple reasons (high casualty rate for urban fighting, the Chinese military has no real life experience, bad publicity...)
→ More replies (6)1
u/Citaku357 Kosovo 2d ago
The difference is that China didn't start a war in Europe or is stabbing us in the back. That being said, all superpowers are morally degenerated. Who would've thought.
They literally support Russia tf do you want them to do? To threat European countries? Oh wait they already did that lol
→ More replies (5)1
u/my-opinion-about 2d ago
“All superpowers all morally degenerated”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
Come back when you read this because they were the most beloved tools of communists to change the human perception.
That illegitimate regime that occupy West Taiwan is more horrible than anything else. They only play a role for fools to believe that they are well intentioned.
See their African relation also.
→ More replies (3)
109
u/_L3V 2d ago
Ohh no, this anti china sentiment stays here
16
u/SnooOpinions6959 2d ago
It stays but will be overshadowed by anti russian and anti American sentiment
5
u/Remarkable_Fan8029 2d ago
How is Russia different than china?
10
u/AbrahamicHumanist 2d ago
I think the biggest difference is that Europe has more beef with Russia than with China
5
u/Remarkable_Fan8029 2d ago
Yeah, because they are closer. Think about it what it would be like if China was our neighbour and they'd treat us like Taiwan or something
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (1)3
u/Tankette55 2d ago
Russia is next to us and wants to kill us, China is on the other side of thenplanet and wants to trade with us. The morality of the regimes takes a backseat.
2
2
13
u/a-new-year-a-new-ac 2d ago
One becoming bad doesn’t make the other one turn magically good
1
u/Sir-Alfonso 2d ago
Yeah, the enemy of my enemy is still a conditional and situational relationship
44
u/yyytobyyy 2d ago
This sub is becoming too positive to China.
They are still the ones with concentration camps and planning invasion to Taiwan.
Let's be pragmatic at most.
10
u/Much_Horse_5685 2d ago
I am not saying that China is a friend of the EU, but the US is now sending people to Nayib Bukele’s concentration camp for protesting and is threatening invasions of Greenland and Canada. There is a real possibility that in a few years China will have a better human rights record than the US.
3
u/Designer_Version1449 2d ago
This feels like the allies allying with Stalin to appose Hitler, Stalin was almost just as bad, the key word being almost.
2
→ More replies (1)5
u/Remarkable_Fan8029 2d ago
CCP has massive online campaigns, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is affecting this subreddit
7
8
u/Novel_Quote8017 2d ago
But isn't China committing genocide beyond any reasonable doubt? Wasn't that the onus in 2021?
3
u/poopydogman 1d ago
Fun fact; the US and EU is supporting currently more genocides than china and historical has as well.
→ More replies (2)
7
u/Aggressive_Sprinkles Germany 2d ago
The enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend.
1
u/Smalandsk_katt 1d ago
Imagine if the UK said this in 1941. We'd all be speaking Germans and there would be no Slavs, Jews, Romas or Gays left on the planet.
12
u/Urban_guerilla_ 2d ago
Remember : China does not have Europs best interest in mind either . China wants to be number one and they sure as hell don’t want a strong Europe . It’s easier to facilitate your world order when you’re dealing with a ton of small, powerless nations than when you’re dealing with a strong , united block of nations.
3
u/Sir-Alfonso 2d ago
Let’s not forget how they debt trapped and extort many african nations and they’ve tried to do the same in Europe
→ More replies (1)1
6
4
u/TempAccJune 2d ago
Criticism aside, the only country that can challenge the US economically is China
3
u/my-opinion-about 2d ago
The only country, yes. But if the EU members will give more power to the EU then we can challenge both of them and we also have a good reputation unlike them to attract partners.
In fact this is one of the best opportunities to attract the rest of the world to be with us instead of US and China.
5
6
3
u/my-opinion-about 2d ago edited 2d ago
There is a big difference between US and West Taiwan. USA still has a chance to elect a decent president in the future, but not in the West Taiwan where dictatorship is the norm.
So long live the Republic of China (ROC).
5
u/Aggravating-Drive734 2d ago
I hate how a lot of Europeans are suddenly thinking China is a better alternative. It’s so selfish. Just because they’re not a direct military threat straight in your doorstep, it doesn’t mean they’re good.
Have you ever considered your concerns for Taiwan or south east Asia? What difference does it make with Russia and Ukraine?
1
u/Smalandsk_katt 1d ago
I'm not Taiwanese, that's their problem.
Also China, unlike Russia hasn't invaded Taiwan. Nothing suggests they will either, it's nothing more than an empty threat they use to rile up their population. There won't be any invasion of Taiwan within the next 10-20 years.
1
u/Aggravating-Drive734 1d ago
That’s what they said about Russia invading former Soviet republics before they actually did it. Your “that’s their problem” mentality is no different than the average Trump supporter then.
12
2d ago
[deleted]
→ More replies (3)5
u/Journalist_Candid 2d ago
If you believe in Taiwan, you need to up your defense spending. Just like Trumps been saying all along. There are no good guys in reality, only people who do stuff and those that don't.
13
8
u/shatureg 2d ago
Wait until the Chinese are trying to dump their resulting overcapacity here in Europe. This is going to be the real danger. The US tariffs are mostly a catastrophe for the US lol. Just let them destroy themselves. But China is going to be the real competitor for us.
5
u/FlounderHungry8955 2d ago
US is in a sense behaving the way it is because of China dumping into the country. EU has been smarter and not allowed this mass dumping, and kept some trade barriers to protect themselves
2
u/Sir-Alfonso 2d ago
I don’t think this US political phase will last as soon as they get a reality check.
1
u/Crytograf 2d ago
"overcapacity" doesn't exist. It just means they can build a lot of things for cheap.
1
u/FlounderHungry8955 2d ago
It means they lower the price below profit to dump the good because they've done too much fixed investment, making it impossible for industry to compete, helping the rise of the second Trump in EU
4
u/noewon101 2d ago
So Europe's answer to US acting like an autocracy is to trade with a country that is an actual autocracy?
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
→ More replies (1)
4
3
4
u/Tricky_Weight5865 2d ago
Completely the opposite for me, Chinese learned a lot from the Americans and from us Europeans. I have no doubt in mind that China would use equally destructive economic threats to get countries to comply with their policy and outlook once they are powerful enough.
Also, the actual brainwashing of entire generations to specifically hate Europeans doesnt exactly help. They are still hostile in every step of the way, they just tried to throw the EU a bone, so it would forget. Plus there is the upside of the US system, every single one of Trumps retarded policies can be reversed with the next administration. Its chaotic but at least a change is possible. Compare that to China lmao.
1
u/Talmirion 15h ago
I may be wrong, but I believe that what remains of the democratic USA will be gone in a short time, either they turn into an autocracy as Trump is aiming for, or there will be a civil war resulting in different new countries, with some of them being democratic indeed.
7
u/Equal-Ruin400 2d ago
Europeans trying not to run to their next sugar daddy instead of building up themselves challenge: 100% impossible
3
3
3
3
u/ThatOtherFrenchGuy 2d ago
Hum no they have killed our Steel industry, solar industry and are now killing our EV brands while the EU does nothing.
3
3
3
3
u/passionatebreeder 2d ago
Europeans getting excited over the prospect of cooperating with authoritarians?
Why, tbat wasn't happened in at least.... 80 years
2
2
u/Gammelpreiss 2d ago
uhm...disliking someone does not make me suddenly like someone else who is equally or more fucked up.
2
u/jimmy1295 2d ago
Not quite. It’s just that the anti-US sentiment currently overshadows most of our negative sentiments towards others including PR China, maybe except Russia. It certainly also doesn’t make what the CCP does better than before.
Though, I personally have become more open to the idea of us becoming economic allies with them out of necessity.
2
u/Temporary_Panic7364 2d ago
Why not both?
The uyghur people are suddenly not getting less genocided just because the U.S is throwing around with shit
2
2
u/Sagaincolours 2d ago
USA, Russia, and China all suck. The only difference to me is that China suck in a predictable way.
2
2
2
2
u/demonotreme 2d ago
Nice try Huang, neither Americans or Chinese seem to be able to comprehend the word "non"
2
5
u/Cautious_Ad_6486 2d ago
LOL, exactly how I feel.
Yet, we need to approach China with... caution.
Their government is definitely questionable and they are the OG of unfair trade practices.
It is awesome that they now look as wonderful partners just because they act like grown adult human beings.
3
3
1
u/rudosmith Hungary 2d ago
The problem was never whether we’re willing to trade with dictatorships: we’ve gladly bought oil from all kind of dictatorships and authoritarian regimes, France still has the CFA Franc as a form of Neo Colonialism (controls the monetary policy of more than 10 African countries.) Nobody’s a saint.
The problem with Trump is that he abuses his absolute power and he doesn’t respect signed contracts. He breaks them. He’s not a good business partner, he’s unreliable.
1
u/Hermanstrike 2d ago
Just look at how other taxe product from us. If we want reduce taxe from America we should also do the same and at least that can be a benefit for all people.
1
u/poopscoop_4 2d ago
PRC fucking sucks in its own ways but at least they don’t make it everyone else’s problem (unless you live next to them)
1
u/Neureiches-Nutria 1d ago
China: hey we are only torturing our on people and are actually quite likeable as long as you bring money in our Accounts. Compared to the competition we are basically the good guys...
So you mean the least dangerous to my wellbeing?
Yes , as we said the good guys
1
u/evasive_dendrite 1d ago
Don't forget Trump's human right abuses. He's dismantling democracy and selling presumably innocent people off into labor camps without due process.
1
u/whateveridgf 1d ago
Could y'all stop with the Chinese propaganda, yeah the us sucks but we shouldn't pretend that Xi is any better
1
u/EatingKidsIsFun 1d ago
I don't Like how America is currently but i Sure as hell don't and will never Like how the ccp operates.
1
u/EmporerJustinian 1d ago
I would much prefer, if we just didn't have to deal with both. That's why we need European unity and strategic independence.
1
u/Nikkonor 1d ago
Aspiring dictator trying to turn his country into a dictatorship: Bad.
Already established brutal dictatorship: Also bad.
1
u/Snake_Plizken 1d ago
Still hate China, and Russia very much, I just added USA to the list. The rest of the worlds western democracy's should band up and create a unified single market like the EU, only with Canada, Australia added. Then we should limit trade with all non democratic nations, why give worker jobs, and money to China if they use the money to help Russia destroy democratic nations?
1
u/andybossy 1d ago
already have some chinese electronics: Glory to the CCP and its visionary Chairman Ci Jinping, may he live long and prosper
1
1
1
u/TheAPBGuy 1d ago
Is there any objectively bad thing about State-Capitalistic China other than a fckn cultural genocide? They have progressive taxation, pulled out 800 Million people out of poverty and provide universal public healthcare, keep the inequality relatively small, ensure universal free healthcare and general welfare + a Merit-Based Social Credit System
I prefer (a democratic version of) State Capitalism over laissez-faire Capitalism
1
u/slinkyshotz 1d ago
yup.
Be it America, Russia, China, Europe... they're only "good" by comparison to the other.
And boy oh boy, did America go suddenly bad.
Now I may be biased, as an european, but apart from the European values, China sure as hell lookin' nice right now. They're not invading their neighbors, not devolving into fascism & not starting trading wars. That's great... in 2025
1
u/EcureuilHargneux 1d ago
Honestly, aside the current regime in China, I find the Chinese history and culture far more worth of respect and admiration than the American one
1
1
u/BlerghTheBlergh 1d ago
You can dislike both though. America is starting to go down the route China took ages ago but that doesn’t mean you should look at China with any less scrutiny.
Best case scenario: buy European, Canadian and from other friendly states
1
u/Particular-Star-504 1d ago
The ones who are keeping Russia fighting, and have just retaliated with more tariffs (they already had very protectionist policies)?
1
u/glitterdunk 1d ago
Oh, yes. I see China is doing some rounds of propaganda again.
China, the country with massive surveillance and "points" indicating how good a citizen you are. The place where if you're in a line, people who consider themselves better than you can just skip ahead of you, and generally demand you yield to their greatness.
The country with concentration camps where people with the 'wrong' ethnic background facial features are placed and never seen again.
China, that would like nothing more than to invade quite a few countries around them (in the first round) and make them just as shitty as their own to live in.
China, that started a world wide pandemic because they would rather KILL the scientist noticing it, than stopping it.
China, that would like nothing more than to ruin countries and take their resources exactly like Russia.
What a joy of a wonderful country! 👍
Just because USA has gotten worse, that doesn't mean China has gotten better.
1
1
u/Smalandsk_katt 1d ago
Lol bunch of suicidal morons in the comments. It's either China or nothing lol, we don't exactly have an alternative.
1
u/Toilet_Reading_ 1d ago
I turned pro China yesterday. When they clapped back at turdface trump, I literally applauded.
1
1
u/sick_build723 1d ago
At least none of these (US, China, Russia) are good partners. There should be a axis of defense and free trade from Canada to Europe, Japan, South Korea and Australia. Maybe Africa and some muslim States too.
1
u/Maverick122 1d ago
Imagine not caring for all the wars of aggressions and black ops the US did and still follow their Anti-Russia and Anti-China propaganda, but when a guy with a weird complexion establishes comparativly harmless tariffs, that's when you draw the line.
This is disgusting on so many levels.
1
1
u/Feisty_Baseball_219 1d ago
Remember, just cos one is being an asshole doesn't make the bad one any better
1
1
1
1
u/Alive-Clothes-3898 1d ago
redditor forgives dictatorship for genocide and concentration camps because orange man bad.
more news at 11. lefties give 0 fucks about actual human rights issues
1
1
u/dumb_potatoking 1d ago
Trump even managed to bring together Japan, South Korea and China, in their mutual dislike for him. China and Korea have really good reasons to hate Japan, so the fact that they are now working together is quite something.
1
u/Upset_Ad_8434 1d ago
I don't think that improving our relation with Taiwan is gonna do much against these tariffs.
1
1
1
u/AssignmentChoice762 22h ago
TLDR for the thread :
"Trade deficits and tariffs are great as long as they're in our favor. We don't like them at all when they're balanced."
1
1
u/Opposite-Chemistry-0 16h ago
Still not a fan but at least you know what comes in the package you order
1
1
1
u/Exciting_Turn_9559 9h ago
As a Canadian, my choice is to buy from an authoritarian regime that is a global leader in clean technology which has seldom shown any interest in territorial expansion and an authoritarian regime that doesn't believe in science and has threatened to annex my country. It's not a hard decision to buy from China instead of the US, I just wish there weren't stupid tariffs on chinese EVs in Canada, because a lot of their cars are awesome.
470
u/New-Ebb-8357 2d ago
I'm still no fan of the PRC