r/Economics • u/Majano57 • 1d ago
Editorial Your Life Will Never Be the Same After These Tariffs
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/opinion/trump-tariff-economics-cost.html?unlocked_article_code=1.9U4.mvEX.i70vr1NsFa6z1.5k
u/subduedReality 1d ago
Missed 2 things. Domestic producers will see less competition and raise their prices. Additionally, people are going to simply buy less stuff. Both of these things will have huge economic impacts as well.
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u/DJ_Jballz 1d ago
Yep, consumer spending is dropping already domestically and it’s gonna be a complete disaster. Businesses can raise prices if they want but no one is gonna be buying anything non essential anyway.
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u/PIG20 1d ago
It's that chain effect which is what really makes a recession set in.
Should be interesting to see how this one compares to 2007/2008.
Back when that happened, the Fed had ways to combat the problem by lowering interest rates and companies were in turn running zero percent interest financing and lowering prices on many goods.
This time around, we have high inflation, no real wriggle room for the Fed to do anything on their end, and the tarrifs which will in turn force steady high inflation rates and zero cooperation from global manufacturers.
So, if you're expecting long term low rates and prices from companies to help stave off a deeper recessionary period, it won't be there this time.
And another thing that will come with this is the absolute destruction of small businesses. They won't be able to compete whatsoever to the big box stores. They were decimated last time, this time, it will be absolute destruction.
When this man had billionaires lined up behind him and supporting his candidacy, this is why. They will win while everyone else loses. They can take the hit for a while and when the dust eventually settles, they'll be the only ones left.
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u/Piotr-Rasputin 1d ago
I've told everyone in my immediate family, HOLD OFF on any big purchases. Just the essentials. Jan and Feb taught me even eggs aren't essential (we used egg whites for a better/cheaper alternative)
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u/Ok-Package-7785 1d ago
This is 100% correct and there were a number of US companies who wrote letters of support for this policy. Smuckers was one of them. They didn’t like the competition from foreign companies, like Bonne Mamam. Instead of focusing on improving their product, they wanted a monopoly. I will never buy another product from them ever again and I encourage everyone to do the same.
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u/SaintBobby_Barbarian 1d ago
And most domestic producers will be net losers overall because of reciprocal tariffs abroad, so fewer people with jobs, thus less money being spent, and thus a greatly weakened economy. We are heading g towards self induced stagflation
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u/Slow_Supermarket5590 1d ago
Conservatism 101. Wreck what works, say it doesn't work, imbeciles agree and decide to make it worse.
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u/thedilettantegarden 1d ago
Yup. I’ve cut discretionary by 3/4 since late November and my darling new car -set to arrive in a few weeks- I’m walking away from to keep the $ in my pocket bc of the uncertainty.
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u/TalentIsAnAsset 1d ago
And, anything made with foreign parts from a country that’s been tariffed (all of them) will be waaay more expensive, soon.
So yeah - cars, electronics, most appliances.
Local businesses will also raise their prices, simply because this situation presents an opportunity to do so.
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u/anonandy1 1d ago
Not all spending is discretionary. And there very well could be a very short term surge in consumer spending to get ahead of price increases. Case in point, I just ordered a car seat that I was planning to buy this summer but want to get it ahead of any price increases.
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u/Sacarastic-one 1d ago
I went to Costco and geared up on food and essentials like we were all going to be in the depression line tomorrow. I felt insane doing it and maybe I’m being a bit freaked out. Then I talk to my coworkers who feel wildly optimistic about all this and they’re pointing out companies like Schneider investing $700m in manufacturing here - so then I feel like I’m even crazier because I’m the opposite of wildly optimistic
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u/nightlytwoisms 1d ago
I say this in as non-partisan a way as possible: your coworkers are gullible idiots.
Even if the $ amounts weren’t exaggerated press release numbers, all that investment requires stable markets to raise financing, which, uh
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u/Sigmund_Six 1d ago
Even if companies do invest in domestic manufacturing, it’s going to take years before they’re set up and functioning. We’re talking 5-10 years IF things go well. And we are in a very unstable period where things going well are not guaranteed.
There’s no harm in buying extra food as long as it’s non-perishable. If you’re buying Costco sizes and quantities, make sure you know how to store it.
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u/subduedReality 1d ago
So a spike before the slump...
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u/anonandy1 1d ago
Potentially. But I’ll be honest, I think many of these tariffs get whittled down to a digestible number (<15%) within the month. Trump fucked up here, the medium term impacts of this are catastrophic if these tariffs remain in place for 12 months. I do think that no matter what happens Trump just upended the world economic order and it will have consequences for a long time.
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u/UniqueIndividual3579 1d ago
The biggest consequence is the US went from the most stable to least stable trading partner.
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u/anonandy1 1d ago
Yeah agreed. And if these tariffs get cancelled or whatnot, how can any company have confidence investing right now? Whether it be in a foreign country or in the US?
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u/CauliflowerBig5643 1d ago
Same. The day after Trump got elected, I worried about the future and having enough necessities. A woman, in my building, just happened to have put up a hand writen sign stating revelations type stuff and imploring people to stock up on necessities - water, dry & canned goods. I have forgone the car, but spent the last 4 months stocking up a lot on water, dry & canned goods, meat to freeze. I feel vindicated and ½ sad and ½ intellectually superior to those who truly didn't see this coming and believe on Monday, Trump or anybody will stop this and it won't get exponentially worse. Trump's administration is just getting started, blaming each other and getting hiring advice from a Whites' Rights activist for a Defense department being run by a Christian Nationalist.
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u/funkygriffon 1d ago
I am buying less stuff and boycotting corporate big box stores in protest to what is happening. My plan is to do my part to starve the oligarchy of my money and attention. Boycotted Twitter years ago, off of meta platforms as of January, canceled Prime when they started adding ads to my paid for programming, shop small stores whenever I can avoid Kroger or Whole Foods.
Be part of the resistance!!!
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u/PoliticsIsDepressing 1d ago
It’s amazing how people don’t see your second point. People are going to be buying far less in the foreseeable future.
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u/Carthonn 1d ago
Also domestic producers will pay more for imported resources so raise their prices
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u/Difficult-Way-9563 1d ago
We can’t manufacture many things at scale compared to other places. Bananas, coffee many agricultural product we simply can’t do it.
Do we really want to manufacturing shoes like in early 1900s? We can’t compete in labor costs that’s why it’s done in other countries.
What we can manufacture are high tech and complex goods like biotechnology, antibodies, chips (Biden tried to get us start on this road but Trump just axed it), airplanes, and many other advanced products that requires skill laborers and educated labors.
Now trumps trying to get us to go back and trade these advanced products for simple widget manufacturings, while crushing American people and business with much higher costs.
I don’t understand how he and conservatives don’t see this destroying our country economically and financially for people. It’s all self inflicted and all because trumps philosophy (a crazy one) disagreement.
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u/_Jack_Back_ 1d ago
Don is driven by revenge. Other Conservatives are driven by profits. Eg when the farmers all go bankrupt, big agricultural corporations will be able to purchase their land. Land they would never have voluntarily sold.
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u/chotchss 1d ago
100% true. Even when we get a new administration and tariffs go away, America built a global economy centered around itself now key industries like defense and tech will be handled locally. And the dollar will lose status, impacting our ability to borrow. I firmly believe that the US will bounce back but it won’t be the single dominant player as before.
But it’s also an opportunity for us to fix a number of issues and to move beyond a quick consumption economy.
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u/ProgrammerAvailable6 1d ago
The US president also said - in the Oval Office and on camera - that the weapons they sell allies would be 10% worse than the stuff the US keeps for itself because the US might turn against allies militarily.
Then he demanded Greenland.
The rest of the world heard him.
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u/CascadeNZ 1d ago
Yup and I think that’s what Americans probably can’t fathom.
The globe was sold on this ideology of freedom and democracy and fairness and capitalism/free market improving your life. Yet we have seen the increasing go fund me pages for kids with cancer, video footage of whole mini cities of homeless people, and now realising the rest of that narrative was really only a facade. I see America now like I saw Russia in the 90s.
I’ll never ever buy into that again. I’m hoping a country emerges with a better world view maybe Bhutan have it right!
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u/antilittlepink 1d ago
Europe has the best work life balance and quality of life in the world by miles
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u/swirlybat 1d ago
and they are internally battling the fascist global takeover
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u/Ok-Technician-2905 1d ago
But I don’t know that they are winning it. Orban was the model for Trump, and populist parties are ascendant in most Western European countries now.
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u/DisasterNo1740 1d ago
I’d say Trump has single handedly destroyed the prospects of far right parties in Europe.
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u/Canadian_Kartoffel 1d ago
I thought Brexit killed any chance for Trump to win.
Then he did it twice.
Never underestimate the bigotry and stupidity of people.
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u/dadkisser 1d ago
You miscalculated because American voters are generally ignorant of world affairs, and even if they are aware, few of them connect the dots to their own lives. The Trump voters I know don’t have a clue what Brexit was, who did it, or its impact.
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u/ltmikestone 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s this. America is in a terrible place. Don’t believe it can’t happen to you and that it’s not well underway. We are 99% ape, and will often prove it.
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u/Minerva567 1d ago
I’m with you most of the way, but let’s give a round of applause to our close Bonobo cousins who do the delicioso to resolve conflicts and strengthen bonds, with females allying to control male aggression.
We’re brutal like chimps, just infinitely more creative in our cruelty and selfishness.
But, we should separate Bonobos from the needlessly-violent ape narrative, they’re the true ape model for how to coexist lol.
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u/delilahgrass 1d ago
I think Europe needs to hammer the nail in by curtailing the big social media sites - while Xitter, YT, Meta and Tik Tok are pushing this stuff we’re all in trouble. Putin learned early on how to weaponize it and the billionaires are happy to accept the $$
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u/MaineHippo83 1d ago
He's encouraging them and they are learning from him. Reform could win in the UK Le PEn was close to winning in France. AfD is charging in Germany.
Authoritarianism and world wars are in our future
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u/TheLostDestroyer 1d ago
As global climate change looms. This is what we will see more of. Make no mistake. All the world governments know what is coming. They've known for decades. When it starts to get really bad and people are starving en masse because agriculture isn't viable in the soil due to topsoil degradation and temps making agriculture simply not viable in certain parts of the world where it currently is.
I don't agree with what's happening but, this is why Russia wants Ukraine. it's why the US wants Canada and Greenland. This is about to become a war for resources on a planet that is quickly becoming hostile to humans.
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u/Crazy-Canuck463 1d ago
Europe can't collectively get off its ass and come to some form of concensus on aid to Ukriane. I love Europe and the EU, but the way it's set up, all they manage to do is have summits and meetings that end with no agreements.
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u/TeaKingMac 1d ago
Now you've discovered the terrible secret of (modern) politics.
The goal is get elected, do nothing, and collect money. Then get re-elected.
For a similar example, look at 90% of dems in the US right now.
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u/kawag 1d ago
It has only been 30 years since the end of the Cold War. The EU is being built relatively quickly, especially considering the need to integrate a lot of former communist countries and develop them, but it remains a collection of small countries rather than a single entity able to match the USA or China on the global stage.
But crisis forces people to act, and we are now clearly entering a new global era. It seems like there is strong apetite for further integration so the EU can work at the scale it now needs to.
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u/irvmuller 1d ago
I understand that free trade is partly to blame for where we are at today. I also understand, and probably give more credit to, unchecked capitalist greed however.
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u/mikeybee1976 1d ago
I would agree that free trade is to blame if it weren’t for one little thing; the US is the most powerful and wealthy country the world has ever seen. It’s corporations are the wealthiest. While I acknowledge the average worker hasn’t seen the fruits of this, the country as a whole has. So to me, it makes it very clear that the problem isn’t a service based economy vs a manufacturing one, it’s a distribution of wealth issue. Furthermore, if the US on shored a whole bunch of manufacturing tomorrow, the problem would not change because corporations are designed to maximize wealth, that’s what they do. All these companies “rushing back” to the states would still be paying the absolute minimum they could to retain staff and now more than ever, they have a federal government that will support them over workers.
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u/Dangerous-Ad-9269 1d ago
I agree 100%. Just look at Costco vs Walmart. Both companies Import items. Both try to sell goods as cheaply as possible. But Costco has a different view on how to treat workers and share profit. Resulting in highly paid workers at all levels. Wallmart believes in maximizing income of the top at the expense of the bottom.
If imports were the cause then we should see low level workers at both companies being paid poorly. But that is not the case. So it is other factors more than “china ripping us” off that is driving so many in the us to have so little.
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u/stratusmonkey 1d ago
It's easy to look around and see how free trade is bad. I get it. But people have no lived experience of how the alternatives were worse.
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u/Frylock304 1d ago
That's always been true, it's just saying the quiet part out loud. No country sells advanced arms that are just as good as what they have.
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u/TraumaticOcclusion 1d ago
That’s already the case, it is known that export vehicles/weapons/tech are lacking certain features deemed too sensitive to maintain a competitive advantage. That is nothing new
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u/ProgrammerAvailable6 1d ago
Yes.
But now we are worried that the US will brick the fighter jet we paid millions for.
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u/jrb2524 1d ago
Yeah people bitch and complain about globalism but the entire world economy and supply chain is or was geared to selling shit to Americans..it's why things like jeans TV's, electronics and a bunch of other stuff are dirt cheap here compared to other places.
It took 100 years to get to that point and rebuilding it would take another 100, but I think China is just going to fill the void and leap the US technology and economically because of this.
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u/irvmuller 1d ago
According to ASPI, China, not the US, is leading the world in 37 out 44 technologies. Here’s a link.
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u/swirlybat 1d ago
they can literally relocate entire warehouses in days. they are jetsons. we are flinstones
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u/nestestasjon 1d ago
That's what Americans who've never left their home state can't even understand. People are out here voting to bring back the 1950s while China is looking ahead and building for the next century.
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u/jrb2524 1d ago
I took my very conservative in laws on a trip to China they live in cedar rapids Iowa and they where mind fucked by bullet trains and the new air port in Beijing.
I also find it funny that the US is trying to shift back into a manufacturing society while China is trying to be what the US is now a service economy.
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u/sometimeswhy 1d ago
Canada has learned it’s lesson never to trust in the concept of NA integration. It makes a ton of sense but only when sensible rules apply
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u/ProgrammerAvailable6 1d ago
And the second the American people elect an asshole like trump it can hurt us.
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u/hardsoft 1d ago
I'm hoping this will eventually lead to some changes to help limit that. The president is way too powerful.
For example, the next admin working with Congress to pass law removing the presidents ability to pass tariffs under any situation should help go some way in winning trust back.
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u/Lurky-Lou 1d ago
Congress has that power now!
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u/hardsoft 1d ago
True and maybe a possibility if things get really bad. But they'd need a veto proof majority which seems unlikely.
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u/PalmettoZ71 1d ago
It is pretty wild how much power the president can weild with EO and it would be nice to restrict it but I fear both parties may enjoy the power when they have it... there is a group suing trump that these tarrif EO are unconstitutional so will be fun to see if that gets anywhere
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u/wayne099 1d ago
TikTok is banned by congress and Supreme Court withheld it but TikTok is still available. I don’t think court can force Trump to do anything when he controls DOJ.
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u/shiftysquid 1d ago
I said when Biden was running that if he dedicated himself during the campaign to: a) being a one-term president with a pledge to pass the torch to a younger candidate in 2024; and b) work with Congress to pass a bipartisan "Presidential Powers Reform Act" that would rebalance the Legislative and Executive powers, he had a chance to leave a pretty incredible legacy of being both selfless with power and helping to prevent someone power-hungry like Trump from having nearly as much of a chance of running rampant again.
It was probably asking too much, but I had hope the Democrats could try to anticipate what powers a Trump-like future president would try to abuse and pre-emptively give some of that up. With a Democratic president in office, they almost certainly could have gotten Republican buy-in on things like restoring all tariff-setting power with the Legislative branch again.
But, of course, nobody willingly surrenders powers that they have.
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u/CallmeishmaelSancho 1d ago
Consumer consumption is the major driver of the US economy (68%). The proposed tariffs will have a greater impact on end prices than the raw number due to importer price margins. EG, a 10 dollar item with a 25% tariff will cost the importer. If the importer’s margin is 40% the pre tariff cost to the consumer would be 14 bucks. (40% of 10 is 4 bucks). With the tariff that good now costs the importer 12.50, (10 to foreign manufacturers, 2.50 to government) plus the 40% mark up and the cost to the consumer is now $17.50. If everyone believes these tariffs are permanent, then local producers will target an end price under 17.50 ( substitution theory) but above 14 dollars. For economic historians this is all very interesting and we will see how it all shakes out. My guess is wages have to go up to maintain living standards due to inflationary pressures or the standards of living will have to decline. The President’s cancellation of the Maxar satellite data to the Ukraine was a huge red flag to the world about using US technology and the negative implications for US manufacturing will be larger than tariffs over the coming decades.
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u/PracticableSolution 1d ago
Your last comment resonated the most. Every time I see a another self storage facility sprout out of habitable land, I cringe for all the disposable shit shoved into it as a priority over housing
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u/chotchss 1d ago
We have huge, low quality houses that we pack full of “Live, Love, Laugh” signs and disposable trash. We fill the emptiness with crap and then wonder where our money went. Or we buy all sorts of low quality junk food and wonder why everything tastes like shit today.
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u/Purplebuzz 1d ago
Your trading partners will never trust America again. They will build relationships with other countries and prioritize those relationships. America is very shortly going to have to deal with national food insecurity and unrest. Which may be part of the plan.
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u/raging-peanuts 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m actually optimistic that some years down the road Americans in general will look back on this era with shame and ask, “What the Hell were we thinking?”
Some other poster made a comment about MAGA gear being only found in grandparents attics in the future. I just wish we could speed run to that time.
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u/Available_Top_610 1d ago
He won by less than 2.5 million votes. Our issue was the people who didn’t vote. The states are very gerrymandered. There is discrepancies in the election in PA and NV that are being overlooked.
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u/SaintBobby_Barbarian 1d ago
Only if we suffer greatly. Until that happens, his base will never learn
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u/chotchss 1d ago
Yeah- sometimes you need to take a step back to move forward. I think we're in for hard times but I'm also thankful that MAGA is so fucking stupid that they will fail and we will be able to build a better future.
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u/RustyDawg37 1d ago
Well said, the idea of tariffs themselves isn’t the worst thing anyone’s done. The execution however, may be.
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u/chotchss 1d ago
Markets can work with tariffs, but not completely dumbfuckery and total randomness
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u/Myhtological 1d ago
I believe we’ll be still at least be the top of the dominant players. Because we’ll remain the largest import economy.
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u/random_encounters42 1d ago
The rest of the world is watching in awe at the ridiculousness of Trump. Everyday we think this can’t be serious, and he somehow finds a way.
Yes we’ll be impacted too but most of us can live without the USA.
I don’t know how long Americans can live like his watching their president literally destroying their country every time he opens his mouth. It’s been only 4 months and there’s 4 years of this.
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u/HSIOT55 1d ago
I've become emotionally numb to it. Every day I wake up I ask "What now?" hoping something will give.
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u/Huge_Rich522 1d ago
Please try not to become numb. We need activism. That’s how racist regimes end. We need you to show up to every protest you can and participate in every form of resistance that you can afford. Write and call your reps. Download the 5 calls app; it makes it SO easy. If we don’t do these things, we are complicit.
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u/darth_jewbacca 1d ago
I look to the news hoping to see a Republican resistance. Now that they know he's not just kidding, it has to start sometime, right? How many of them have to lose their jobs and homes before that happens?
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u/nestestasjon 1d ago
All of my European friends seem outraged and are baffled. I've had friends reaching out to me like WTF??? But here in the US, it seems like all of my (liberal) friends are numb. Idk how it is around the rest of the country, but here in SF it seems like no one is really talking about any of this.
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u/catdog1111111 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s the propaganda machine. I try to talk reasonably to folks I know (who are minorities and/or comfortable but not exactly rich), and they respond with MAGA talking points. My friends and family believe Trump admin are doing a good thing shutting down the “welfare country”, creating manufacturing jobs, and that Trump is a good man. I hear what they gotta say and am just speechless because these are not who I considered folks who’d beleive these things.
I’m going to position my resources to help weather the storm (even if we won’t fully recover after the storm), while they continue on blind hope that things are going to improve. Like I told ‘em to “save your money” but they’re burning through their recent windfall (from SSA) like it’s not going to end. They simply didn’t believe me when I said don’t depend on social security. If people disregard my polite advice because they have blind faith in trumps support of welfare, I’m the crazy person if I let it turn into an argument let alone a protest. They denounce welfare while heavily relying on Medicare, what can you do?
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u/JRLDH 1d ago
We are numb because the political alternative is incredibly weak, silent and lazy.
The three most powerful opinion leaders, Fox News, Meta/Facebook/Instagram, X are all firmly brainwashing everyone with MAGA.
The right did everything right from a propaganda point of view. That’s why we are numb. Talk to family that is caught up in that propaganda world. They love Trump.
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u/Feeling-Yak-5686 1d ago
As Americans, it's really a simple binary choice. Live with it or Die in a Rebellion.
Things currently are nowhere near bad enough for people to be willing to Die, so we are just living with it.
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u/blank-planet 1d ago
Well, you could start by trying to protest first.
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u/Forgotlogin_0624 1d ago
There are protests all over the US today. Thing is those are ignored by those with power, and are crushed by the state if they even slightly disrupt anything.
2020, and it’s failure to have any sort of real impact on society kind of broke people here. We asked for police reform and all they gave us was symbolic acts of inclusion, which they are now undoing.
Most of us no longer see a way out other than what Luigi chose. And even that is not a victory, it’s just a last stand.
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u/blueskies8484 1d ago
There are protests nationwide today. They have been ongoing. The press barely covers them.
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u/Devium44 1d ago
Dude get out of here with that crap. Many many people have started protesting and they are only building in popularity. These condescending comments that completely ignore what is going on help nothing.
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u/blank-planet 1d ago
I believe you. That shows that things aren’t binary. It’s not either living with it or DYING. You can protest.
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u/Msfcarp1 1d ago
Many of us in the US watch in awe also, Unfortunately we are having to live it out.
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u/Huge_Rich522 1d ago
My husband and I are planning our exit. It will take a while, but we are working on dual citizenship so we can leave. We voted against this and don’t deserve this BS. MAGAs can have it.
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u/Available_Top_610 1d ago
moving abroad may not work, this isn’t the only country dealing with Far right issues.
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u/LittleMsSavoirFaire 1d ago
I can't fucking believe that of all possible examples he chose switching to substandard guacamole. This is going to be the choice between groceries and clothing.
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u/Careless-Maize-8915 1d ago
There is also a huge loss of productivity going on in the corporate world right now. Everyone has to drop what they’re doing to work out the tariff exposure and strategies on how to mitigate. So many people aren’t doing their normal job because of this, which I expect will be felt for some time. I.e. missed deadlines, opportunities, issues, etc.
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u/herecomestherebuttal 1d ago
That’s a great point. So much wasted work getting thrown out the window hourly, because of this batshit crazy pace of seismic changes.
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u/Grifasaurus 1d ago
My brother in christ. My life hasn’t been the same since i was fucking 7 and those fucking saudi terrorists crashed two planes into the goddamn world trade center.
It hasn’t been the same since the fucking global economy got shithoused in 2008. Or when katrina nearly wiped out my hometown in 2005.
It’s been one shitshow after another for as long as i can remember and it’s honestly getting incredibly tiring.
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u/limma 1d ago
I suppose you could argue that your life, then, has been the same - it’s an unending barrage of shitty events. Being a millennial sucks because we saw how great everyone else had it and always grew up thinking, “where’s mine?”
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u/BlackDeath3 1d ago
Kind of what I was thinking when I saw the title.
"But what is 'the same', really?"
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u/Radical_Coyote 1d ago
I’m sorry, making up the formula that “economic pain” scales as the square of the factor of tariff increases is based on no economic theory. To start the article with the claim that the author did “a calculation” to determine the pain would be 50 times as bad as last term is just… silly lol. But yes agreed it will be bad
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u/formerNPC 1d ago
I’m waiting for the “almost billionaires” to revolt. The people who own hotels,casinos, professional sports teams, high end restaurants and stores and tourist attractions. They rely on people having extra money to enjoy leisure activities and they will take a major hit when people don’t patronize their businesses. We will be struggling to pay for essentials and there will be no money left for anything else. After a brutal summer of no tourism then maybe they will finally confront the orange clown about it.
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u/BaronVonBearenstein 1d ago
The NYT have awful reporting of Trump and his tariffs. I have been a listener of NYT podcast The Daily for years but their coverage of Trump, and in particular this trade war, has been nauseating. Their coverage of the tariffs on Canada was awful, never once mentioned the impact it would have on Americans and instead only focused on the impacts on Canada and how much it would suffer.
Their more recent episode on the global tariffs talked about the "strategy" of the tariffs and how it all kind of makes sense for Trump. It's absolute garbage, I had to turn it off.
If this is the kind of media Americans consume (I'm not American) then it's no wonder they believe all the stupid shit they're fed from Fox News and the Trump administration. The ignorance is honestly astounding.
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u/MikeW226 1d ago
Yeah, NYTimes is probably worried daily that they'll report something causing them to run afoul of trump. So they play the middle. Normal people know it's tepid, and republicans call it anti-trump even if it's completely slanted Pro-trump. Yet they want to ride those add dollars --- running 12 headlines about orange dumpster at the top of the page every morning.
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u/Sea_Dawgz 1d ago
Look at the NYT trying to pretend they didn’t do everything they could to put trump in office.
Remind me again how many “Biden too old” stories ran vs “trump too old.”
Don’t click this garbage. It rewards them and their propaganda.
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u/rcbjfdhjjhfd 1d ago
Biden was too old. Democrats waited too long to pull him. There should have been a primary to find the best candidate
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u/berkingout 1d ago
That's fine but the media presented it as purely a biden probably when trump was also way too old
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u/ozonejl 1d ago
Yeah. Trump is almost exactly the same age. At their advanced age, the few years that separate them are like nothing. AND while Biden rambles because of his age and speech impediment, Trump has ALWAYS had a tenuous grasp of the English language, because he’s a world-class idiot.
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u/Humble_Errol_Flynn 1d ago
The debate before Biden dropped out showed age had hit Biden far, far worse than Trump. If Trump is anyone’s fault (other than the people that voted for him) its on the DNC.
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u/berkingout 1d ago
Trump isn't more coherent than biden he's just louder
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u/Humble_Errol_Flynn 1d ago
Definitely go back and watch that debate
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u/berkingout 1d ago
I'm assuming you didn't also watch any of his campaign events or speeches afterwards? Dude literally had a bad night. You can also compare bidens debate to almost literally anything trump says and trump isn't any more coherent. Trump is louder and doesn't have a stutter but if you compare the meat of what they are saying, trump is loopy as hell.
Remember that shit about batteries and sharks?
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u/emp-sup-bry 1d ago
I thought Biden did a pretty defend job, though I was strongly in the Sanders camp. It takes a lot to shock me, but that debate was shocking and it was clear, in all later appearances, that any/all fears were warranted. Trump is an absolute moron and Biden was completely lost. It was sad.
Either he had some health event that was sudden or the people around him are true self serving scoundrels but their selfishness cost us…well, we are finding out.
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u/petit_cochon 1d ago
What? Trump is ancient and incoherent and has been for years. Biden was not at all worse lol.
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u/SuperShoebillStork 1d ago
Harris was still a much better candidate than Trump
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u/_lil_old_me 1d ago
And yet she literally never won a primary. I’m not saying she wasn’t fit, but Dems tried to crown her 100 days before the election and it didn’t work.
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u/Humble_Errol_Flynn 1d ago edited 1d ago
lol she got rinsed. Whether you think she’d be a better president is another matter. But she was an objectively terrible candidate who lost the electoral AND popular votes
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u/Strooperman 1d ago
Nope: fucking bullshit. She was fine as a candidate and would have been a normal president, some good some bad. It’s not her fault, or the DNC’s, it’s America’s deep, strong misogyny and racism. Sprinkled with a broken “both sides” media. Absolutely infuriating that the dems have to find perfect unicorn candidates to “WiN mY vOtE” while the republicans and their voters seem to have no agency and are just expected and allowed to act like cartoonishly evil, corrupt bastards.
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u/BrightSaves 1d ago
lost the electoral AND popular votes
Nope: fucking bullshit. She was fine as a candidate
This is exactly what is wrong with our democratic party right now. We put up a terrible candidate without a primary and she gets absolutely swept, and your attitude is "everyone else is wrong and dumb."
Have some humility for christ's sake. ask yourself why our team isn't winning, esp in the face of such horrible candidates on the other side.
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u/AmethystRayne84 1d ago
As an outsider, this take is what is actually wrong with American Democrats. She wasn't a terrible candidate, but Trump was. The problem was that she wasn't perfect, like Bernie or Obama or whoever your exact perfect candidate would've been. Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line, and until Democrats realize that the enemy of the good is the perfect, you'll keep fighting yourselves harder than you fight the Republican candidate, no matter how bad that candidate is or the damage they could potentially cause. I'm not in love with PM Carney but I'm sure as hell voting, calling and door knocking for him because the cost of the Conservative unknown is too high for me. I'm pragmatic and realistic, and completely expect for Carney to do things I don't like. And am still voting for him.
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u/Stripcartoon 1d ago
This election was about saving the country from Trump. Voters failed to recognize what was at stake.
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u/AintNobodyGotTime89 1d ago
It's kind of amazing how many voters just didn't want to believe what Trump was saying.
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u/Honest_Ad5029 1d ago
The problem is that since 2008, neoliberalism has been a zombie ideology. Anyone selling neoliberalism has a tough time. People dont want it and you can't make them want it.
The tea party and occupy wall street grew out of 2008. The right incorporated the tea party into their mainstream, the liberals squashed occupy wall street. Ron Paul had enthusiasm, squashed by the RNC. Bernie Sanders had enthusiasm, squashed by the DNC.
You can't fuck with people's enthusiasm. And you can't manufacture enthusiasm. And terror is no replacement for enthusiasm.
Americans got their first experience of a robust welfare state, a non neoliberal state, during covid when everyone got money to live. People loved it. People were able to plan for their future, even in that calamity. And then Biden took those benefits away. And everyone felt poor again and fondly remembered how they had cash in hand when trump was in office.
It's been an incredibly stupid couple of decades, politically. The capture of our governance by oligarchs precedes me, but I've seen the metastisizing of the cancer directly.
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u/_lil_old_me 1d ago
No that was 2020, you get to pull that card exactly once in the eyes of voters. After that you’ve got to make a genuine argument that resonates with voters why you should run the country.
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u/DHakeem11 1d ago
Voters are getting what they asked for, the Democrats warned them, Kamala warned them, Biden warned them, even Obama came back and warned them.
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u/_lil_old_me 1d ago
Literally yes. He won the popular vote, this is what the American people wanted.
However I think Dems need to transition from “wealthy hero leader figures tell you what you need to do” and pivot more towards “building a big grassroots movement of supporters who encourage each other”. Frankly Trump takes the second approach; say what you will about his policies but he leads by building an authentic movement, and then using that base of power to effect the change he wants. Dems could’ve learned this from Bernie, but the party bigwigs are too afraid to cede power (IM personal O).
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u/Stripcartoon 1d ago
Well that’s an arbitrary rule. I’d say you get to pull that card each time Trump runs. In fact you must pull that card. Evidently so.
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u/pperiesandsolos 1d ago
Nope, have you heard of the boy who cried wolf?
That’s not only a story, but also a metaphor that you can apply to the current situation.
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u/DHakeem11 1d ago
Maybe it's voters that should have some humility and admit they turned down a great candidate for the shit show that we all see now. That said America has the president it deserves, good luck!
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u/Xeynon 1d ago
Sorry, but anybody who voted for Trump over Harris is very obviously wrong and dumb.
That's not to say that Harris was a perfect candidate (she wasn't), but she was within the bounds of normality. The electorate being diseased and the media being broken were absolutely factors and if you don't realize that you have some thinking to do.
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u/SkotchKrispie 1d ago
She didn’t get swept. They replaced Biden too late in a situation that was without precedent. She lost by a percent in the popular vote and by very small margins in the swing states she needed.
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u/menghis_khan08 1d ago
She was the only candidate, because she was on the same ticket as biden, so she was legally the only one who would use the already donated biden-kamala campaign money of $240 million. There was no other choice, no way to raise funds and run ads, etc due to biden dropping out so late.
She was a better candidate than biden but yes, she was a terrible candidate - and the Dems have themselves to blame for not pulling the cord on biden much much earlier so that they could have run a proper primary.
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u/emp-sup-bry 1d ago
And we knew this from the time she didn’t make it through a quarter of the primary and then disappeared for four years. I was always of the notion that Biden took her on as a political agreement and then gave her unwinnable position (border czar) and disappeared her as a punishment for calling him out in that debate. She did NOTHING as VP, despite being the clear heir apparent.
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic 1d ago
. She did NOTHING as VP, despite being the clear heir apparent.
Most VPs do nothing, the only thing in the job description is to stay alive and be ready to serve if called upon. And I guess break ties in the Senate.
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u/rcbjfdhjjhfd 1d ago
She got her ass handed to her so it’s irrelevant. The only thing that matters in this stupid system is who will get more votes.
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u/No-Brain9413 1d ago
What does that mean, ‘Biden was too old’?
The subtext is that his age would prevent him from operating effectively as the Executive, is there anything in particular you think his age impacted?
To be clear, Biden was not the oldest man elected president as that title belongs to his successor
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u/emp-sup-bry 1d ago
Yes. Yes, he was FAR too old. Whether he had a health event or it was just hidden until it couldn’t be, it was clear he had significant expressive language challenges (and from the ‘lost’ look on his face, likely receptive as well). That’s not an uncommon thing for fucking 80 year olds.
Not to even get into the idea that the dnc could have used youth vs old in attacking Trump, but Biden prevented use of that strategy. Trump is way too old as well. It’s unlikely he makes it to end of term without a similar event.
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u/rcbjfdhjjhfd 1d ago
Are you being intentionally obtuse? His mental health rapidly deteriorated with his advancing age. He could barely talk. Him and Mitch McConnell could win staring tournaments
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u/ManInManchester16 1d ago
Well he stopped being able to talk good or make coherent points. That seems like something of a detractor. Trump delivered us to hell, but the DNC were his lead blockers.
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u/genX_rep 1d ago
I've been waiting a decade for my Democrat primary vote to matter in PA. Seems like the party decides their candidate before it gets to us every time. No surprise here at all when they lose after completely ignoring who would do well here or not. Trash primary process.
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u/BlueRoller 1d ago
This is also on the dem party. In 2023 there should have been a plan that wasn't Biden or Harris.
I'm not confident they figure it out next time either, based on how they have responded so far.
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u/Deofol7 1d ago
Fair enough.
But the voters still should have made the simple and sensible choice between Harris and Trump. Stability and sensible policy vs chaos.
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u/BlueRoller 1d ago
It's still a failure to expect an uneducated voting base to vote for someone who was basically silent for the prior 4 years of their 1st term as VP. Picking her as a VP in the first place was dangerous.
They need a complete overhaul but no one wants to give up power and control.
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u/Deofol7 1d ago
Fair enough
But there was still a very easy and more impactful choice in November for the country to make. We chose this.
No sense blaming the Democrats because we can't choose a "basically silent" stable continuation of normal economic and foreign policy over the Jan 6 guy.
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u/pends 1d ago
It makes complete sense blaming a party if they can't beat Trump, actually.
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u/Deofol7 1d ago
Do you blame the Republicans for not being able to beat Trump?
Why didn't they primary him with a stronger candidate?
Why did they betray their values for him?
None of it matters though. All of us chose this together. Anyone playing the blame game is just trying to make themselves feel better instead of facing the fact that we are a really, really dumb fucking country
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u/pends 1d ago
Do you blame the Republicans for not being able to beat Trump?
Yes, of course. The subset of them using him opportunistically are cowards and traitors who care more about having power than their beliefs.
None of it matters though. All of us chose this together. Anyone playing the blame game is just trying to make themselves feel better instead of facing the fact that we are a really, really dumb fucking country
Knowing why something happened does matter in terms of trying to prevent it from happening again.
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u/anagrammatron 1d ago
Knowing why something happened does matter in terms of trying to prevent it from happening again.
Really? You guys elected Trump for the second time. How many lessons do you need?
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u/RoyStrokes 1d ago
No, I totally blame democrats, are you kidding? They railroaded a candidate that no one chose, and lost to the party that actually caters to its base. They also didn’t get Trump prosecuted quickly enough while they were in power, or do anything about his involvement in J6. The Democratic Party is apathetic to its own base and that’s why they lose. They have a larger voting base that the GOP but can’t ever pull it together bc of this.
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u/-XanderCrews- 1d ago
Once again people are blaming the democrats for the republicans actions. Why does the democrats need to give every single citizen exactly 100% what they want or they will vote Republican? Why is whatever the republicans are going to do not matter at all? People constantly put all of the responsibility on the democrats and demand zero from the republicans.
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u/BlueRoller 1d ago
They don't need to give 100% but if they expect turnout they need to be something more than just the alternative to an extreme. Republicans turn out regardless of candidate, they don't really care about much of the issues. Democrats do, like it or not if you want them to turnout you can't trot out a wet blanket.
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u/_lil_old_me 1d ago edited 1d ago
What a pathetic and cowardly take. Dems could have run a serious contender in 2020, but instead they tried to get a third Obama term because they’re unwilling or unable to develop new ideas. I said then that if we elected Biden in 2020 we’d get Trump in 2024 and I got the same obnoxious response as you put in your comment: don’t rock the boat or Trump will win. If Dems had done their job and developed new faces with genuinely new leadership philosophies I have zero doubt we could’ve taken both ‘20 and ‘24 no problem. Instead we tried clinging to same tired neolib platforms that they’ve been flogging for two decades and look what we got. And to be clear I have checked the blue box every single election since I could vote, I’m as loyal a voter as you will find for the Dems. Sucks that this consideration isn’t returned
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u/10albersa 1d ago
Doing what you said they should do would have been propaganda… they’re a journalistic entity, not an arm of the Democratic Party
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u/sifl1202 1d ago
biden WAS too old, and he was never going to beat trump. so any alternative was better.
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u/RangerFluid3409 1d ago
Clearly not
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u/Narren_C 1d ago
We'll never know, but I'd bet that Biden would have gotten even fewer votes than Harris. He was clearly no longer competent for that office, and the whole world saw it.
The democrats fucked up by just shoving Harris in there at the last minute instead of just having a primary.
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u/sifl1202 1d ago
Actually yes, since it was clear that Biden had zero chance to win.
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u/Longjumping_Echo5510 1d ago
I don't trust Trump's judgement on this whole tariff conquest the wife and I decided to pull back on any big ticket items and hoard some cash. Summer vacation will be simple drive by car stay in a independent owned hotel.
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u/ThisIsAbuse 1d ago
While many Americans are struggling with the high cost of everything - and this will make it worse, I think the biggest threat is Unemployment/Underemployment in a major recession.
If a large chunk of the consumers starts pulling back buying AND the world is boycotts American Products and military equipment - the companies will start laying more people off then they are right now.
If you loose your job - it is real SHTF. You might loose you home, you might cash in your smaller 401K to pay the bills, etc. We saw this in 2008-2009 and it was horrific.
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u/Ok_Shoe6806 1d ago
I’ve never felt the need to prepare for a disaster in my life. My wife and I just ordered 300lbs of rice and we’re going to continue to buy extremely shelf stable foods because we honestly don’t know if it’s going to get that bad. At least we have something to fall back on for a little while if it does. If it doesn’t and this all blows over we’re going to donate it to food shelters. I feel like a weird doomsday prepped.
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u/21plankton 1d ago
Trump usurped the power to change the tariffs and no one has reacted as yet to countermand that illegal act. The lawsuit challenging him was filed yesterday.
The congress has failed to act, being too cowed by Trump’s threats to take the appropriate action granted to them in the constitution.
In the interim the value of markets around the world has dropped significantly accepting the word of a madman. In reality nothing has changed. The tariffs have not yet come into effect.
Someone or something has to stop this mad and criminal assault on the world and its financial structure.
Our economic global structure is based on trust. I can now trust that structure will come to ruin in this country if Mr. trump is believed and followed.
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u/Feral_Nerd_22 1d ago
It's going to take a lot of ass kissing, apologies, and measures implemented in our constitution for our allies to repair our relationships.
They don't want this happening again, and the only way to prevent it is to limit and adjust what executive orders can be used for as well as more protections in our government for checks and balances.
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u/_Jack_Back_ 1d ago
This will not happen. This change is permanent.
Don has destroyed the post WWII economic and alliance.
As the French Foreign Minister said - we cannot be held hostage by a few voters in Wisconsin every 4 years.
Even Canada no longer looks at the US as a friend.
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u/BC_Samsquanch 1d ago
As a Canadian I concur. Everyone I know is avoiding the US now. Your only hope to repair our relationship would be immediate impeachment and even then it will take at least another couple election cycles for us to maybe trust you as an ally again.
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u/GottaGetAhead 1d ago
Life Was Never The Same Since Covid. Every Day Has Been Getting Worse And Worse. Why Is Every Word Capitalized In The Post? Sure Seems Bot'Ish
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u/Faux_Noob 1d ago
The first example he gives is unbalanced loads in a washing machine (just open and readjust). Shit article, but it seems everyone here just read the title and gave their preprogrammed response.
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