r/Futurology • u/ToffeeFever • Sep 10 '23

Energy Lithium discovery in US volcano could be biggest deposit ever found

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/lithium-discovery-in-us-volcano-could-be-biggest-deposit-ever-found/4018032.article
4.2k Upvotes

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186

u/elisun0 Sep 10 '23

That's exciting and im sure battery makers are breathing a sigh of relief. But I'll be be way more excited when all those lithium batteries are being recycled instead of ending up in landfills causing fires and other pollution.

125

u/DukeOfGeek Sep 10 '23 edited Sep 10 '23

It would have been nice if we had figured out a recycling scheme for those batteries when hundreds of millions of people bought some for their power tools.

Oh wait there is. https://li-cycle.com/

Funny how the huge piles of lithium ion batteries coming from homeowners and the construction industry were not a big concern, but as soon as those things kept people from buying fossil fuels "OMERGERD DE EN-VIRO-MENT!!11!!"

17

u/bplturner Sep 10 '23

Look at Redwood Materials — started by initial cofounder of Tesla to recycle the batteries.

5

u/SupposedlyShony Sep 11 '23

They are stating 95% of the precious metals are recovered, that’s nuts

3

u/bplturner Sep 11 '23

Yep — we extract all that stuff from ores which are wayyy less dense in materials. It’s very much recyclable.

3

u/BlackmailedWhiteMale Sep 11 '23

We will eventually go through the entire mining process all over again with our landfills.

6

u/GeminiKoil Sep 10 '23 edited Sep 10 '23

I think usually by the entrance door at Home Depot and possibly Lowe's is a little box you can drop batteries into. I asked the dude the other day when I was returning something if they take pretty much any battery, and he said yes. He said if it's questionable, just make sure it goes to the bottom of the container and walk away, it's going to get recycled either way.

Edit: those are big box hardware stores in the us. I'm not sure what the equivalent for those stores will be in other countries.

4

u/alohadave Sep 11 '23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xrarUWVRQ

It's a fairly simple process to recover the materials from the batteries.

8

u/PResidentFlExpert Sep 10 '23

Kinda sucks that their invest with us page doesn’t contain any information on how to invest with them. Ticker is LICY if anyone wants to buy some. Stock is in the shitter right now so it’s either a solid buy opportunity or the company is circling the drain. Opened at $10 at the end of 2020, ATH was $15, currently $5.

11

u/bplturner Sep 10 '23

They get a lot of cobalt and nickel out of the battery — not just lithium. I did some CFD analysis of their hydrogen venting system so I understand the process better than most.

9

u/Postheroic Sep 10 '23

They’re operating at a loss right now, only being carried by their massive amounts of cash on hand and assets. They’ve managed to expand greatly, however, and sales are indeed going up. Their last earnings reported -$0.20 per share, down from -$0.17 last quarter. They attribute their recent losses to the changing costs of cobalt and nickel. They’re doing quite a bit of business and expanding tho so I feel like there maybe a case for their future.

This one is kinda a teeter totter. Idk how I feel. Definitely on my watchlist now tho.

5

u/DukeOfGeek Sep 10 '23

I just picked one of the several companies using this tech pretty much at random. Point is tech already exists ahead of the time we really need it.

5

u/PResidentFlExpert Sep 10 '23

It’s a solid candidate but yeah the space is crowded and it’s hard to pick winners. I think metal reclamation has a viable business case but it’s hard to invest in as the winner will probably be whatever random company Tesla acquires whenever they decide to mature their recycling tech.

1

u/hsnoil Sep 11 '23

I think Tesla already recycles in-house, but if we are talking about likelihood of 3rd parties, wouldn't it be Redwood? I mean its started by a Tesla co-founder who is on good terms with Musk

2

u/oroechimaru Sep 11 '23

Abml/abtc, recyclic amyzf, sxoof, redwood and li

1

u/HairyManBack84 Sep 10 '23

Whew their financials are bad lol

1

u/oroechimaru Sep 11 '23

Abml, recyclico and sxoof too

Edit: redwood as well

26

u/phoenixmusicman Sep 10 '23

Jesus christ stop spreading misinformation, there are lithium recycling programs in place.

-9

u/elisun0 Sep 10 '23

Well yes, they exist. But currently 98.5% of all lithium batteries go to a landfill rather than to a recycling plant.

That's just a fact.

23

u/phoenixmusicman Sep 10 '23

This is an issue with people throwing their batteries away and nothing to do with the technology.

There are robust recycling programs in place, and the "muh batteries go to waste" is a common fearmongering/misinformation tactic pushed by petroleum companies.

Also, source?

-5

u/elisun0 Sep 10 '23

it was one of these studies. I'm sorry. I don't remember which one.

The tiniest bit of googling will show this concern isn't fear mongering. LIB pollution is a growing problem that needs to be addressed. I'm not saying we shouldn't move forward with electric car technology. But the batteries aren't conceived of or built with later processing hurdles in mind. The "robust" programs you say are in place are currently too few and far between to solve this problem.

If we had had the foresight to put environmentally sound practices in place and fund new ones as soon as we were aware of new problems our with oil/gas burning technology we wouldn't be in nearly as much trouble as we are now. Why is it so hard to prioritize having foresight on a new, growing industry before we get into even more trouble?

5

u/hsnoil Sep 11 '23

You are conflating 2 different things. When people say lithium ion batteries aren't recycled, they are talking about those tiny batteries found in wireless headsets and all kind of other electronics, not EVs. Even though its not your fault, the media loves to conflate the two thanks the the misinformation bribing of the fossil fuel industry

For EVs, recycling isn't a problem. And for 2 reasons, first most people get rid of their cars via trade in or through scrappers in case of crash. This is why 12v automotive batteries have the highest recycle rate of anything, 98-99%+. The 2nd reason is quantity, when you have all kinds of different electronics which different battery chemistry, its hard to recycle that. For EVs, it is much easier because you get a lot of quantity from each car, making it much more profitable to process. On top of that many EV vendors have closed loop recycle programs (like Tesla).

I will also note the in US, the IRA counts recycled battery materials towards domestic content requirements. And EU requires a % of the batteries to be from recycled content.

0

u/autoeroticassfxation Sep 10 '23

You got a source for that? Why would they just landfill all those valuable metals?

5

u/flamehead2k1 Sep 10 '23

"They" is the common citizen who doesn't give a shit and will just throw out their beard trimmer or smart watch once it is dead.

0

u/geek_fire Sep 11 '23

What should I do with my beard trimmer? It hardly seems like e-waste, but I'd prefer the battery be recycled if possible.

1

u/TobysGrundlee Sep 11 '23

It's e-waste.

1

u/geek_fire Sep 12 '23

Except most (maybe? Definitely true locally here in Washington State) won't take them as part of their e-waste program.

0

u/elisun0 Sep 10 '23

Soure is in a later comment but again, it is in one of these studies. Sorry I can't remember exactly which one.

12

u/Crotch_Football Sep 10 '23

This is an oil company talking point.

1

u/elisun0 Sep 10 '23

It is. Yes. It's also a legit concern.

If we had been concerned about pollution from the start of the internal combustion engine we wouldn't be in this much trouble today. Why is it so hard to say we should be concerned at the start of a new transportation-age?

These batteries are not being conceived of or built in a way that fosters easy recycling. So I'd like it if that changed! Also, let's give oil companies less ammo for their "talking points"

10

u/flamehead2k1 Sep 10 '23

Handheld devices result in a lot of wasted battery materials because the salvage value is pretty low.

A 50-100kwh car battery has a good salvage value which means most will be recovered and recycled.

We should develop a better system to recover materials from handheld devices but we shouldn't act as if car batteries will be disposed of in the same way.

2

u/loklanc Sep 11 '23

One thing that will help with hand held device batteries is making them removeable/replaceable. It's much easier to recycle a bunch of batteries already separated from their devices. Those new European laws can't come soon enough.

5

u/Crotch_Football Sep 10 '23

They don't need any truth for their ammo, just a story that sounds correct and people to repeat them. If you want the oil companies to stop spreading misinformation then you can start by not repeating it.

5

u/elisun0 Sep 10 '23

In THIS case it isn't misinformation. This 79 page EPA report documents dozens of waste management fires known or believed to be caused by lithium batteries. These fires cause more even pollution, including toxic burning plastic pollution.

We don't combat oil company talking points by ignoring serious issues. We do better and give them less legit stuff to talk about.

I'm all for LIB tech. We can have nice things that don't add more toxic pollution to our lives. We have to hold LIB tech companies to a higher standard than we did oil companies.

-1

u/Crotch_Football Sep 11 '23

And there is a medium for that discussion.

Instead of discussing the benefits that can come from this tech you are distracting from it. This is exactly how these ploys work and you are falling for it hook line and sinker.

1

u/Johnykbr Sep 11 '23

So repeating a reputable source is bad because...negativity?

-4

u/grundar Sep 11 '23

So repeating a reputable source is bad because...negativity?

No, because it's whataboutism which by design disrupts and derails conversations.

It's rarely used in good faith, which is why people tend to have limited patience for it.

3

u/Johnykbr Sep 11 '23

OC literally said that instead of talking about the benefits, it's detracting. That means we're not supposed to talk about bad things. I sure as hell hope you're not a problem solver in real life because to continue to refine a product or process involves acknowledging the negative aspects.

1

u/theStukes Sep 11 '23

Lithium battery recycling is an industry of its own, and it's growing.

0

u/ToSauced Sep 10 '23

too bad working conditions cant be terrible

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '23

We can make lithium like we can make lab diamonds. Also we won't need lithium in like 6 years when ASI comes up with far greater things

5

u/chfp Sep 10 '23

Wut? We don't "make" lithium. It's an atomic element that can only be transformed through fusion or fission. The amount of time and energy it'd take to "make" lithium would be impractical.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '23

Its easy, trust me