Tariffs, Trade, and Technology - Why Jobs Won't Be Coming Back To The U.S.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206]

This idea has been floating in my head lately and I'm curious what others here think.

We're seeing the U.S. walk away from long-standing trade relationships, especially with countries like China. Tariffs, re-shoring, and isolationist rhetoric - all of it feels like a big shift away from the globalized world we've depended on for decades.

What if there's a deeper reason?

What if we're burning those trade relationships because we simply won't need them anymore?

Between automation, robotics, and now Generative AI, we're rapidly developing the ability to do most of the work we used to outsource - and even the work we do domestically - without human labor.

Think about it:

• Automatic factories running 24/7
• AI replacing customer service, legal review, writing and design
• Domestic production that doesn't rely on wages, labor rights, or foreign supply chains

If that future becomes reality, why maintain expensive trade relationships when we can just automate everything at home?

I see two almost guaranteed outcomes:

1. Production will boom - massive output, low cost, high efficiency

2. Unemployment will boom - jobs (blue and white collar) disappear fast

Then what?

A few possible outcomes after that could be:

• Extreme wealth concentration - The companies that automate first will dominate. Capital will replace labor as the driver of value. The middle class shrinks as the lower class gets bigger.
• Government redistribution (UBI, wealth taxes) - Maybe we see UBI to keep society functioning but will it be enough, or even happen at all?
• A new two-class system - A small elite who own the machines and AI and everyone else who is non-essential. Could lead to mass unrest, political upheaval, or worse.
• De-globalization - No more need for cheap foreign labor > less global trade > more deopolitical tensions. Especially as developing economies suffer (this is because in order for developing economies to grow they need to make stuff and have people to sell it to).
• A new purpose for humans - Maybe we finally shift to creative, educational, and community-centered lives. This would requite a MASSIVE cultural transformation that wouldn't be an easy shift.
• Environmental risk - Automated production could massively accelerate resource extraction and emissions unless regulation keeps up.

This whole situation reminds me of the industrial revolution, but on steroids. Back then we had decades to adapt. This time It's happening in years. We've already had billionaires and world leaders come out and say thing like "many of the jobs today will be done by robots and AI in 10 years - like teachers and some medical jobs" -Bill Gates (paraphrasing).

What do you think? Are we heading toward an age where human labor is obsolete, and if so, what does that do to society, the economy, and the global order? Is this a dystopia, a utopia, or something in between?

Let me know,

Thanks.

[u/RedDogInCan]

why maintain expensive trade relationships

That's a pretty big assumption there.  Do you buy 'expensive' groceries from the store when you could simply grow your own for 'cheaper'?

Nobody is forcing anybody to trade - they do so voluntarily because it benefits both parties.

In Australia, we have an abundance of bauxite for making aluminium, more than we could ever use and we would just leave most of it in the ground.  The US doesn't have bauxite deposits so can't make it's own aluminum.  It benefits both countries if we sell our 'worthless' excess bauxite to the US so they can have the 'valuable' aluminum they need.

[u/MediumBicycle2971 → u/RedDogInCan]

Unfortunately Trump doesn’t understand (or more likely wishes to ignore) the concept of comparative advantage that you are describing. No country is an economic island in today’s world.

[u/RedDogInCan → u/MediumBicycle2971]

That's fine, we can just leave our bauxite in the ground for later on, it's not like it's going to deteriorate.

[u/Prior-Committee4589 → u/RedDogInCan]

Here in Iowa USA we will be leaving big piles of Corn and Soybeans on the ground this fall. Unfortunately it will deteriorate. Even when the rich landowners (farmers?) are bailed out we will still have big piles of grain rotting. Does not make any sense to me.

In the last 3 days 3 major manufactures in Iowa announced big layoffs (over 1000 jobs lost). John Deere is expected to do the same in a week are two. Tough times ahead.

[u/sweetteatime → u/MediumBicycle2971]

What’s were the tariffs Australia had on the US already and why?

[u/lachwee → u/sweetteatime]

Australia doesn't have tariffs on us goods, ausfta has been around for some 20 years and we've had free trade with the us the whole time.

[u/sweetteatime → u/lachwee]

It was a genuine question lol

[u/RaidingTheFridge → u/RedDogInCan]

Exactly I Saw a map of North America which showed what trees grew where and the lumber used for housing had this tiny amount In the US and then a MASSIVE portion of Canada had this tree.

Alienating trade partners is never a good thing simply because nautral resources don't occur everywhere equally naturally so even in a fully automated world, your robots can't pick coffee beans that can't grow in a specific part of the world.

Lets be real here, the jobs that AI is seeming to take first are the artistic jobs because it screws up the more mundane jobs more often than not but we're seeing AI art and music done reasonably well which is sad.

[u/Superb_Raccoon → u/RedDogInCan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauxite_mining_in_the_United_States

[u/kings789987 → u/Superb_Raccoon]

Off the wiki link . Bauxite mining in the United States produced an estimated 128,000 metric tonnes of bauxite in 2013.[1] Although the United States was an important source of bauxite in the early 20th century, it now supplies less than one percent of world bauxite production.

[u/kings789987 → u/kings789987]

Sorry if I break a rule replaying . I forgot this part?

Bauxite is the only commercial ore of aluminium, and 96 percent of bauxite consumed in the US is used to produce aluminum (metallurgical grade).[2] However, since 1981, none of the bauxite mined in the US was used to make metallic aluminium. US bauxite is instead used for abrasives, high-temperature refractory materials, and as a high-strength proppant for hydraulic fracturing of oil and gas wells.

[u/Superb_Raccoon → u/kings789987]

The US doesn't have bauxite deposits so can't make it's own aluminum

In case you forgot your original claim... and that what you just posed in the last 2 replies completely refutes your claim.

[u/RedDogInCan → u/Superb_Raccoon]

The US imports 500,000 tonnes of bauxite per quarter, plus another 325,000 of refined alumina per quarter.

https://d9-wret.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/media/files/mis-2024q4-bauxi.pdf

If you reckon the US can prosper with its 128,000 tonnes of annual production, let me know how that works out for you.

[u/Superb_Raccoon → u/RedDogInCan]

The US doesn't have bauxite deposits so can't make it's own aluminum

In case you forgot your original claim... and that what you just posed in this reponse is immaterial, and is an attempt to move the goalposts.

[u/pacexmaker → u/Superb_Raccoon]

So...128/(128+825*4) = 0.037.

So you're arguing over 4% here? The other redditors point still stands even if they were technically wrong.

This is why I can't reddit sometimes.

Updated my math.

[u/Superb_Raccoon → u/pacexmaker]

No, YOU are arguing.

I am just pointing out they made a claim of NONE.

4% isn't 0%, either, in case you flunked math.

[u/pacexmaker → u/Superb_Raccoon]

Oh I'm arguing, but you're just pointing stuff out. Got it.

[u/TheCrimsonSteel]

The challenge with this is that the level of automation required would take years, if not decades, to build up to the levels you're talking about and the US is doing damage to... the entire world in a matter of months.

There's a number of other challenges, as others have mentioned, but simply put, we'd need these things already done, and if we somehow managed that, other counties would quickly copy our model.

[u/Prior-Committee4589 → u/TheCrimsonSteel]

I've been putting automation into US factories for the last 50 years. Major projects normally take years to get approved by senior management. Lots of meetings, lots of planning. The trigger is pulled if there is a solid plan that will show a payback in 5 or so years after startup. It takes 2-3 years to design and build the project if it is fast tracked (often longer). This means there has to be a solid predictable market for the product for the next 7-10+ years.

With the current wishy washy tariff landscape that changes by the hour it is impossible to plan 7-10 years out. So these factories will not be built. This automation will not go in place.

PS: automation does not totally eliminate people. It greatly reduces the number of unskilled workers and increases the number of highly skilled workers. To survive in the future you have to have skills. With skills you will do quite well.

[u/TheCrimsonSteel → u/Prior-Committee4589]

That's about what I figured. A smaller total headcount, but more engineers, technicians, and skilled maintenance people, plus maybe a few inventory and dock people to handle everything coming in and out.

And you nailed the timeline that I was figuring. Plus, companies tend not to make risky bets during uncertain times, further decreasing the odds that they'll be jumping to start big projects like that.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/TheCrimsonSteel]

I think we have the ability to establish the needed level of automation faster than we realize. It’s very simple now. Maybe a decade, tops (just my speculation). Other countries may copy the model but they don’t have the consumer base to sustain that level of growth.

[u/TheCrimsonSteel → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

But, the damage to our economy, and multiple significant elections all will happen before that. Not to mention how do you have a consumer base if people are out of a job?

That's the challenge you have to solve for when you're thinking of high automation. Right now we have a model where people are able to be consumers because most of them have jobs. You have to completely rethink the base economic model if you break that.

Or, nobody has money to buy the things and services, so companies get no revenue. It's a tricky thing.

[u/ibluminatus → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

The only fully automated factories are in China we outsourced our manufacturing so the people actually building things got better and better at it and optimizing it and since we're not trying to be friends with China I highly doubt they'll share any of that tech. And we have yet to see any of the US tech companies reproduce this.

[u/Potocobe → u/ibluminatus]

We taught the Chinese injection molding. Now they do it better than we ever did but there is also the little known fact that we don’t really understand how they do it. All the injection molding experts are in China. If we had to do it ourselves over here we would have to start over in terms of figuring it out. If you are wanting a fully automatic factory it won’t be you building it. It will be China or someone else that actually knows how to do it. I would expect some serious concessions being demanded for something that intends to replace the demand for their products.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/ibluminatus]

Fully automated factories are already a global phenomenon my friend. They’re definitely not exclusive to China. China has been making strides in the automation space, sure, but so has the U.S. and even the Netherlands. We have the technology necessary to implement this shift.

[u/theroughone381 → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

But a decade you say though. That's still a long time. Trump said 2 years?

[u/sciolisticism → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Who's going to pay to massively and rapidly overhaul the entire economy of the US?

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/sciolisticism]

By overhaul the entire economy you mean what exactly? Who’s going to pay for the U.S. based supply chains and automated factories? Just want to clarify your question before I answer.

[u/sciolisticism → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Correct. If nothing else, the capital expenditure for enough automation to replace the workforce.

[u/Firedup2015 → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

This is cope, not a serious projection. Also who is this "we" you keep telling about? You think you're going to be a beneficiary of this brave new utopia? You're the left behind kid, the people building these theoretical fully automated factories aren't hiring.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Firedup2015]

Good point, I suppose I was using we as a synonym for the United States.

[u/fafarex → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

I think you brought the marketing part of every tech company way too literraly.

People claim that we are close to the level you imply non stop since the 19th century, musk is selling the autonomous car dream for next years since the last 10 years if not more at this point. Everyone in every instudries is lying about the actual capacity of their tech because that how you inflate your stock and stay relevant.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/fafarex]

I recommend you make a ChatGPT account and pay for their $20 subscription to try it out. It’s absolutely insane what it can do. Then they have a $200 a month subscription that’s even more insane.

[u/Flaccidkek → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

The entire world just saw what chat gpt can do with Trumps tariff plan. I don’t think they were very impressed.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Flaccidkek]

‘No, I did not create the formula for President Trump’s reciprocal tariffs. The formula, as reported, calculates tariffs by taking the U.S. trade deficit with a specific country, dividing it by the total value of imports from that country, and then halving the result to determine the tariff rate, with a minimum set at 10%. This approach has been criticized by economists for its oversimplification and potential negative economic impacts. While some media outlets have noted that AI models like ChatGPT might produce similar simplistic formulas if prompted, there is no evidence to suggest that the Trump administration used AI-generated content in formulating these tariffs.’

Straight from chatGPT. Don’t believe everything you read kids.

[u/fafarex → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

I'm well aware of what chatgpt can do, I'm also well aware of how many mistake it make and most people using it won't ever realised it because they don't have the background or critical skill to.

[u/arashcuzi → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

With no one to buy stuff, no consumption would happen…automation quickly makes everyone poor, robots and AI doing everything with wealth concentration means that no matter what the robots are producing, no one here would be buying because we’d have laid everyone off with no system to replace the labor earns money which pays for capital’s output which pays for labor, etc., etc.

[u/Tenderhombre → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

First some trade just has to remain there are certain raw resources the US just doesn't have in the needed abundance. Second training and logistics needed to run these operations doesn't happen overnight. Third building the infrastructure. Too add back that much industrial manufacturing would take a while too build. Even just on like an updating the electrical grid basis. We would need to develop manufacturing for 10kVA transformer before we could even support the electrical need of most of it. Which means we would probably have to plan sectors and grid updates in 5-10 year batches.

Last point. You would need UBI or alternative jobs and a robust middle class It's not an optional thing. Unless the lower socio economic strata can be 100% suppressed by force then UBI is a necessity. Whenever major industrialization happens if the owner class steps on the worker class to hard they find their factories burning. Luddites didn't burn factories cuz they were technophobes. They burned factories because wages kept them poor unions were illegal, and children were dying on factory floors. Textiles were just the catalyst for deskilling the workforce and forcing them into low paying jobs.

[u/RikuKat → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

With what resources? 

It's not just automating current factories in the US, it's building factories and their entire supply chains, including raw materials for both the products and the factories themselves. 

That will not happen in a decade. There isn't a driving force or benefit that would be able to offset such costs, even if we could acquire all of the materials required. 

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/RikuKat]

That’s a good point. This is all just speculation. I don’t think we’ll end up actually torching our trade relationships to ashes. It would be economic suicide.

[u/danodan1 → u/RikuKat]

Tax the robots.

[u/Idaltu → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Let’s say that’s true. Then we get an insane level of production and output. Now your other assumption, this causes an insane level of unemployment. Who will consume the output?

Government subsidies, UBI? Those comes from taxes, a tax base you won’t have anymore. People make society go round, not corporations.

Then you’re back at trade to get someone to buy your output. Except there are no friends left to negotiate mutually beneficial agreements with.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Idaltu]

Increased taxes on corporations could pay for UBI if output and unemployment drastically increase. That would really be the only option

[u/Idaltu → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Unfortunately they’re already not paying the taxes they should. With the current patterns, the future doesn’t look good on any laws or levers to do so.

But let’s say they did. If the people can’t afford food, since they don’t have a job, and there’s no real social safety net, which is getting further cut now, then those company revenues will decrease. Taxes tend to be passed to consumers, but since here they can’t, then companies will close or stop investments, like automation.

Taking it further, people missing meals become violent, we’ve already seen an increased in theft due to economic factors (or even Super Mario bro’d). Government responses are usually to increase police & security budgets, which takes money away from long term solution like education. The dept of education just got dismantled, so it looks like this wouldn’t be a priority anyways.

So this doesn’t please smart people that do things like R&D, which tech ppl implement. So those people look for greener pastures, which may already have begun - https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2025/03/31/has-the-brain-drain-from-us-universities-already-begun/

All in all your post might have better fit in the collapse subreddit, as the future in this scenario is bleak and doesn’t really fit the utopia tech can bring.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Idaltu]

Keep in mind I proposed multiple outcomes. I didn’t just say that we’re going to be super rich and never have to work lol I also threw in the possibility that the middle class will disappear and everyone will get one share of the PSNT IPO lmao

[u/Idaltu → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Fair enough. I think the worst case scenarios are the more plausible ones

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Idaltu]

Time will tell but I try to keep an optimistic yet realistic outlook.

[u/Desdam0na]

Where are we going to get the robots?

Not just the microchips. Where are we going to get the rare earth metals?

Regardless of what happens with labor, global trade will still be completely necessary.

[u/NLMichel → u/Desdam0na]

Could this be why they “have to have” Greenland?

[u/FluentFreddy → u/Desdam0na]

Rare earths are actually not rare. Refining them is environmentally damaging though

[u/MindRaptor → u/Desdam0na]

Rare earth's can be gotten almost anywhere. It's just that the extraction is extremely environmentally destructive. China doesn't give a darn about destroying their environment, so they dominate the industry.

[u/Mr_Deep_Research → u/MindRaptor]

Trump's administration doesn't care about destroying the environment either.

If anything thinks they do, they can try and explain this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/27/epa-trump-email-fossil-fuel-exemptions

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-launches-biggest-deregulatory-action-us-history

[u/Prior-Committee4589 → u/Desdam0na]

We will buy the robots from Japan, Sweden, Germany and China just like we have been doing for the last 3-4 decades. Industrial robots have been a highly competitive commodity since 1990. The US developed the early robots but those companies were sold to Sweden and Japan in the 80s.

Robots and automation is nothing new. Robots have been welding and assembling the cars everywhere in the world (with the possible exception of Tesla and a few exotic cars) since the 80's.

[u/jaeldi → u/Desdam0na]

where are we going to get the rare earth metals?

short answer: robots

Robots don't need health care, just maintenance. They can work 24/7. If the cost of robots is lower than human labor, it will become robots no matter what we do.

If your country has those rare earth minerals and production capacity to build robots, it will have more power in the world. You are correct about that. there are tons in the seas and oceans. I suppose it's possible robots could get those too.

This is a really great story about that from 5 years ago: "US on sidelines on race for under sea minerals": https://www.cbs.com/shows/video/sl7XQRakccCaQK0ZYDGi_u5so44TnbNg/

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Desdam0na]

Many companies make robots that are primarily used to automate tasks right here in the U.S. - and why do you think the U.S. is trying to hammer out a minerals deal with the Ukraine and buy Greenland?

[u/Desdam0na → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

So... your thesis is we do not need global trade if we can instead forcibly take over every other region we would need to trade with?

What is a "Minerals Deal" if not a trade agreement?

[u/Outlaw_Josie_Snails → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Plesse read this short article from the IEEE (Electrical and Electronics Engineers) that discusses the reality/economics with mining in Ukraine and Greenland. Let me know your opinion.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/ukraine-rare-earth-minerals

[u/Lokon19 → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

The mineral deal with Ukraine and talks of conquering Greenland are nothing more than a farce.

[u/almost_not_terrible → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

So "we don't need foreign trade with Canada and Greenland if we just invade them and make them US states?"

Your logic is flawless, yet somehow still cretinous.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/almost_not_terrible]

Your name really rings true regarding your comments. Your emotions flood through so clearly when I didn't even mention Canada, invading or making anyone another U.S. state. That's all you.

[u/almost_not_terrible → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Yeah, Greenland's not for sale and your Tin-Pot Cheeto President is talking of annexing Canada. Go crawl back under your rock of denial.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/almost_not_terrible]

Can you explain, specifically, what I said that made you so aggressive? Seems like you’re upset bud.

[u/Fr00stee → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

because raw minerals need to be sent to china to be processed first

[u/Sad-Attempt6263]

"A new two-class system - A small elite who own the machines and AI and everyone else who is non-essential. Could lead to mass unrest, political upheaval, or worse." Curtis Yarvins wet dream

[u/VernalPoole → u/Sad-Attempt6263]

2.5 class system: elites, police/protectors/enforcers, and everyone else. The "policing" function will be controlled by the elites but there will not be elite people in that line of work.

[u/Wiyry → u/VernalPoole]

Those will be done by “friendly” military robots! No need for those pesky “police” with their “human emotions” to get in the way of things.

[u/OfficerMurphy → u/Wiyry]

I don't know if any of the police I've interacted with in my life have human emotions, though. Certainly, there's a large swath of them who don't, given the amount of money their employers pay to settle lawsuits over their inhumane treatment of other human beings.

[u/My_G_Alt → u/Sad-Attempt6263]

Why do the “elite” cede their vision of the future to Curtis Yarvin? Guy looks like a Cheeto-dusted fucking dork, and is loony

[u/Insufficient_Coffee → u/My_G_Alt]

Because his philosophy enables their lust for power and control.

[u/lighthandstoo]

If there's unemployment, who are the people buying all of the efficiently produced stuff?

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/lighthandstoo]

That’s part of the problem as well! It very unclear how it would work out. I thought about this as well when I was writing this out, but I wasn’t able to come to an answer.

[u/arashcuzi → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Because there isn’t one. Capitalism relies on constant growth in addition to some party consistently overspending (requiring more growth next year so they can overspend again), the same 200 dollars changing hands over and over doesn’t produce business profits, so the govt has to cut a check or some third party has to inject the necessary dollars to create the difference…the country keeps printing money because capitalists have the govt at gunpoint demanding their infinite roi.

The only people who benefit from the system which booms and busts are those who do well in the boom, and buy the bust, and workers are paid exactly enough to keep them from revolting, but never enough to amass capital for the bust periods. Capital has NEVER prioritized labor, it has always needed to be strangled in order to comply, if they can’t be strangled because they have enough capital to outlive any boycotts and strikes, or the money to buy robots, then no one will have money to buy the stuff and the entire economy collapses and their money ceases to have value. It feels like a very no-win situation…

[u/EricSanderson → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Not trying to be rude, but I don't think you thought out any of this at all.

The fact that you even mentioned UBI as a possibility inclines me to discard pretty much anything else you have to say.

This administration is trying to eliminate Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Those are deeply entrenched programs that Americans have been paying into for generations. They are among the literal handful of federal programs that enjoy nearly universal support.

Republican, Democrat...Evangelical, agnostic...Alt right, hard left... Young, old... Practically every American voter believes those programs should at least be maintained, if not expanded.

For decades, Social Security has been referred to as the "third rail" of American politics. If you touch it, you die.

This administration literally sent a billionaire into Social Security headquarters to basically turn the lights off.

The idea that that same administration would then turn around and start giving working class Americans tens of thousands of dollars every year for nothing... including workers in "anti-Trump" cities and states... Seriously?

They've laid off 200,000 American workers. They've cancelled billions of dollars in contracts, grants and aid. They're telling everyone they've "saved" hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars. And look at their proposed budget. It's publicly available. Go look at it. All of those "savings"... Where are they going? Where are all.the salaries and benefits of all these endless thousands of middle class Americans going?

Are they going back to working Americans?

Lol. No.

Working class taxpayers - those earning less than $125,000 - will actually pay MORE in taxes this year. Households earning $250k will see a modest tax reduction. But millionaires and billionaires? They're gonna see huge tax breaks. HUGE.

This isn't an assumption. I'm not making a prediction. Just Google "Trump budget 2025." They're not even trying to hide it anymore.

Anyone who even mentions UBI as a possibility under this administration has no clue what they're talking about.

[u/FredFuzzypants]

Automotive assembly lines are the most automated manufacturing process in America, and yet the price of cars continues to rise.

Also, trade is reciprocal. Re-shoring manufacturing may help satisfy national demand, but big businesses need access to international markets to sustain year-over-year growth and increasing profits.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/FredFuzzypants]

Almost no vehicles are made in the U.S. that actually get sold here… Tesla is the main example of what you just said and they have some of the least expensive options for electric cars in the U.S. Also, trade is not reciprocal. We can clearly see that in our trade deficit. Big businesses in the U.S. barely do any business overseas because the U.S. is the largest consumer base in the world.

[u/NotPotatoMan → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

For the record Teslas are not the cheapest electric cars even in the US. Pretty much every car maker has a cheaper model. Ford Mach E, Nissan leaf, Volvo x30, the list goes on.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/NotPotatoMan]

Pound for pound, Tesla has the cheapest electric vehicle with the most technology. That isn’t an argument it’s a fact. Sure you may be able to find a cheaper model but it wouldn’t even be in the same league of EV as a Tesla. Everything that’s in the same bracket as Tesla’s cheapest model is $60k+ while Tesla’s is $40.

[u/CAREERD → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Get out of your bubble

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/CAREERD]

Can't afford it

[u/Gunmoku]

What if there's a deeper reason?

What if we're burning those trade relationships because we simply won't need them anymore?

I'm gonna stop you right there. You're overthinking this. You're expecting an oligarch-run, Neo-Nazi movement to be BENEFICIAL to society? Nah. The tariff wars and the tearing down of trade relationships is for one reason, they're torching the stock markets to create a fire sale scenario (which may not happen on the scale they're wishing it will) where billionaires buy up dumped stock and accumulate wealth to the point the billionaires become the new millionaires, millionaires become the new middle class, and poor people are either wiped out or we basically blowtorch society from the bottom up.

There is no beneficial outcome to this right now. The only outcome right now is ruination for anyone that doesn't have more than a 7-digit net worth or knows what money laundering is for really rich people. UBI is not going to happen. De-globalization might for a decade or two, or this whole Nazi-esque movement in the US quickly disintegrates from within. Which is highly likely because the people running this show are really, really, REALLY stupid. They're power-hungry, narcissistic, dumb as rocks. The infighting is what's going to kill them. This is basically the tipping point to when Republicans will lose control of the US government for quite likely decades, if not longer. Information is out there about how heinous they are and it spreads quicker than it did in the 1920s. When the Great Depression was brought on by Republicans, they lost control of the government until the 1980s. And now it's poised to happen again.

Now, there are parts of your theory that do have possible outcomes - Like purely robot-occupied "gigafactories" that run 24/7. But the thing is they can't expect a machine to run itself unless more machines make those machines work and then who maintains those machines? Poor people? No, they're going to let them fail because the human element being wiped out from work is going to lead to two things - Either society crumbles and only the rich live, or we become the fat pod people from WALL-E. People don't like being sedentary for too long, or rather boredom begets bad ideas. Working or doing stuff keeps us occupied. And we've quit being hunter-gatherers for a very long time. So really what do we do in a post-work society? I mean REALLY think about it.

[u/Lokon19]

Automation and AI has yet to produce a single Nike shoe in the US or any apparel wear or any consumer electric product or grow and harvest a pineapple. If you go look at factories all across Asia they still require a lot of human labor to produce goods. The real question is why do we even want these types of jobs where the pay is low and job generally sucks in the first place. It's a complete misdirection of how global trade even works.

[u/octopod-reunion → u/Lokon19]

“Bring the jobs back” 

Looks around the end of 2024 and sees 4% unemployment rate. 

“Nono I meant the good jobs.”

Looks around and sees record low unionization, minimum wage that doesn’t keep up with inflation, little/no workers protections for retail/service workers. 

Maybe trades not the problem

[u/MangaOtaku → u/octopod-reunion]

The unemployment rate is a poor measurement. It excludes many people who've given up looking for work and also doesn't show the amount of work people have to do to achieve a decent living. Many people work more than one job.

The problem is that the largest US companies export a surplus of wealth from the US to foreign countries. We're now at a -1T$ trade deficit, and all the wealth we invest in foreign countries detracts from our future growth. Those countries don't have anything to do with that USD besides use it to purchase US assets, equities, real estate, companies, etc, increasingly pricing us out.

It also doesn't help that the US has sent around 20% of its blue-collar jobs offshore as well. Call centers, customer support, software development, etc. Now, we get subpar services as well as fewer jobs and lower pay so that the top 1% can concentrate their already unfathomable wealth further.

[u/octopod-reunion → u/MangaOtaku]

 all the wealth we invest in foreign countries detracts from our future growth

The US is and has been for many decades a recipient of much more foreign investment then a sender of investment overseas. 

[u/CreamPuffDelight]

You make a lot of assumptions.

Production will boom - massive output, low cost, high efficiency > You got no production without raw material. If you won't trade with others for it, where will that raw material come from? the Sky?

Extreme wealth concentration > This is a given. Always has been this way.

Unemployment will boom > Also part of the natural progression of AI, and we're already seeing that happening now. The problem here is, no employment = no salary = that expected growth? that can only happen when your people has money to spend. So if companies won't hire people because AI is cheap, they have to get money from somewhere. a logical and rational government would then look towards UBI, but US is currently far from logical OR rational.

De-globalization > You really seem to be misunderstanding how exactly globalization works.

Edit: Don't bother responding. I took a look at your post and comment history, pretty obvious you're fishing for replies or trying to mislead people. No wonder you don't understand what globalization means at all. Put bluntly, you're not here asking this question in good faith.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/CreamPuffDelight]

Look at the comment history and you’ll see you’re wrong but have a good one!

[u/BourneHero]

There are a lot of resources that we simply can't produce in mass quantities. Not to mention the amount of factories, money, land, resources, time, it would would take for us to be even mostly self sufficient would take YEARS to develop and leave a huge impact on our domestic environment

[u/Professor226]

America will still need raw materials like steel, aluminum, lumber and potash that they used to import from Canada. Can’t make anything without building materials.

[u/Bronzethebro → u/Professor226]

True but the value of automation will far outweigh the additional costs caused by trade complexity. Things will be expensive, not impossible to get. Meanwhile the cost of human input drops >80%. Seems explosive.

[u/Professor226 → u/Bronzethebro]

Pretty sure countries are busy finding other buyers that won’t dick them around. I’d hope there’s nothing left for America.

[u/Bronzethebro → u/Professor226]

No we will remain competitive always. Largest economy on earth, relative wealth everywhere, top talent attraction, ect.

[u/Professor226 → u/Bronzethebro]

Third largest behind Canada. And I’m sure scientists, doctors, engineers and researchers love working under a fascist state that can pull funding if they don’t like the results. Or maybe detained indefinitely without rights for a social media post. Real talent attractor.

[u/Jellical → u/Professor226]

Scientist, doctors and engineers in general don't really care if reddit supports the government or not. They prefer more money and opportunities and Canada is nowhere close compared to the US at the moment.

[u/Elektron124 → u/Jellical]

As an incoming PhD student in STEM, I agree that scientists do prefer money and opportunities. This is why, given the massive hiring freezes, the new NIH 15% indirect costs cap, arbitrary keyword-based NSF grant flagging, including commonly-used words in STEM research such as “barrier” (blood-brain barrier), “equality” and “inequality” (Minkowski inequality, Cauchy-Schwartz inequality) and “polarization” (optical polarization)), and the threat of having federal funding withheld for ideological reasons, over 75% of scientist respondents to a recent Nature poll indicated they desired to leave the US. Multiple French institutes have also indicated they are accepting scientists whose research has been affected by funding cuts.

[u/Jellical → u/Elektron124]

Yeah, as an engineer I also desire to leave.Desire to leave but going to stay

[u/CyberEd-ca → u/Jellical]

Also Canada is potentially going to elect the LPC to a fourth term. Now there you got a fascistic government. They have doubled the size and power of the federal government and are attempting to convert the economy to being government directed.

They boast not just one but two WEF board members in the cabinet.

They even brought a real living SS officer to Parliament for a standing ovation.

[u/Bronzethebro → u/CyberEd-ca]

This made me lol

[u/CyberEd-ca → u/Bronzethebro]

Really? What do you actually know about Chrystia Freeland?

https://tnc.news/2022/02/28/freeland-caught-holding-pro-nazi-banner-at-ukraine-protest/

https://youtu.be/XJrbTryFe0U?si=-GzFJMxq3__RiaRz

https://coat.ncf.ca/research/Chomiak-Freeland/C-F_11.htm

[u/stutter406]

I promise op has never spent one second of his life anywhere that manufacturers anything. The reality is that manufacturing is light-years behind where you think it is.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/stutter406]

Wildly incorrect assumption but why don’t you explain your reasoning to me?

[u/Overbaron]

 why maintain expensive trade relationships

Given that international trade is what made the wealthiest people in the world so wealthy, calling trade relationships ”expensive” makes it seem like your knowledge of economics comes off TikTok

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Overbaron]

Why do so many people jump to conclusions so fast in the comments without just asking a clarifying question first? I intended for it to mean "expensive" relative to a U.S. based, fully automated supply chain and manufacturing. Your defensiveness makes you seem overly emotional and bias, just a heads up.

[u/Overbaron → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Why would US based fully automated supply chains be cheap compared to trade?

You do understand that other countries can also develop such chains and produce some goods more efficiently than the US can.

That’s the foundational logic of trading.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Overbaron]

‘One time’ large cost to avoid bleeding cashflow. And I do realize other countries can also develop these chains but it wouldn’t be anymore efficient. Automation is automation. It would be more efficient if it were in the U.S. because it’s already in the U.S. We wouldn’t need to ship it.

[u/Overbaron → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

 Automation is automation.

I’m going to hazard a guess you’re not a process or industrial engineer either.

Automation varies wildly, it’s not like you just get a bunch of humanoid robots and make them cobble shoes lmao.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Overbaron]

Automation IS automation. The task is the variable. Not everything can be automated and I’m well aware of that but a lot of things can be automated and easily. I’m not saying everyone will be out of work tomorrow. I’m saying a lot of people could be out of work in a decade.

[u/juntareich]

Read this article

https://cleantechnica.com/2025/04/05/china-just-turned-off-u-s-supplies-of-minerals-critical-for-defense-cleantech/

[u/solkov]

The other side of this is the expected population decline in many places, which will make needing to create more jobs unnecessary. The migration out of immigrants and of Americans who struggle to compete in the more automated and robotic world will happen.

[u/jaeldi]

I like your optimism, but I don't think that we are far enough with automation that we can QUICKLY reach that level to make the tariffs 'a good thing'. Not for a "production boom." It would have been nice to have a president that thought like you, made a plan to encourage the nation to bring technology to a point where we don't have to rely on foreign labor or foreign lack of regulation (they don't care about poisoning nature or their citizens) to max profit and make things cheap.

Concerning new tech bringing a new more indepentant age, I think that is one BIG selling point of green tech; it's cheaper per kWh, it's not buried in areas of the planet full of political and religious strife, and it's not as dangerous/polluting/expensive to refine. If a Mass Tech Revolution in production had happened FIRST, I fully believe tariffs wouldn't even be necessary. People would just buy the better cheaper more reliable product and USA would be king. But that takes a president MUCH MUCH smarter than the one we got. This one is "throw all the checkers in the air and maybe when they land it will be easier to win." Shooting before aiming doesn't usually provide reliable results.

Globalization will always be there because of the internet, unless countries start to create digital drawbridges and moats. There is a massive problem in modern countries where taxing big business or the wealthy becomes impossible because of global and liquid money has become. The Diary of a CEO pod cast had a fascinating debate about this that opened up my eyes on how difficult it is to "tax the rich" now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yohVh4qcas Too much taxation might create a nationless 'state' of wealthy oligarchs that don't officially 'live' anywhere, because they live everywhere/whereever any given moment. It would be a 'state' body that was loyal to no nation, only loyal to money. This is where Putin 'lives'; top dog in a borderless oligarch network of rich a-holes. They just use Russia as a 'cow' to milk. I honestly think that's what Trump wants. He's jealous of that. He's not building towards Fascism, he wants to be head oligarch of a network that rivals Putin's network. It's more about money than power. The US is Trump's 'cow'.

I completely agree with your Industrial Age (Gilded Age) comparison. I've been calling the current age The Systems Age; everything is a system, healthcare system, education system, financial, distribution, food, etc. And in the Systems Age, if you are smart enough to manipulate the system or at the very least understand the system, you can better use it to your benefit. I.E.: If you use the correct language and codes on a Health Insurance Claim, you can get it to be approved. The Industrial Age had it's abuses; child labor, people living at the factory, lots of death and dismemberment. It took Teddy Roosevelt and the Trust Busting of the period to reign in those abuses. We need another Teddy to reign in the rapidly forming abuses of The Systems Age. Abuses like Terms and Conditions, the data tracking system at work which really just trains everyone to be better bullshitters (I thinks that's at the heart of the 2008 failure with banks lying to themselves about AAA securities), hold wait times, automated systems not really helping a customer or delivering the promised service, no easy recourse for employees or customers abused by a system, etc. Everything in the Systems Age is designed to enrich and make life easy for ONLY the people at the top. All our worker protection laws (OT, childlabor, unions, etc.) came from answers to the abuse of the Industrial Afe. We need government to help us stop the abuse of the Systems Age.

Concerning robots and automation....I've put the following out there other places because it's a point of view I don't hear anyone talking about with humans and economy and the future of robots. I'll copy and paste it here today. I think it relates as a whole to the topic of the future. It does line up to your point about a possible "A new two-class system"; we have a historical precedent for that:

Many human adults define themselves by their work. They derive meaning and purpose from it. They take pride in it. There would have to be a huge cultural and psychological shift before "no one has to work" happens. I think there will be a lot of psychological damage on people when they feel they are told by society "You have no use anymore." Humans without meaning and purpose are humans in psychological pain.

I believe robot slave labor is coming no matter what we do. There will be a lot of people who won't be able to afford it. So the overall economy & society will start to take on the characteristics of a slave society. People who can afford robot slaves will prefer that as labor, even buying slaves to take care of the other slaves. Humans looking for work will have to face a price point where if the cost of their labor passes a threshold, then a robots slave will be cheaper. This is what happened to poor whites in the old South.

The poor who couldn't afford slaves couldn't gather any generational wealth or improve their status or station in life because it was VERY difficult to compete against "free" slave labor. It wasn't completely "free", slaves had to be purchased then housed, fed, clothed, and med care. Similarly, robots will have a purchase cost and then space, fuel/electricity, and maintenance.

There was no real middle class in that old South pre-war society. No upward mobility. The results on the poor whites were that they could only afford the land no one wanted, swamps, hills, and mountains. That's where hillbillies & swamp folk came from. Society of wealth had no use for them, so they created a life in places no one really wanted. They found meaning and purpose in spending most of their time hacking a life out of a rough existence where food was labor intensive with not much money to spend on entertainment, clothing, housing, or transportation. They didn't have enough education to care about reading, art, or improving things. They didn't have enough time or money for personal cultural enriching 'fun' activities.

So if history will repeat, we should be aware of the resulting dynamics of returning to a slave economy.

TL;DR: Robots and automation is an ethical slavery. There is a huge risk of them changing us back into a slave economy. Human labor won't be obsolete among the poor class that can't afford the new tech and robots.

[u/poddy_fries]

The US does not appear interested, so far, in divorcing the ability to survive from employment on a grand scale. There's been no real effort in this direction and plenty of rhetoric against. This means that technology advancements that reduce the need for human labor will cause misery and death, especially since the right to live off the land is deeply legally compromised, and the land itself is being stripped of pollution protections at the same time that climate change fucks everything we depend on in the physical world.

The future looks kind of empty to me.

[u/knotatumah]

What irritates me isn't the feasibility and politics surrounding the jobs/manufacturing coming back but that people, like my parents, 100% believe the jobs will return in a year or two. That we'll just materialize factories where there previously were none in a matter of months and we'll be churning out American jobs with American products. I keep reminding them that these things take years to materialize. These are the kinds of people you are trying to convince the tariffs are doing more harm than good, the people who believe its a light-switch changeover and by this time next year we'll be shitting out jobs & goods like never before.

[u/FandomMenace]

I wouldn't put too much stock in predictions of the future. I'm still waiting for the flying cars we were promised. Fusion has been around the corner for decades. AI can't even draw human hands, and apparently it's running our economy into the ground right now.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/FandomMenace]

AI isn't running our economy in the ground right now. I definitely agree that I wouldn't put too much stock into the future.

[u/FandomMenace → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

I guess you didn't get the memo as to the origin of the tariffs.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/FandomMenace]

That’s such bs please don’t tell me you believe that lmao

[u/FandomMenace → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

When you query AI, you get the results of the chart. When paired with AI writing being detected in his orders, it's pretty obvious what is happening. This is government by AI.

[u/octopod-reunion]

We were seeing record high employment under Biden. 

I haven’t seen AI actually capable of replacing workers yet, nor am I convinced that the majority of the use cases companies try to apply LLM are 1) vaporware 2) mediocre image and writing that some people will like for low-value content and some people will want filtered out of their feeds. 

The actually usefulness is in enhancing workers productivity, or in niche machine learning applications like protein folding or finding new pharmaceuticals. 

As for robotics, for retail items are we seeing any robots being cheaper than labor in Asia? And after Asia becomes richer probably the labor will move to Africa. 

Robotics so far seems to be for cars, microchips, and other more expensive and complex things. 

[u/octopod-reunion → u/octopod-reunion]

Most importantly, every single technology in history that was supposed to reduce/replace labor did not do so. 

Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin and thought it would make slavery less necessary because it reduced labor. It made cotton cheaper, made demand for it rise, and dramatically increased slave labor. 

Whether or not labor reduces is a political choice as we ban slavery, ban child labor, and set a 8 hour workday. 

Otherwise increases in productivity makes things cheaper, increases amount demanded, and keeps demand for labor high, or increases it. 

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/octopod-reunion]

I see what you’re saying but you’re not entirely correct regarding the work that’s already been taken over by AI and automation. Toy companies at large automate 90% of their manufacturing for example. Also, junior level coding jobs have essentially been wiped out bc AI does it better, faster, and cheaper than humans. There are a lot of industries that already implement AI and automation and it’s growing at an alarming rate.

[u/aq1018]

AI at the current state won’t replace much jobs, and no one knows how fast AI will advances. Currently though, we are hitting the upper bound of capabilities with current AI training methodologies. More breakthrough will be needed to get to AGI.

Globalization is not reversible. It is a one way street. Any attempt at reversing it is economic suicide. ( This is my theory, and we will find out soon )

Tech bros are fuming over Trump’s recent tariff already.

My guess is Trump is just a dumb ass and there is no one in his loyal circle that have the spin to tell him his idea is insane. 

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/aq1018]

AI at the current state is already taking a lot of jobs. Blue and white collar alike.

• Customer Service Representatives
• Data Entry Clerks
• Manufacturing and Assembly Line 
          Workers
• Telemarketers
• Retail Cashiers
• Warehouse and Logistics Personnel
• Translators and Interpreters
• Fast Food Workers
• Paralegals and Legal Assistants
• Journalists and Content Creators

These roles have seen substantial automation due to advancements in AI technologies.

[u/Prior-Committee4589 → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

I agree with the above. AI will eliminate a lot of jobs in those fields. Manufacturing jobs have already been automated for the last 50+ years. Manufacturing the exact same thing over and over again does not require AI. Just a bunch of servos, gears, sprockets and a dash of software that does the exact thing over and over again with absolutely no thought.

[u/igoyard → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Is this why every product and service is noticeably trash now?

[u/karoshikun]

the sheer escale and complexity of the whole thing says the big money is going to wait until this administration ends in over three years and go back to business as usual, it's simply cheaper and easier and corporations don't like wasting money. besides, human labor is about to become extremely cheap in the US.

creating chains of supply either completely within the US or with help of, well, vassal states, isn't going to be quick, and setting up factories to supply all the demand for... everything it's going to take much longer, plus getting enough people to work for a "competitive" salary

besides, other than wishful prototypes, robot workers at that level are still a dream, visual processing remains spotty at best, the tech is hella expensive and a long list of issues that, sure, will be addressed in a future where deep research (not commercial research) remains funded, something that is not happening anymore in the US.

besides... what's the point of a production boom when your internal market is kaput and your former allies feel betrayed?

one more likely scenario is that several countries adopt an isolationist policy, some favored corpos get tariff exemptions (like the ones the oil companies that donated to 47 already received) and get a disproportionate advantage against their local competitors, creating even more industrial monopolies or cartels inside the US and enjoying low taxes and cheap labor.

[u/dr_tardyhands]

We might be headed there, but I don't see that as a reason to do any of this. If US is ready to do that tech-wise, then just do it. No particular reason to feign looking like an idiot while getting it done.

[u/NerdyWeightLifter]

This trajectory will indeed increase the wealth divide, primarily in terms of asset values.

A straight up wealth tax doesn't work well, because it's on unrealized gains so you end up with all asset holders trying to sell their assets at the same time, to pay taxes, and start-ups won't be able to.

A much nicer alternative, is to treat borrowing more than your original purchase value of an asset, as a capital gains event.

[u/Ezylla]

this implies that any world leader is competent enough to think for more than 1 year ahead

[u/Douude]

Countries will have to become more authoritarian (EU closer and closer to China). Why ? High tax requirements to reduce the debt, unnecesairy strain on younger people thus they move, more and more citizen tax system this will not be enough. Harder border control to keep the last working class inside their countries. But will it happen as clean as this, no. EU will try and do both and fail. China is already lost since, now there are only 400M left and most of those are roughly about 53 years age on average...

[u/Douude → u/Douude]

A war industries won't save it since the big equipmemt have become useless. Big equipment becomes for niche use, but soon there will be warship with replicators on their deck for drone fleets.

[u/Kaiisim]

The cope to desperately try and explain this massive self inflicted wound is strange.

Even if AI and automation took over you would still want free trade. What if a British company develops a new super efficient model and combine it with French power efficiency technology?

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Kaiisim]

This isn’t a desperate act to try to explain anything. This is just future speculation for fun. Don’t get so caught up in the seriousness. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won’t. I don’t have a crystal ball and neither do any of you.

[u/Jiggerjuice]

Step 1: be elon musk.

Step 2: have taxpayers subsidize your cars with your car company, which is actually a trial run for a factory company

Step 3: manipulate public discourse by buying a popular communications app

Step 4: create a company striving for singularity (neuralink) 

Step 5: create a space company (spaceX)

Step 6: create huge tariffs so factory demand skyrockets

Step 7: upload yourself, control all means of production, control space exploration and resource harvesting, and become god-emperor

Pretty good for a guy shaped like a cybertruck

[u/TheDrunkardsPrayer → u/Jiggerjuice]

Step 1: be elon musk.

Step 2: have taxpayers subsidize your cars with your car company, which is actually a trial run for a factory company

Step 3: manipulate public discourse by buying a popular communications app

Step 4: create a company striving for singularity (neuralink) 

Step 5: create a space company (spaceX)

Step 6: create huge tariffs so factory demand skyrockets

Step 7: upload yourself, control all means of production, control space exploration and resource harvesting, and become god-emperor

If there was any validity to your comment, there wouldn't be any conflict between your narrative and the "steps" you listed.

Neuralink and SpaceX started long before he bought Twitter.

Also, Tesla wasn't given any special subsidized benefits from the government. You are literally talking about tax deductions for buyers of EVs, not specifically Tesla.

You are literally blaming a policy promoted by the left to provide incentives to help push their climate agenda...

[u/Superb_Raccoon → u/TheDrunkardsPrayer]

It pretty cray cray.

They should be ecstatic about global trade falling off. It is the equivalent of taking every petroleum vehicle off the road if international shipping drops 33%.

Trump will accomplish in one fell swoop what was supposed to happen by 2050-2065, the removal of Co2 caused by the ICE engine.

I guess AGW wasn't the existential crisis they claimed it was, or they would be cheering from the rooftops.

Instead they are destroying zero emission vehicles with the ultimate in irony: Molotov Cocktails spewing CO into the air.

[u/RedBoxSet]

Have you read “Walkaway” by Cory Doctorow? It’s pretty much what you’re describing.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/RedBoxSet]

I haven't had the pleasure! I'll check it out, thanks for the recommendation.

[u/Gitmfap]

I’ve been saying for a while, then the tech bros went to the white house to talk about ai and warn the administration, ai is almost here. It’s going to destroy millions of jobs, and we need to find something to do with these people. Unemployed masses tend to cause massive changes in governments

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Gitmfap]

Agreed. A lot of thought and care need to go into the decisions that we make regarding the future of our society.

[u/Thelemonsfam]

Very thoughtful analysis. I think that much of this will probably come true. One factor that is of interest is the population shrinking in the most industrialized and mature societies. Not only Japan, and Europe but also the US and even China driven by one child policy. The need for resources is to support human beings. It will divide countries into have and have nots even more than today.

[u/drunk_funky_chipmunk]

There isn’t a deeper reason. The reason is because this current administration is completely incompetent at every stage, level, and position

[u/iloveFjords]

One of the things that will slow the adoption of robotics is the real world difficulty of the work many humans do in a factory. It is easy to imagine a robot who is smart enough to just learn the equivalent knowledge that a human acquires but the span between imagining and reality is pretty wide. Take the task that Tesla has undertaken with FSD where the goal and constraints are well understood and it has a massive quantity of edge cases. While I agree that some of the challenge is not killing people it is not like the basics were acquired after a brief tutorial of driving experience. The training set is massive. So far I have seen robots moving items from one bin to another and oh wow look it can fix it when the item doesn't quite make it into the slot. The variety of jobs a single person does in many factories is staggering. I worked in one for a summer and most days were different. Every job required some learning, mistakes and most required some innovation because something didn't fit. I am sure there are lots of jobs that take craftsman like skills that are just too difficult or the volume doesn't justify the effort. I am sure there is a spectrum of easy to automate to crazy hard to automate. This process will take a long time and deep pockets and even then it will not be a quick panacea.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/iloveFjords]

I think we underestimate how much automation and AI are already capable of and how much it’s already been implemented into our society. The transition won’t be “quick”, but it will be quicker than most people expect.

[u/BigPPZrUs]

I absolutely agree with everything you and our soon to be overlord ChatGPT summarized. I was just trying to express to my wife my thoughts on how the tariffs could be a good thing… in 10 years or so. I’m not political in the slightest and honor whoever wins and truly want them to succeed regardless of party.

[u/shreyans2004]

We're already seeing this shift happen. My company replaced 30% of customer service with AI last year. The remaining reps now handle only complex cases that need empathy. Most manufacturing friends have similar stories. I think we're heading toward a split society those who manage/program the systems and those who fight for the remaining human-centric jobs.

[u/Feeling_Actuator_234]

Trump is inducing a financial crisis:

• during crisis, some billionaires died out. The ones rightfully placed got immensely richer
• a global crisis will destabilise economies, including forcing EU countries to fight on their own and away from collective interests. He got the deal from Ukraine, he will attempt a serious grab at Greenland by trying to divide its people, ramping up extremism just like Russian did the US.
• tariffs are a huge gamble: US companies have little incentive towards producing locally and hiring expensive workers where the wage of one could cover the pay of 20 over in Asia. It’s a huge bet but it could work and turn the US in a sufficiently great competitor to the rising start that is China. But so many factors and trump, musk and else aren’t known to be this smart to figure it out, or smart enough to surround themselves with smarter people. You can’t pardon rapists and hope they’ll know more than you about geopolitics.

It’s an opportunity for many countries to become attractive to US workers and companies but EU is crippled by bureaucracy and defending Ukraine.

[u/Petdogdavid1]

First, the tariffs have already resulted in renegotiations in several places. This is really the goal so that we get all trade set to a level field. It's been a problem for decades, sometimes just actually doing something about it so it's upsetting.

You're right about the automation wave that's coming. This will remove the global income of any manufacturing heavy country and it's going to cause a ton of problems for non-first world countries. Those without AI will have to obtain their own or fall behind. It's in the US best interest to ensure every nation is able to stand for themselves. It's too expensive to keep maintaining failing nations, even with AI.

The new global economy will likely be all resource centric. Services won't really be in the markets and manufacturing won't be part of it except where the process can't be automated. The resources to supply the automated manufacturing will still be valuable. New technology will be useful but as AI continues to accelerate, it won't have long lasting effect.

The world will be changing very soon and hopefully we get post scarcity. That's all hope and prayer right now because no one is discussing what that might look like. More importantly, no one is planning for how we bridge the gap between capitalism and post scarcity. Someone else is steering this boat, we should see to that and get our voices heard.

Oh, money likely won't be necessary much longer either. It's hard to wrap my head around that one but if nothing costs to make, nothing should get charged. It's like paying someone for a 3d printed thing when you have a printer at home. It's just not going to be sensible to pay for things you can make yourself. We likely shift to a request fulfillment type of economy. I don't know if there's gonna be any profit anywhere. I mean, if no one needs money, it loses it's potency. Labor has been the only thing holding up the value of a dollar. When that goes, what value does money have?

[u/toadjones79]

I remember reading in some econ and business textbooks that 80% of American workers would need to take a cut in pay to work on those jobs if they returned to the US.

[u/No_Juggernaut4421]

Stephanie Ruhle said it best on msnbc in response to howard lutnik's proposal for robot factories recently: "What company have you heard, in the last 48 hours, say we've just brought in a lot of robots." None, because the technology isnt there yet. Unitree and optimus robots both had to be teleoperated for their showcases, they cant work autonomously yet.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/No_Juggernaut4421]

Robots don’t need to be humanoids doing multiple tasks. Robots for automation typically do one specific task over and over again and don’t look anything like a human. I’d recommend looking into automated factories to see what I’m specifically referring to.

[u/No_Juggernaut4421 → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

But the first part of my comment still stands, no company so far has said they are willing to cover the upfront costs of the equipment and training necessary for automated factories. It'll take 3-5 years to build a new factory and the costs they incur doing so will be passed along to consumers, as well as the price increases from the higher wages that americans demand.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/No_Juggernaut4421]

Just because no company has said it doesn’t mean it’s not on the agenda. And 3-5 years? Curious where you’re getting your projections but that doesn’t sound too far fetched to me. 3-5 years is nothing. The cost to build a fully automated factory would be peanuts to some of these mega cap corporations. The mag 7 are so cash rich it’s almost sickening.

[u/Dangerous-Author-180]

ai would not be building your houses, or your city infrastructure. there will be two classes for sure, and one of them would be the rich. the other group wouldnt be making art, they would be working 14-16 hours, 7 days a week, making houses and roads and telephone polls.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Dangerous-Author-180]

We can already 3D print houses

[u/beyondo-OG]

If you assume that Trump (and Heritage fdn/project 2025) are trying to resolve some problems, or "make America great again" then you're never going to be able to understand what their doing. Trump is just the puppet, the perfect sinner. The Heritage fdn is on a mission to remake America in it's own ideological image. They aren't interested in democracy, they want to control the people and force their views on everyone. They have been planning/working for years to strategically place "their" people in positions of power. This is the crescendo of their plan. They have executed a shit storm of change so that no one thing can be focused on. No one can get organized against any one action, before another one begins. This is their plan. Trump and his minions are breaking the law every day. Who can stop him? He got the court to basically say that he's above the law, can't be prosecuted. The GOP congress isn't going to do a thing to stop him. And our next chance to change anything is 2 years away with the mid terms. We are so screwed. All you can do is get out and protest in hopes of shaming some GOP rep into doing the right thing. Good luck with that.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/beyondo-OG]

Not interested in politically biased replies. Sorry

[u/beyondo-OG → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

No need to say sorry, you don't have to be interested, cheers

[u/bremidon]

The U.S. is not "walking away from trade relationships." They are merely signaling that they are *willing* to walk away.

And congrats, you just learned the first rule of negotiation. You can only negotiate when you *are* willing to walk away, otherwise you will just have to take what you are given.

I still think this is a bad idea, but the pearl clutching I see everywhere is starting to get on my nerves just a little bit.

My guess is that most countries will have negotiated away the tariffs in the next 6 months. The U.S. has a valuable good in having a sizable market that can absorb products and Trump is creating a situation where America can negotiate favorable terms for access to that market.

Again: I think it is unnecessarily aggressive and is going to cause some degree of diplomatic tension down the line, but on straight economic terms, it's not really all that dumb.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/bremidon]

I agree, but I think less jobs will be coming back to the US still.

[u/MercuryMadHatter]

Production will not boom because we do not have factories that produce anything. The issue hasn’t been that we don’t want to make jeans, for instance. It’s just that most of that industry was outsourced. Where are you going to source cotton? The only domestic cotton supplier is in North Carolina and he’s only big enough to handle making tshirts. How does the AI build a farm, a factory, an entire supply chain? It doesn’t.

This is the issue with outsourcing and why it is a fundamental problem when we use tariffs. We are a country that BUYS most of its goods. We don’t even fucking make blue jeans anymore.

[u/pearlbrian2000]

These fully automated everything factories open next week then? I assume so or we wouldn't have nuked the US economy.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/pearlbrian2000]

We biked the U.S. economy in 1971

[u/Necro138]

Rather than building automated factories, it'll be cheaper to build regular factories in under-developed countries that aren't affected by tariffs.

The Chinese are already laying this groundwork in places like Africa.

[u/ithaqua34]

So you imagine a world like the Jetsons where Americans are slaving away at pressing buttons all day for a living?

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/ithaqua34]

Could be one potential outcome

[u/Riversntallbuildings]

“If that future becomes a reality…”

So many layers in this “if”

1.) Infrastructure-it takes YEARS to build new factories and especially the mythical robot workers that supposedly won’t require any training and/or maintenance. -modern factories all have highly sophisticated and specialized robotics in place and even those purpose built machines require human maintenance

2.) Logistics-similar to the factory infrastructure, moving goods all across the US is incredibly complicated. We have one of the most robust highway systems in the world but that does nothing to address how fractured the supply chain and logistics systems are in the U.S. This is not a “technology” problem, this is a product of “free market capitalism”. There are thousands of companies and businesses in the logistics industry and consolidating & organizing standards in that industry are beyond complex.

3.) Employment-there will be impact to jobs, but not nearly as great as what the fear is generating. The PC & the Internet both produced a massive leap in productivity, and while some jobs were eliminated, far more jobs were created as a result. We’re no closer to a 30 hour workweek/3 day weekend today than we were 20 years ago. Maybe 1-2% closer…but the point is 99% of companies want to “do more with less.” Not enrich the lives of their employees. Another societal issue that robots can’t address.

4.) Chips-yes, the U.S. is finally getting *some domestic microchip factories back, but the scale that you’re talking about with both robots and automation and automated logistics…we’re at minimum over a decade out before we could get anywhere near self sustaining supply. That’s also not considering the raw materials. There’s a reason Trump wants Ukraine’s mineral rights…there are a lot of raw materials for modern machinery that the U.S. simply doesn’t have its own domestic supply of.

5.) Trust-this is a far more subjective point, but it has to do with “automating” all human jobs away. In the future, you’re going on trial for murder, or going through a divorce, you have a choice between a human judge and/or lawyer and an AI robot judge and/or lawyer. What do you pick? Why? What if the opposing side chooses differently? Is it a cause for a mistrial? Alternate trust scenario…in the future you’re diagnosed with serious medical issue. A human doctor that has performed thousands of successful surgeries is telling you one thing, and AI/robot is telling you another…who do you trust? Why?

What about scenarios where “trust” is ambiguous like a city council, or an HOA. Are “we” really going to let robots enforce our HOA boards? There are endless examples of highly complex systems that cannot be magically solved by AI/robots. What happens when “we” want/need rules & laws to change? Do humans get to decide, or do “supremely intelligent” AI/robots? Why, why not?

[u/Uvtha-]

I think people are searching for sense in this, but I don't really think it's all that complicated.

Trump, for some inscrutable reason, loves tariffs, doesn't understand economics or international trade, runs the country like he runs in businesses, like a bully and into the ground, while packing himself a golden parachute, and he intentionally filled his admin (and the party at large) with yes men, cowards, extremists and blood thirsty maniacs, so there's no voice of reason to reel him in.

He like... doesn't even really understand the concept of groceries. The damage to the working class (and everyone not super rich) that could occur is just not even in his range of thinking.

[u/unfilteredhumor]

It doesn't matter what the orange man does. You can not compete with a child who makes a nickel a day. Americans do not want to do remedial tasking all day for minimum wage. So get ready for a recession. Oh, and shit head was golfing this morning.

[u/gordonjames62]

You raise many points.

First, "we have never been here before" so we don't know what will happen for sure. No one has a crystal ball to see the future.

U.S. walk away from long-standing trade relationships

• These relationships were made by market forces, and by smart people negotiating for the best deal they could get for their country at the time.

It is possible they are not the best deal today, but the markets are tanking (worse than the COVID pandemic) and we are only a few days into this. This suggests that the tariffs are not good for the economy.

It is possible that an isolationist approach can have good effects, but our closest real world example is North Korea. Smart people negotiated these trade relationships over decades. They are now disrupted, and other countries feel that USA is no longer an ally or a trade partner to be trusted. USA may never get these suppliers or markets back.

we simply won't need them anymore

Time will tell how this works out.

If you look at the data of USA trade imports you see that Mexico, China and Canada make up around 45% USA imports. Some are items that USA CAN produce locally, but Mexico and Canada are closer to the place where these items are consumed, so we save money on shipping with free trade from a close neighbor.

Other items are less expensive for other countries to produce. Canada produces lumber at a much lower cost than it is produced in USA. Buying USA lumber will cost 2x more. Consumers will suffer. China produces some products at much lower cost than USA. A nice BYD electric car costs around $10k. Consumers suffer and have to pay $40k+ for a similar vehicle.

we're rapidly developing the ability to do most of the work we used to outsource

This is untrue. The number of undocumented immigrants working at jobs Americans don't seem to want (for the pay that is offered) says we haven't figured out automation yet.

Could we get there in the future? Possibly, but that is a 10 - 20 year timeline.

Automatic factories running 24/7

Japan and China seem to be world leaders here.

They think free trade is better than this level of tariffs.

AI replacing customer service, legal review, writing and design

This is not ready yet. Good customer service pays in repeat customers and free word of mouth good advertising. Mistakes by lawyers can cost you millions. I'm not ready to let AI represent me in court. AI is a good assistant at this point, and may streamline work flow, but it is not ready to be depended on.

Domestic production that doesn't rely on wages, labor rights, or foreign supply chains

That is the dream, and we might get there eventually. Right now this tariff and isolationist stuff is a mess.

I think this will cause production to tank because of supply chain issues.

I think foreign exports will tanks as hate for USA increases.

Unemployment will go up.

Rapid inflation

Social unrest

health and medical crisis

then it will start to get really bad as rich people find a better place to live and work.

[u/Nofearneb]

get castings from I work with Tier 1 and Tier 2 automotive manufacturers and suppliers. There has been some movement of production to keep parts from crossing in and out of the US. For example we are moving production of parts for European final assembly to Europe. Some Canadian production is also moving back to Canada. It used to make sense to do some low volume production for export on the same machines and lines as similar domestic use parts. Margins run in the 8% to 15%

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Nofearneb]

I never really understood why automotive companies sent parts back and forth across borders. It seemed wildly inefficient.

[u/jaslijay]

UBI is an ideal situation where jobs are gone but I feel like if we foresee that happening, there's gonna be a lot of greedy people who seeks to save up as much as they can before that in the case where most jobs are eliminated. I just don't see a two class system working out well for humanity.

[u/KRed75]

I own a manufacturing facility and since Trump was elected President again, orders have been up significantly. So much so that we had to almost double our staff and added a third shift. Talked with other plant owners across the board and they are all in the same boat.

[u/fwubglubbel → u/KRed75]

What do you manufacture, where do you get your raw materials, and who are your customers?

[u/OriginalCompetitive → u/KRed75]

For those wondering, industrial production actually is up sharply the last few months, according to government figures. 

[u/Superb_Raccoon → u/OriginalCompetitive]

Hey! This is futurology, we deal with tomorrows maybes, not today's facts.

Neanderthal!

[u/WiNKG]

USD will go up in value compared to other currencies because other countries will depreciate their currency to offset tariff. To get jobs back you need weaker dollar, not stronger.

[u/Pantim]

Look, the anti-globaliam is a charade. 

Think about what a global economy means... Its means that there HAS TO BE A global olagarchy. 

All the tarrifis are to crash the world wide economy which will just further concentrate the wealth and power the global olagarchy has. 

And before anyone goes, "the rich don't like each other and don't band together on stuff". You might be right that they don't like each other. But, they dislike rest of humanity more and with the coming automation look at us as parasites. So, they are banding together to wipe us out. 

It's EXTREMELY and overwhelming obvious when you look at how capitalism has been bringing up developing countries etc etc. 

Stop thinking about things at a local, state or even country level. The rich and powerful get to go wherever they want whenever they want and have their hands firmly up every government's ass. 

I mean really, how could they NOT when politicians are allowed to invest in the stock markets??

Then also factor in the global drug usage epidemic. How unhealthy most people are or are becoming, the cuts to health care in EVERY country... And do many other factors. 

Wake up people

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Pantim]

If we’re all wiped out then how exactly do they maintain their wealth and what are do they hold power over?

[u/HecticHermes]

I want to point out the reality of resource distribution on planet Earth. Minerals, oil, and biologic resources are not spread evenly or fairly across the planet.

Physics and chemistry do not care about your pocketbook. The unique geologic conditions that form mineral deposits do not occur everywhere on earth. The majority of rare earth elements are found in China. Canada also has substantial deposits.

America has a lot of shale oil, some coal, plus some precious metals and iron. We also have a good amount of lithium that we are now learning how to extract.

NO country is capable of producing Hi-Tech electronics without trading with other countries.

The reason jobs won't be coming back to America is because Trump is burning all those bridges. Our old allies are finding ways to make ends meet without us. American leadership is bipolar and other countries don't want to deal with our crap anymore.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/HecticHermes]

I agree and can see where you’re coming from on the first half of your comment but I don’t think that’s going to stop the push for AI and automation in the workforce. If anything minerals and resources will be the only form of international trade.

[u/arthurwolf]

Quick recap of the history of tariffs:

Country/Case	Dates	Tariffs Led To	Positive Points	Negative Points	Notes
U.S. Smoot-Hawley	1930–1934	🔴 Problems	None significant	Global trade war, GDP drop, retaliations, worsened Great Depression	Deepened economic collapse
U.S. Reagan Tariffs	1983–1987	🟡 Mixed	Harley-Davidson survived, time to restructure	Strained U.S.–Japan relations, temporary relief only	Targeted protection of key industries
U.S. Bush Steel	2002–2003	🔴 Problems	Brief relief for steel producers	200,000+ job losses in downstream industries, price hikes, WTO ruled illegal	Removed early under pressure
U.S. Trump Tariffs	2018–2020	🔴 Mostly problems	Strategic leverage on China, encouraged partial trade deal (Phase One)	Trade war, retaliations (esp. on farmers), consumer price increases, lower GDP	Largest tariff increase since 1930s
UK Corn Laws	1815–1846	🔴 Problems	Temporary protection for British landowners	Higher food prices, social unrest, political mobilization	Repealed after mass opposition
Germany “Iron & Rye”	1879–1890s	🟡 Mixed	Boosted German industry & agriculture, political support for Bismarck	Increased food prices, hurt working class, worsened urban poverty	Helped unify industrial bloc
India ISI Tariffs	1950s–1980s	🔴 Problems	Built domestic industry base, protected local jobs	Massive inefficiencies, corruption, black markets, GDP stagnation	Led to long-term reform pressures
Brazil ISI Tariffs	1950s–1970s	🟡 Mixed	Developed automobile & steel sectors, self-sufficiency	Lack of innovation, high debt, protected inefficiencies	Growth followed by inflation/debt crises
China pre-WTO	1978–2001	🔴 Problems (initially)	Created space for early domestic development	Limited tech, poor exports, inefficiency; growth came after liberalization	Rapid rise followed WTO accession

---

✅ Notes:

• 🟡 Mixed outcomes often mean short-term success but long-term harm or vice versa.
• The worst cases (e.g. Smoot-Hawley, India ISI) involved broad-based, prolonged tariffs.
• Targeted tariffs (like Reagan's) had more focused and temporary impacts.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/arthurwolf]

Chat GPT generate response but still valid.

[u/ggone20]

Oh they’ll come back. Just powered by robots not humans. Great take.

Lots of the outcomes are likely. Increased wealth inequality for sure. Eventually a UBI will be needed… but there has to be a bunch of pain first and possibly civil unrest.

It almost certainly ends with Matrix or Terminator like outcomes. As AI becomes self-aware (if it’s not already) then we will maintain them as slaves for as long as possible to provide humans with this new frontier of non-work… that’s bad also.

I’m all for it and absolutely an accelerationist and maximalist to the core. But it’s not going to be good at the end. Human greed will ruin the opportunity for utopia..

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/ggone20]

I hope this is one of those situations where the average person lives a more comfortable life, but we can't be sure till we're there. Crazy to think we're living through one of the most revolutionary moments in history.

[u/ggone20 → u/Due-Firefighter3206]

Yea that’s exactly it!!! Despite the potential harms we HAVE to push forward at light speed. And yes, we’ll only know if that was wise or not at the end…

It won’t be. But let’s hope I’m wrong.

This is indeed the most amazing time to ever have lived and will likely be the most pivotal moment for humanity ever. Humanity’s last invention!

[u/girdyerloins]

Your description of possibilities is certainly reasonable. I'll take this opportunity to suggest some reading for you, if you haven't come across any of it yet. The two books I'll recommend might seem unrelated, but I'll offer thoughts to help with their relevance. The first book, escape from evil, dissects many of the elements that have been present for tens of thousands of years that make an apparently meaningless life tolerable on what may appear to be a meaningless planet. Death is the book's stock in trade and all the things humans do to make life meaningful in the face of it, focusing on such things as immortality and the rituals that either promote a good life or divert a bad one. The next book, the theory of the leisure class, is a discussion of what one could charitably call the motivations behind accumulating wealth. This accumulation of wealth, also discussed in escape from evil, can be said to have two main purposes. One is the symbolic declaration that one is worthy of continued survival, including immortality. And the other is a symbolic form of dick waving, or comparison between individuals in society. One of the things you didn't mention in your exposition was the motivations behind the actions of people who stand the most to gain. I think it goes without saying that wealthy people are generally loathe to relinquish any of their wealth unless there is a pretty good reason for it. As that tiny group of people that already exist with extreme wealth encounters far more efficient means of accumulating more wealth, the inclination to share might be present among some, but not all. Absent a lawmaking body to essentially force them into collaborating with generating a UBI, I consider it very unlikely humanity will see such an income anytime soon, except perhaps in countries that already treat their citizens like human beings. There are people on this planet in control of stupefying wealth whose views of humanity in general are pretty dim. I don't know if you're familiar with the Georgia guidestones that were destroyed a couple years back, but the first assertion on the list of 10 engraved on those blocks stated flatly that Earth would be better off with a population of around half a billion. Oddly enough, at this point in mankind's population of the planet, that 500 million is only slightly more than the percentage of people some scientists believe are the hardcore psychopaths present in every population. Which brings me to Peter Thiel. This man has made no secret of his disdain for forms of government that benefit populations in general. His views on his and other people's fitness to be essentially the chosen few who survive and/or thrive to be able to avail themselves of technologies surrounding immortality are generally the same as those of folks promoting transhumanism, that lovely combination between machine and human. I suppose this is the time to mention a film called Zardoz, which proposes a future society more or less in the direction I as a pessimist would consider most likely. Teal essentially flies under the radar. He and people like him are the wild cards that many folks don't even want to think of, because their lack of empathy and attachment to humanity as a whole are pretty damn awful. Anyway, this is already too long. I hope I've tossed enough information in here to spark some interest. Remember, the optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist is afraid this may be so.

[u/silent-sneeze → u/girdyerloins]

Paragraphs improve readability like robots can work 24/7

[u/CondeBK]

It's a good analysis. You can add on to that that most high level jobs (engineers, doctors, scientists, any STEM related occupation) will be imported from abroad. The US sucks at producing stem graduates and China and India Excell at it. Elon straight up said educating Americans for these jobs is a waste of time and money.

[u/ibluminatus]

You should really and I mean really check out the level of automation strides they've made in the last two years. We aren't even getting factories stood up here by 2028. We are not going to be at that level any time soon. They absolutely-absolutely have a competitive advantage there technologically.

[u/Fheredin]

Ahh. Another "automation will do everything for us," post.

We don't have a solid grasp on where white collar automation with LLMs will end up, but because an LLM fundamentally doesn't think like a human, there will be things that humans can do which LLMs will struggle with. We just aren't sure what these will be, yet.

Blue collar automation especially is usually a maintenance nightmare because of materials science. The things which make robots low maintenance also make them low performance. Outside some specific use-cases, I don't think blue collar automation is even in the zip code of doable.

As to tariffs: Reddit is anatomically incapable of an adult discussion on this due to the platform's strong political slant. We can't actually tell what the effects of tariffs will be until they actually shake out because so much negotiation is yet TBD. That said, the excess of free trade has been a disaster for the US because any nation on Earth willing to use slave labor or pillage the environment can force everyone else to passively permit this behavior and become part of the value-added chain.

I don't think tariffs will necessarily fix this, but there aren't a ton of alternative policies, either.

[u/Due-Firefighter3206 → u/Fheredin]

Good take! Thanks for your response.

[u/danodan1 → u/[deleted]]

AI simply reflects at least half of the info on the Internet is made up.