r/Gifted • u/PlntHoe77 • 2d ago
Discussion Does anyone else have to consistently remind themselves that critical thinking isn’t common?
I’m not even trying to be condescending But a lot of the times I catch myself getting irritated over ignorant comments or threads, or how someone can post something on social media that’s bigoted or straight up misinformation and it’ll get thousands of likes.
I used to argue with people on the internet (I don’t anymore) But has anyone else have this experience? I have to consistently remind myself that a lot of people are unfortunately simple minded and don’t think over things multiple times or in depth. I’m having a hard time understanding.
I just saw a twitter thread where people were saying that evil people don’t get karma because it’s not real/you never see them suffer.. And someone used slavery as an example because black people had to experience intergenerational (lasting) trauma while white people “never got anything” I don’t wanna bring politics here, but god.. Ignorance/lack of empathy is not bliss at all. If you’re obsessed with hurting and putting down an entire group of people for 400 years that must be stressful. It’s just kind of frustrating the type of things people think in the mainstream.
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u/mgcypher 2d ago
Yes, my husband has to remind me when I forget too. I grew up predominantly around people with no capacity or desire for metacognition, much less challenging their own thoughts and opinions. Most of them lap up whatever a charismatic person spits out like it was the gospel truth. Doesn't even matter if it's a blatant lie... they'll adjust reality so it becomes true. All because it makes them feel good for a second.
I have always been envious of those people who just believe what they're told unquestioningly. I've never had that ability.
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u/Hatrct 2d ago edited 2d ago
80-98% of people have a personality style that is not conducive to critical thinking. This means that they remain stuck with emotional reasoning based on the fight/flight response and use cognitive biases instead of rational/critical thinking.
You have to realize that our modern living arrangement is quite new, evolution has not caught up. We are still primed to operate based on emotion reasoning based on the amydala-driven fight/flight response. This fight/flight response served us well for the vast majority of humanity because it gets kicked off quickly, and it needs to because when facing a wild animal you need a quick response to survive. But modern problems require rational long term thinking, and this fight/flight response actually gets in the way of that/makes things worse. That is why the vast majority of people are fighting with each other and are polarized and have no constructive discussion. Yes, our PFC has developed to be capable of rational thinking, but 80-98% of people have a personality style that is not conducive to actually using their PFC in most cases. On top of that society actively discourages critical/rational thinking and actively encourages emotional reasoning. So it is a vicious cycle.
I used to have some hope that you can change people, but I no longer thing this is the case. I will use therapy as an analogy to explain why. The reason therapy is able to work is because there is a long 1 on 1 therapeutic relationship between the person and the therapist. This allows the person to eventually at least consider what the therapist is saying. If the therapist gave the best explanation in the first session, 80-98% would not believe it/would attack it, because the emotional relationship has not been formed yet. But due to time and other practical constraints, obviously, you can't have a 1 on 1 therapeutic-like trust based relationship with more than a very very very small amount of people in your life. So if you try to spread a rational message to the masses, 80-98% of people will attack you and not even consider anything you are saying. This is especially true on reddit for example, because there is even no facial expressions or tone, just text, and the irrational masses are even more likely to attack you because it is even less of an emotional connection. Since you can't have a large enough audience and are limited to changing a literal handful of people in your entire life, the world cannot change, unfortunately. If it changes, it will have to change organically, and that will take 100s of years.
The other related concept is what I call ICD (intolerance of cognitive dissonance). Cognitive dissonance is when we hold 2 contradictory thoughts. This causes mental pain. What 80-98% of people do is either randomly pick one to be true, or pick the one that most aligns with their pre-existing beliefs, regardless of the objective validity of the thought. Then, then will double down and use emotion against anyone who dares claim that thought has flaws/is not the absolute truth. Again, 80-98% of people have a personality style that is not conducive to critical/rational thinking, because they cannot tolerance cognitive dissonance: they have no intellectual curiosity, so their thirst for intellectual curiosity does not offset the pain from cognitive dissonance. The rare 2-20% have a personality type that fosters intellectual curiosity to the point of being able to handle cognitive dissonance.
As for arguing with people on the internet. Yes, I have given up: I no longer believe it is possible to change the world. But I have cycles due to loneliness. It goes like this: I get too lonely/my natural human evolutionary need for social interaction is not being fulfilled, so I am forced to go on reddit, even though I know people won't respond to reason and will just rage downvote you every time you try to fix their problems and fix the world (while they continue to worship charlatans who tell them blatant feel good lies and take advantage of them), then when it gets too much I withdraw again. But then the loneliness increases and I am forced to engage again, etc... Unfortunately it is very difficult/almost impossible to find another human who wants to have meaningful discussions.
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u/Johoski 2d ago
All the time. All the damn time.
Editing to add that suggesting that the enslavement of Black people was also hard for white people is a pretty questionable premise.
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u/Miaismyname2424 1d ago
My favorite part of the show Mad Men is when one of the younger ad-man proposed marketing a product to black people, but was immediately shot down. Biogtry isn't rational.
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u/abjectapplicationII 2d ago
In what way did the perpetrators of the slave trade suffer any 'lasting' negative consequences? It's quite interesting because you suggest that the earlier statement is disingenuous so much so as to lack any form of critical thinking yet you failed to grasp the initial commenters point - the consequences they faced were not proportional to that of their actions, the same pattern played out in the civil rights movement where violent mobs faced minimal legal action regardless of the gravity of their actions. ,
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u/KTeacherWhat 2d ago
Right? This post had me in the first half. And then ended with that.
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u/sack-o-matic Adult 1d ago
"Being a Nazi must have been stressful"
Slave owners could have stopped at any time if they wanted to.
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u/Unusual_Height9765 1d ago
He didn't say "lasting consequence". All the word suffer means is to experience a negative event. That event can be an emotion, even a fleeting one.
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u/PlntHoe77 2d ago edited 2d ago
The original tweet i’m referring to mentions karma. Legal consequences, yes, is obviously one way of facing a punishment. I’m not defending white supremacy. I’m saying that just because you can’t see someone suffering doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Anyone who spends their time notoriously trying to undermine a group of people out of hatred over different features is obviously not happy or mentally healthy. The point is that they’re simple minded because they can’t see beyond physical realities. They think that just because someone is wealthy, laughing, and has a lot of friends or political power that it equates to having “no karma”
Not to mention most white people obsessively participate in the culture of racial minorities. Obsession is a disease. I could go deeper but that’s the gist of it.
And epigenetics and intergenerational trauma don’t magically discriminate. Who’s to say white people didn’t have anything passed down intergenerationally? I’ve rarely found any studies on that. I’ve heard many stories of racist people sitting at their death beds and confessing the horrible things they’ve done to unassuming nurses out of desperation and guilt.
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u/Own_Faithlessness769 2d ago
‘Maybe they feel bad’ is a comically inadequate response.
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u/PlntHoe77 2d ago edited 2d ago
And remind me again, where was that said?
I’m black myself, and I don’t support right beliefs. Assuming that people who oppress others are happy and thriving is just ridiculous, and that shouldn’t need an explanation. There are reasons why people do things. Understanding and studying why they do them is not rationalization… It’s important to have a thorough understanding of what constitutes white supremacy. This is the simple-mindedness that I’m referring to.
And there isn’t enough research on this, since epigenetics is a relatively new area of study. So are you just implying that because we can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist?
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u/Own_Faithlessness769 2d ago
You just told a story about guilty deathbed confessions but you didn’t mean to imply they were unhappy?
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u/PlntHoe77 2d ago
I love how you’re avoiding every other part of the response that could’ve prevented your comments. Then asking disingenuous bait questions. Yea I’m gonna block you. Clearly some of you are online cosplayers.
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u/Own_Faithlessness769 2d ago
I’m not ignoring anything, you’re editing your responses after I replied.
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u/PlntHoe77 2d ago
So then why didn’t you just respond with this comment? Excuses. You know you’re wrong asf. Lol.
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u/KTeacherWhat 1d ago
I thought you didn't argue with people on the internet
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u/PlntHoe77 1d ago
Oh look, more irrelevant rebuttals to avoid having to get a real argument. Also, you’re correct! Bye ✌️
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u/abjectapplicationII 1d ago
No karma? Intergenerational 'stuff'? Black people weren't placed in their position naturally, that was the result of ostracization and discrimination (that we cannot argue). Are there any external factors which have forced white people into certain undesirable positions especially with respect to race?
Again, you simply capitalize on the absolute statement 'no karma', which whilst obviously not generalizable touches on an important aspect of human society - wealth often acts as a cushion to any forms of punishment, it may not always soften the blow but most of the time it offers shortcuts. In this instance the phrase 'no karma' can be changed to that of 'reduced karma'.
Hating groups of people due to a difference in characteristics is somewhat different to the case you mention, most racial minorities don't generalize their hate to white people as a whole but moreso towards those who actively participated in racial ostracization, not so much because of any inherent feature but rather because of actions.
In this case, presuming some white people did not feel the consequences of their action would be erroneous however, presuming these consequences were generalized (to a large degree) to all the perpetrators would also be erroneous.
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u/The_Dick_Slinger 2d ago
All the time. It’s really frustrating that I find myself having to explain things that’s didn’t take much effort to discover on my own.
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u/bigbuutie 2d ago
This might be a very specific example ai have in mind but, TBH I used to think like that, and be judgemental. Then I fell into a burnout that completely messed me for a long while and started to understand that not everyone has that capacity, for whatever reason.
I still dislike flat earthers and people who say vaccines cause Austim and they annoy me.
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u/AggressivePrice727 1d ago
I forget it - and need to remind myself (daily?) about this.
An harsh - but true - and somewhat “good” thing to keep in the back of your head.
Say that your IQ is in the ballpark of ~130, that means you are 30IQ points above the average.
The wonderful, cheerful, people who have high-functioning down syndrome average around 70IQ point.
So, the difference between an average IQ person and a person with DS is the same as between a “gifted” person and a average person.
Let that sink in a little.
You would most likely adjust your vocabulary, and the information your trying to convey when speaking to a person with DS. The same should apply to an average person.
I Personally never do this, who am I to believe I'm better than anybody else? Who am I to expect that I am better or understand things others don't. (In Sweden we call it the law of Jante)
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u/DumpsterDiverRedDave 2d ago
Yeah and this is a good reminder.
You are obsessed with race and politics and you don't even go deeper than a puddle. You just swallow the official lines and repeat some dribble and think you are enlightened and a "critical thinker".
Let me know when you think something that wasn't told you by a floating head on the TV.
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u/PlntHoe77 2d ago
And what floating head that’s broadcasted on live TV teaches critical race theory and political science? This is honestly why so many people hate this subreddit, like y’all really trying to one up me then hide behind vague language, so no one even knows what you’re talking about and when they finally ask you’re probably gonna pull a fallacy and change your position.
Who is obsessed with politics and race? Is it not the people who created the arbitrary concept?
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u/Unusual_Height9765 1d ago
The question OP raised here is whether white people who owned slaves suffered in any way related to the fact that they owned slaves. The obvious answer is that it is likely at least some suffered internally for their actions. That is not to say their suffering wasn't justified, or that they didn't deserve it, or that they suffered more than the people they enslaved.
This kind of thinking is equivalent to thinking that all rich people are happy just because they have money and power. That is factually proven to not be true. Just because some is in a position of privilege does not mean they are eternally emotionally fulfilled. That's the assumption these comments are making. Is it really a leap of logic to consider the possibility (however remote) that a slave owner might feel guilt for his actions? That's all OP is saying.
Slavery is clearly a very emotional topic but a blanket statement such as "no slaver ever experienced anything (such an emotion, a thought) unpleasant as a result of their actions" is extremely unlikely to be true. Don't get mad and lash out just because slavery is a taboo topic. These things are worth discussing because they provide us with insight into why people do horrible things and thus how to prevent them. That knowledge is incredibly useful. Slavers weren't some monstrous non human species. They were people, and they did evil things. But the assumption that every single one of them was incapable of feeling a negative emotion is just unrealistic.
The fact that you guys responded in this way proves his point. Unwilling to think critically about an emotional topic.
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u/Same-Drag-9160 1d ago
Maybe you should reread the post again, the person said white people, not white slave owners. As in, black people TODAY are still suffering major consequences as a result of slavery, white people are not.
Slavery literally affects the way black children are raised, due to the generational trauma from their parents and grandparents, it affects so much
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u/sack-o-matic Adult 1d ago edited 1d ago
Murderers might feel bad about it too, that doesn’t mean they need to be coddled.
OP took someone's comment literally when it wasn't meant to be and refuses to acknowledge it because they have to be correct.
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u/Unusual_Height9765 1d ago edited 1d ago
When did I say they needed to be coddled? When did OP say that?
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u/sack-o-matic Adult 1d ago
"Feeling guilt" without taking corrective action is just selfishness.
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u/Unusual_Height9765 1d ago
Correct. Whats your point?
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u/sack-o-matic Adult 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's not a real repercussion or consequence to the choices they made.
OP took someone too literally and can't see that.
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u/Unusual_Height9765 1d ago edited 1d ago
Depends on your definition and usage of “real”. Does real mean a social or legal consequence? If you’re using it that way, that is true. No one is saying that is not true. They did not suffer a legal or social consequence. But an emotion IS a consequence. All a consequence is according to the definition of the word is something that happens as a result of something else. A consequence does not have to be in the legal or outside world for it to factually exist. Emotions are physically real. They are a physical phenomenon made up of chemicals and electrical signals in the body. The problem with your argument is that you’re assuming that someone is advocating in favor of the slavers just because they point out the factual occurrence of emotions.
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u/Unusual_Height9765 1d ago
Sometimes you have to speak in literals to have an effective discussion. Making assumptions and reading into things that aren’t there is a recipe for miscommunication and logical fallacies.
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u/PlntHoe77 1d ago
“not a real repercussion or consequence” like do you hear yourself
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u/sack-o-matic Adult 1d ago
Of course I do. I'm not defending abusers because they feel bad but do nothing about it.
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u/SommniumSpaceDay 2d ago
This is blatant rage bait.
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u/abjectapplicationII 2d ago edited 2d ago
In what way?
Edit: I just realized what OP implied in the third paragraph.
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u/SommniumSpaceDay 2d ago
The example used is so obviously unrelated to critical thinking. OP is not that stupid.
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u/PlntHoe77 2d ago
In what way is it “obviously unrelated” Einstein?
Lacking a cognitive skill affects your entire cognition. You can’t pick and choose which thoughts are affected by your lack of critical thinking and which ones aren’t. It affects your thought process and decision-making. People who regularly exercise their cognitive skills will have no trouble utilizing it. Highly intelligent people have an intuitive desire to think about things deeply. That’s partially why a lot of us struggle with over-thinking/overanalyzing because you can’t turn off how your brain works.. Most people do not have that problem hence the (wrong) belief “ignorance is bliss.”
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u/abjectapplicationII 2d ago
Yes, interpreting a comment pointing out the injustices black people faced and the long lasting effects such treatment had as one intended to hurt or deride a group of people seems unreasonable.
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u/zedis_lapedis_ 2d ago
The opposite is fear-based decision making which is impulsive, reactive, and inhibits creativity.
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u/GraceOfTheNorth 2d ago
I have come to terms with the fact that I don't get most people and they don't get me either.
I've come to accept that I will always work as an advisor to people who work as a bridge between me and 'the people', as I try to make this a better world.
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u/Then_Yellow_8091 1d ago
Yes.
I work with an entire team in which almost no one on the team seems to be able to critically think AT ALL. I am also being held back from other jobs by my manager so that I can do all of the thinking while he takes credit and gets promoted.
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u/Petdogdavid1 1d ago
One thing to keep in mind is that memes have been weaponized. The quick info dump of a well placed meme can infuriate an entire segment of the country or it could cause riots, protests, boycotts or they can cancel any person they want. It has become so effective these days that people don't even notice.
It's very difficult to spot where this is in use because the Internet communicates in meme. The base MO is that if you don't like something you see, slap a label on it then create a meme that supports the label. Others will share and the label blocks out all rational thought.
Once you make a habit of spotting where labels are used, it starts to become clear. Most people don't understand this and cannot break themselves from the hypnosis. Their anger and ignorance is a result of programming. If you don't know that your programmed, your not likely to get away from it.
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u/Losito444 1d ago
im new here, i dont know exactly how to write in english, so sorry for that.
now, going to the point of your commnet, yes, and often i think to my self "damn, its not that hard to think twice your thoughts"
but, at the same time, i just remind how hard was/its for me to do the things or to change my own mind, i mean, nowadays its very easy to me, overthink something till i make that ideas to have a "global sense
but everyday im talking and living with nerotipics (im sure thats not the correct form of writing it) and its very hilarius look how they think, and how they aproaches their ideas, and theres its no argument that you can bring to them to change their mind.
in fact, i feel like im in a great show, everyone its playing the role of their life, while im watching all the scrips, and trying to rewrites everyones dialogues to make them a real characters, unfortunaly it never works.
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u/Aggravating-Try-5155 1d ago
Yep. Feels like mass consciousness is somewhere around the ages of 8-12.
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u/CapnFang 1d ago
It makes sense from an evolutionary point of view. We used to live in tribes of hunter/gatherers. When they gathered in the morning before going out for a hunt, the leader would make the decision where they were going to hunt, and everyone else would just follow along. Could you imagine if everybody was a critical thinker? Every morning would start with an argument, because everyone would try to be the leader. There would be no "followers". They'd never actually leave for the hunt because the argument would never be settled, and everyone would starve to death.
So evolution favored tribes where approximately 1 person out of 20 had good critical thinking skills, and the rest were sheep. This served us well when we lived in small tribes of hunter-gatherers, but it's a disaster in the modern world.
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u/chumbawumba666 1d ago
If you’re obsessed with hurting and putting down an entire group of people for 400 years that must be stressful.
Would love for you to extrapolate on this.
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u/spicytacotime 1d ago
My boyfriend’s 19 year old brother lives with us and I feel this every single day. I have to remind myself it’s just not worth the stress. The stuff that comes out of his mouth on the daily is abysmal tho 🙄
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u/kristinesgay 19h ago
YESSIR‼️😔 Like I don't wanna be mean, but it's unfortunately the truth. And I feel like some people don't actually consider your argument if you disagree; they'll say something to go against it (or more often than not, insult you) but won't actually THINK about your idea.
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u/Nice_Mine2708 18h ago
Yeah, slavery was generations of sado-masochistic mentally ill white people tormenting a group of people over generations. That’s why white southerners are so messed up. They are decedent from mentally ill ancestors who sublimated their pain and funneled into the confederate legacy: rape, sexual assault of of women and children, ritual murder of black people (and involving their children in ritual murder… I’m talking about lynching). And then erasing/denying that history and pretending it didn’t happen instead of acknowledging that it was fucked up.
Yeah. Most people can’t think Moore than one step in any direction.
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u/Objective-Canary-4 17h ago
I get mad that people don’t see how our brains are being programmed. & I often question what thoughts are my true thoughts vs the ones that has been placed there. What goals are my actual goals vs what the world tells me I should be accomplishing lol
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2d ago
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u/PlntHoe77 2d ago
You literally just did what you said LMAOO. And your condescending, over-the-top, vague language makes it more obvious.
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u/BitcoinMD 1d ago
No but I do remind myself that just because someone disagrees with me doesn’t mean they lack critical thinking.
Also, it’s true that karma isn’t real. If it were, we wouldn’t need the criminal justice system.
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u/rainywanderingclouds 1d ago
Your framing is off. Critical thinking is incredibly common. The actual issue is quality of critical thinking. People don't have effective critical thinking skills.
People lack reference points and knowledge. Knowledge inequality is also a problem, but it's by design to keep people ignorant so they can be exploited.
Many people become rich by keeping others uninformed.
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