r/Jamaica • u/Special_Potato_3512 • Oct 22 '24
Culture Accountability
As a Jamaican woman, I’ve noticed a disturbing trend where the blame for many societal issues is placed on women. For example, when Jamaican men commit crimes, it’s often said that women are the ones hiding the criminals. When men turn to same-sex relationships, some claim it's because women are supporting this shift, pushing it forward. Even in cases where men commit violent crimes, the narrative is that women are the ones "pulling the strings," yet investigations still show that it's men who are mostly arrested for these crimes.
When a woman is killed for cheating, the blame is placed on her, but you rarely hear of women killing their partners for infidelity. Our society often praises men for having "woman inna bundle" and being "gyalis," yet when a woman cheats, she is labeled with derogatory terms.
Femicide rates in Jamaica are alarmingly high, placing us among the top 10 countries where women are targeted. Despite this, I keep hearing the argument that crime in Jamaica isn’t specifically aimed at women and it affects everyone. This perspective downplays the reality that domestic violence significantly contributes to our murder rates too.
Another narrative being pushed hard is the issue of "jacket". While this may have been more common in past generations due to limited resources and education, it doesn’t hold the same weight today. We see a decline in birth rates and the idea of women having multiple baby fathers is not as widespread as it's portrayed. Yet, I hear men saying they've “wised up” and are choosing not to have children, this perspective seems disconnected from the actual statistics🙄
I find myself questioning whether I’m being biased, or if women are unfairly blamed for everything. Are women the backbone of the country, or should men start taking more responsibility for the issues we face? When will accountability shift to where it belongs?
Don't get me wrong, I am not a feminist or anything and I understand we as women definitely have our flaws, very bad flaws. I just like seeing accountability.
I want to see our men stand up for women, be the backbone for our women, lead our women...not evade every accountability as if you dodging bullets.
Am I hoping for too much?
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u/CamiAtHomeYoutube Oct 22 '24
I don't think this is limited to Jamaican culture alone. In many countries, blame is placed on women. Especially black women.
I personally blame patriarchy, toxic masculinity, and the monotheistic religions that I'm aware of. And especially as Jamaica is very Christian, it makes sense that it's patriarchal.
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u/Flimsy_Watercress_25 Oct 27 '24
I stand for patriarchy and Christianity. Toxic masculinity was created by feminist to topple the patriarch.
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u/Ilovekittyk Oct 22 '24
In regions where femicide is high you will find these behaviors. It’s the initial justifications for inhumanity & inhumane treatment that lead to targeted harassment & harm.
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u/CantmakethisstuffupK Oct 22 '24 edited Oct 22 '24
You’re hoping for too much lol/ no lol
Unfortunately as James Brown once famously said “This is a man’s world”
You’ve eloquently described it so well though but yea, there will never be significant support from men unless that support favors them in some way.
Also not a feminist but very much a realist.
Does this mean women should stop speaking about injustice, absolutely not - but I’m just not hopeful, maybe jaded?
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u/Ok-Throat4948 Oct 22 '24
I love your take on this but if see the music that's trending and what my generation is doing (who'll one day be parents), our society seems doomed, most men, let's not even call them men more beasts with intelligence, they don't and will never respect females and here are few stuff that are heavily practiced *toxic love is becoming more common *alot ppl are only in relationship for what they can get out of it *Been a cold hearted person lacking of emotions expect anger makes you more manly, respected and attractive *Forgiveness, humbleness, kindness, wisdom and many more good aspects are rarely seen *alot of females lower themselves to nothing more than a sex toy and call it love *Alot of Pain and anger can be seen in both genders but both failed to vent it due to not having a person to lean on AND THIS GOES ON, am saying this only happening in Jamaica but expressing what I see as an 19 yr old boy with goals and values
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u/Special_Potato_3512 Oct 22 '24
Yes sadly I do see it, the music we make and social media on whole is very influential for the youths, it has become toxic.
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u/Donman876 Oct 22 '24
The music is simply a reflection of the time's we're living in. People no longer have self respect or any morals and values and will devalue themselves for simple likes and forwards
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u/Ok-Throat4948 Oct 22 '24
Bro mi just find it hard to understand how ppl lack basic self esteem, common sense and pride
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u/Donman876 Oct 22 '24
Trust me I get you but the average person nowadays especially in our Jamaican society wasn't raised with much morals, and having none sells. Most ppl are followers and not leaders.
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u/AndreTimoll Oct 22 '24 edited Oct 22 '24
If there were women saying if the man isnt aggressive or abuses her then he doesn't love her ,we wouldn't have some many abusive men so the solution is two fold women with kids shouldnt allowed any man to abuse her which will teach her son thats not the way to treat a woman and teach her daughter that's not love or how she should be treated.
And the same time punish the men that do abuse women to full extent of the law.
Also on the music part these artistes are only talking about things women have asked them to do, so if those women were allowing men to disrespect them then there wouldn't be any disrespectful lyrics out there.
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u/a_fortunate_accident Oct 22 '24
Numbers may not lie, but they sure can be misinterpreted and abused. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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u/stewartm0205 Kingston Oct 22 '24
While Jamaica has a high rate of femicide, I think it is just a part of our high homicide rate. A lot more men are murdered than women. I have no clue why the murder rate is so high. I don’t think it’s poverty because when Jamaica was poorer the murder rate was much lower. Maybe it’s the guns.
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u/Goddess_kush Oct 22 '24
As women we were taught that Eve was the one that created sin and put this blight on our gender. Majority of time we are the ones that shoulder the blame for a lot of the things that happen in society if a woman gets raped because she's wearing a tight outfit or going into a place where she shouldn't have,. Nobody mentions the man who has no self-control or is unable to control his urges. We as women don't have to be feminist we just have to be mindful that we're always in danger . From birth a female is in danger from man. Some sick men can see a newborn or five year old and not make any distinction between age and a growing woman. If they get a sexual urge those sick men will act on it. So we as women have to realize that in any situation we are the ones that are always going to be in danger and we have to band together and educate each other and and realize that the world is against us and we have to act accordingly. Be in control of our sexuality educate our young women and make them realize that men can harm them in so many different ways and not look at each other as competition and do better. And one last thing God forbid if there was ever a apocalypse or anything look at all the movies women are always the first to be victimized to be held hostage to be assaulted so again this is something that we have to remember that we are always in danger
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u/Donman876 Oct 22 '24
This is a very interesting take, it's funny how much perspectives differ. As a Jamaican man I do agree with some of what you've said in regards to violence against women which I'm highly against but to be very brutally honest with you most of the blame in our society is placed on men and I too blame the men. A lack of masculinity has resulted in what I believe is "grown boys" parading as men but are still of a childish mindset however women themselves are not free from blame as well, alot of these circumstances in which you referred where women are treated unfairly if you really check it out this is only so because you women tolerate and enable men to have these behaviors towards you. Take accountability you say, I agree, but which gender exactly? As a young male in this society not one day goes by where I don't hear women blaming men for every little thing. I do believe you're being biased but you have some valid points as well, I would love to see the women stand by the real men but it doesn't work like that at all. You bunch us all into one big category and everything as I hear all the time " a man fault". Women's suffering most times are self inflicted due to their poor decision making but they'll never take accountability for that.
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u/LisaTeacher Oct 22 '24
I think the part that you are overlooking is...it is women doing it to women. We need to stop it. It is not the men blaming us most of the time. Women need to act more like men and not act the way we do. Until we stop it things will never change. The crime in Jamaica is caused by poor leadership and greed.
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u/jamaicanprofit Oct 22 '24 edited Oct 22 '24
The victim consciousness is crazy.
If you want to see examples of a Male dominated society buy a plane ticket and go visit China, India, Thailand, Brazil, etc. In some African countries, women cannot even inherit property from their family.
Jamaica is one big chaotic Matriarchy. Every Jamaican woman have at least one badman number inna dem phone right now, and nuh fraid fi use it when dem get inna argument.. that's one of the reasons why the crime has spiraled out of control.
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u/persona-non-grater Oct 22 '24
Ohhhh weeee! You preaching with this one but dem not ready to hear it.
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u/jamaicanprofit Oct 22 '24 edited Oct 22 '24
Mi know... they are downvoting me in the dark while providing no rational thought or counterargument. The truth hurts. There are places like Saudi where a woman cannot even drive a vehicle without a man in the car, and somehow Jamaican men are worse to them.
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u/shico12 Oct 22 '24
Let me be the one to tell you the reason why you'll continue to hope until you're old and gray:
Most men will see this, kiss dem teeth and scroll. Your points are based on how you feel and not objective reality. Your entire spiel about 'jackets' for example is just nonsense. That's not to say that young women aren't less keen to have kids, but to say that young men are ALSO just as wary of having kids is just silly and shows the lopsided view you have.
Most men will not engage when people try shove societal blame like this. We just move on and live in the real world. Only reason I'm even responding is that I believe in the benefit of the doubt. If you'd like me to go through your post to present a balanced or a counter view, lmk.
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u/kyle5001 Oct 22 '24
You are very biased and are misinterpreting data. Women do contribute a lot to crime in Jamaica, albeit less than males, and for a very long time, the society ignored their contributions, including female area leaders and women shielding criminals.
Also, Jamaica has one of the highest rates of female homicides in the world. It also has one of the highest rates of child murders and male homicides all of which are a direct product of widespread gang violence with around 80% of all murders( including both male and female) being attributed to gang conflict. Domestic violence accounts for around 10- 15% of murders on average annually.
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u/Acceptable-Swing4590 Oct 22 '24 edited Oct 23 '24
I hear men say this all the time and I often have to laugh, most male and male crimes are contributed by gang violence or something or the other, rarely do you see men targeted simply because they are male. That is the point women are making they aren't talking about female homicide. Most crimes against women are committed simply because they are female. (Femicide) There derives the saying "crimes against women" if these crimes occurred to women in the same way it occurred for men it woulda bad and nuh suh bad. But we see the crimes that the violence that are happening, is happening simply because they are women.
It's the same way how slavery was happening long before Christopher decided to pillage, whites were once slaves to their own, and yet it's hardly ever talked about since it is inevitable and some may argue natural, it however was never about your skin or something that could not be changed or redeemed, this being said do we say "crimes against whites?" No because those are the same white people who set their own rules against themselves and if they wanted to they could have tried and change it. Women have no possible way to stop crimes against them unless all of them go around and start shooting and killing people. Women are targeted simply because they are female.
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u/kyle5001 Oct 22 '24
Your last point is a prime example of false equivalency that does not discount the hard facts that the majority of female murders in Jamaica are not done by ex- lovers, irate husbands, or jealous peers. It is done by gangs, killing other members of gangs and their relatives, and this includes males, females, and children.
Want a proper example?
During the last few months, there has been a dramatic uptake in the number of females that have been shot and injured, but the main cause of this is not irate lovers or jealous peers. It has been mass shootings. The uptake in mass shootings in Jamaica is directly responsible for the increase in female gun victims.
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u/Acceptable-Swing4590 Oct 22 '24
My last point was just a simplification of a similar situation, that being said the only thing you've referenced is domestic violence, violence against women doesn't occur just because of domestic violence or gang violence and just being murdered isn't the only crime women face at mass, if anything a woman is less likely to be murdered as they are for worst things to happen to them. I'm sure you'll say these things happen to men as well. But again as I've explained already.
Women are the only ones who face these crimes simply because they are women.
The majority of crimes against women are not happening due to mass shootings, if that was the case could you not say the majority of the crimes against men was also just coincidental and also occurred due to mass shootings? what's the difference between men and women that causes only mass shootings to be directly responsible for the increase of female gun victims?
That's so ridiculous, if anything this further proved my point. Most men who get murdered are murdered and it's unfortunate for me to say this is because THEY are involved in gang violence. That's not a crime against men, that's just thug and thug war. If it was a woman and a man it would be the same outcome it's not the same for women though, a woman cannot walk on the road at certain times because they are most likely going to be harassed, that happens because they are women not because they have done anything, it's not coincidental either it's intentional
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u/kyle5001 Oct 23 '24
Most of what you say here is just a load of garbage, and yes, a lot of women who are victims of gang violence are targeted not because they simply are women its because a lot of women in Jamaica are involved in crime and benefit from the proceeds of crime. Your last point that implies that women are the only ones who can't walk at certain times is just plain exclusionary bullshit. The majority of robbery victims in Jamaica are men, and criminals are not solely targeting women just because they are women. Nobody in Jamaica feels safe to walk on roads at night, men , women, or children. The only crime that you may say specifically targets women is rape or sexual assault, excluding that most of what you say is simply a load of crap.
Furthermore, if you are an American or live overseas, just shut the hell up cause most of you don't even have a basic understanding of how the underworld operates in Jamaica.
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u/Acceptable-Swing4590 Oct 23 '24
What are you talking about? I've said pretty much nothing you said I did. Two truths can be true at the same time I said women are afraid to walk on the road at night when did I say that this wasn't the same for men? Either you've completely misunderstood what I've said or something else. So I'll ask you one question instead. Imagine it's late at night and a man and woman are on two separate lanes. On both these lanes there are thieves which person will not be robbed? I don't know what you think I said was garbage, I don't care either, the fact is.
Men in Jamaica are not being targeted by their sex, I don't know why you're trying to deny the existence of gender based violence either way I don't need a Reddit comment to confirm its existence or not. The majority of the crimes against men are caused by men because of criminal activity, and that can be helped if men cared enough.
Women are vulnerable because no matter what they do they'll continue to be raped, trafficked, stalked, beaten by lovers meanwhile ALSO suffering from the crimes of loved ones or even strangers.
I'm not even going to entertain the rest of your comments, i would tell you about your mother but I'm trying to separate the trend of punishing women for the ignorance of their sons
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u/kyle5001 Oct 23 '24
You simply do not get how crime operates in Jamaica and think it is the same thing as America or Britain. As a result, you keep reiterating a foreign point of view and showcasing your ignorance.
Know one thing, if people are incapable of identifying the true root cause of something, then a proper solution can never be applied. So when you people continue to pedal your misunderstanding and ignorance, you are only doing more harm to women.
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u/Acceptable-Swing4590 Oct 23 '24
I'm not from Britain nor America. I'm born and raised here in Jamaica and never left, I've also been robbed, stabbed, raped and once kidnapped in Jamaica. You want to know something? I've never committed a crime in my life, I also have no family member who has EVER been associated with crime. All of those experiences that happened to me were done to me by men and family members, male family members. My best friend was coming from school one day, acid was thrown into her face by a boy who lived down the road from her. Do you know why? They never dated, they never spoke before. He just did it. The whole neighborhood knew about it because he bragged to some other boys and you know why he said he did it? "Him like har she a gi weh di pussy". 😂 I never saw it on the news. Despite the police being told and everyone knowing, what could be done about it? There was never any proof.
How could I or her defend ourselves in both these situations? How can I or my best friends stop ourselves from these things happening to us? Nothing, we can do nothing. How do you stop someone from doing things to you. That you never encouraged?
When I was kidnapped and raped it happened to me because I was female, it wasn't because I was attractive, or my skin. It was because I've learned the hardest way, the perpetrators had just liked to put me down, because I was too " highty, tightly fi one gyal".
I remember when I was stabbed, I had gotten into an argument with my spouse, he thought I was the only one in the house, simple argument too. I decided that I wanted to exit the relationship. Yk what happened? I turn my back. Next thing I know there's two stab wounds in my side, when I cried out my sister came and he beat my sister luckily our neighbor heard and he came to our rescue. How did you think he reacted? Nothing, fastest I've ever seen someone drop their weapon. To this day I swear he was just going to kill us because it was easy to. We couldn't manage him but the guy he could. And that alone make him run outta the house leave us.
You don't think that man was comforted by the fact that we were vulnerable? Weaker than him?
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u/kyle5001 Oct 23 '24
Too much information, girl, and anecdotal evidence is not evidence. It's clear that this has gone past the realm of constructive criticism. Have a good day.
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u/Acceptable-Swing4590 Oct 23 '24
Experience, primary and secondary sources are the best form of research. That's the thing about it so many people squirm away when you show them proof. You have a good day as well in ignorance.
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u/Acceptable-Swing4590 Oct 23 '24
So don't tell me I don't know how crime operates most crimes against men would stop if they were less IGNORANT. Nobody naah force dem, pride and money is why so much a dem take up the gun. How are you going to blame that on women? Yes women have their faults when it comes to this, without a doubt but it seems to me the ones who are most likely to die are the innocent ones. The rest of them are protected and "respected in the community" everybody else a fair game.
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u/Acceptable-Swing4590 Oct 22 '24
The point that women are making is that women are targeted through GENDER BASED VIOLENCE. That's what women are talking about. Most crimes against men could be lowered if MEN decided to wise up and stop killing others. What can women do against the crimes against them, and I'm talking about the most common ones. Death by mass shooting for women is so rare and far between. That trying to pin it as the reason why they are being killed makes no sense. As if people haven't been attacking women physically and sexually WAYYYYY before guns were even invented
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u/AndreTimoll Oct 22 '24 edited Oct 22 '24
First off Its very ironic that you are talking about men taking accountability which we do more than women while not taking accountability.
To your first point is kbown that some mothers and girlfriend of criminals turn a blind eye to their crimes,help them commit crimes by setting up other men,wash the bloody clothes,help hide them when they are on the run and even alert them when the police come looking for them.So instead dodging accountabilty you should start speak out against those women.
To your point about the femicide rate ,yes it's high and it needs to stop ,but Men are still the main target of murders not only Jamaica but the world ,so aim should be to stop murders full stop there doesn't need to be gender specfic campaigns.
Lastly to your point about paternity fraud ,even with a declining birth rate reports have being published that states that rate of paternity fraud being discovered during the filing for US or UK or Canadian green card is very high,so how is it that paternity is a thing of the past?
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u/tikkun-olam-o-rama Oct 22 '24
Everyone should be a feminist! Don’t say “I’m not a feminist.”
Feminist just means you believe women deserve to be treated equally. How can that be a bad label?