r/Michigan • u/goodnamesgone • 1d ago
Politics 🇺🇸🏳️🌈 California working on trade with other countries to get around tariffs. Can Michigan jump on this train?
https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414114
u/ItsPronouncedSatan 1d ago
So for people saying this is illegal:
This has already been happening for a while.
Loopholes! Utilize the loopholes!!
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u/questron64 22h ago
It's only legal one way: you can ask countries not to tariff goods exported from your state. It won't work for imports, which is what will hurt most people.
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u/Possible-Tangelo9344 21h ago
Since the U.S. Constitution vests authority to regulate trade with the federal government, the new UK MoUs are strong declarations of political interest in moving the trade agenda forward rather than anything legally binding.
The article even says it's not legally binding though.
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u/littlelupie 1d ago
We don't have a completely unified government anymore unlike California. But if it works for California, Michigan would likely look at their options (hopefully)
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u/matt_minderbinder 1d ago
If California ever seceded from the union the rest of America would be screwed. That state is an economic powerhouse, a top 10 economy in the world.
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u/control_09 1d ago
If they secede they won't be the only ones.
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u/MaybeNotABear 1d ago
Oregon and Washington would go with it, at the very least
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u/Staav 23h ago
Throw in New York, Michigan, Illinois, and a few other states neighboring them, and the rest of the county would have a lot of economic issues to deal with. The US, without the west coast and the Great Lakes states, at least, would not be able to support itself.
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u/VovaGoFuckYourself 8h ago
I for one would LOVE to see the red states try to fund themselves. Or see texas trying to keep them all funded. Would be some fun comic relief.
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u/happytrel Age: > 10 Years 1d ago
In the top 5 I believe. If we can find our receipt for the Louisiana Purchase and return that to France, I think it would balance our books if California leaves. Basically all of those states are a deficit.
I keep waiting for Texas to secede. Theyre technically allowed to, but for all their blustering, they need that federal teet to come in and bail out their "private" energy system.
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u/MIGsalund Age: > 10 Years 1d ago
I think that the Civil War proved that secession is not allowed, under any circumstances.
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u/Boxedin-nolife 23h ago
An authoritarian dictator isn't allowed either but here we are. If we're taking our cues from dear leader, the Constitution is dead. If he keeps pushing, it's gonna be a free for all very, very soon. The new rules, according to the regime, is that there's no rules. He may try to imply that there's still rules for everybody else, but screw that, he can't enforce what he won't abide by. We're gonna push back, hard. He's trying to FA, but he's gonna FO that we're not gonna take it
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u/TrumpIsAFascistFuck 23h ago
You think we still are bound by law? The federal government is becoming increasingly blatant in disregard for the constitution, already ignoring federal judiciary rulings. If they rip up the constitution, we don't have to secede, there will be no legally binding notion of USA for California to be beholden to.
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u/happytrel Age: > 10 Years 23h ago
Texas has it written into their constitution, they are the only state who does. That's part of the reason their electrical grid isn't connected to neighboring states.
Texas was a country for about 9 years
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u/Heat_Induces_Royalty Southfield 1d ago
Not that I dont support trying, but if any state secedes, it immediately becomes an enemy of the united states. The military would take it back by force.
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u/jcrespo21 Ann Arbor 1d ago
Don't worry. If the US were to declare war on the Republic of California, we'll find out when the editor of a major publication gets added to the group chat.
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u/Tsujigiri 1d ago
Considering the recent violations of the Constitution, I'm curious to see if any states go the "You didn't uphold your end of the contract, so our obligations in the 10th and 14th amendments no longer apply." route. I know it seems far fetched right now, but a lot of what is happening currently seemed far fetched a year ago.
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u/NotAnNSAGuyPromise Holt 1d ago
Lol, what military? You need resources and logistics to fight a war. The government has neither without full participation of states that would under no circumstances support a war against California. It would be over before it begins.
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u/austeremunch 1d ago
It would be over before it begins.
Drone strikes and MOABs. It's over in a few hours.
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u/poptart2nd Flint 1d ago
who is going to pull the trigger against American targets?
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u/HowManyEggs2Many 1d ago
I think you are underestimating the number of rural conservatives in Cali that wouldn’t be thrilled about suddenly leaving the US.
The US likely wouldn’t need to pull a trigger against anyone…just support and sell weapons to rural conservative areas during the inevitable California Civil War. That alone would cause enough turmoil to cause a new government to fail.
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u/oxfordcircumstances 1d ago
Do they not teach about the American Civil War anymore?
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u/poptart2nd Flint 1d ago
The American Civil War was fought because both sides wanted to fight. both sides hated each other. There was also not really any kind of standing army to speak of; only 16000 troops incl. 1100 officers. the first battle of bull run was fought between mostly fresh recruits, not hardened soldiers. it was essentially two armies of people who really fuckin wanted to kill each other.
so let me rephrase: who in the current US military would be willing to drop bombs on California if they seceded right now, with no other inciting incident?
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u/Phugger 1d ago
If a state seceded, they would be an enemy of the US and I do believe many in our armed forces would follow orders. It would not be an unlawful order to retake a state that is attempting to secede.
I think the issue would arise depending on how it is ordered. If Donnie wants the military to carpet bomb city centers, soldiers are going to refuse to follow that unlawful order.
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u/ambermage 22h ago
Anyone who is paying attention would see that the most likely course of action would not be a state choosing to leave.
Any action would be Trump attempting to kick states OUT of the union.
There is no legal framework for such an action, but that lack of framework has borne zero relevance in all of the past illegal actions he has taken so far.
You make predictions based on past actions.
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u/NotAnNSAGuyPromise Holt 1d ago
I would. Many would. It wouldn't be the first time, nor any less unjust this time.
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u/SectorIDSupport 1d ago
I think it depends on how the secession is handled. If it is done suddenly without a long detangling I agree, assuming they don't somehow immediately gain control of the nuclear weapons within the state. But I could see the US splitting up with mutual consent at some future point
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u/HowManyEggs2Many 1d ago
There’s not a chance in hell the US government is letting them gain control of any nuclear weapons in the state. That would require federal military bases to suddenly decide to start answering to the state for some reason.
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u/haarschmuck Kalamazoo 1d ago
We had a whole war that decided states cannot leave the union.
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u/NotAnNSAGuyPromise Holt 1d ago
And who won the war?
Hint: The ones suggesting this.
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u/Lord_Vxder 21h ago
Secession is unconstitutional and would be immediately followed by an invasion. The Civil War set a precedent that no state can lawfully leave the Union.
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u/jcrespo21 Ann Arbor 1d ago edited 1d ago
Plus, a significant amount of goods come through the Ports of LA/Long Beach/Oakland as well, and they have a border with Mexico too (as more trade came through Mexico when the West Coast ports were tied up). They have significant leveraging power (edit: Michigan has some ports and the border with Canada, but nothing to that extent).
When we lived in LA, while housing and transportation were more expensive, goods and groceries were actually cheaper there compared to Michigan. So much produce grows in California, and goods coming from East Asia don't have to travel far either.
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u/crazylocsd619 1d ago
so true. moved to MI from San Diego. first thing i noticed was how much more expensive the groceries were.
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u/Its_apparent Waverly 1d ago
Michigan voted for the problem. We could maybe trade with Russia. Vodka for body bags.
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u/Aliensinmypants 1d ago
Did they? Or did Michigan get a strange amount of split voters like every other swing state?
They've been on camera admitting to stealing the election
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u/HildegardofBingo 1d ago
The voting pattern data is super suspicious in so many of the swing states and at the national level, too. Not one single county flipped from red to blue, but 88 counties flipped from blue to red. That didn't even happen when Reagan swept the swing states (I think it was around 30 counties that flipped for Mondale).
"Elon knows those vote counting computers... and then we won PA by a landslide!" -Donald Trump
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u/a_lilac_mess Grand Rapids 1d ago
This isn't mentioned enough when people say MI is red/went to Trump. Too many wild anomalies happened with voting. This election was stolen.
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u/littlelupie 1d ago
Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but while our electoral college votes went to trump, I'm still not entirely certain we actually voted that way...
That's neither here nor there though. We still have Democrats in charge at a state level and this would happen on a state level. (Yes I know you're joking, kind of, but my points still stand)
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u/Lord_Vxder 21h ago
This is not legal, and nothing will result from this.
Article I, Section 10, Clause 3:
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
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u/Careless-Cake-9360 9h ago edited 1h ago
California doesn't have a unified government, Gavin is a conservadem who keeps fighting the progressive Dems in his own state legislatures attempts to fix the problems with his state.
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u/CountChoculasGhost 1d ago
Illinois has been doing it too. Pritzker just got back from a trade mission to Mexico.
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u/ghallway Age: > 10 Years 1d ago
I sure hope we can! I'd love to see a trade agreement with Canada! I applaud what they've done in Illinois.
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u/sirziggy Detroit 21h ago
busiest international trade border in north america is in michigan. it would be unwise not to.
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u/Bad_Wizardry 1d ago
The only way Michigan gets involved is if California extends their negotiations to a coalition of states. California doesn’t need the US, the US needs California.
Michigan does not carry that weight.
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u/damienbarrett Downriver 1d ago edited 1d ago
If NY, NJ, and CT join, I could see it working, but then you're clearly in "secession" territory. Might as well join Canada as new Provinces....
Edit: fixed a word
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u/Bradddtheimpaler 1d ago
I would be 100% on board with that. Being a Michigander has always been a big part of my identity but being an American I regard as merely an unfortunate circumstance.
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u/AcadiaWonderful1796 1d ago
Perhaps we should have a serious discussion about whether being part of the United States is helping or hindering our states at this point
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u/TakenUsername120184 Da Soo Eh 1d ago
I just want you to know that after the first civil war, the states should’ve stayed separate based on our values and morals.
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u/NotAnNSAGuyPromise Holt 1d ago
Or, rather, we should have burned the entire south to the ground, executed every single traitor, and outlawed any display or monument to it (e.g., flags, statues, names, etc.). Just as Germany did to the Nazis.
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u/Training-Fold-4684 1d ago
No, the next step after electing a senile, drug-addicted dictator should not be asking whether we should dissolve the nation. It should be figuring out how to endure the crisis without destroying ourselves in the process. Then, placing limits on the Executive so that we are not subject to every petulant whim of any future assholes we manage to elect.
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u/AcadiaWonderful1796 1d ago
The executive is only half the problem. Conservatives in the Federalist Society and Heritage Foundation have spent decades using dark money and political influence to install Christian extremist judges across the federal judiciary including the US Supreme Court. The judicial branch of the federal government is compromised, and those people have lifetime appointments. If were to save this country, we would need a strong democratic mandate in Congress and the presidency, big enough to fix the judiciary by impeaching and removing compromised judges and expanding the Supreme Court to allow a democrat president to appoint enough liberal justices to have a majority again.
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u/themolenator617 1d ago
Don’t forget the rest of New England, except NH.
California and New England, NY have ports. It would be wise to add Michigan to save the Great Lakes. Water will be like oil one day
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u/NumberSudden9722 1d ago
That's not an option (joining Canada) unfortunately, but if y'all do break off we're more than happy to deepen our relationships with you as new allies.
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u/em_washington Muskegon 1d ago
Joining Canada wouldn't make sense, because those states are bigger than Canada. That would be more like Canada joining them. And Canadians seem highly opposed to joining the states.
California+NY alone is 6.4 trillion of GDP. All of Canada is 2.1 trillion GDP. Michigan is 0.7 trillion. So Michigan's economy is 1/3rd of all of Canada.
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u/NotAnNSAGuyPromise Holt 1d ago
No, Cascadia is its own thing. Our thing would be a partnership with Canada, possibly with Wisconsin. A Great Lakes Union.
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u/Catdaddy84 1d ago
So Michigan and Wisconsin vote for the man who destroys their economy and then has to partner with his enemy to get relief? Uhhhh... It's like layers upon layers of stupid.
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u/happytrel Age: > 10 Years 1d ago
Elon's meat shield, I mean son's, commentary on the Pennsylvania election has led me to question that.
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u/Tsujigiri 1d ago
As a native Michigander who has lived in California for a few decades I would love nothing more to see a union here. But this person is right. Michigan has strong partners much closer to home.
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u/Tsujigiri 1d ago
As a quick follow up, I have absolute Governor envy for my home state atm. Newsome is a douche.
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u/em_washington Muskegon 1d ago
Michigan is the 14th US state in GDP. If we were a country, we'd be 22nd in the world. It's not like we are some tiny meaningless state.
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u/Bad_Wizardry 1d ago
Sure, we’re certainly not Mississippi.
But there’s a host of legal hurdles that i admittedly don’t know of. Add to it that Michigan is a purple state, all the GOP rats in Lansing would fight this tooth and nail.
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u/Phugger 23h ago
Then those rats can fight it, but a lot of them are representing rural areas that are going to be hit very hard by the downturn. Their constituents are known for being understanding when they are experiencing the consequences of their poor decisions. I think the rats are going to be busy at home.
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u/MIGsalund Age: > 10 Years 1d ago
The United States absolutely does need the auto industry, so Michigan still has bargaining power.
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u/Bad_Wizardry 1d ago
lol. More cars are built outside of Michigan than in it. GM and Ford just maintain their HQs here because they receive beneficial subsidies.
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u/Lord_Vxder 21h ago
This is not legal, and nothing will result from this.
Article I, Section 10, Clause 3:
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
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u/unnoticed77 1d ago
Governor JB Pritzker signed a memorandum of understanding between Mexico and Illinois on Monday during a trade mission.
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u/solikelife 1d ago
It's a nice thought, but California is the 5th largest economy in the world on its own and has far more to work with across all categories. So, it doesn't surprise me that this is move for California but it's not nearly as viable for all other states - not sure how Michigan stacks up in the mix.
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u/diito_ditto 1d ago
It would be far more effective if Congress just did its job. They could shut this down in a day by just removing both Trump and Vance and everyone that's been appointed. Revoke the President's ability to tariff and the tariffs that have been applied. Don't let Mike Johnson anywhere near the Whitehouse.
I don't understand the logic of these Republican cowards in Congress. At least half of them KNOW just how bad everything Trump is doing is but they seem to still be thinking they'll lose power if they speak up or put their lives in danger. I have news for them. Their lives are in much more danger if this continues. Destroying generations of wealth is going to bring violence. That's what always happens in these scenarios. They've all already ost their jobs in 2026, provided legit elections can still happen.
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u/No-Beach-7923 1d ago
Pritzer is doing this too...Are we still doing to the united states of america after all this or seperate states? What will be the point of having a federal government?
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u/scrume71 1d ago
Can Michigan be annexed by Canada. If only for the healthcare (ok, and lack of rapey-felon-fascist-bigoted President).
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u/kittenTakeover 1d ago
This will likely be struck down really quick as it's unconstitutional.
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u/Loki240SX Dearborn 1d ago
Federal government clearly doesn't value the Constitution, why should the state government
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u/significant-_-otter 1d ago
The way to enforce rule of law is not to jump on the bandwagon of those trying to destroy the rule of law, but...I get it
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u/KemosabeTheDivine 1d ago
This is the same thought process the Democrats had by showing decorum and not “stooping to their level” when dealing with Trump and MAGA. Look where it got them in the ‘24 election. All rules are out of the window!
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u/just_a_bit_gay_ Ann Arbor 1d ago
The rule of law is dead, there’s functionally nothing left to enforce
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u/PissNBiscuits 1d ago
As Trump and the rest of the MAGA ghouls are showing, a silly thing like the Constitution won't be enough to stop it from happening.
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u/littlelupie 1d ago
And? I hope California pays as much attention to what the constitution/SCOTUS says as trump does.
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u/SwayingBacon 1d ago edited 1d ago
During the Newsom Administration alone, California has signed 38 international agreements with 28 different foreign partners that lay critical groundwork for prolonged economic success as well as prioritizing workers and businesses that benefit from these new opportunities. (Soruce: Press release)
It is not unconstitutional. States often make their own deals with foreign companies. Michigan has even done it a few times to court investment in the state. California won't be ignoring or changing the tariffs but trying to make deals so retaliatory tariffs impact the state less.
They could also create relief programs for the state that offsets the increase in prices from domestic and foreign tariffs.
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u/Sekshual_Tyranosauce Grand Rapids 1d ago
If it is, as the title implies, to circumvent tariffs which are federal law, then yes this will violate the supremacy clause.
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u/SwayingBacon 1d ago
UK and Texas pledge closer trade ties. A wider deal with the US government has stalled
These types of things do not violate the supremacy clause and are very common. A state can make an agreement to try and reduce the impact of tariffs but those tariffs will still be paid because of federal policy.
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u/Lord_Vxder 21h ago
Companies, not Countries. Key distinction there.
Article I, Section 10, Clause 3:
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
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u/SwayingBacon 21h ago
UK and Texas pledge closer trade ties. A wider deal with the US government has stalled
UK and Florida sign pact to boost trade
States can make deals that are non-binding agreements to do certain things. They do not violate the supremacy clause and have been used for decades. They can be made with companies, countries, or other investors.
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u/lmaberley 1d ago
God help them the next time there’s a forest fire because the feds certainly won’t.
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u/No-Definition1474 1d ago
Didn't they already refund FEMA?
So that ship already sailed. If all the states that could deal with a major disaster, CA is one of the best able to. The real lovers will be places like SC or LA when they get hit with another big storm.
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u/azrolator 1d ago
You mean Trump won't throw all the needed farm water in the ocean next time? Don't threaten California with a good time.
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u/Aliensinmypants 1d ago
God help the federal government if California stops paying them. California is the 4 or 5th largest economy in the world
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u/BornAgainBlue 1d ago
Are you lost? This is the Michigan subreddit.
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u/lmaberley 1d ago
That’s why I said “them” snd not “you.” It says California right in the headline.
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u/JonMWilkins Detroit 1d ago
I'm pretty doubtful Make sure to want to do that.
Michigan voted for Trump and is a swing state. We are part of the problem. Most retaliatory tariffs are meant to Target red States, specifically swing states.
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u/Reddit_2_2024 1d ago
During Prohibition, people in Michigan established a lot of unorthodox trade partners and routes.
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u/txyesboy2 1d ago
<California, Michigan> "States Rights, bitches!"
<Arkansas, Tennessee> "Hey waaiiit, not like that!"
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u/txyesboy2 1d ago
I'm saying that Cali & Michigan should do this because they have ports and can bypass this crap, while southern states without the ability to rapidly import as easily should suffer because of it. In short, I'm saying "do it, this is an awesome idea!"
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u/svenviko 21h ago
Literally no country needs Michigan or its exports, particularly its brain rot MAGA population.
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u/Pulp_Ficti0n Age: > 10 Years 1d ago
California is the world's fifth largest economy; Michigan is not. This will be adjudicated soon anyhow.
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u/em_washington Muskegon 1d ago
Michigan's economy isn't exactly small. If Michigan were a country, it's GDP would be 22nd in the world.
Some countries that Michigan ranks higher than in GDP: Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Argentina, Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Colombia, South Africa.
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u/Catssonova Lansing 1d ago
I don't get the comments here thinking states can circumvent international commerce laws. No state is allowed to make an arrangement that stops tariffs from affecting them. The most they can do is attempt to build relationships with foreign groups to encourage trade with industries from their state
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u/NotAnNSAGuyPromise Holt 1d ago
Imagine thinking that this conversation is about the law (that apparently only select states need to follow). We are advocating for action IN SPITE OF the law.
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u/Catssonova Lansing 19h ago
I have no idea what you are saying about only some states need to follow the law. International commerce is regulated by the government. These trips are more of a political statement than anything in the current trade environment. No country can sign a trade deal with a state. A country can sign a deal to source goods from a company which is in the state. That's what these trips would normally be for, but given the fact that everything will cost 30% more after retaliatory tariffs, it is rather pointless. The states would be better to start pushing a constitutional amendment to prevent the president from pushing tariffs.
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u/hyperfunkulus 22h ago
I wish this article included some analysis of the legal viability of this idea.
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u/Fine_Inspection8090 20h ago
I would think she’s already on the ball with that and has people on it.
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u/MrPi48867 10h ago
The Civil War started this way and I’m pretty sure that States going around Federal policy would be the constitutional crisis I hear so much about.
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u/Ted9783829 9h ago
This is literally part of the contentions that led to the Civil War. The North liked tariffs on British industrial goods, to help force Southern farmers to buy domestic industrial goods that were produced in the Northeast, and were more expensive, and the South didn’t like the tariffs.
Apparently, nowadays secession in the name of tariffs is patriotic.
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u/simpletonius 17h ago
How about get a handle on your nutcase president? Half of Michigan voted for him..
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u/Striking-Wasabi-4212 1d ago
Michigan voted for Trump. You get what you deserve.
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u/Decent-Gas-7042 21h ago
100%. As a Canadian whose whole country is under threat I feel no empathy. Michigan voted for Trump TWICE
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u/haarschmuck Kalamazoo 1d ago
No, because it will be immediately struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional.
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u/SelectKangaroo 18h ago
Hope Gavin Newsom throws such a ruling from SCOTUS straight in the trash where it belongs if they try it 🙏
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u/Thespud1979 21h ago
What? Michigan voted for tariffs. Trump promised tariffs and Michigan voters said yes please
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u/JimLeahe 11h ago
Article I Legislative Branch
Section 10 Powers Denied States
Clause 1 Proscribed Powers
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
I doubt this will be possible.
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u/Nature_Hannah 1d ago
Whitmer has already been talking to European countries about this kind of thing.
https://michiganadvance.com/2025/03/31/as-whitmer-wraps-up-european-economic-collaboration-trip-critics-say-she-should-focus-on-michigan/