[Bozi] How robots are helping teams like Hendrick Motorsports make better, faster race cars
https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/hendrick-motorsports-shows-how-robots-help-nascar-make-better-faster-race-cars/10709885/47
u/Moppyploppy 20h ago
I get that Chase and Larson have dry personalities but they didn't have to call them robots. Damn.
/s
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u/NormalDrop561 8h ago
Leaving out Byron in the potential robot conversation is giving him too much credit.
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u/Moppyploppy 8h ago
Byron isn't a robot. That's just mean, dude.
He's an AI program designed to mimic a prototypical idea of a "race car driver" that gained sentience and walks among us.
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u/LBHMS 22h ago
Super insightful read as always from Bozi for some of the technical nerds in here like myself. I really wonder if other spec series go to this extent with CMM and buying all of these parts to find the best one. Especially IndyCar, which I recall Chad Knaus saying on DWR I believe that when they went to visit the McLaren IndyCar shop ahead of Larson's Indy 500 run last year, they asked them "Where's your romer arms" and the McLaren guys were like "What for?" or something to that extent.
Obviously while spec, Indy has a lot of development going on with shocks since those are still open IIRC.
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u/East-Independent6778 11h ago
INDYCAR is actually a bit more open in terms of spec parts. Dampers, bearings, fuel collectors, and brake ducts, for instance, are pretty much open. There are quite a few other parts that the teams can manufacture themselves, or source from somewhere other than Dallara, but they still have to adhere to the part template.
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u/MrBadBadly Martin 22h ago
It's stuff like this that does not help the team's claims that they need more money.
I get why they're doing it. I get the thought process.
But Jesus, is it fucking wasteful.
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u/Bozi_ Bozi Tatarevic 13h ago
It likely costs them less than hiring more people to do a more manual process of measuring parts manually especially since they likely have some pricing benefit from the exposure Hexagon gets through them and the ability for Hexagon to show potential customers the lab onsite at Hendrick.
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u/MrBadBadly Martin 8h ago
That's a good point about the marketing potential/exposure Hexagon gets through this.
My head is still just blown that we're at a point where teams are basically ranking parts based on dimensions so that they can match sets of the parts so that they can find a small advantage. It would be expensive for any smaller team to do what HMS is doing and kinda runs counter to the point of it being a "spec" car and saving teams money. Though I remember when IndyCar brought in the DW12, there was a big uproar on the upcharges of spare parts from Dallara that teams had to source from them, as the previous creation of aero components and other carbon fiber pieces (and I think suspension pieces) were outlawed. The teams got a price break on the tub, but then gouged on parts.
I remember Justin Marks basically saying that's what's happening here with the new car being cheaper in some areas, but then more expensive in others.
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u/iamaranger23 22h ago
Acquiring of Next Gen Single Source Vendor-supplied parts and/or assemblies in excess quantities for the purpose (in part or in full) of testing and sorting parts for performance gains will not be permitted.
is one of the first rules in the rule book.
im sure they arent throwing ones out. just sorting. but it really doesnt seem like a spend of money that benefits the sport.
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u/Bozi_ Bozi Tatarevic 13h ago
They’re not acquiring excess parts. Just finding more efficient ways to organize the parts that they have as part of their normal order of assembling and disassembling their cars. They could accomplish similar tasks by hiring people to measure parts manually but instead are using technology to automate a part of the process.
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u/LBHMS 21h ago
So why have they not been penalized for it, when they're openly flaunting it here if it's clearly explicitly stating it's not permitted (whether being sorted or thrown out, they're still buying in excess)?
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u/iamaranger23 19h ago
There's probably a pretty wide gray line on what is buying in bulk and what is buying in excess.
As long as they aren't buying more parts than races, I don't see there being much of an issue (from a rule book perspective, not a wastefulness). I doubt NASCAR is able to keep a paper trail on how most parts get used anyway.
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u/Broad-Association206 22h ago edited 22h ago
Yes, this is why there needs to be a rule change that mandates parts are used in sequential order.
Instead of having big teams measuring parts to the exact amount, customizing their allocation, discarding unsatisfactory parts, etc...
Simply mandate that parts are used in order of purchase. Got a few parts that don't line up too well or advantageously? That sucks for you, it'll happen to everyone. A small team gets lucky and gets the perfect fit for a weekend and gains an advantage? Good for the sport!
You could literally hire a NASCAR approved Inspector to track this for every team every week and come out ahead on the cost savings from not buying tons of parts just to find the magic parts fit.
This brings down costs, adds more variety to week to week performance of teams, creates bigger gaps between the performance of cars on a given week, and literally improves the racing in every way.
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u/East-Independent6778 11h ago
You could just embed RFID tags into the parts and code them so that they are sequential based on manufacturing dates. Then just roll the whole car through an RFID scanning array to ensure they used the right parts.
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u/PeeNButts Earnhardt Sr. 9h ago
Mandating parts to be used in sequential order sounds nice until you realize there have been very real quality control inconsistencies from several suppliers that require teams to pick and choose from parts batches. The next sequential part could be out of NASCAR’s tolerance or could be right on the edge, so teams will bypass that part and choose one that is more within tolerance. That happens before teams even get into things like what Hendrick is doing for part specification optimization. It’s not as simple as team X is using an unoptimized part while team Y gets a better one, team X could very well fail inspection and be penalized through no fault of their own if this was mandated.
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u/my_bandit 12h ago
So they should, in theory, never get penalized for an out of spec part again right? But I'd love to see a direct comparison to how this actually helps. Aka, take a car they've maximized and take a car they assemble without this fancy equipment (but same general setup) and do a direct comparison with the same track/driver/day.
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u/3LoneStars 12h ago
I’m all for tech deployment, but this sport needs a hard spending cap and a better revenue share.
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u/Kevinm0388 22h ago
I hate that this sport has come down to purely who has the most money. Having a clever/experienced engineer, car chief, crew chief, whatever does not matter as much anymore as they can’t work their true magic on these cars. It all boils down to who can buy the most spec parts to get the best one possible due to there inconsistencies.
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u/Sim_Shift Johnson 20h ago
Brother when has it not. Every form of Motorsport even down to karting is who has the most money. Sure guys will have good runs (like you still see in cup today) but it all comes down to money. Everything does.
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u/Aco3dngr Johnson 21h ago
All of the winners this year come from essentially the 3 big teams. HMS, JGR, Penske
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u/Enough_Worth8868 11h ago
Perhaps Brad k could benefit from this technology maybe they could also build him a personality
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u/HalfastEddie 22h ago
This is the perfect answer for anyone who asks what performance can the money actually buy. Well-written piece. Definite must-read for tech fans.