r/Portland • u/UOfasho Rip City • 1d ago
News WWeek | Portland Moguls Discuss Poll to Test Repeal of Preschool for All
https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2025/04/04/portland-business-moguls-discuss-poll-to-test-repeal-of-preschool-for-all/45
u/Blackstar1886 1d ago
Preschool is so crazy expensive I was never sure how this was going to work. At the same time, preschool is crazy expensive and, to the chagrin of the many anti-natalists on this sub, families are important to the long-term stability of this city. Portland has already had a lower percentage of children than NYC or LA. The only city doing worse is San Francisco which is facing its own steady population drain.
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u/StreetwalkinCheetah 1d ago
I think the issue is they created what was supposed to be a "universal" program on a "soak the rich" tax scheme and a) it has been anything but universal b) "the rich" includes a sweeping amount of middle-income families with large debt to income ratios and c) there's a large chunk of families paying for their own pre-school out of their own pockets that are also in group b paying for other kids to get it while they struggle.
Probably the correct thing to do is make everyone pay it at a reduced rate while also expanding access as some for of tax credit so it truly is universal and allows schools that are open right now and ready but having trouble getting approval to take these children.
The administration both in collecting the tax and in getting kids enrolled has been a nightmare on both fronts.
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u/pedalpowerpdx 1d ago
This was my family.
Kids in preschool and every month we were behind, but come tax time we pay the tax, yes a small amount, however it was salt in the wound when I am seeing our debt climb to pay for our own kids as the cost for spots was climbing steadily and spots were less expensive outside of the city.
It wasn't the driving factor but it contributed to the choice to move as we just saw more of this happening in the future and the public school our kids would go to was subpar at best.
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u/_amosburton 1d ago
So pre school for all tax only applies to people with an AGI of $125 as a single filer, meaning you gross around $165k or more. Or a married couple AGI of $200k, meaning you make gross $260k or more.
How is your debt climbing making either of those amounts?
I have mixed feelings about PFA, but you have a spending problem. We've managed to get two kids through pre school making a hell of a lot less than that.
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u/blackmamba182 Dignity Village 1d ago
Medical debt, student loans, helping other family members, could only buy a house when interest rates were high, unexpected repairs to cars and home. Shit adds up, you are just very privileged.
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u/pedalpowerpdx 1d ago
Hit it pretty dead on.
Student loans for advanced degrees. Both came from middle lower families.
House had a 6.5% rate and didn’t get in before houses went up in price either.
Aging parents that will need help.
Our jobs have demand just across the river so we moved before we were looking at needing to consider private school because of PPS.
The savings means our total tax burden was reduced to the point that it was our mortgage payment. Kids now in public school and we can pay off student loans quickly. That wasn’t going to happen in Portland proper.
Its sad as my kids would have been 4th generation born and raised in Portland.
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u/StreetwalkinCheetah 1d ago
This to me is the part that is fundamentally unfair and why this tax feels like a failure. I'm a bit older, paid my own way for kiddo through school. Survived a costly divorce. Make under the threshold, but because I'm a bit older I don't have all the debt new families do today.
Oh, and W2 families should not have to file taxes quarterly to the city and county because they made a tax they can't properly collect. I mean c'mon.
I'm sorry you had to leave. I get to frustrated with this city and I do think that I may try snowbirding when my kiddo graduates high school, or just travel more. But I know that what I get living in this city would be hard to replace anywhere else without 10s of millions of dollars. But the infrastructure and poor schools and other challenges this city faces seem like mismanagement and self inflicted wounds and we can do a lot better.
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u/pedalpowerpdx 20h ago
That’s a great point. All of these taxes are driving out the younger families who didn’t get on the ladder earlier. We did everything right and pulled ourselves up to be told we were privileged and should accept the cost.
We probably could have made it work however it would have been a much later retirement and that didn’t make sense for us.
I worry for Portland that as the older group that can absorb these taxes age out it’s going to look bleak as there are less behind to replace them.
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u/StreetwalkinCheetah 20h ago
The thing that sucks is I moved here to raise a family and until we divorced we did it on one high five figure income. That's impossible now. I think what sucks is like many boomers pulled the ladder up and now are completely oblivious as to how hard the succeeding generations have had it, there's a good chunk of people that don't realize how unaffordable Portland has become and that 125k isn't rich here anymore. Even people that got in the housing market before 2013 or so with a low interest mortgage are going to be completely oblivious to the challenges of someone 10 years later. Something is very wrong considering the job market here isn't amazing and is still largely service based.
Hopefully the next Portland doesn't suffer the same fate.
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u/AlienDelarge 1d ago
We have been able to weather it but so many friends have left the city and even state beause of the climbing cost of living here. I'm not sure we are far behind them.
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u/_amosburton 1d ago
Lol no you make more than I've ever made.
It's hilarious to call me privileged. Try living on half that or less and then cry me a story about how hard life is.
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u/DesertNachos 1d ago
Without knowing anything about your DTI, maybe you’re privileged to have never had student loans, medical debt or aging parents
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u/pedalpowerpdx 20h ago
I wasn't going to take the time to respond, however I think its worth just showing what it looks like for a young family in Portland with higher income parents who both work. I used your example of 260000 a year and put in costs that were close to what we had or average for the area.
The house would be about 500k with 10% down. Average cost for day care is $1600+ for children under 2. Student loans of 100K each with standard 20 year pay off.
You see how the money is gobbled up by fixed costs with $7240 a year for things that aren't expected and the local taxes.
|| || | |Cost|Income total| |Gross| |260000| |Gross Monthly| |21666.6667| |Retirement|1000|20666.6667| |Net Monthly|0.68|14053.3333| |Mortgage|4000|10053.3333| |Student loans|2500|7553.33333| |Insurance|400|7153.33333| |Groceries|1500|5653.33333| |Day Care x2|3500|2153.33333| |House Bills|350|1803.33333| |Car Payment|600|1203.33333| |House Maintenance|500|703.333333| |Phone bill|100|603.333333| |Extra for the year| |7240 |
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u/pedalpowerpdx 20h ago
I wasn't going to take the time to respond, however I think its worth just showing what it looks like for a young family in Portland with higher income parents who both work. I used your example of 260000 a year and put in costs that were close to what we had or average for the area.
The house would be about 500k with 10% down. Average cost for day care is $1600+ for children under 2. Student loans of 100K each with standard 20 year pay off.
You see how the money is gobbled up by fixed costs with $7240 a year for things that aren't expected and the local taxes.
|| || | |Cost|Income total| |Gross| |260000| |Gross Monthly| |21666.6667| |Retirement|1000|20666.6667| |Net Monthly|0.68|14053.3333| |Mortgage|4000|10053.3333| |Student loans|2500|7553.33333| |Insurance|400|7153.33333| |Groceries|1500|5653.33333| |Day Care x2|3500|2153.33333| |House Bills|350|1803.33333| |Car Payment|600|1203.33333| |House Maintenance|500|703.333333| |Phone bill|100|603.333333| |Extra for the year| |7240 |
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u/pedalpowerpdx 20h ago
I wasn't going to take the time to respond, however I think its worth just showing what it looks like for a young family in Portland with higher income parents who both work. I used your example of 260000 a year and put in costs that were close to what we had or average for the area.
The house would be about 500k with 10% down. Average cost for day care is $1600+ for children under 2. Student loans of 100K each with standard 20 year pay off.
You see how the money is gobbled up by fixed costs with $7240 a year for things that aren't expected and the local taxes.
|| || | |Cost|Income total| |Gross| |260000| |Gross Monthly| |21666.6667| |Retirement|1000|20666.6667| |Net Monthly|0.68|14053.3333| |Mortgage|4000|10053.3333| |Student loans|2500|7553.33333| |Insurance|400|7153.33333| |Groceries|1500|5653.33333| |Day Care x2|3500|2153.33333| |House Bills|350|1803.33333| |Car Payment|600|1203.33333| |House Maintenance|500|703.333333| |Phone bill|100|603.333333| |Extra for the year| |7240 |
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u/pedalpowerpdx 20h ago
I wasn't going to take the time to respond, however I think its worth just showing what it looks like for a young family in Portland with higher income parents who both work. I used your example of 260000 a year and put in costs that were close to what we had or average for the area.
The house would be about 500k with 10% down. Average cost for day care is $1600+ for children under 2. Student loans of 100K each with standard 20 year pay off.
You see how the money is gobbled up by fixed costs with $7240 a year for things that aren't expected and the local taxes.
|| || | |Cost|Income total| |Gross| |260000| |Gross Monthly| |21666.6667| |Retirement|1000|20666.6667| |Net Monthly|0.68|14053.3333| |Mortgage|4000|10053.3333| |Student loans|2500|7553.33333| |Insurance|400|7153.33333| |Groceries|1500|5653.33333| |Day Care x2|3500|2153.33333| |House Bills|350|1803.33333| |Car Payment|600|1203.33333| |House Maintenance|500|703.333333| |Phone bill|100|603.333333| |Extra for the year| |7240|
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u/pedalpowerpdx 20h ago
I wasn't going to take the time to respond, however I think its worth just showing what it looks like for a young family in Portland with higher income parents who both work. I used your example of 260000 a year and put in costs that were close to what we had or average for the area.
The house would be about 500k with 10% down. Average cost for day care is $1600+ for children under 2. Student loans of 100K each with standard 20 year pay off.
You see how the money is gobbled up by fixed costs with $7240 a year for things that aren't expected and the local taxes.
|| || | |Cost|Income total| |Gross| |260000| |Gross Monthly| |21666.6667| |Retirement|1000|20666.6667| |Net Monthly|0.68|14053.3333| |Mortgage|4000|10053.3333| |Student loans|2500|7553.33333| |Insurance|400|7153.33333| |Groceries|1500|5653.33333| |Day Care x2|3500|2153.33333| |House Bills|350|1803.33333| |Car Payment|600|1203.33333| |House Maintenance|500|703.333333| |Phone bill|100|603.333333| |Extra for the year| |7240|
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u/_amosburton 18h ago
Yeah, some of us have a lot of the same things, a young family, student loans, and don't make $260k.
Try that budget making half or less and then you'll see how the rest of us live and somehow manage.
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u/pedalpowerpdx 20h ago
Might be helpful to look at these numbers from a young families perspective.
Below is estimates but covers it pretty well. House would be $500k with 10% down, student loans of $200K for two advanced degrees, and standard cost for daycare in the area.
That "extra" has to cover everything else you want to do outside of fixed costs and you see how even $1000 a year in local taxes hurts.
Move across the river and that extra cell becomes over 20k which can wipe out the student loans quickly or mean earlier retirement.
|| || ||Cost|Income total| |Gross| |260000| |Gross Monthly| |21666.6667| |Retirement|1000|20666.6667| |Net Monthly|0.68|14053.3333| |Mortgage|4000|10053.3333| |Student loans|2500|7553.33333| |Insurance|400|7153.33333| |Groceries|1500|5653.33333| |Day Care x2|3500|2153.33333| |House Bills|350|1803.33333| |Car Payment|600|1203.33333| |House Maintenance|500|703.333333| |Phone bill|100|603.333333| |Extra for the year| |7240 |
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u/AlienDelarge 1d ago
They also seem to have made zero real effort in bringing any additional preschool capacity as advertised and instead merely brought in existing preschools and not even ones that would have made the most sense like PPR ones at the community centers.
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u/StreetwalkinCheetah 1d ago
That's the part that seems inexcusable to me is if they are just bringing in existing preschools there's no reason for the administrative hurdles and red tape preventing people from taking advantage of this service that is fully funded.
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u/AlienDelarge 23h ago
Considering the name of the group that got it rolling, Portland DSA’s Tax the Rich working group, I'm skeptical that preschool was really the primary goal anyway. We just had to punish rich folk who totally can't just up and leave.
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u/gravitydefiant 1d ago
It was never supposed to be universal yet. They rolled it out with something like a ten-year plan to build capacity. There was never a promise that it would serve every child in Multnomah County in 2025.
So the problem as I see it is that it's a decent program, and people are mad that it isn't a magic wand.
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u/StreetwalkinCheetah 1d ago
Yes of course there is a ramp up, but it's a) brought in more money than expected and b) rolled out slower than expected. And on top of that a growing group of people are in that C group of paying for others while out of pocket for themselves.
The program was called "preschool for all" - at least do the people paying the tax the courtesy of also letting them take advantage of it while it rolls out.
My kid is in high school nor am I currently paying the tax, so I have no skin in this game. Just think the roll out is not how you do a successful universal program. For example Social Security, the most successful and long lasting universal program did give it's initial participants a free ride but everyone on it today has paid for it their whole lives and the benefits are based on their contributions. That is why it is a third rail. Making a whole bunch of people pay for something they will never net benefit from, and possibly while they are directly not benefiting when they would be eligible is going to generate so much bitterness.
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u/AlienDelarge 1d ago
Are you sure it wasn't supposed to be universal? This seems to suggest that was in fact the goal that that may have been secomdary to taxing those evil rich folk.
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u/gravitydefiant 20h ago
Yes, it's supposed to be universal. Five years from now, according to your link.
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u/accounts_baleeted 1d ago
So by middle income, are we talking mean median or mode? Because I think the people paying are waaaay over those.
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u/StreetwalkinCheetah 1d ago
I'm talking about practical income for a late 20s/early 30s family in Portland.
Most people I know under that threshold simply aren't having kids today and don't plan to. The average 25-34 year old is carrying nearly 40k in student debt. I am under the threshold myself as a divorced parent but my kid is halfway through high school and I got here 20 years ago when the housing market here was different not to mention I wasn't carrying any student debt. Still if the program never scales for inflation there's a near certain chance I will be paying it in 2-3 years and while I am reasonably well off and should be 100% debt free by then my lifestyle is far from glitzy or glamorous. I can't imagine making 125k with 40k in student loans, trying to save for or pay down a mortgage in today's market, drive a sensible car for a kid or two, and being able to pay for pre-school while also trying to contribute to a college fund and make retirement contributions. Even with a similar earning spouse, assuming the same level of debt something would have to give.
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u/derpinpdx Truth Seeker 1d ago
Man you’ve really made it when a newspaper headline describes you as a “mogul”. Break out the cigars, y’all!
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u/ladyofatreides I Survived Snowpocalypse MMXXI! 1d ago
I read the headline thinking “what does skiing have to do with it”
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u/stinkspiritt 1d ago
So you were one of these people they describe?
Real estate mogul Greg Goodman sent an email March 27 to 10 other Portland businessmen asking them to chip in $5,000 each for the poll.
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u/pdx_mom 1d ago
And the monocle and top hat.
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u/PlainNotToasted 1d ago
If Goodman doesn't wear a monacle and use a cigarette holder then that stereotype shouldn't exist.
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u/wolfwind730 Piedmont 1d ago
Do it and fucking do SHS
Both are badly administered and shouldn’t be the county level
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u/Aesir_Auditor District 1 1d ago
Fucking hell.
What a stupid idea.
No need for a repeal. You just need to amend it so that the incentive is spot generation instead of the county just buying up the existing spots and kicking out existing pre-schoolers.
This is a good measure implemented horribly.
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u/Mayor_Of_Sassyland 1d ago
This is a good measure implemented horribly.
This describes any potentially good measure if it would ultimately be implemented by Mult. Co., which at a certain point philosophically and practically means there really isn't any good measure that involves Mult. Co.
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u/PaPilot98 Goose Hollow 1d ago
Or metro.
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u/MurderOfChros 1d ago
Metro’s natural areas program is awesome, so I’ve got their back on bond measures.
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u/ZaphBeebs 1d ago
Nope. A good idea. Bad measure. Decent at federal level, it's a lot for a metro area to shoulder though.
Just create a program that helps those with certain incomes help to find their own.
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u/Aestro17 District 3 19h ago
1000%. For all of our weird separate taxes, I think this one has the most potential, but it needs to be reworked to actually produce new preschool slots.
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u/Herodotus_Runs_Away 18h ago
This is a good measure implemented horribly.
How a policy is implemented is the policy. Implementation is policy. Otherwise, you could apply this argument ad absurdum to anything. After all, it basically boils down to "any policy idea I like is still a good idea, and if it has problems it's just because they didn't implement it properly." This position is essentially a faith position as it is unfalsifiable.
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u/DinQuixote Kenton 1d ago
I think Greg Goodman has too much time on his hands. Rather than trying to influence local politics from the shadows by straw polling or challenging charter reform in court, he should resign from his nepotistic ceremonial position at the Downtown Development Group and run for office.
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u/Adventurous-Mud-5508 Arbor Lodge 1d ago
The six ballot initiatives the poll will test: Requiring a minimum number of police officers for the city; requiring Multnomah County to fund 700 jail beds, which Goodman says are currently sitting vacant; requiring third-party audits of Multnomah County programs; an in-person work mandate for city and county employees; restricting where “tents, tarps and sleeping bags can be distributed and used;” and repealing Multnomah County’s Preschool for All tax.
I like some of these ideas.
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u/nfjcbxudnx Powellhurst-Gilbert 1d ago
I think time would be better spent trying to get better County leadership rather than trying to micromanage the County by ballot initiative.
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u/cheese7777777 1d ago
That doesn’t seem possible in our county - the past election saw Singleton and Moyer win the county seats.
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u/nfjcbxudnx Powellhurst-Gilbert 1d ago
Yeah I hear you. I think there’s a problem with the candidate pool, which makes sense considering JVP holds all the power anyway. Maybe some reform of the board system is the place to start? I don’t know the answers, I just think handcuffing them in these limited ways isn’t going to get the results anyone wants.
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u/AtticWisdom 1d ago
Jesus, those first two, though. The Portland Police Association essentially tried to do both of those things with a ballot measure last year (it was a detox center instead of jail beds, but close enough) and a judge struck the measure down as unconstitutional because it was trying to dictate administrative decisions. And PPA literally came up with those after putting out a push-poll through DHM. Why are these knuckleheads just doing the same crap over and over again?
And with the police officer levels, PPB still has more funded positions than they have been able to fill. That's been the problem since like 2020, at least. They don't need a cash infusion to hire a bunch more officers, they just need to hire a bunch more officers. A starting salary is over $80k, plus they're almost guaranteed as much overtime pay as they can stomach.
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u/sharksrReal 1d ago
Def not a fact of funding for more police staffing. Throw all the money you want at cop salaries, it won’t move the needle much. Potential po-po know Stumptown is a no-go.
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u/skysurfguy1213 1d ago
MultCo could not manage a garage sale. Stop giving them new funds to light on fire.
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u/gravitydefiant 1d ago
Please survey me! I would love to tell the inappropriately-named Greg Goodman what I think of him.
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u/KevinMango 15h ago
A local businessman with too much time and money on his hands wants to cut social services for working class people, wow.
What makes he and his friends think now is a good time to try this when oligarchs at the national level are gutting the federal government?
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u/codepossum 💣🐋💥 1d ago
The Preschool for All Tax is a marginal tax on high-income earners to fund preschool placements for all 3- and 4-year-olds in the county. The tax has brought in higher-than-expected revenues since its inception, and though the county has regularly insisted it is meeting, and even exceeding, its program targets, WW’s past reporting shows the implementation has been shaky.
The county says it funded over 2,200 preschool seats across 130 different facilities in school year 2023-24,through the program. The program aims to fund 11,000 seats total by 2030.
The tax is set to increase by .8% in 2027. The county commission last year voted to delay the tax increase by one year, as it was originally set to increase at the start of 2026.
doesn't seem like the sort of thing I'd want to repeal... don't we want to ensure that kids get access to as much school for as little money as possible? free education is like - a super important thing we need to pursue, especially with the current threat to the DoE, isn't it?
What's this guy's plan - to not put 2200 kids in preschool? I don't get it.
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u/MountScottRumpot Montavilla 1d ago
Yes, that’s the plan. He owns half of downtown, he doesn’t care about your kids.
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u/MountScottRumpot Montavilla 1d ago
Landlords wants to protect his profits. Fuck yo kids.
This is the guy who killed your favorite food cart pod.
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u/notPabst404 1d ago
How about HELL NO! The last thing we should be doing is defunding education when faced with a hostile federal government that has already been defunding education themselves. These wealthy assholes are so out of touch.
We need to merge universal pre-k into a state level, public program that covers every Oregon child.
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u/Roninspoon 1d ago
I don’t give two shits what a rich asshole thinks about city or county government. If Greg Goodman is so passionate about Portland, and funding its services, then he shouldn’t be whining about 0.08% tax increase.
I’d vote for a ballot measure to tax rich shitheads like this more.
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u/Marxian_factotum N 1d ago
Here we have another example of how the wealthy (oligarchs) routinely use their privilege to "push" what is supposed to be "one person, one vote" to a system where the wealthy routinely get their way no matter what.
And once again we have all this [i.e. rich white dudes scheming to lower their taxes by screwing children out of preschool] normalized, reported completely uncritically, by Willamette Week, another mouthpiece of the Portland Business Alliance, the money behind what was People for Portland, and the hyperviolent Portland Police Bureau . . . and then re-inscribed on reddit, whose unofficial motto is, "Won't someone address the plight of the poor landlords?"
You'd think that at the very moment when we're living in the midst of a coup in which the Nazi-saluting richest guy in the world is shredding the vestiges of what used to be American civilization, our local "moguls" might get called out on their Dr. Evil schemes. You might think that, but you'd underestimate the subservience of what passes for the press here in Portland.
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u/grantspdx Buckman 1d ago
Few people would consider the Willamette Week to be a right-wing, business-centric news bulwark.
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u/KevinMango 16h ago
Just earlier this week Nigel Jaquiss ran a piece advocating for repealing prevailing wage requirements for state funded housing projects, so undercutting unionized trades.
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u/demonsquidgod 1d ago
$44,000 for a poll that only goes to 600 people? 600 people doesn't seem like enough to properly gauge public attitudes toward anything, and that seems like an absurd price tag for such a useless poll
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u/nfjcbxudnx Powellhurst-Gilbert 1d ago
It could be that they'll try to get 600 responses. Response rates are <10% these days so they would probably be making like 10k attempts to get those 600 responses. Not arguing with you, seems like a waste of time/money to me.
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u/MountScottRumpot Montavilla 1d ago
600 people is nearly twice as many people as needed, if your sample is truly representative and truly random. Polling is weird.
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u/wubrotherno1 1d ago
Dumb people do not ask questions, and rely on politicians and the government. If they didn’t need either how could those same entities control them?
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u/ocast03 1d ago
PFA should have been at the state level not incompetent MC.