r/Professors 3d ago

Rants / Vents “Are we like...doing anything important today?”

Stay or go student, but stop asking me every damn day if you can walk without missing anything.

It’s not about an emergency. It’s some goofy attitude that I have to convince you that every single second is worth your time or you will dramatically leave the room.

I over prepared for class today, and for this week.

Please feel free to leave. I am so tired of people asking me at the beginning of class if they really need to be here. You don’t have to be anywhere.

I would have never interrogated my professors like this. “Justify this class or I shall leave immediately!” Get OUT.

535 Upvotes

74 comments sorted by

355

u/FlatMolasses4755 3d ago

Always irritating. I now address something similar during the first week:

If you miss class, don't ask me if you missed anything important. Do you think I'm up here dedicating my short time on this planet to unimportant things?

Here's one that's new, though: In discussions with students about late work, I hear, "This isn't my only class, you know."

Yeah, ME EITHER, BRO.

99

u/WineBoggling 2d ago

So many of them really don't see any intrinsic value in anything they do with us. In an analogy to physical effort, very few of them see the classroom like people with athletic ambitions see the gym. They see it the way energy-conserving animals see unnecessary movement in the wild: at every turn, what's the smallest amount of energy I can expend and still survive? They dream of a world where they can attend only on days when mandatory graded activities happen or when we hand out the one weird trick that lets them effortlessly pass the final exam, and just skip every other day.

26

u/bluegilled 2d ago

That's a good observation that highlights a fundamental issue in higher ed. Many students don't see the value in much of what they do.

It's alarming that even college freshmen with 13 years of schooling behind them seemingly haven't learned about the value of education. But we've got to be a little humble and ask if it's truly all their fault, or if we, the whole K-12 + college educational system, has either failed to convince them of the value of much of what we do, or whether we actually lack some of the value we tell them we have.

We ride the coattails of the credential we offer. Take these classes for four years and you'll get a degree that promises certain future life outcomes. They value the degree. Often, they don't value the classes, the subjects, the knowledge or the instructors. Why? Are they all just immature, unfocused, short-sighted and ignorant? Or are they perhaps on to something? Might their judgement as to the value of what we offer be based on something rational? Maybe, maybe not, but we should at least consider that possibility given students' behavior.

Thought experiment... if we detach the classes we teach from the credential they seek, what would our enrollment be? How many young (or older) adults would sign up for our POLSCI 101 or MTH 125 or ANTH 322 class of their free will, absent any credential, just for the knowledge and experience, at our institution's credit hour pricing? Would we be able to fill our classrooms with people freely paying, depending on institution, CC to fancy private, $400 - $8000 for our semester of teaching? I'm afraid the outcome for many of us would be empty classrooms.

But it's not just that people don't value education itself. There are billion dollar educational niches that don't lead to any credential, just acquired knowledge in an area in which people find value. The internet is replete with courses on business opportunities, nutrition, weigh loss, and relationships. People pay to learn foreign languages, programming languages, and how to build guitars, houses and companies. How to set up a self sufficient homestead, how to breed livestock, how to make artisan baked goods.

So people are willing to pay money and invest time in learning. Why is it such a struggle to get students to see the value of our courses absent the credential? Do we really want to know the answer?

43

u/DocVafli Position, Field, SCHOOL TYPE (Country) 2d ago

Here's one that's new, though: In discussions with students about late work, I hear, "This isn't my only class, you know."

Yeah, ME EITHER, BRO.

I've had so many just not understand that I teach more than just their class. Just shocked Pikachu face when I say "I can't meet with you then, I'm teaching another class" or get pissed when I'm not offering "the one class they need" because, god forbid, I teach other things that other people need to graduate. Don't even try to make them understand service and research commitments.

34

u/knitty83 2d ago

"I've had so many just not understand that I teach more than just their class."

Don't we all love the emails that go "I'm sick and can't come to class this week. Laura"?

Who are you, Laura? What class?!

19

u/DrMaybe74 Writing Instructor. CC, US. Ai sucks. 2d ago

"I'm in your English Comp class." Yes, that is what I teach.

16

u/I_Research_Dictators 2d ago

"Sorry to hear you're sick. All the assignments are posted, the policy on late work and missed in class work is in the syllabus, and one of your classmates can get you the notes.

Feel better soon,

Me"

6

u/knitty83 2d ago

Laura sent that email because she wanted me to excuse her absence in a class that requires attendance. It was the third week of term, and I was teaching 150 students that semester. She didn't want me to send her anything. When I replied that I needed to know which class she was in, she told me "your Tuesday class". Yeah. There are two of those. etc. ;)

5

u/I_Research_Dictators 2d ago

Yeah, I've had that, too. "Which GOVT 2305, I have five sections?" "The one that meets on Monday and Wednesday." "I have two of those. Why do we need to back and forth over something you are supposed to put in the subject of your first email?"

21

u/NectarineJaded598 2d ago

bruh, this isn’t even my only JOB

11

u/rrerjhkawefhwk Instructor (MA), Middle East 2d ago

I’ve definitely paused and told them point-blank that their question is very rude. They immediately backtrack and tell me that’s not what they meant—I do know that they mean! Their question was “did I miss anything graded? Will my GPA suffer because I didn’t attend class today?” and my response is class grades =\= class importance. Not everything in class is graded, but yes, every class is important.

3

u/Tommie-1215 1d ago

Yes that is the statement they make now. But my response includes "you are not my only class and you are one out of 200 students."

78

u/FloorSuper28 Instructor, Community College 3d ago

Yeah, I mean, it's all important to me, bro. It's my job and career. You should do what you think is best.

I've found they're usually fishing to see how severe a "penalty" will be in terms of grades, missed assignments, etc. But it's week 12. You know the daily routine and what you will be on the hook for.

134

u/mwobey Assistant Prof., Comp Sci, Community College 3d ago

Tom Wayman has a poem that deeply resonates with me on this:

Did I Miss Anything?

Nothing. When we realized you weren’t here
we sat with our hands folded on our desks
in silence, for the full two hours

   Everything. I gave an exam worth
   40 percent of the grade for this term
   and assigned some reading due today
   on which I’m about to hand out a quiz
   worth 50 percent

Nothing. None of the content of this course
has value or meaning
Take as many days off as you like:
any activities we undertake as a class
I assure you will not matter either to you or me
and are without purpose

   Everything. A few minutes after we began last time
   a shaft of light suddenly descended and an angel
   or other heavenly being appeared
   and revealed to us what each woman or man must do
   to attain divine wisdom in this life and
   the hereafter
   This is the last time the class will meet
   before we disperse to bring the good news to all people on earth.

Nothing. When you are not present
how could something significant occur?

   Everything. Contained in this classroom
   is a microcosm of human experience
   assembled for you to query and examine and ponder
   This is not the only place such an opportunity has been gathered

   but it was one place

   And you weren’t here

Now every time a student asks me this question, I cannot help but hear these responses echoing in my head.

27

u/manydills Asst Prof, Math, CC (US) 2d ago

I have this poem hanging in my office. I get to give a graduation speech next year and I desperately am trying to find a way to make this poem an appropriate inclusion for it.

33

u/loopsonflowers 2d ago

I'm not sure you can! It's a great poem for an audience of professors who experience the devastating humbling that comes with preparing lectures and coursework on a topics that we care deeply about and having our work (and offering) received by students the way it often is. I don't think it's a great poem to share in the context of an event intended for graduates and their families to mark and celebrate the enormous accomplishment of graduating college. Graduation isn't about our experience, it's about them.

11

u/manydills Asst Prof, Math, CC (US) 2d ago

Yeah, I can't square the fact that graduation is an event for the students who succeeded, and this would kinda feel like raining on their parade, so to speak. I agree with you.

5

u/mwobey Assistant Prof., Comp Sci, Community College 2d ago

I could perhaps see tying in the final stanza sans the ultimate line, and drawing a parallel to their journey through college and our into the real world:

Here at [this college] we assembled for you a microsm of human experience for you to ponder. We are not the only such place, but we were one. You were here, but now you must take those ponderings out into the wider world... something along that general theme.

57

u/omgkelwtf 3d ago

Student emailed me yesterday saying she was sick and asked "did we do anything today?" as if we've ever had a class wherein they did nothing.

I so badly wanted to reply, "nope, we just sat and looked at the wall for 75 minutes. It was worth 45% of your final grade."

26

u/DrMaybe74 Writing Instructor. CC, US. Ai sucks. 2d ago

"You missed the pizza and tequila."

4

u/Mr_Blah1 2d ago

Blackjack and hookers.

1

u/_Schadenfreudian 1d ago

I’ve been known to reply with this.

43

u/ellevaag professor, information systems, business, R2 (USA) 2d ago

I started my tenure track career at an Ivy and had an undergraduate student approach me after one of the first few classes. He said he was going to miss two weeks of school because he was helping his father open a hotel in some exotic location. I told him that he would be responsible for the content and assignments during that period and he said ‘Well if you cover anything important my friend will share their notes. I’m sure I’ll still get an A - this course isn’t difficult.’

I smiled and said ok - have a good trip.

It was quite satisfying when he earned a C and attempted to grade grub during office hours. He asked for extra credit and the ability to make up the work that he chose not to complete early in the semester when he was traveling.

Yes, I did say - ‘weren’t you confident in your ability to earn an A because the content wasn’t difficult and you had a friend who would help you…?’

I can’t believe I stayed there for 7 years. Semester after semester I had students like this.

62

u/Faewnosoul STEM Adjunct, CC, USA 3d ago

" Only what we do every time, try to take over the world."

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u/quantum-mechanic 2d ago

ok boomer

12

u/Faewnosoul STEM Adjunct, CC, USA 2d ago

No boomer gen- X er.its a line from pinky and the brain

27

u/zorandzam 3d ago

I’m considering making everyone actually meet several other students at the start of the term and exchange emails so they always have a buddy for this kind of thing and someone from whom to get notes later. It would have never occurred to me to ask this of a professor either before or after the fact.

18

u/word_nerd_913 NTT, English, USA 2d ago

I do this every semester. I don't know if they actually email their buddies, but. I've noticed I get fewer emails.

5

u/zorandzam 2d ago

Oh, nice.

24

u/Grouchyprofessor2003 2d ago

My new mantra I say to students. “I am happy when you are here and not mad when you are not. I do my job during class time, use this time as you see fit”

11

u/MarionberryConstant8 3d ago

If I had a nickel for every time I was asked this, I would have a &@$tload of nickels.

11

u/SnowblindAlbino Prof, SLAC 2d ago

I rarely get that anymore-- they just don't show up at all. The "will we be doing anything important on Tuesday" stuff was always annoying, since 1) everything is in the syllabus, and 2) if we weren't doing anything "important" why would I have class? But they don't really seem to care enough to even ask that anymore...just need a "me day" so they skip entirely.

What I do find, though, is that after they get a zero for some in-class group assignment we did they will write and ask for a makeup.

10

u/OldOmahaGuy 2d ago

My standard response is along the lines of "Do you see the barbed wire, machine gun nests, Rottweilers, and guards holding you in this classroom? Neither do I."

22

u/DerProfessor 2d ago

Absolutely call him on it.

Be nice: (there's no point to being a jerk.)

But if he asks you this, you could inquire (with a tone of genuine curiosity): "are you sure you want to be in college? Are you sure it's right for you? It's no problem if you don't: there are plenty of great trades you could learn and have a successful and fulfilling life... I just want to make sure you are where you should be. Because it sounds like you're not into what we have to offer here."

2

u/LittleMissWhiskey13 Professor CC 1d ago

Be nice, until its time to not be nice.

James Dalton, Roadhouse

9

u/Novel_Listen_854 2d ago

"No idea what you think is important. We will be on schedule. In the future, look at the calendar instead of wasting class time with silly questions."

8

u/l_galboo 2d ago

When I get really irritated at this question, I have been known to reply

"And I was wrong. There are stupid questions."

1

u/LittleMissWhiskey13 Professor CC 1d ago

There are no stupid questions. Just stupid people who ask questions.

7

u/rachelann10491 2d ago

I had a student dead-ass just not attend the first 7 weeks of class. Then, in week 8, apologize for missing "two weeks" due to an "emergency," and he hoped "he didn't miss anything important." Like, no, we saw you didn't attend, so we've been doing nothing but twiddling our thumbs every class for 7 weeks.

8

u/OkCarrot4164 2d ago

Gotta love that 8 to 2 magic math.

I just got an email from someone who missed two weeks and they fucking attached pictures of their vacation.

What is even going on. The self awareness is nonexistent.

7

u/rachelann10491 2d ago

Yeah, he tried to say he actually attended but then just showed up late. So I must have missed him. Then tried to tell me his “friends in the class” told him I didn’t take attendance, so I couldn’t possibly know whether he attended or not. This whole email exchange happened about, oh, a month after I sent him an email explicitly stating I was reporting him for “never attending” on the enrollment verification. Still cracks me up!

Edited to add: this was a writing course, heavily participation based, with a max of 15 students. So, it’s not as if he’s trying to get away with this in a 100+ person lecture.

3

u/rachelann10491 2d ago

But PHOTOS OF THEIR VACATION?!? What the actual fuck. That’s a new low.

6

u/jleonardbc 2d ago

"That depends. What's important to you?"

5

u/roydesoto51 2d ago

"Did you consider what we did yesterday important?"

4

u/hiImProfThrowaway 2d ago

"we were going to but once we realized you weren't going to be there we just put our heads down on our desks for the remainder of class"

4

u/nosainte 2d ago

I often joke and say no we never do anything important in class

3

u/rubyleigh TPT Faculty, Math, Community and Technical College, (USA) 2d ago

Them: Did I miss anything important?

Me: Yes

4

u/maryschino 2d ago

Well, you do pay me to teach you; I get paid whether or not you’re here.

3

u/Mmmc_17 2d ago

I throw them back the “are we? Have you read the syllabus?”

3

u/thiosk 2d ago

"i don't think we'll be discussing anything that will help you in the long run, no"

8

u/IkeRoberts Prof, Science, R1 (USA) 3d ago

The answer depends of course on why they are taking the class. It is worth asking. The answer may provide an effective teachable moment. 

3

u/mst3k_42 2d ago

Often because it is a requirement.

7

u/IkeRoberts Prof, Science, R1 (USA) 2d ago

Why is it a requirement?

Answering that question should involve having the student explain why their degree program finds this course important. If they want that degree, they need to know the stuff in this course.

6

u/mst3k_42 2d ago

Because even majors in a completely different field of study require other courses to hopefully broaden their understanding and experiences. But students don’t see it that way. Case in point: a friend of mine in undergrad was a computer engineering major but that required some courses in the social sciences. So he took intro psychology, having zero interest in psychology. He never went to class and only showed up for exams.

6

u/IkeRoberts Prof, Science, R1 (USA) 2d ago

That is the real conversation to have. That curriculum was not developed to collect extra tuition, it was developed for a specific purpose. Do they want the education that they signed up for, the education that is needed for them to succeed?

9

u/mst3k_42 2d ago

Honestly, especially for the engineering majors who I knew in undergrad, they viewed their degree as an annoyance, an obstacle to getting the job they ultimately wanted. So classes designed to round out their education were seen as especially worthless.

I mean, I had to take musical appreciation, which really meant learning more about classical music than I ever wanted to, so I wasn’t exactly enthusiastic, but I still went to class every day. But I also think that those of us who willingly stayed in school longer and got PhDs are weirdos anyway.

4

u/IkeRoberts Prof, Science, R1 (USA) 2d ago

Indeed, this dullness is sometimes more pronounced with engineering majors. And the dullness is tough to comprehend for the weirdly curious people who get PhDs.

The conversation often needs to have a more practical and mechanistic angle. But it can still be done. It's like in mechanical engineering--why do I need a strut over there, that's not where the force is? ...until the conditions change... the original engineers actually knew what they were doing.

Engaging in that conversation about the bigger picture can be a real gift.

2

u/NectarineJaded598 2d ago

I hate that one… “Did I miss anything important?” I never know how to respond!

2

u/Few_Draft_2938 2d ago

Gonna be so for real with you, but I would literally tell my student that. "You're free to stay or leave. I won't try to convince you of anything. If you find this valuable, then stay. But remember this conversation if you feel like asking again."

2

u/Pale_Luck_3720 2d ago

Last week, student contacted me and told me he wouldn't be in class this week because it's a celebration of the end of fasting and he and his family would be celebrating with relatives halfway across the country.

Early this week, the story changed. Now he would miss because he and his wife got very I'll. He showed up for the second class of the week. For how sick he told me he was, he made a miraculous recovery.

On the first day of class, I tell them that they know the university attendance rules. The class is important enough for me to be here, so I hope it's important enough for them to be here.

2

u/AlienTerrain2020 2d ago

And then they complain when there's a test

2

u/vanillastardew Assistant Professor, Sociology 2d ago

My pet peeve is receiving emails saying "I'm gonna miss class, let me know if I miss anything important." Oh yeah sorry you're right, it's all bullshit unless otherwise stated. My bad!

Also, why would it be on me to let you know? Look at the syllabus, the modules, and make sure you have your shit together? Missing one day won't hurt you but if you're chronically absent you have bigger problems than I can solve.

2

u/rdchat 2d ago

"Since you asked, now we are." Bwahaha.

3

u/roydesoto51 2d ago

"Did you consider what we did yesterday important?"

2

u/ReligionProf 2d ago

In case you don’t know the poem “Did I Miss Anything?” https://www.tomwayman.com/did-i-miss-anything/

1

u/killerwithasharpie 2d ago

I used to give a speech about the development of the idea of free Will. Even I got tired of it.

1

u/mathemorpheus 2d ago

standard answer is always no

1

u/SierraMountainMom Professor, interim chair, special ed, R1 (western US) 2d ago

Did I miss anything important? No, luckily you missed the class where I spend 3 hours talking about belly button lint.

1

u/MulderFoxx Adjunct, USA 1d ago

We do in class quizzes as attendance. It's around 10% of the total grade. Student emails me last year saying they tore a ligament in their foot in late January and wants those quizzes excused. Email received date is early April.

Do you have doctor note that says you were confined to bed for 3 months? No?

No, these grades will not be excused.

1

u/Ok-Brilliant-9095 Adjunct, Humanities, CC (USA) 1d ago

I only allow this on pre-scheduled in-class work days for projects. I prefer if they check-in with me by coming in to class rather than sending an email. Some of them have jobs and my classes are unfortunately at times right before evening shifts start. These are also usually students that DO the work, so that’s another factor. If they leave mid-class on lecture days, they lose participation points. I know it’s lax, but I don’t teach STEM 🤷‍♀️

1

u/No_Intention_3565 1d ago

If this students asks you this every time - exactly what is your response??

Because I would greenlight the exit each and every time. "You are paying for this class - whether you attend or not has nothing to do with me. Stay. Go. Shrug....."

1

u/Less-Faithlessness76 TA, Humanities, University (Canada) 23h ago

My colleague decided to try weekly quizzes in lecture for her first-year history survey course. They access the quiz with a code she gives them at the beginning of lecture. They get ten minutes during the break to answer the single question for the week. Each question is worth 1% of their total grade, and the answer is obvious if the student had attended the prior week's lecture.

Example:
"What type of animal pelt was used to make top hats in the nineteenth century (list only one)?"

The prior week's lecture title? "The fur trade in colonial Canada".

Her attendance has never been better, and most at least try to pay attention, all for 1%. They are all in for the grades, but they have no idea how to learn.

1

u/WingbashDefender Assistant Professor, R2, MidAtlantic 20h ago

I had one similar today! Had to come post. Tomorrow’s class is remote because students will be doing collaborative work and the class space doesn’t work for it, and a student asked me if it was important and had to participate or if she could just listen in via zoom, since she would be coming to campus later than normal (aka she was going to drive in during my class so she can come to campus later than normal). I didn’t respond.