Getting yourself deliberately arrested is not something you should be doing lightly. Not just anyone can or should be a martyr, and existing and thriving in this world is its own radical act

[u/SiteRelEnby]

Content warnings: General USpol, criminalisation of trans people, what happens to trans woman in prison (spoiler tagged)

You've probably read by now about Marcy Rheintgen, the trans woman who was arrested for going into a public toilet in Florida (EITM link, local news link from the journalist who was there at the time).

It really bothers me how many people have been clapping for her, comparing her to Rosa Parks, and completely ignoring that what she was doing wasn't even performative, it was just nonsensical.

She wrote to the politicians beforehand and provided them with evidence of her intent to commit a crime. The police who were there gave her multiple opportunities to not get arrested. It really feels like she wanted to be arrested. Did she think she would just be quietly escorted outside and released? I don't even know any more. Instead, she's going to face horrendous consequences that will cause her lifelong trauma, and nothing will be accomplished for it. It's unconstitutional, yes, but the courts are packed with fascists at every level, backed up by fascists in all three branchees of government and both parties.

To quote from the newspaper, she identifies as a "moderate conservative" too, and clearly had not prepared herself mentally or legally in any way for arrest.

Rheintgen, who said she’s a moderate conservative

She said she regrets her experience and didn’t think she’d actually be arrested; now back at school, she said she has to find a way to fly back to Florida for further hearings. “Everything that is politics seems very abstract and philosophical from far away,” Rheintgen said. “This is the first time it’s really affected me. I got arrested and I got sent to jail because of Gov. (Ron) DeSantis’ policies — like that’s crazy, that’s crazy!"

To me, this reads as nothing more than that she wanted to prove that Florida wouldn't really arrest a trans woman for going into a public toilet, and she was surprised when she met the consequences of her actions. She wasn't expecting to be punished. Since she identifies as a christian conservative, most likely she was seeking to prove that the republicans wouldn't really keep their word on taking away our civil rights. This is an immense expression of privilege, that shows a complete lack of understanding of the struggle of trans people as a whole, and in particular of the intersectional aspects that for so many of us without her privilege, we wouldn't even get the publicity she is getting.

These days, the fascists have pushed the Overton Window so far to the right that a "moderate conservative" means someone who 'only' supports bathroom bans and youth care bans, and just doesn't want to outright commit genocide against us.

I am still upset at people who act like this is somehow going to change anything. She's just going to get lifelong trauma. I do feel terrible for what she's about to experience, even with her politics. I'll fight for her anyway, and I genuinely hope the experience and the loss of her privilege cures her of her conservatism, but WE SHOULD NOT BE GIVING THE FASCISTS AMMUNITION. I had the inspiration to write this post while I was sitting there doomscrolling, just waiting for the "VIOLENT MAN INVADES WOMEN'S TOILETS" headline shit we all 100% know is being prepared for the usual media sewers to spew, probably as you read this post if not already out there by that time.

The Rosa Parks comparison makes no sense. Rosa Parks was an active NAACP member and already a long time activist. She had a whole support network, she was politically informed, she knew what she was doing, and she was prepared for the consequences.

Deliberately getting yourself arrested, for the vast majority of people, is stupid. It doesn't work. People are clinging onto tactics that became out of date over 20 years ago. The entire US is geared up for mass incarceration. That was a direct consequence of the Civil Rights Movement, enhanced by the later Wars on Drugs/Terror. People who stick to this mentality of "if we all get ourselves arrested we can change things, somehow" are being exactly like the Democrats - always trying to fight the same way as their last success, and not realising that things have moved on. The infrastructure is in place to mass arrest hundreds of thousands of people, and the people running it would have no problem scaling that to millions.

Then there's the fact that now we have to defend people doing stuff like this. By all means, I will, even if I personally think what they did was stupid, but I've spoken to people at several well known trans legal charities, and I know how thinly they are stretched, how much they are doing with how little, and the truth is that if people are out there getting arrested without a plan, it takes away from the resources that are out there fighting for us in ways that actually make a difference. If money from a trans legal charity is now going to go to her defence, that takes it away from defending trans women already in prison. I write to trans people in prison, I donate to trans legal aid charities, and I am very pissed off that things like this happen that were completely avoidable and just divide our resources and unnecessarily create more people to look out for.

A few people getting arrested who are well positioned to change things via action in the courts can be an effective political tactic, yes. That takes people who are prepared for what's about to happen to them, who have a strong support system, incredible mental fortitude, and the right background and life story to be politically palatable. If she wanted to use her privilege to effect social change and get herself arrested in a more productive way, she could probably have found a way to do. That would have involved actually understanding the reality that so many of us face, and talking to people with a history of that kind of activism, not just randomly trying it on for a bit then being thrown into a world of torture she was unprepared for.

By all means, I'm not the kind of activist who is in a position to do that and readily admit that - due to my personal circumstances, the activism I do is mostly behind the scenes, with the odd bit of personal soapboxing or attempt to draw attention to someone the media is unlikely to cover, and I respect those that can put their very lives on the line in a way I personally can't, but what's important is that we choose when that sort of thing is necessary, and pick battles that we can actually win.

I bet that Marcy didn't ever fear getting arrested, because that just wasn't a possibility that could occur to her in her bubble that she inhabited. Meanwhile, most trans people across the country, me included, are scared of being sent to a concentration camp, and there is literally nothing on Earth that could convince me to set foot in Florida for any reason.

I saw one person on Reddit say that we should all go topless in red states as a 'protest'. I almost reported the comment as an obvious troll, but I don't even know if they are, given the very events we were in the comments about. A lot of people just need a big reality check about the stakes here. This isn't a fucking game, this is people's lives.

I do genuinely feel for her now, for what she's going to experience. I think a lot of us try to avoid talking about it, to avoid thinking about it, and there are good reasons for that, and I understand how sensitive these topics are so I will spoilertag it, but we need to remember what the stakes are. Consider this your content warning for everything that you almost certainly already know happens to trans women in prison.

She will be taken off her HRT, her head will be shaved, she will be forced to dress as a man (including not having access to a bra), and be addressed as a man. The police report linked in the article deadnames her even though it appears her name was legally changed, so she's probably going to be consistently deadnamed too. She will be either placed in a prison with dangerous men, where the reported rate of sexual assault for us is 70%, or she is going to end up in solitary confinement for weeks on end, something widely recognised as torture, or, even worse, both in one sentence.

She does not deserve this. I think she was unbelievably naive in her actions, and she clearly had not prepared herself for being arrested in any way, mentally, socially, or legally. Sure, there are some trans people who are prepared for such an ordeal, and they should be respected and looked up to for their willingness to put their entire selves at risk, but idiotic stunts like this achieve nothing but another statistic, and more headlines in the mainstream media about how terrible we are.

She probably didn't understand what's about to happen to her, she admitted she didn't talk to anyone about this. She is going to get an example made of her. The government does not care, and wil love making an example out of her. Have you seen the video of the people arrested and sent to El Salvador? El Salvador has already said that it would take US citizens. We are facing the threat of literal concentration camps, and stunts like this do nothing to fight that. Centrists who unironically liked Harris do not care.

To head off the inevitable comments I already know will be coming in: In the comments on the Reddit threads about this situation, I had a few people go all condescending to me like I don't understand trans activism, or I'm not fighting for us, or we should support anyone who gets us any publicity no matter how bad. I'm radically, politically queer (and a former liberal myself who was radicalised by everything going on), but I'm not stupid, and I'm not going to pointlessly throw my life away, and the implication we should all be cheering on pointless stunts like this one really annoyed me. Again, I really feel for her, and even after getting upset at the shortsightedness of what she did, the thought of what's about to happen to her still makes me cry. I'm sure there are nightmares about it coming, and they won't be the first or last set of ones I have, and ultimately I'll fight for her as hard as I do for every other trans person, because that's the activism I can do, and I'd rather make a difference in a way I am capable of than throw my life away for 5 seconds of bad publicity. When our entire existence is on the edge of being illegal, just living your life as a trans person is a revolutionary act. We all want to be the fucking hero, but our existence is a movement bigger than any of us, and I have no intention of going out in a blaze of glory if I can help it.

EDIT: I have had a few people suggest the whole "unprepared sheltered christian conservative" thing is just an act, and that a conventionally-attractive white woman being brutalised is what it will take to get the mainstream interested in our rights. I do want to be fair, I don't want to come across as an asshole, so if she is in fact fully aware of what could happen and playing 7D chess then I absolutely respect that, and will personally apologise to her and make a donation to a trans charity of her choice. I hope that quietens some of the more vocal criticism I've received because I do want this to be a genuine discussion. I still do think that it's not something the average random trans Redditor should be doing without at the very least having a serious plan for it and the appropriate mental resilience, something I 100% admit that I personally lack, detransition would be literally worse than death for me, and I respect those who are willing to risk it.

EDIT 2: I'm really conflicted about it now. I started off feeling that it was pointless self-sacrifice and conservative headline fodder, but a few people have made some good points to me. I'm a former liberal/centrist myself, I know we don't all instantly gravitate to what's good in the world. I am scared that if more trans people do it, it just makes more of an excuse to round us all up and put us in camps. Who knows, maybe some fucking jealousy there too, I wish I looked as good as she does, and losing my identity like she is risking would be worse than death for me. Maybe that says more about me than about her, and I'm not afraid to admit it because I've not been doing OK recently. I'm not done with this subject but I think I need to take a step back and reflect on my own actions here.

[u/NextEstablishment334]

I understand all your difficult feelings. I’m also glad you’re taking a step back to reflect. It takes all of us, and we all have different strengths and resources to bring to the table. It’s fine if you would not do what she did. No one is asking you to do what she did. You have other things to bring to the table. Plus, finding something that aligns with what you’ve already got going for you will help you sustain for the long haul.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks I’ve noticed for lefties is waiting for the perfect plan, the perfect thing to say, the perfect coalition. Perfection is the enemy of action. Having the bravery to try something and make mistakes is invaluable for our personal and collective liberation, even if at times it is costly in other ways. Sounds like she was fully aware of the risks. Sometimes there is no way to stand up for something without risk. You are blaming her for not having a “better” strategy, but we are talking about a young trans girl in a hostile state. I’m going to assume that her access to local community and organizing may be limited. But we all can find ways to give that community to her, and in a way that does not involve the scarcity mindset of “this is taking away resources from other trans people.” In fact, this is a huge opportunity to breathe life and resources into our sphere, and hers.

I want to hug you so badly because I feel the fear you feel, and every single day I have to intentionally meet these fears with hope. I know that struggle. What troubles me is that some of your thoughts about her sound like you are letting your fear win. Don’t let these assholes choke out your hope. It happens to the best of us, but don’t become a cop or your own jailer. Also, don’t let them rob you of the focus on the law being wrong, as tempting as it is to focus on the fear they stoke. So yeah, I think framing what she did as “pointless” and “stupid” is a disempowering mindset I hope you can move away from. To forge a path out, someone has to start digging somewhere. We can choose to dig with them, or we can choose to let ourselves all be buried further. This doesn’t have to be “picking a battle we didn’t win.” This is an opportunity to build, to offer reinforcements and resources, to ultimately make the digging a little easier on all of us. What I’d love to see is cis activists (and trans ppl if they feel safe), doing what she did en masse in solidarity, or something similar. But, spoiler, there’s also so many ways to build upon this that also don’t involve risking jail.

Fascism thrives on isolation, blame, paralysis, and fear. Collective action, empathy, hope, and mutual support are remedies to that. Cheers, sib 🏳️‍⚧️

[u/SiteRelEnby → u/NextEstablishment334]

Thanks 😭

[u/SiteRelEnby]

I'm really conflicted about it now. I started off feeling that it was pointless self-sacrifice and conservative headline fodder, but a few people have made some good points to me. I'm a former liberal/centrist myself, I know we don't all instantly gravitate to what's good in the world. I am scared that if more trans people do it, it just makes more of an excuse to round us all up and put us in camps. Who knows, maybe some fucking jealousy there too, I wish I looked as good as she does, and losing my identity like she is risking would be worse than death for me. Maybe that says more about me than about her, and I'm not afraid to admit it because I've not been doing OK recently. I'm not done with this subject but I think I need to take a step back and reflect on my own actions here.

[u/AceofToons → u/SiteRelEnby]

After reading your whole post and update. I still think if nothing else you are absolutely more right than not.

I am in Canada. Watching what's happening in the US is fucking wild. I wouldn't travel there.

Even if I was still perceived as a straight white man. I wouldn't risk it, I am not a citizen, regardless of my skin colour; hell they are even deporting legal citizens.

But additionally, they truly believe that non citizens do not deserve due process

People are accused of and charged with things they didn't do all the time

Even with due process innocent people are convicted and locked up all the time

What she did is dangerous even if she's somehow more prepared for the reality than it seems. This is legitimately a scary decision. Additionally, it's scary that it could open the door for more abuse of trans people, especially with everything else going on.

This isn't some tipping point. As much as I wish it was.

(sorry, I realized my wording regarding them deporting people is unclear, my point with that was that this stuff is already happening to one of the groups they villainized. Trans people are absolutely next in line)

[u/SiteRelEnby → u/AceofToons]

Yup. Ultimately, I think what she did was a bad idea and I'm stunned she didn't legally or mentally prepare herself for the possibility of what could happen, but I didn't want to actually condemn her personally for it, a lot of people did start leaning into personal attacks on her which I didn't like, and ultimately, what's done is done, and what matters now is that there's a trans woman who needs our community's support.

I'm just scared of copycat stunts, I guess, if that ends up making red states crack down harder on trans people just living their lives.

[u/aLittleMinxy → u/SiteRelEnby]

I mean, just a couple years ago I was considering 1st amendment auditing and standing up for our right to exist via that. Now I'd rather (hopefully) quietly use the 2nd. Before both of those I wanted to put together a physical refuge but nobody saw what I meant by it back then - people weren't even done fighting against gay rights, trans people were relatively underground. I miss it, but I can't say I didn't see it coming - just not this overtly and violently.

Not to say I'm a constitutionalist or a sovereign citizen, I'm just an anarchist rules lawyer + historian. Edit to add: this is what ye olde Germany started with and it does not instill confidence in our escaping the cycle just yet.

[u/SiteRelEnby → u/aLittleMinxy]

The desire to build a trans refuge is strong at the moment...

[u/DaphneTheGoodGirl]

Honestly I think people are giving her too much crap. She clearly knew what would happen to her and that’s kinda the point of nonviolent action. The fact that the state of Florida is willing to do this to someone so clearly young and innocent just shows that they’re monsters plain and simple. I also haven’t seen conservative media covering this at all because… there’s really not a good way for them to spin the story. She’s clearly a woman, if the police hadn’t known she was coming she probably wouldn’t have been arrested. The fact that she’s a conservative just makes things better because she’s not an “evil liberal” trying to prove a point. She’s just a good conservative Christian girl who tried to use the bathroom. More than anything I feel inspired by her bravery that she actually tried to do something here, and I’d say she was at least somewhat effective since national media is now covering her case. Was she a little dumb for doing this alone? Yeah. Is she a little young and naive? Also yeah. But she still tried and I commend her for actually doing something.

What’s going to be done to her is awful but it’s a version of what’s going to happen to all of us eventually if this administration gets its way. If Marcy can somehow draw public attention and sympathy for us, then I’d say we should take all the help we can get. I can more see the average cis grandma getting upset about “what they’re doing to that poor girl in Florida” than about the trans folks already in prison, or about the numerous policies that effect us. Her actions while they may have been brazen or uninformed, have given a face and identity to the real harm that these policies cause.

[u/SiteRelEnby → u/DaphneTheGoodGirl]

Yeah, did you read my edits?

I still think it wasn't a sensible thing to do and she was clearly still unprepared for it, but I also feel like I judged her way too harshly on a personal level.

What's important is that there's a trans woman who needs our support and I plan to be there for her.

[u/xDangerKittyx]

Try and remember we are in the same community. Yes, she is also human and, as such, will definitely make mistakes. We listen, and we don't judge (Paradox of Tolerance, of course). I agree with the point you're making. I also agree that this may be a tactical strike, i.e., Nellie Bly. Not knowing puts my ADHD brain in Bad Thought Overdrive, so I can understand the fear because that is a human reaction. Make a little space for her, and try to be gentle with yourself, too. Rest is an act of rebellion.

[u/SiteRelEnby → u/xDangerKittyx]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Ultimately what's done is done, and what matters now is that there's a trans woman who needs support.

[u/aLittleMinxy → u/xDangerKittyx]

It's a classic "back the blue until it happens to you" instance imo. At most I can only hope it radicalizes her.

[u/Tough_Tangerine7278]

This is a lot of paragraphs which I THINK is summed up as “people need to lay low and go back in the closet”. I can’t read all that.

Look, different people have different roles. She did what she thought she had to do. You may have a different path. Ranting about her isn’t necessarily gonna help anyone. You’re scared, I feel bad for you, but just keep quiet and stay in your lane if you can’t support her. At the end of the day, she probably helped some, maybe inflamed the bigots into retaliation idk, we can’t know that. And we can’t control the actions of bigots. Don’t blame some innocent woman because they may turn violent.

Reminds me of the stories of the old school Prides, before Stonewall. They wanted to integrate quietly and not cause waves. They chased off the trans folks. They wore somber black clothes and marched quietly to simp to The Man: Look at us. We are the “good ones”. I don’t think they really changed minds and hearts though. They just showed they were willing to take the bigotry with heads bowed.

[u/SiteRelEnby → u/Tough_Tangerine7278]

This is a lot of paragraphs which I THINK is summed up as “people need to lay low and go back in the closet”. I can’t read all that.

You're wrong.

I think it was badly thought out. I did reconsider a bit of my personal criticism, but I do think that for most of us, what she's about to go through is not something that we should all be wanting to do. I'm also fucking terrified that as a trans woman stuck in a red state, this is going to generate more headlines to demonise us, and make my own life worse if people are looking for trans people now. Every single time I have to go outside, I'm scared that it will be the day my luck runs out.

[u/hi_i_am_J]

i generally agree with this, i am a trans woman in a pretty solid red state and i dont think people should be encouraged to risk state violence against themselves.

GOP doesn't give a shit, they are doing to do what they want. people should be focused more on building connections in their communities and looking out for each other than media stunts.