r/ScienceBasedParenting • u/D1_CHASER • 20h ago

Question - Research required Thirdhand Smoke

First off I feel really worried because I’ve probably exposed my baby to thirdhand smoke because I’ve never heard of it before. My baby is now two weeks old and it’s only the past week that I’m worried about. My dad stayed at my house for a good bit of time the past week vaping in the house and using a weed pen. A few times he vaped while holding her but blowing away from her face. Obviously this is secondhand smoke so all vaping in the same room as the baby is gonna be stopped period. I too have smoked weed outside (nothing that makes me too impaired). I’m worried because neither one of us changed clothes or anything like that after smoking or vaping. I’m really worried about any harm this could have caused, she is growing fine and had great vitals at her appointment yesterday. Also I want to be safe in the future, is vaping in the house okay at all? Should I get an air purifier? Am I okay if I just keep a hoodie outside and wear it to smoke then wash my hands? I just really want to make sure no harm was done and I’m aware quitting is the safest option but I want to figure out a safe routine if family or I want to step outside and smoke.

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u/Geschirrspulmaschine 19h ago

You need to quit.

If you're serious about the health of your child but unable to quit, you need to switch to smokeless products like nicotine lozenges or gum.

That said, nicotine is passed in breastmilk from mother to child and nicotine is a stimulant. Research shows that it affects infant sleep and leads to a higher likelihood of nicotine dependency later in life.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2277470/

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u/Mama_Co 18h ago

Also, don't let anyone vape or smoke right next to your daughter... Or in the house at all. You cannot get rid of secondhand smoke by opening windows or using air purifiers.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/secondhand-smoke/home.html

I didn't let anyone who smoked be around my son unless they showered and changed clothes beforehand. This included my brother, grandmother, and uncle who all wanted to meet him. It's your responsibility to protect your child.

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u/D1_CHASER 17h ago

I’m not really seeing a lot of research on thirdhand smoke with vaping or weed when used only outside. Every study seems to be using tobacco which I’m sure sticks on more stuff than weed or vapor. I’ll just quit to be safe but it’s weird I’ve never heard of thirdhand smoking before. I know several parents who vape in the same house as their family even if it’s in a closet or some shit. Also is there any study on the effectiveness of reducing thirdhand smoke with things such as showering, smoking coat, washing face, brushing teeth etc?

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u/That_Aul_Bhean 17h ago

which I’m sure sticks on more stuff than weed or vapor.

Source?

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u/D1_CHASER 16h ago

Was more of an assumption, that is why I asked for studies but here’s what I could find

Vapes: A study published in Preventive Medicine Reports found that in homes of tobacco cigarette smokers, nicotine levels on surfaces were substantially higher than in homes of e-cigarette users. Specifically, nicotine concentrations averaged 1,303±2,676 μg/m² in smokers’ homes, compared to 7.7±17.2 μg/m² in e-cigarette users’ homes, indicating that tobacco smoke contributes to a much greater accumulation of surface nicotine residue. 

Cannabis Smoke Residue: • Research has shown that cannabis smoke can also deposit residues on indoor surfaces. A study published in Forensic Science International demonstrated that surfaces exposed to cannabis vapor tested positive for THC, the psychoactive component of cannabis, at quantifiable levels ranging from 348 to 4,882 ng/m². However, the extent of residue from cannabis smoke is generally less than that from tobacco smoke.

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u/HeinousAnus69420 16h ago edited 16h ago

I think you might have some tunnel vision on the psychoactive component.

While trace amounts of nicotine or thc are not going to be great, I would be more worried about the general combustion residue (or vape residue).

We're still finding out how bad vaping is relative to smoking, for both weed and nicotine, but it *definitely * leaves a lot of residue.

Peruse the various PC building subreddits and search for "vape reside". It's pretty jarring to see how gummed up the hardware gets just being in the same room as people who vape.

Is switching mostly to edibles and tinctures an option? In addition to feeling healthier (i used to smoke, vape, dab, etc a lot), you won't have the anxiety around "o jeez, is there drug residue I'm getting on my baby".

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u/D1_CHASER 15h ago

Yea I’m either going to quit or swap to edibles but a big focus was other family members who do these things and proper precautions for them

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u/Mama_Co 15h ago

This, like why not just do anything other than vape or smoke? If they need a buzz that badly, just eat it and not risk their baby's health. They answered their own question on the residue and then think that it's okay to have it in their home and on them without even looking at the issues with vaping. I don't understand.

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u/D1_CHASER 15h ago

Well if you read my whole question it wasn’t all about just me “needing a buzz that bad” it was also about exposure from outside sources and family. And saying I’m not looking at the issues when that’s the whole fucking reason I posted this is wild.

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u/Mama_Co 16h ago

Does it really matter if it's less?? Personally, I would want 0 exposure. There is residue from smoking and vaping, end of the story. Your baby should not be anywhere that people have smoked or vaped. Also, there are other issues with vaping.

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u/Mama_Co 16h ago edited 16h ago

Here is a study on secondhand cannabis smoke through exposure directly in the home.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2829482

Children in homes where parents smoked cannabis had detectable THC in their urine.

"As young children spend most of their time at home, reducing in-home cannabis smoking could substantially reduce their exposure to the toxic and carcinogenic chemicals found in cannabis smoke."

Also, I'm not sure why you would assume tobacco sticks on things more than weed. There is no logical reason why that would be. Also, you do not need to smell either the tobacco or the weed for the dangerous chemicals to be present.

There are less studies in general on weed use because it's not legal in most states and it hasn't been legal that long in Canada. Therefore, it's difficult to study it and its effects, especially long-term, on children. We know that it is toxic and carcinogenic. There are enough studies on the effects of tobacco use on children through secondhand and thirdhand exposure that you should take the same precautions as you would with tobacco exposure as with weed exposure.

Edit to add: washing up and using different clothes may help, but smoke really stays in your hair as well. It's nearly impossible to remove all the cannabis off of yourself.

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u/D1_CHASER 16h ago

Yes I agree with the secondhand smoke precautions no doubt, but I do think it’s logical to assume tobacco sticks more than weed when referring to outside use. Nicotine is super sticky and acts like a sponge bringing other chemicals with it such as tar, formaldehyde, PAHs. Weed is used less frequently and produces less smoke. And vaping weed uses aerosol not smoke which produces less solid particles as well as less tar.

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u/Mama_Co 15h ago

Vaping has its own issues... Are you just trying to convince yourself that it's okay to vape? Like the effects are clear. Even if you're right and vaping weed is less bad than smoking tobacco, does that suddenly make it okay? It's not like if something is less bad than another option, then the less bad option is suddenly good.

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u/D1_CHASER 15h ago

I’m not trying to convince myself of anything, I am simply stating that using a study from thirdhand smoke with tobacco isn’t the same as vaping. I want to make the best decision based on the different factors such as when family who vapes holds the baby. Do I cut them off completely? Is it okay for them to shower then hold baby if they smoked at their house? Everything isn’t black or white and your baby can’t live in a bubble. For example I’m sure you give your baby plastic items which then gives them microplastics. Sure it would be safer to stay inside and no contact from anyone, but you still take the risk of seeing other people by ensuring they aren’t sick or ill (hopefully) but that’s still not “ZERO EXPOSURE”.

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u/Mama_Co 15h ago

From the current studies on both cannabis and tobacco exposure, then personally, I would never bring my child to a house that is smoked or vaped in. The study I provided showed that children who live in houses where parents smoke weed are exposed.

It is impossible to eliminate all exposure to thirdhand smoke of both cannabis and tobacco, think of stores, restaurants, etc. But if someone who smokes is coming over to my house then I request that they shower, wear clean clothes, and do not smoke while visiting. Do I have to make exceptions? Sure my brother is a narcissistic jerk who refuses to listen to anyone, so until my child was 1 years old he had no contact with my brother and now it's only during necessary family events (he smokes weed and cigarettes). These are things you will have to decide for yourself, regardless of what studies show. You can only change your own habits and do what makes you feel best with regards to thirdhand smoke exposure. Maybe my way is too extreme for you, maybe not. But I also know that studies are limited on thirdhand cannabis exposure, whether through smoking or vaping. It is too early to have this data, things are just starting to come out about cannabis exposure in children. I treat it as bad as tobacco, because I would rather be safe than risk exposing my child to it.

With regards to exposure to sickness, personally I only stayed away from sick people for the first six months. After that, it's normal for a baby to get sick. I don't avoid seeing people I want to see if they are sick. Obviously, I vaccinate my child to protect them.

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u/TheOnesLeftBehind 14h ago

Thc is extremely sticky as well, and leaves a disgusting residue just like tobacco. Neither is better than the other in the context of newborn (and all other’s) lungs. They both have toxins and carcinogens.

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u/mmbtc 18h ago

Smoking is incredible dangerous for newborns even when only in the vicinity of a sleeping smoker.

I did some research on that some time ago, so here some of the things I used on someone I wanted to inform:

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome remains a leading cause of death in infants after one month of age, and secondhand smoke exposure has been established as a significant risk factor. According to comprehensive research, there is a clear causal relationship between parental smoking habits and SIDS incidence.

A large case-control study found that infants of mothers who smoked during pregnancy had a 4.09 (95% confidence interval [CI] = 3.28, 5.11) greater risk of death than infants of non-smoking mothers:

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/91/5/893/58382/Smoking-and-the-Sudden-Infant-Death-Syndrome?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Beyond maternal smoking, this study also established that smoking by fathers and other household members increased the risk (odds ratio [OR] = 2.41, 95% CI = 1.92, 3.02). These findings conclusively led researchers to state that "passive tobacco smoking is causally related to SIDS".

There's also a Dutch study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3175033/

Statement from the Canadian government: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-concerns/tobacco/legislation/tobacco-product-labelling/smoking-sudden-infant-death-syndrome.html

And Australia:

https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/tobaccofacts/second-hand-smoke-and-children

And a deeper dive from another source: https://www.nationaljewish.org/education/health-information/smoking-tobacco-use/secondhand-smoke/impact-on-children

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u/D1_CHASER 17h ago

Any studies on thirdhand smoke with no tobacco or indoor smoking taking place?

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u/mmbtc 7h ago

What is thirdhand smoke, and why is it a concern? - Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/quit-smoking/expert-answers/third-hand-smoke/faq-20057791

Humans transport dangerous smoke residues indoors https://www.mpg.de/14558058/humans-transport-dangerous-smoke-residues-indoors

What Is Thirdhand Smoke? > News > Yale Medicine https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/what-is-thirdhand-smoke

Residential thirdhand smoke pollution and exposure - PMC https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3666918/

Third-hand smoke may be lurking in nonsmoking areas, study finds https://www.cbsnews.com/news/third-hand-smoke-lingers-in-nonsmoking-areas-study-finds/

Potent Carcinogen Detected in Third-Hand Smoke Residue https://scienceblog.cincinnatichildrens.org/potent-carcinogen-detected-in-third-hand-smoke-residue/

Thirdhand' smoke can hitchhike to non-smoking sites https://www.snexplores.org/article/thirdhand-smoke-can-pollute-non-smoking-sites

Policy-relevant differences between secondhand and thirdhand smoke https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/33/6/798

Thirdhand Smoke: New Evidence, Challenges, and Future Directions https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5501723/