r/Scotch • u/finnpass • 1d ago
Buying IB’s
So I am really getting into independent bottlers like Cadenheads, Signatory, Adelphi, etc. But how do you know what you are buying? Some shops near me have some open bottles but a lot of times there are so few bottles produced that I have no way of trying before buying. Are you guys just buying them with the information on the label/good experiences with previous bottles from the distillery/bottler?
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u/thatfamousgrouse @SpiritsSafe 1d ago
Whskybase, reviewers like Serge/WhiskyFun, etc. Then learning which IB bands to trust, and which recipes of distillery and cask are successful for you (example for me = a fruity distillate and a worn in ex-bourbon barrel or hoggie and at least 15 years).
Trial and error really. IBs can be the best but you have to be willing to accept some risk.
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u/bjb13 1d ago
You experiment. Over time you learn which IBs produce generally excellent quality bottlings. For example, I’ve yet to be disappointed by any of the three you mentioned or Thompson Brothers or Gordon & MacPhail.
I have had a couple of other IBs where I’d want to taste the specific bottling before I’d buy or know I liked the typical whisky the distillery puts out.
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u/snores 1d ago
It comes out to gambling, but if you know the bottle i feel you're hedging your bets. Signatory hasn't steered me wrong, but I've bought Caol Ila which I already knew I liked.
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u/finnpass 1d ago
Thank you! Thats true, the bottles I bought from distilleries I’ve known for a long time are indeed mostly quite a save bet. But I am especially interested in IB’s from workhorse distilleries like Glentauchers, Balmenach, Blair Atholl, where I just don’t have the biggest experience with yet.
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u/Bryceybryce 1d ago edited 1d ago
Honestly you just roll the dice man. Nothing to it but to do it. If you go in with the mind set of “I want to try something new” vs “I want to try something good” it helps. For unknowns I’ll usually give them a shot if they’re $70usd or less (ideally $50-$60). Where I’m at pours of single malts at bars are usually $20+ anyways so if I can get a bottle for 2-3 pours at a bar I don’t feel too bad about it regardless if I love the bottle or not. Worst case I got to try something new and have a bottle to make high balls with
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u/forswearThinPotation 18h ago edited 18h ago
Honestly you just roll the dice man. Nothing to it but to do it. If you go in with the mind set of “I want to try something new” vs “I want to try something good” it helps.
Late to the discussion here, but I agree strongly with this.
u/finnpass - my experience has been that when purchased blindly from specs & reviews (i.e. not being able to try a sample first) which is how I do 95% of my purchasing, IBs are not necessarily higher in overall average quality than are OBs, assuming that both are well chosen to fit your tastes & goals, using all of the info you can find regarding them.
But what IBs do well is to greatly expand the range and diversity of scotches you can try - in flavor, in style, in which distilleries are represented, in era of production, and in maturation styles & techniques (cask type, etc.). And when they are much cheaper than OBs (which is not always the case and less so in recent years) IBs can extend your range into subgenres that you might not otherwise be able to afford - for example I've been able to explore older single malts (30+ years) on a modest budget largely thanks to the IBs.
What this means is that you'll probably be getting the most out of what IBs have to offer with a buying strategy that emphasizes exploration ("I want to try something new" as u/Bryceybryce puts it so well). My mantra which I've evolved over the years is that (within reason) the only really bad whisky purchase is one that I do not learn anything from it.
Over time with experience you will get a sense of the personality which different IBs have, which influences what their bottlings tend to be like, and that plus experience with a range of distilleries, cask types, etc. will make it easier to read reviews and specs and make good guesses based on them. Some other redditors elsewhere on this post are giving good advice along those lines. But don't let a lack of experience hold you back from starting the journey - there is no time to learn like the present.
Every new bottle is a bit of a gamble, and those bought blind are bigger gambles. But if rolling the dice means that I break new ground in my understanding of whiskies as a large & diverse group, it makes those gambles easier to take (and losing ones easier to move on from). IBs often offer the most fertile ground for that risk taking kind of exploration. And many of my favorite bottles over the years have been ones that I took a long odds chance on, relying upon a gambler's instincts which told me try this one.
Also, get a copy of David Stirk's book Independent Scotch: The History of Independent Bottlers, which is a wonderful read (with some hilarious stories) and gorgeously put together. It is worth the price many times over, IMHO and to my taste.
Cheers
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u/Affectionate_Fly1918 1d ago
Hey, that is a pretty poor comparison. /s
There is good Caol Ila, there is excellent Caol Ila, there is great Caol Ila, and there is sublime Caol Ila. There is no such thing as a bad Caol Ila, just less-great ones.
There is no guarantee that your advice is applicable to other distillery releases (especially when applied to some Islay distilleries).
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u/leadfoot_mf 1d ago
Almost all of my favorite bottles have been from ib's. all i care about is no color added and no chill filter and over 43 percent abv, but the higher the abv the better then it just comes down to cost if I am willing to pay what they are asking.
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u/CocktailChemist Drinker of Drinks 1d ago
Some of it depends on how quickly things sell out. If it’s not a rush you can keep an eye out for reviews, local tastings, or making friends with folks who will split bottles or share samples. But a lot of times you’re rolling the dice.
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u/Negative-Panda-904 1d ago
Online the IB have been discussed by multiple sources. Personally i think it’s multifactorial what IB you can try or believe in. I approach them by multiple ways, Cadenheads tends to do really good bottlings of very good distilleries at 46 abv. Signatory has higher abv but most in sherry or some type of sherry maturation. Adelphi tends to be more limited releases but also above average delivery. AD Rattray also very good delivery for most part. I usually follow advise from majors internet whisky content providers specifically Ralphy and a few others. That have talk extensively about the IB and distillate of the distillery. I usually study the IB and malt being presented first, meaning cask, age abv etc then will proceed with purchase once I know what to expect, in that way won’t be disappointed if reality is different than expectations since more realistic idea.
Also depends on what experience you have with the different cask maturation and your preference since we all have different palate.
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u/HRShovenstufff 1d ago
If they tell you what distillery/what cask then that's usually enough for me.
Also bought several Gordon & McPhails recently; as they're ceasing IB production.
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u/Perfect-Disaster1622 1d ago
They will still be releasing IB bottlings, they just won’t start any more production from 2024 forward so they’ll still sell. I’m glad I got a stock of around 10 bottles from them at the moment and will add more in the coming years
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u/finnpass 1d ago
Yeah I heard indeed, but I was at their shop in Elgin last month and luckily they were still pretty stocked!
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u/brielem 1d ago
They only stopped filling new cask a year or so (maybe a couple of years already?) ago. That means for the next few years they will be as stocked as they ever where, only in 5-10+ years we'll see they don't have as much left anymore. And we can expect older bottlings from them for a long time, possibly even long enough for them to reverse this decision. It'll depend on the market conditions.
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u/Perfect-Disaster1622 1d ago
They’ll still have bottlings for quite some time I’d say longer than a decade maybe 20-25 years
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u/DreadLifter 1d ago
Interesting to know. I did notice in recent years I started to encounter their bottlings less. Wish I'd known this last week when driving through Elgin!
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u/Hpulley4 1d ago
Be glad you don’t live where I do where anything not at the government liquor store needs to be ordered by the case so you aren’t gambling on a bottle you are gambling on at least 6 bottles! And you can’t legally sell it to anyone if you don’t like it, aside from the official government auction which happens a few times a year…
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u/finnpass 1d ago
O wow, that sounds rough! Where are you based? Here in The Netherlands there are luckily a lot of (online) shops with hundreds of bottles to choose from
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u/Hpulley4 1d ago
Canada. We have provincial liquor boards which do all the buying. We can’t import liquor ourselves, only through the board. Hold over from Prohibition.
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u/SignificantClaim6353 1d ago
Almost all the bottles I've bought tover the years I hadn't tried before buying. Where I am, there are only the standards in the bars, or if there is a special bottle that I'm thinking to buy, a dram costs like a third of the full bottle online so it never makes sense to try at a bar. Just look at reviews and roll the dice
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u/peterm18 1d ago
I usually try before I but at whisky festivals and tastings. I also go to Edinburgh a few times a year. If I ever blind buy then I look at reviews.
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u/macT4537 1d ago
Yes. That’s all you can do but if you get a handle on where the juice is from, what’s it aged in, and length of age, the. You should have a good idea of what to expect.
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u/Drinksliquidassets 21h ago
We imported these mini packs of 5x50ml bottles to let people try bottlings without committing to a full bottle https://scotchdrinkersonly.com/products/lady-of-the-glen-us-exclusive-explorer-pack-5x-50-ml-mini-bottles
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u/Infinite_Research_52 12h ago
To cut down on duds, you can also find a shop that runs tasting evenings with an interesting lineup (e.g. the latest Cadehead releases or Wormtub stills). You buy a ticket and you get to sample multiple whiskies. Often those whiskies are available for purchase (the shop wants to push the product after all) so you can find a bottle you like (OB or IB) and purchase it if the demand is not too high.
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u/b1uepenguin Whiskers 1d ago
Single cask bottlings are one of the big market niches that independent bottlers have filled in the last couple of decades (prior to that, if you wanted a single malt, that was often where you looked since most distilleries did not have their own line-- that has changed). As a result, you run into exactly what youʻve described, lots of single cask products with only a couple hundred bottles in the outturn.
I look for two things straight away; is this a bottler or a label that I have lots of faith in and is this a distillery I already know I like.
If the answer to both of those is a yes or a maybe, then I will look at cask type, age, vintage, etc., to see whether it sounds like something I am likely to enjoy and whether I think the price matches my desire. I have bought far too many similar bottles in the past, and generally I try hard to avoid having too many bottles that might be very similar any more (but rules are made to be broken...)
So a lot of this comes down to experience with the bottlers, distilleries, or the expectations I might have for how a particular age or maturation might play out (even when not really familiar with the distillery).