r/Scotland • u/the_melancholy_1 • Jan 28 '24
Discussion Thoughts on XL Bully after recent Scotland Incident
I was reading about the recent XL Bully attack and looking at people responses. Something I feel people miss is, while it mostly comes down to training, the breed is simply too powerful to be in a domestic or public environment when things do go wrong.
The power behind their bites is colossal. They are stacked with muscle. There is no reason to have a dog with that kind of power in a domestic environment. Similar to assault rifle in the US for self defense. There is no need for that sort of power.
Dog ownership, for most, is about having a companion, a reason to stay active and get out of the house and maybe even something to cuddle. While XL Bully can be companions and cuddly to some, when it goes wrong or they flip, it's deadly. When with most other dogs it's more manageable when or if they turn or flip out.
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u/FirmDingo8 Jan 28 '24
I'm 61, had dogs as pets all my life. I've never been scared of a dog we've met on a walk until it was an XL Bully....when they are up close they are simply colossal. Huge broad head, look like they're on steroids.
Absolutely no need for them, and unfortunately for anyone that has a genuinely nice one.....too risky to be around on balance.
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u/BeaDrawDabbity Jan 28 '24
Its not even the size, my dog is a lot bigger than most XL bullies and she literally wouldn’t harm a fly. Its what they’ve been bred for. I’m absolutely certain that a 30kg XL bully could destroy my 65kg dog because they were bred for that purpose whereas she wasn’t
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Jan 29 '24
I bet your dog even being that big (and wow that is a big dog) couldn't fit someones head in their mouth though right? lol
Having seen these up close it's just silly how big those jaws are.
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u/BeaDrawDabbity Jan 29 '24
Never thought about it, now staring at her hoping she’ll yawn so i can measure it! Shes a mastiff so still a big jaw
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Jan 28 '24
When out walking with my dog, I was always cautious to avoid Staffies for his sake. They are in the same bracket as the XL Bully, with the same issues surrounding ownership and genetic disposition for violence against other dogs........ I have winessed one turning on a Spaniel in a park, ultimately tearing it to shreds, and these stories are not uncommon. But when I started seeing XL Bullies in parks etc, I was avoiding them for BOTH our sakes. It's the same feeling when you encounter a bull on a public footpath and suddenly realise that this animal could kill you with little effort if it suddenly decided to, and there's not a thing you could do about it! There really is no justifiable reason for them to be kept as "pets". Not that they are though, their primary purpose is status and intimidation. There is no other reason that anyone would make that choice.
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u/thepurplehedgehog Jan 28 '24
Yeah, Staffies can be really weird. Neighbour got one as a pup, got loads of cuddles from cute pup. About 6 months later I moved away. Went back to visit a pal who had moved into the same block as i had lived in, pup was now 6 years old. Came up to me, sniffed a bit, rolled over onto his belly for cuddles, he remembered me! Staffie then spotted a guy out for a walk with a yorkie…immediately got up, bolted over and turned into an absolute snarling ragebeast ready to kill said yorkie. Yorkie was only saved by guy picking him up. Staffie then went for guy’s leg but owner managed to drag him back into the house. Just……yikes. The instant change from cuddly pooch to devil dug was terrifying.
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u/jiggjuggj0gg Jan 29 '24
Staffies can be really lovely dogs and they absolutely love people (hence the ‘he’d never hurt a fly!’ from the owners - they’re extremely cuddly and friendly at home) but really really need to be socialised with other dogs early. They seem predisposed to not like other dogs.
I do pet sitting and have looked after a few Staffies and a lot of owners just never bothered, which means you have a dog with a lot of energy that can barely go outside because it gets so stressed and angry any time it sees another dog. Which is such a shame because I really love them as a breed and they genuinely are extremely sweet with people.
Way too many people just get a dog to fit their image and don’t bother researching what they need. Dog temperaments vary enormously and each need different kinds of lifestyles and training. If you can’t be bothered doing the bare minimum to make sure your dog is safe and happy, don’t get a dog.
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u/thepurplehedgehog Jan 29 '24
Agree, 100%. Mack was one of the sweetest snuggly bois I’ve ever met. It was genuinely funny to watch him go from typical aggressive-looking muscle dog, growling menacingly at whatever pigeon dared to land in his garden to a big sook instantly, on his back, paws in the air, making happy growly grunty noises as you tickled his belly. I just didn’t put it together that the switch in the opposite direction could be just as sudden.
I think socialisation was the issue with Mack. He was quickly socialised around humans as a pup, but not so much other dogs. He’d bark his head off on walks if there was another dog within about 200 feet. Especially smaller dogs. Hence, one nearly dead yorkie. And that’s the one instance I saw. I’m sure there was a lot more of that, i just wasn’t around to see it.
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u/StevieTV r/Scotland's Top Cunt 2014 Jan 28 '24
When I was a teenager my mate's Dad had two staffies that had been family pets for years and had never been a problem. His parents were out and we were just watching a film in his living room and the two dogs just suddenly started fighting for no reason. It was fucking terrifying and it took us what felt like ages to separate them. Fuck all those types of dog.
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u/usernamesforsuckers Jan 28 '24
Encountered a puppy xl in the park the other week. Even as a 3 month old puppy it was bigger than my full grown cockapoo, and was FAR too interested in my dog.
It may well have been nice but I wasn't taking the chance, luckily had my dog on lead and yanked her away.
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u/Weak_Reaction_8857 Jan 28 '24
The law doesn't go nearly far enough, we need:
- A ban on all cruel breeds that have inherent health problems (yes including Pugs, sorry). This is beyond public safety, it's about animal cruelty
- Mandatory liability insurance, same as driving, the government should regulate the cost but ultimately the market will decide which breeds are really more dangerous
- Some kind of points system with life-time bans on dog ownership. Only responsible people get to keep dogs
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u/layzee_aye Jan 28 '24
Is it not a bit tricky legally to ban certain types of dogs because the fashion now tends to be cross breeds (doodles, etc.) rather than KC purebreds.
It seems a bit like the problem of banning certain drugs; just modify it a wee bit, it’s no longer ecstasy…
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u/Weak_Reaction_8857 Jan 28 '24
Yeah this is true, it's just so sad we're breeding dogs that can't breathe and get joint pain and other problems.
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u/layzee_aye Jan 28 '24
Aye I remember seeing a documentary about this, they showed pugs specifically and talked about how hard it is for some of them to breathe. Wasn’t an easy watch and I agree they shouldn’t be allowed to be bred into existence knowing they will have these issues.
I think a lot of owners don’t realise how bad their dogs have it, that the wee cute noises they’re making are actually the poor buggers trying to catch their breath.
The vet on the doc said it was like us trying to breathe through a straw 😢
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u/Milbso Jan 28 '24
You'd think they could just word the law to ban any dog with pit bull genetics. Of course in some cases it wouldn't be easy to identify visually, but it would at least mean any person who knowingly purchased or adopted a pit mix would be doing so illegally.
That alone would likely reduce the numbers significantly, and it would then make it easier for police to deal with when a pit mix was identified. It would also mean anyone advertising pit mixes would be advertising an illegal product.
I actually think the main barrier is that they don't want to ban certain pit mixes, like the Staffie, so they need the law to be somewhat limited.
Of course it's true that people can and will find loopholes, but that's no reason to just give up and let people do what they want.
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u/layzee_aye Jan 28 '24
Then you go down the road of what exactly are “pit bull genetics”. Despite what those dna testing companies tell you, it just ain’t that simple!
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Jan 28 '24
Mantra ‘it’s how there brought up’ doesn’t sit right with me. Certain dog breeds have genetic pre-dispositions; collies want to round live stock up, spaniels want to collect game and retrieve…etc. There is evidently a prey instinct in these dogs that kick in and like the post points out, their size and strength makes it nigh impossible to stop them.
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u/Halbaras Jan 28 '24
Isn't is weird that big dog breeds which were designed to rip other dogs apart while ignoring being in terrible pain are dangerous to humans?
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u/TexDangerfield Jan 28 '24
This.
Look, obviously how you train a dog is important but the amount of people who try to compare XL bully attacks to those of smaller dogs is fucking laughable.
"Yeah but but but but I've seen Pugs bite. It's completely the same thing!"
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Jan 28 '24
This reminds me of an hilarious exchange with a colleague a few years ago. He very confidently claimed that pugs were bred to attack lions in Africa backing up the claim with the "fact" that their small muzzle provides a stronger bite.
I called bullshit and we started our Google searches to find evidence to support our respective views.
He soon admitted he was wrong, saying "sorry... I was thinking of The Rhodesian Ridgeback, otherwise known as the Lion Hound!"
The image of a pack of pugs trying to bring down a lion still makes me laugh.
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u/AlexPaterson16 Jan 29 '24
Literally on that topic, statistically speaking Jack Russells bite more people than any other breed but the key difference is that no one has ever died from a Jack Russel attack
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u/anonbush234 Jan 28 '24
It's not just big dogs. It's actually a trait of terriers who are often very small dogs. .there's animals had to go underground in the pitch black alone, with animals that are much bigger than themselves. It's no wonder that they needed that drive really, otherwise they wouldn't have done their job.
The same thing is extended to larger terriers who fought other dogs or bulls and guarded against people.
They have a switch in their heads and when it comes on it takes away any ideas they might have about worrying for their own existence.
I see it in my own terrier, a Yorkie and lasso cross, she's the size of a big jack russel and sometimes picks fights with our lurcher who could kill her in seconds, luckily that's not in her nature.
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u/BeverleyMacker Jan 28 '24
Yeah but your dogs attack somebody you can get them off as they don’t weigh 14 stone plus
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u/Tundur Jan 29 '24
Yeah, Jack Russells are notoriously belligerent but you could reasonably volley one over a house without much trouble.
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u/StreetMountain9709 Jan 29 '24
I keep reminding people that the dog fighting industry is still alive and well.
These aren't just dogs whose ancestors have been bred to fight way back in the 1920s. It's their grandparents and their parents who are out there as fighting stock.
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Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
I keep reminding people that the dog fighting industry is still alive and well.
This is where people are being idiots. They can't fathom that the industry is still going strong and their precious Pebbles has come from second generation murder machines.
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u/StreetMountain9709 Jan 29 '24
Pebbles mum was not a poor abused "bait dog", she is a line bred killer, those wee scars on her are from winning fights. The bait dogs are the dogs of other breeds who are stollen pets, that do not survive the fights.
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Jan 28 '24
Completely agree. We had a Border Collie for 14 years before he passed, he was anxious, wanted to herd you all the time, we joked he had OCD because he had a strict routine of his own making. He wanted to chase a ball for an hour every night, and even in his final days he still wanted to chase that ball. He didn't know how to stope, regardless of the pain he was in or how tired he was.
None of that was trained into him.
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u/F1sh_Face Jan 28 '24
I used to take my collie cross with me when I went out on my bike on forest roads. I had to stop as he started to age and I realised he would run alongside me until he dropped down dead.
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u/BevvyTime Jan 28 '24
One woman recently came out with the theory that all Border Collies are autistic.
I haven’t read much into it, but she’s done a whole study.
Seems a bit harsh to me but what do I know
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u/Anonyjezity Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
I had a border collie for 15 years and always said he was autistic. Wasn't meaning it as an insult but as a fact. I just saw them as high functioning autistic dogs. I've got a staffy now and he's much more chill and relaxed. Sleeps most of the day while the collie was always focused on things, gets up when he wants unlike the collie who had to do it to a routine, doesn't want to go out when the weather's bad again unlike the collie who had to go out at the same time every day no matter the weather. The collie was always more cautious around new people while the staffy thinks everyone is his pal and just goes up and sits next to anyone looking for a cuddle or a treat.
The collie was got from a working farm as a puppy so never actually did any herding but still wanted to herd stuff. The staffy is a rescue pup so the only thing I've had to watch with him is the fact he will eat anything he finds. There's no residual behaviour traits and whenever someone watches him for me he just adjusts his behaviour to how they like whereas the collie would always be waiting for me to come back and take him home. He's just a more adaptable dog when it comes to routine.
The only time the collie was happy at someone else's house was when he got to go to my parents and play with their bearded collie and he got really sad (like visibly so) when that dog died. He liked having guests at the house but liked going out less so. The staffy is just happy going wherever as long as there's food and somewhere to sleep.
They are/were both great dogs and really easy to train because they're both bred as people pleasers but the basic behavioural differences are massive.
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u/fords42 Jan 29 '24
I have two Border collies and also think they’re autistic. The study that was recently done is a great read.
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u/audigex Jan 28 '24
Yeah a collie puppy will try to herd people even if it’s never so much as seen a sheep, they do have instincts and the idea that they don’t is ridiculous
And even if we ignore that, they’re BIG dogs with extremely powerful jaws, so even if we assume it’s just bad owners or bad luck, the fact is that you’re gonna get much more seriously hurt if an XL Bully bites you than if a cockerpoo does
They’ve been bred to be intimidating, and importer specifically to get around bans on other dogs
And anecdotally: I’ve never met an XL Bully owner who wasn’t also a cunt
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u/markgtba Jan 28 '24
Anyone using a dog to intimidate is a cowardly cunt
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Jan 28 '24
There's one walks near me with a young couple who have a small toddler. They both strike me as a pair of slack jawed morons. I look at the child and think, "surely that's only a matter of time...."
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u/BeaDrawDabbity Jan 28 '24
I don’t know all that many, but of the few I do know - two heroin addicts and three low level coke dealers, one of whom was also breeding them. Very small sample size admittedly but 100% not ideal dog owners
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u/Call_It_What_U_Want2 Jan 28 '24
I have a collie, it’s mad to see how strong dog’s instincts are. Aside from the herding stuff, he’s also anxious. They’re just tightly wound, not much to be done about it. If you set off a firework or slam a cupboard door, he’s off to hide in a confined space.
Some dogs have a really strong prey drive, especially for small animals - it’s not their fault, but it’s not something you can fight.
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u/Mousehat2001 Jan 28 '24
Yea sight hounds have a strong prey drive and there is no way to train being a sight hound out of them. They’d have us believe XL bullies are just blank states though.
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Jan 28 '24
I agree. My greyhound has grown up around cats and livestock, and although when he was young, natural prey drive could rear it's head and had to be checked, by the time he was 5, he could be trusted fully around not just our own animals, but showed no interest in other animals of a similar nature, so shows no desire to chase cats, poultry or game birds of any kind, sheep, cattle or horses, even deer to an extent usually get a pass now that he's even older. But rabbits or hare still get him in full ready mode, and he has to be watched for it, you can't be complacent. So while his instincts have been mostly brought to heel by exposure and encouraging play with toys instead of live animals, they are still there, he is genetically programmed for it. I am in no denial of this evident fact.
If his genetic makeup was not a prey drive for small animals, but a "Maul and Kill with extreme prejudice" drive, AND he was physically capable of bringing down prey much larger and stronger than a human.......... why the FUCK would anyone have that in the house?! But we all know the answer don't we......... "Look at my big hard dog.......... yeah, I'm hard too, I'm so dangerous and cool.....!" Fucking halfwitted pond life!
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Jan 28 '24
My wee spaniels the same; if you got animal ADHD he’d be at the extreme end of the spectrum, it’s a common spaniel trait.
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u/iambeherit Jan 28 '24
I grew up with border collies my entire life. They're mental. None of them saw a sheep their entire lives, yet they would herd anything that moved or didn't. When they were awake, they were herding. Absolutely mental dogs, so wound up.
Dogs bred to do a job have it in their genes. You can train them all you like. It's part of their DNA. It's in there. And it might not come out in a pit type dog like it does in collies, but when it does, you better be prepared.
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u/Cnidarus Jan 28 '24
Please forgive this unsolicited advice, but it might help to find some sort of advanced training project to try with your dog. It's possible that they do just have anxiety issues but with smarter breeds they can get anxious from too much unspent mental energy. If you give them something to challenge their brain a bit harder it can mellow them out a lot. I don't know the whole situation with your dog of course so this may not be relevant, I just wanted to suggest it in case it could help
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u/Call_It_What_U_Want2 Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
He’s very stimulated, he goes to daycare with other dogs every week day, and I take him out running as well as walking. He is definitely more relaxed when he’s had a good bit of exercise! And he loves his toys to occupy him, but some things like loud noises set him off no matter what unfortunately and he prefers to go and hide.
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u/Flaky_Sleep Jan 28 '24
I have a collie and he’s chill. He’s not even bothered when fireworks went off.
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u/RizZy_28 Jan 28 '24
I had a rough haired collie as a kid, the softest nicest dog I've ever met & even she bit me a few times when I was being a twat to her, difference was she wasn't a breed that could remove my face.
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u/bekahfromearth Jan 28 '24
It’s irks me so much to see collies living in city centre flats having been brought up with them on a farm. Our old boy would go for mile long walks a couple times a day and still ask to go back out. They do not tire easily. A friend’s sister had one in a crate while she worked full time and the poor thing went mad.
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Jan 28 '24
Aw I know…must drive them insane. We adopted a working spaniel; had previously been kept in a crate and not walked. Was deemed destructive, shredding things. Now get to run around woods daily, a total gem of a dog. It’s no rocket science.
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u/bekahfromearth Jan 28 '24
The collie was exactly like that; eventually she got sent to live on a farm and was much happier there. Our Scottie will run off if she gets a scent and our border terrier used to catch rats on the farm until one bit her back and those two will happily sleep the entire day away like they have no prey instinct, but it is definitely there.
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u/L_to_the_OG123 Jan 28 '24
Also, even if there is a bizarre situation where a dog breed is bad solely due to how they're brought up, that's still a huge social problem that'd need dealt with. Finding out a dog wasn't genetically pre-disposed to attack you before it did attack you isn't much of a consolation. And much as I love dogs public safety needs to be the main concern in this type of situation.
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u/EntiiiD6 Jan 29 '24
That prey instinct is in much bigger, stronger dogs with much more bitforce as well.
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u/lochnesssmonsterr Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
People say that we should blame the owners not the dog… well I agree and I think the new laws do a fantastic job of weeding the good owner out from the bad. If you have a dangerous dog you SHOULD be chipping it, neutering it, leading and muzzling it in public and otherwise keeping it under control. These are not unreasonable tasks for responsible dog owners. If you aren’t willing - or able - to do these things you are not a responsible dog owner and your dog should be seized. It’s unfortunate that those dogs will be put down but that’s the reality when there are more XL Bullies than responsible owners with suitable homes to take them. That’s on the breeders, not on society who now has to fix their mess.
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u/megabot13 Jan 28 '24
Exactly this. When I first heard about the ban I thought it was awful, but then when I looked into it all the owners need to do it act responsibly. I've got no idea why people were leaving their home to move to Scotland to 'save their dog'?!
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u/StreetMountain9709 Jan 29 '24 edited Feb 04 '24
Yeah, you thought it was awful because people painted it as if the dogs would be massacred.
There was an article the other day saying 30,00 dogs had been signed up for exemption, I am very much not a fan of these dogs, but I am glad that people are being responsible and putting the effort in, rather than just getting rid.
The only reason there would be a massacre is if the owners made it happen.
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u/TemporaryWinter7301 Jan 29 '24
Because the people that own these dogs have no reading comprehension and just believe what shit is spouted on FB
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u/megabot13 Jan 29 '24
Well there's no Jeremy Kyle anymore so I suppose they need something to be kicking off about.....
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Jan 28 '24
Police etc. initially didn’t want to say dog was an XL bully, which it clearly was, and the fact it was rehoused from England a few weeks before just confirms that.
That aside there’s no need for dogs like that as the sole aim is to make its owner look like the hard man they’re trying to portray and if you do insist on owning one have it muzzled at all times except in your home or Tyson gets destroyed.
Saying that the general consensus is that laws exist to curtail anyone to own one irresponsibly but that doesn’t mean it’s enforced though. Knee jerk reaction to a problem that didn’t exactly happen overnight.
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u/tshawkins Jan 28 '24
When an attack occurs its to late for any legal response, and the damage is done. That's why a preemptive response is needed.
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u/PartyPoison98 Jan 28 '24
the sole aim is to make its owner look like the hard man they’re trying to portray
This always gets left out by the pro-XL Bully people. I've never seen anyone out with an XL Bully that didn't fit this stereotype, and they all seem to go for the "yank on the leash and shout at it" method of training.
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u/Local_Fox_2000 Jan 28 '24
Police etc. initially didn’t want to say dog was an XL bully, which it clearly was, and the fact it was rehoused from England a few weeks before just confirms that.
It was the first thing that was reported in every article that covered it. It wasn't something that was covered up and only now came to light.
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u/PlasterCactus Jan 28 '24
The very first thing I read reported that police hadn't released the breed but it was a bulldog breed
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u/Turbulent-Owl-3391 Jan 28 '24
Police don't want to say 'yes it's this breed' until there's an expert putting their name to it.
All sorts of folk would come out the woodwork making various pish allegations of bias or such.
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u/Dramoriga Jan 28 '24
For the first half day, BBC etc all said "police are trying to determine the breed". I only found out it was an XL a couple of days later, from daily express of all rags.
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u/Careless_Main3 Jan 28 '24
It’s a bit like having mountain lion as a pet on a leash. These animals need proper space to protect themselves and the public from one and another.
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u/BarrettRTS Jan 28 '24
Looking at the numbers, they're pretty close to the same size as a Mountain Lion. Kinda puts it in perspective considering they sometimes kill people too.
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Jan 28 '24
I was at work last week and got charged by one. I was unloading a car near a workshop and this bastid hellhound came charging at me barking, growing, the works. I had a screwdriver in my hand and I yelled at the guy chasing after it to get control of it or I was stabbing the fuck out of it. I'm not particularly scared of dogs so I stood my ground. lt got right up to me, still barking and growling, then stopped about 6 feet away. I was fully prepared to murder this animal if it got any closer but the guy got a grip of it before anything happened. He then gave me dogs abuse (no pun intended) for threatening to stab his dog.
Imagine that had been a young kid, or someone terrified of dogs and they had bolted, I fully believe it would have chased them down and attacked. Same could be said for any dog but those things are pure muscle and strength, bloody scary animals.
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u/StrongLikeBull3 Jan 28 '24
It’s beyond me that people miss this. Let’s say that the breed isn’t actually any more aggressive than other breeds, okay.
So if 1 in every 1000 dogs are aggressive towards people, an XL Bully will always be able to inflict more damage than most other breeds.
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u/ysr82 Jan 28 '24
I keep seeing the argument too that chihuahuas are a much more aggressive breed. That might be the case, but I’d much rather be mauled by a chihuahua than an XL bully 😂 I don’t know why people think this is even a valid argument.
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u/L_to_the_OG123 Jan 28 '24
If you have a pet lion and walk it down the street it might, hypothetically not attack anyone...doesn't change the fact it's inherently much more dangerous and harder to control than a pet hamster.
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u/tarsier86 Jan 28 '24
My chihuahua is currently whinging that the cat is too close to his cuddly fox toy so will I please go get it for him. He once got growly over a stolen cheeseburger wrapper but he’s 3kg and not going to do any real damage. The sheer power behind an XL Bully is terrifying.
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u/TexDangerfield Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
If you check my comments I respond to an excellent post on this subject.
Chihuahuas are small dogs in a big world. When they growl, people are less likely to take their warning seriously and that would result in a bite.
You'd take an XLs warning seriously...
The amount of idiots I've encountered who think both dogs bites are comparable is insane and I'm speaking as someone against banning breeds but fucking hell, you don't need to be an animal expert to know one is deadlier than the other.
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u/SoftDrinkReddit Jan 28 '24
If most dog breeds bite someone you can smack them on the head and say NO BAD DOG
And they will wimper and cower away
An XL Bully however ?
Your going to have to either shoot it or beat it to death to stop it biting someone
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u/WetTheDreams Jan 28 '24
The biggest problem that it seems to be taboo to mention is that it's mostly dickheads who are attracted to that breed, the kind that get them either for security or just to look hard, they don't train them and when it eventually bites someone they play victim.
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u/TokeyMcTokeFace Jan 28 '24
Plus any larger sized “pit” looking dug gets classed as an “XL Bully” whether it is or not.
There’s a South African Mastiff lives near me, and has done for years. It’s now being called an XL Bully by clueless knobs.
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u/abarthman Jan 28 '24
After Googling what a South African Mastiff looks like and what its characteristics are, I think the knob is the owner rather than those confusing it with an XL Bully.
Boer Mastiff as an excellent fighter; one killed leopards in four single combats over a number of years, but was killed by a fifth. Characteristics: The Boerboel is a large dog, with a strong bone structure and well-developed muscles. The head is large, and the muzzle short. The dogs show courage when threatened; they may display aggression toward other dogs or strangers.
Why the fuck would anyone want to keep something like that as a pet?
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u/megabot13 Jan 28 '24
This always confuses me too, an Akita is bred to fight bears, why is that necessary?!!
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u/shilpa_poppadom Jan 28 '24
There was one up the park this morning. Mutilated ears, off the lead and no muzzle. It looked at me with its dead, doll's eyes but decided that today was not my day and I continued on my run.
That could happen every day for the next 100 days but, on the 101st day, it might just decide that I was no longer allowed to live.
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u/Potential_Bus3376 Jan 28 '24
Have to agree with you. I personally know people who are good owners and have XLs well trained. However the ones I come across when walking my dog are owned by people that couldn’t give a f*** about actually raising a dog.
My wee dog nearly got savaged coming out my front door from just a pocket bully that was stacked with muscle, it had zero recall (and burst out the hands of its junkie owner - who was also walking a massive Akita). I can handle myself but if that wee pocket bully had wanted to latch onto me and not my dog (luckily I was able to lob my dog over my fence into the garden so he was fine) I know I’d have been f***ed.
Boils my piss seeing idiots who don’t give a shit about raising dogs, owning dogs (and that’s breed agnostic). The problem is certain breeds attract certain types. The XL Bully attracts some absolute weapons.
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u/Alasdair91 Gàidhlig Jan 28 '24
With XL Bullies it’s like saying, “It’s the way the lion was raised that is the problem! If the owner was better, it wouldn’t have eaten him!”
It’s a lion. It wants to eat things. You can’t train that out of it. Same with these dogs. They are bred to be huge and powerful. And they want to maul things. That’s just how it is…
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u/Lupus76 Jan 28 '24
They are bred to be huge and powerful. And they want to maul things. That’s just how it is…
Now couple this with the fact that the people who buy them are absolute d-bags.
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u/Umbrellac0rp Jan 29 '24
Like Chris Rock said when the Las Vegas Tigers mauled their trainers. "That tiger didn't go crazy, that tiger went tiger!"
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Jan 28 '24
The thing that most people miss is Poppy wouldn't hurt a fly... a toddler maybe
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u/OpAdriano Something offensive Jan 28 '24
This is completely incorrect. Pit-bulls are an exceptionally aggressive dog that were bred for hunting much larger animals. They do not communicate the same as other breeds with body language and lack self-preservation instincts. They are not fit for use in service roles because they cannot be controlled when they go on the attack as they lose the ability to heed commands. Terriers also possess this trait but they are not so large.
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u/Normal-Height-8577 Jan 28 '24
And XL Bullies have been bred to be nearly twice the size of regular Pitbulls.
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Jan 28 '24
A pit bull is a terrier. Pit bull terrier.
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u/OpAdriano Something offensive Jan 28 '24
It is technically as per the name but it does not function as a terrier which are typically farm animals used for hunting vermin. Dog breeds are very non-scientific. I have never heard of anyone keeping a pit bull as a working dog.
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Jan 28 '24
Aren't they bred more primarily for dog fighting and not hunting? As someone with extensive experience of hunting breeds, (keeping and training them, not hunting with them), my read on it is that in the past when hunting with dogs was common, in order to have necessitated a succesful hunt using an animal, it is paramount that the dog be bred to have an instinctive knowledge of it's purpose and the dynamic between itself and it's human counterpart. Hunting dogs are highly intuitive and intelligent, not killdozer murder machines.
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u/pintaday1234 Jan 28 '24
Trained various different border collies and terriers for farm work. What people don't want to admit is that the breed matters a lot on how the dog is trained and temperament.
XL bullies were bread for aggression and people need to be aware of this
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Jan 28 '24
I've been around a few in my work.
As OP says, it's the power and weight that makes them dangerous. Look at their stance, shape etc.
They can easily pull you down and once you are down, you'll be lucky to keep the limb(s) they are on.
Chap in north Wales lost both forearms recently. He was running a dogs care centre.
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u/shilpa_poppadom Jan 28 '24
Adam Watts was a kennel owner that took in a pitbull-type dog and he died for it. The dog had already mauled two pets in separate incidents but it was still allowed to live.
Lots of rescue dogs have gone through abuse and trauma but only one type seems to kill because of it.
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u/Rednwh195m Jan 28 '24
In the wrong circumstances even the most mild mannered breeds can turn. I had a labrador that nobody would expect to cause a problem but one day the local paper boy went to hand me the newspaper as I was coming back from a walk with my dog. The dog reared up at him teeth bared but fortunately I held him back on his lead. Next minute the dog was happily being stroked by same person. Obviously defence mode had kicked in just because of a change in action by paper boy. Imagine a dog bred from a fighting breed in this situation.
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Jan 28 '24
The thi s is that you can dominate a lab and even if you cannot for any reason, a labrador doesn't have the power to inflict such damage. They can certainly left scars, etc, but they don't have so much power as other breeds created to kill.
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u/tiacalypso Jan 28 '24
Coincidentally, a German man also died of Bully XL bites this weekend (in Germany). This came after the same dog had bitten the man‘s partner a while ago.
I‘m sure Bullies aren‘t inherently evil creatures but some animals are too dangerous to be kept as pets.
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u/ScotusMaximus Jan 28 '24
It’s a sad situation, I largely put the blame on people and it’s a shame the animals have to bare the brunt of the consequences.
And I’m not speaking purely about the owners, more so the generations of bad breeders and selling practices, with little to no preventive regulations from the governments in regard to breeding/ownership/training practices.
XL Bullies are the start, give it another decade or two and breeders will have replaced them with another horrendously genetically modified, dangerous and profitable breed.
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Jan 28 '24
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u/Turbulent-Owl-3391 Jan 28 '24
It is telling that a 48yr old man was in hospital and a few days later, a 48yr old man was charged.
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Jan 29 '24
surprise surprise the first XL bully I've seen in person on the tube in london...guy smacked his dog round the face. sat her on a seat, she started whimpering and was clearly agitated by the moving train so he smacked her on the face again, the whole time she's looking at me while getting more agitated. I hope the dog gets him and not someone else but she could've easily killed anyone on that carriage with a head and jaws so wide you'd think it'd been crossed with a hippo.
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u/EdzyFPS Jan 28 '24
I feel sorry for the dogs.
They did not ask to be here, ask to be inbred to hell and back.
Humans exploited them for profit. It's disgusting.
With that being said...
I read somewhere recently that all the ones attacking people are suspected to be descendent from the one called killer kimbo, who was inbred as fuck for fighting.
The whole breed can't be trusted now.
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Jan 28 '24
I feel sorry for them as well…there living creatures but we humans, sometimes, just don’t respect animals…the prospect of a quick buck ah.
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u/Local_Fox_2000 Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
Sounds like this one had been abused and was covered in old scars. A lot of idiots who have these dogs want them to fight. They intentionally make them as vicious as possible. I saw a documentary about the dog fighting scene in England, and it was just awful what they do to these dogs.
That's not to say even XL Bully's who have been treated well can't turn one day, because they also do but a lot of people are just irresponsible.
I read a story a couple week ago about a man from Wigan who was jailed for 3 years, he took his dogs muzzle off and encouraged the dog to attack a woman in the street, even saying "good girl, get her" and made it attack the woman for a second time. These are the idiots who want dogs like this.
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Jan 28 '24
Horrific ah; that to me should be categorised in the same way knife crime is. I’m sure there’s always been stuff like this goes on, but I think it’s the scale of the misuse of the animal and people not even being subtle about it.
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u/layzee_aye Jan 28 '24
My question in all of this was going to be: where did they come from?
So it seems they’ve been specifically bred by wrong ‘uns to be fighting dogs (like cock fights I suppose?) so is that legal?
I realise it would be a difficult thing to police but surely deliberately crossing certain aggressive animals with others to make essentially a lethal weapon of a dog should fall foul of the law somewhere?
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u/Kamikaze_Asparagus Jan 28 '24
People are the problem, little dogs like pugs should be banned too - not because they’re violent, but because they’re essentially just against nature.
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u/kevinspaceydidthings Jan 28 '24
All dogs should be on a lead in public places. I know this is aside from the XL bully argument, but dogs running riot really gets to me - and I absolutely love dogs.
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u/True-Lab-3448 Jan 28 '24
I think one thing missing from OP’s post is some people have dogs for status and security.
Being seen to have a large aggressive dog affords both a certain type of status and a form of security for some particular types of people.
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u/freddymac11 Jan 28 '24
I think before the ban there was another reason. Before the ban the puppies could be sold for a lot of money, so there was a sudden uptake in people having them as a means of earning money by breeding them.
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u/Gingermadman Jan 28 '24
Literally every bully XL around me is owned by drug dealers. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerous.
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u/AFancyPeacock Jan 28 '24
I cannot tell you how much I believe that you should need a license to own a dog, there should be mandatory puppy/training classes, insurance and yearly vet check ups.
Breeders should licensed too with stringent checks on animal welfare.
No one should have such a powerful dog and not be able to handle it, my neighbour has a German Shepard who is absolutely out of control, she never walks him because he drags her across the road when he sees another dog, he barks constantly because he's bored, she refuses to train him, refuses to hand him over to someone who can look after him so he suffers.
Don't buy a big and strong breed unless you're willing to put in the work and you know the breeders are good.
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u/kazerniel Jan 28 '24
puppy/training classes
Tbh even if they go to class, it doesn't mean they actually learn how to be a good dog owner. A family member has been taking their dog to a puppy/adult dog school for 3 years now, but because at home the owner doesn't consistently enforce boundaries and behaviours, the dog mostly just does whatever the fuck it wants. It learnt that if it's annoying enough, the owner will eventually give in. (At least that dog is only a 10kg herding breed, not a fighter.)
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u/ItsRebus Jan 28 '24
I used to assist at dog training classes. Some owners genuinely think that going to a class for one hour a week, and doing nothing for the rest of the week, is going to result in a well trained dog. They will then moan at the trainer because Fido is still pulling/biting/peeing the carpet. It's unbelievable.
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u/layzee_aye Jan 28 '24
I suggested that on another thread ages ago and someone pointed out the ridiculous admin burden it would be, not to mention people just… wouldn’t bother.
So you’d have all the responsible owners getting licences, while the ones you really want to keep an eye on just… won’t.
And yeah, it would cost a fortune and councils are already ridiculously underfunded!
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u/Terrible_Dish_4268 Jan 28 '24
The idea that they're okay in the right hands is bollocks. There are no right hands. It's like saying a pallet of fissile Uranium is okay if it's a responsible bloke that owns it. No, fuck off, just don't own it. Anyone.
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u/ShapeofmyFart Jan 28 '24
What is it bred for? Fighting.
It's a dog bred to inflict damage. Not to guard, not to herd, not to follow commands. So why should anyone be surprised when it inflicts damage?
Dogs bite. It's a normal occurrence, happens all the time, everywhere there are dogs. If you create a breed that can cause tremendous damage with its bite and give it a feisty temperament you know exactly what will happen. The apologists just want to have their giant muscle dogs without considering what it means.
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u/BeaDrawDabbity Jan 28 '24
The first XL bully I encountered was about ten years ago, heroin addict across the road was all excited to show me his new puppy. My first thought was “thats a pitbull, they’re illegal surely?” He was adamant this was a totally different breed, I wasn’t at all sure. Theres definitely a “type” of person who aspires to own a dog like that. A poor soul that thinks they need it for protection, a “hardman” that thinks the dog makes them look even “harder” or the absolute worstyins that breed them for profit to punt on to the other types
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u/velvetowlet Jan 28 '24
Ban this breed, another one will take its place. I'm not saying action shouldn't be taken but for as long as I can remember there's been "devil dogs" of particular breeds, it's only going to continue until there's a better fix than just saying "stop it" when a new breed appears
I don't know what this fix is. Making people feel like they don't need a meaty battle tank dog that can snap weans in two?
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u/SairYin Jan 28 '24
Ban the next breed too? Not sure what else can be done - it’s a bit whack a mole but effective in the long term
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u/Dizzle85 Jan 28 '24
Xl Bullies aren't being banned and haven't been in England either. Also, prove it is/ isn't an xl bully.
Dog ownership licences with required training programs. Specialist licences and training for breeds known for needing specialist experience ( cane corso, malinois, akita), same for anyone buying a working dog that isn't going to be working (border collie, destructive as fuck unless you're giving it what it needs in terms of mental stimulation). Would cut down on both dog related attacks as well as people giving up dogs because their behaviour isn't something they want to deal with anymore.
I say this as a dog owner of two fairly placid breeds.
If as many people had a cane corso or akita as have an xl bully, you'd be having the same problems with them.
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u/Whitewitchie Jan 28 '24
XL bullies are effectively banned in England from 1 February, as it will be illegal to breed them, rehome them or keep existing dogs without strict conditions. If your bully escapes without its muzzle, don't expect to be allowed to keep it. Eventually the remaining bullies will reduce in number as they reach the end of their lifespans. OK, the law doesn't require all XL bullies to be put to sleep on 1 February, but it is the closest possible step to it.
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u/DoryanLou Jan 28 '24
They are being banned in England and Wales from the 1st of February unless the owner applies for a special exemption
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Jan 28 '24
I don’t know why the government finds this so difficult. There an easy answer
Ban all dogs over, let’s say 35kg. Then give exemptions for recognised breeds. You want an Irish wolfhound? Fine. You want a not-xl-bully-because-I-crossed-it-with-a-bull-terrier? Sorry, not on the list. It’s fucking easy
Obviously dogs under 35kg can be dangerous too, but you’ve got a fighting chance if you can pick the fucker up.
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u/wanksockz Jan 28 '24
What about if my 34kg dog gets a bit fat?
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u/tshawkins Jan 28 '24
Then you become liable, incentive for you to make sure that does not happen, if your car becomes a "bit dangerous" because of poor maintenance then its your problem, why not your dog, or your hover board or anything you own. Making people legaly take responsibility. For everything, there should be a "throat to choke" if it goes wrong and impacts other members of society.
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u/wanksockz Jan 28 '24
This isn't about liability, I'm talking about a weight based ban. A 34kg dog kept hungry can be more dangerous than a well-fed 35kg specimen. It's not a sensible metric. People would be starving and dehydrating them in advance of weighing day.
For everything, there should be a "throat to choke" if it goes wrong and impacts other members of society.
Whilst I don't disagree lin the case of owning something dangerous, I think this attitude that someone must always pay is a wider problem in modern society. It's a chaotic and dangerous world, but we're never satisfied until someone has been "choked" on the sacrificial altar.
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u/StunnedMoose Jan 28 '24
My golden retriever is 36kg and scared of his own farts. Should he come under a special licence too?
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Jan 28 '24
No because golden retriever would be on the good boys list
Basically more or less every existing breed would be. This is just to put a stop to “it’s not an XL Bully it’s an XXL thuggie” nonsense
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u/twistedLucidity Better Apart Jan 28 '24
They're apparently moving on to Cane Corsos and Rottweilers already.
Cue calls for more bans, and I think that's where it will get interesting. Rottweilers are pretty popular with the middle classes, so expect the tone to suddenly change.
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u/Terrible_Dish_4268 Jan 28 '24
If the next breed is not quite as dangerous, though surely, if the next breed du jour has 25% less bite power, or more self-interest so it actually lets go if it's hit enough, or has less prey drive or less gameness, then yeah, we can't say problem solved but maybe if there's several less deaths per year we can say we've dented the problem?
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u/Working_on_Writing Jan 28 '24
I think you could specify that dogs over x height and/or y weight must be walked on the lead and must be muzzled in public.
I'd also introduce a government backed responsible dog ownership certification, which covers the basics of training, dog body language and a test on legal responsibilities, which is mandatory to have if you've got a big dog. Hell, even make every dog owner sit it. And I say that as somebody with 2 dogs.
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Jan 28 '24
Doberman, Rotweiler, Pitbull, Staff.......
Destroy the owners
Set up a sting selling American Bullies, and at the address is just a giant wood chipper, in they go and off the problem fucks
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u/atticdoor Jan 28 '24
Well no, because as people realise that dangerous dog breeds are likely to be banned before long they'll stop buying puppies of that breed. We can't decide to just not bother banning things which are dangerous on the basis that a slightly less dangerous thing will become the new must-have.
Guns are banned for most uses, but that doesn't mean everyone keeps a crossbow by their front door.
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u/Potential-Yam5313 Jan 28 '24
Ban this breed, another one will take its place.
In this context Scotland's original legal arrangement around dangerous dogs makes a good deal of sense. And it had worked fine for years.
In many ways what happened here is we met the breed that was bad enough to break the model, and the Scottish Government reacted stupidly to the evidence mounting about that.
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u/ChequeredTrousers Jan 28 '24
Yeah, I’m a huge dog lover and I’ve helped with Staffie charities for years, but these things are just a different kettle of fish.
There simply is no good reason to have them so big and powerful unless it’s to intimidate and hurt people.
I don’t advocate euthanising them all, but we should ban breeding them and let the bloodline die out.
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u/OfAaron3 Somewhere in the Central Belt Jan 28 '24
The guy that had the dog was refused a dog by the SSPCA. How in the hell was he allowed an XL Bully?
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u/frecklefawn Jan 28 '24
Idk how it is overseas but here in the US the continuous "it's the owner not the breed!" propaganda is actually generated and funded by an entire lobby with monetary interest in keeping pit bulls unbanned, frequently in shelters and adopted. Please look up "pitbull lobby". When families and children are being mauled and eaten and there's people still sticking their head in the sand ask yourself: Huh, is money involved?!? I dearly hope the same won't happen in scotland and UK
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Jan 28 '24
Give drug dealers and wanna be gangsters dogs and this is what happens folks. Mutant hell hounds with a lead on connected to the hands of just mutants.
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u/nomoreadminspls Jan 28 '24
It took me a minute. XL bully is a pitbull.
I walked by one in My building hallway the other day. It was not on a leash. It came up being very politely licked my leg. Well maybe not politely but it didn't mean anything by it.
It was uncomfortable and you're right, dogs of that size are unnecessary. Anything you can't overpower cannot be properly domesticated.
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u/GloomyUnderstanding Jan 28 '24
Honestly, blanket rules. All dogs stay on leashes and all cats stay indoors.
If a dog is over a certain weight, it needs a muzzle.
That would deal with people breeding the next big violent dog. It would also mean that there’s no generalisations.
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u/izote_2000 Jan 28 '24
There is a woman who walks her dogs as she passes just in front of my flat. She owns two of these dogs, and there is no muzzle in sight.
She always seems distracted with her phone. On any of these evenings, one of the dogs will try to run after someone or another dog, and she will have no chance to grab that leash on time. I hope I'm wrong.
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u/Purple-Honey3127 Jan 28 '24
Why are people so afraid to say genetics are like 80% of the issue. It cannot be overcome.
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u/Redsparow21 Jan 28 '24
Breeds that cause problems for innocent citizens and dogs who -- through no fault of their own -- their own health, shouldn't be allowed. Breeds with proven records of problematic patterns of attack and pugs who fall apart with breathing issues and their eyes falling out being the kind of things I mean. Both are forms of cruelty caused by people who want to be seen with certain breeds.
Also, fuck that "it's owners, not the dogs" shit people say too - no one cares about you thinking you're cool because you can get a dangerous dog with aggressive tendencies to stand next to you when you click your finger, when all it takes is a little child with one wrong smell on their clothes to have their life changed forever.
Get a lab you fucking cunt.
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Jan 28 '24
From the Daily Mail (who love this type of story)... 'Shocked locals who witnessed the attack in Hamilton, Lanarkshire said the 'huge' animal, thought to be called Zeus, was stabbed by its own owner, named locally as William Hunter, several times. '
Did the owner stab his own dog outside on the street, or in his own home then run outside? Or another way of putting it, was the owner also the kind of bloke who carries a knife while out walking a known dangerous breed of dog?
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u/sober_disposition Jan 28 '24
I’m really sad about how this has played out.
After all the problems in England the idiotic Scottish Nationalists adopted the narrative that it is a foreign problem and they would not tolerate foreign interference controlling XL Bullys in Scotland, as if they didn’t realise they are the same animals and simply crossing the border into Scotland doesn’t make them less dangerous.
And then they change their attitude as soon as as there’s an issue in Scotland and it turns out that Scottish people care about their safety as much as English people do.
It’s just another example of brain dead nationalist rhetoric exploiting every opportunity no matter how inappropriate or distasteful.
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u/BellamyRFC54 Jan 28 '24
It’s not all down to ownership
You can’t out train genetics
Get they cunts banned
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u/onlyusemefeets Jan 28 '24
We have one in the neighbourhood, belongs to this methhead tweaker that obviously cant hold it and ofcourse never picks up after the thing. Loves to bring it to the kids playground. I love dogs but this thing should be taken away so that dog can have a good life and not see my daughter as a snack
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u/Umbrellac0rp Jan 29 '24
You are right. But that doesn't get through to many of these owners. You got the ones that A) own them because they are powerful and scary looking. B) Want to be a savior against their reputation to be aggressive. C) Ignorant of breed specifics.
Overall most of these people have to learn the hard way when their dog attacks they can't stop it. Anyone can search on reddit and see bully owners ask for advice because their dog went out of control and no matter how many times they hit it, it wouldn't stop attacking. There are numerous stories of people stabbing them with knives and the dogs won't stop killing. They are bred to ignore pain.
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u/AlfalfaClean3607 Jan 29 '24
Love dogs but this whole XL bully thing is mental. We all choose breeds because there are certain attributes we appreciate but the minute someone is mauled it’s not the breed it’s the owner? Fool me once shame on you etc but the attributes these dog possess are, being willing fight to the death and at the same time being fucking massive!
Get them to fuck, it’s mainly bams that own them and this whole “they are going to kill my baby” shite so I’m going to send it to Scotland…. Nah, muzzle it, insure it and keep it the fuck away from me.
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u/Halk 1 of 3,619,915 Jan 28 '24
The important thing to remember is that England banned them so Scotland can't do the same thing.
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u/Dizzle85 Jan 28 '24
They're not banned in England though. Why lie?
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u/Whitewitchie Jan 28 '24
The law is set up so they will die out and not be replaced by newly bred puppies. Technically not banning them, just ensuring the breed dies out.
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u/jaybizzleeightyfour Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
They didn't ban them, there are close to 8000 of them in England, most of which will be legal
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u/ScunneredWhimsy Unfortunately leftist, and worse (Scottish) Jan 28 '24
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u/MsSchrodinger Jan 28 '24
I love dogs and have one but I wish that stricter rules were in place for all dogs.
It would make sense that everyone should have third party liability insurance.
No one should be allowed to have a dog off lead in busy public places. I recently saw a dog attacking a guide dog in our local town, it hadn't been on a lead because apparently it was well trained and wouldn't run off.
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u/fludblud Jan 28 '24
Chihuahuas can be right psychos too, but I've never heard of one killing an adult man before unlike a Bully
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u/GreyStagg Jan 28 '24
That's exactly the point the OP is making. Any dog can go psycho given the right (wrong?) situation, but the point is most dogs are easy to control if/when they do go off the rails. Not only are XL Bullies notoriously difficult to control if/when they go off the rails, their bites are one of the worst, which is a very dangerous combination of factors that is unique to this breed and not many others.
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u/avic_lover Jan 28 '24
While I understand peoples concerns over XL bully’s the reality is that we don’t have an ethical solution to the problem the banned breeds list is woefully ineffective all it really achieves is criminalising owners and decreasing welfare conditions for these dogs
I would be potentially be in support of the ban if they where overhauling the banned breeds legislation but as it stands banning them will do more harm than good, the ban also poses a real risk to all of us working in veterinary care I’ve received death threats at work because people have jumped to the conclusion that we as vet workers will be mass euthanising XL bullies
It would take too long to write out here but I heavily encourage people to look into the banned breeds list and read about what constitutes a “banned breed” as classification is not based on genetic lineage it’s based on body measurements, your staffy could be seized as an XL bully if it’s got the wrong measurements
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u/FoolofaTookfromabook Jan 28 '24
You need one driver's licence to drive a moped or a car, and another more advanced one for a heavy goods vehicle or bus... It's my understanding this is because they are bigger, heavier, operate slightly differently and if things go wrong, they can do far far more damage. Same with a highly muscular/aggressive/prey driven dog, especially one that can weigh more than its owner. There are absolutely people who are qualified to own XL bullies and other breeds, and have a relationship that's good for both dog and owner. But honestly, the amount of owners who don't handle or train dogs of any size right is gobsmacking. Doing it wrong with a XL could have horrendous consequences. If your dog cannot respond well to recall, reacts badly to being around dogs or people, it's your responsibility. Don't get me wrong. I'm a dog lover but I know I don't have the energy or time or money to train one and exercise them so I don't own one at the moment. I wish other people would make the same responsible call and not let sentimentality, FOMO or novelty dictate their pet ownership.
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u/DarthKasei Jan 28 '24
My neighbour has 2 XL bullies and I often see them taking him for a walk, he’s a strong well built ex-pro kick boxer and he really struggles to keep control of them, and they bark at absolutely everything and everyone. One day the male was barking the head off and growling at me just for coming out my front door, neighbour had a try to say he’s a big softie but one look in it’s eyes told me, it would have gone at me if he hadn’t been pulling it back on the leash.
As a result we’ve adopted the approach that if we’re heading out and he’s out there with the dogs we tend to wait until they’ve gone.
I don’t think big dogs are necessarily a problem, just this breed, I have a mate with a Bernese mountain dog, it’s fecking huge, but it’s as soft as butter, he barks at strangers but one look in his eyes tells you it’s all bluster, and he tends to come round quite quickly and goes from barking to tail wagging.
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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '24
I love dogs. Generally would always blame the owners, but these things are tanks.
The measures introduced are correct. All should be neutered, muzzled, and on a lead - if they escape from your home you should be banned from dog ownership.
If you won’t do that, they have to be euthanised. No more should be sold or bred in Britain.