r/Scotland • u/dnemonicterrier • 21d ago
Shitpost How I feel after reading that New York Post article
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u/El_Scot 21d ago
I can't take anyone who uses the word "woke" that much seriously.
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u/giant_sloth 21d ago
Anybody that uses that term unironically gets their opinions immediately disregarded by me.
The term has become a lightning rod for idiots.
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u/ShivasRightFoot 21d ago
Anybody that uses that term unironically gets their opinions immediately disregarded by me.
Here Barack Obama uses the term "woke" to disparage extreme and unproductive political purity from the left:
You know this idea of purity and you're never compromised and you're always politically woke and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaHLd8de6nM
He again used the term to describe exclusionary extreme leftism just last December:
It is not about abandoning your convictions and folding when things get tough, it is about recognizing that in a democracy power comes from forging alliances and building coalitions and making room in those coalitions not only for the woke but also for the waking.
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u/DracoLunaris 21d ago
Not a great counter argument tbh. Particularity given that Obama's "they go low we go high" stance which he's talking about there is exactly why the Dems have so utterly failed to counter the rise of Trump.
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u/ShivasRightFoot 21d ago
Not a great counter argument tbh.
Barack Obama is the most historically significant English speaking Black person alive. His usage of Woke holds heavy weight for all English speakers, or even people interested in how the word Woke is used in English.
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u/DracoLunaris 21d ago
Yes, it heavily empathizes how even a great orator like Obama can be an absolute moron. He is espousing the virtue of standing for nothing which is, as noted, exactly why the American center has so utterly failed to stand against the far right. Using the language of said far right and using it to punch left is a perfect demonstration of how that failure occurred.
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u/Cu_Chulainn__ 20d ago
Barack Obama is the most historically significant English speaking Black person alive.
This does not exclude him from having opinions which are wrong.
His usage of Woke holds heavy weight for all English speakers, or even people interested in how the word Woke is used in English.
It doesn't.
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u/A6M_Zero 21d ago
Your argument appears to be based on the notion that Obama wasn't a manipulative cunt.
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
Agreed as a gamer it's such an overused word for when someone doesn't like a video-game.
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u/warm_golden_muff 21d ago
If you don’t like it, don’t play it. And STFU 😺
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
That's exactly what I do, I only play games that I like and if I'm going to criticise something I don't overuse a buzzword to try and be in with a bunch of wallopers who hate every video-game that comes out because they just want to be angry.
It's sad to see people try to ruin a hobby for many because they don't have the capacity to criticise something properly without the using a buzzword.
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u/warm_golden_muff 21d ago
Mental innit. I was 9 when the Super Nintendo came out, we got our news from magazines. It’s just a game!
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
Yeah you're right, it's just a game, I know there's quite a few things that are wrong with it like pay to win transactions but video gamers have got such a wide variety of games to play that I'm spoiled for choice for things to play, I'm 42 years old and I love games like Helldivers 2 and Final Fantasy to name but a few, I hope I'm still gaming when I hit my 80s.
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u/consequences_not_I 21d ago
I'm sixty and showing no signs of slowing down in the carry on gaming aspect of it. I take things a bit slower when I play now though I'll complete a game on normal difficulty and if I really like the game, I'll do my next play through on easy mode. Life is tooooooo short for stressing over a game. Keep at it, it's very rewarding as you know.
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u/warm_golden_muff 21d ago
We’re the same age. I had a long break from gaming, so I missed some generations. That means for me, “old” games are new enough. Granted, it’s all about Zelda for me so those issues you refer to are irrelevant to me.
Getting upset about things, getting upset about anything, is no good for a person. It shouldn’t take 4 decades to come to terms with that
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
I never stopped gaming once I started, my first console and I don't know if I can call it that was a Spectrum ZX and now I'm still enjoying gaming.
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u/consequences_not_I 21d ago
Long time gamer of many decades here. I wonder what would happen if tomb raider was released in this day and age?
I reckon they'd lose their collective shit
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u/UltraSwat 20d ago
They did with Shadow. Lara was given toned arms and they threw a fit and got muscular lara croft removed
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u/Crash_Revenge 21d ago
I feel the irony is, the people I hear most complaining about how everything is unfair and how oppressed they are - sounding like real snowflakes are all right winged loons. The people that need their religion validated by everyone and they need free speech, should I say hate speech? They scream when people have the audacity to use free speech against them… kinda ironic really.
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u/a-new-year-a-new-ac 21d ago
Well, it’s ten to 2 on a Saturday night (Sunday morning?) are you woken up? Unless you follow formula 1 which starts in 2 hours
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u/haggisneepsnfatties 21d ago
I thought it was just another sea owl post tbh
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u/jaredearle 21d ago
The article was written by Brendan O’Neill), a well known fud.
He was editor of Spiked and by looks to be trying to win favour with the Trumpists.
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
I had no idea what spiked was after you mentioned it and as soon as I saw that they published a ridiculous article about how "Trump isn't a Russian asset" I quickly learned what they are.
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u/jaredearle 21d ago
Another important figure in Spiked’s history is The Right Honourable The Baroness Fox of Buckley, former revolutionary Marxist and now a life peer.
They’re a nasty lot who were very vocal in the run up to, and the aftermath of, Brexit.
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u/PreferenceAnxious449 21d ago
ridiculous article about how "Trump isn't a Russian asset" I quickly learned what they are
What are they? And what are you?
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
You have Google, go find out what Spiked is and what I am is none of your business.
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u/PreferenceAnxious449 21d ago
https://www.spiked-online.com/about-spiked/
I googled it, now what?
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
Figure it out yourself.
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u/PreferenceAnxious449 21d ago
Why are you being so fucking awkward, you implied you know something - you're not fucking Yoda, you could just answer the question.
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
Why am I being awkward? You came on here with "who are you" pish, I'm not in the mood for that type crap. You made this situation awkward with the way that you started this conversation with me.
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21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
It took you 8 hours to think of a retort and that's the best you can come up, saying "oh you're angry"? Your patter is
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u/glasgowgeg 21d ago
The article was written by Brendan O’Neill), a well known fud.
Always funny seeing all the Brendan's be posted in response to any of his shite Spectator articles on twitter.
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u/AwarenessWorth5827 21d ago
I recognised the name but was not sure why. Thanks for the reminder.
Utter pointless fanny of a man
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u/Harry_Mopper 21d ago
Ok making a Simpson's reference has calmed me down
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u/1RegalBeagle 21d ago
I get all my news from r/simpsonsshitposting
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u/Harry_Mopper 21d ago
I feel even better knowing that someone else does this
There's more than just celebrity deaths on there.
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u/Tiny_Woodpecker1785 21d ago
Just because our economy isn’t crashing and burning to the ground, they have to throw shade somewhere. At least we don’t have to spend $50 on a bagel ✌️
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u/lrnscissorhands_ 21d ago
Honestly love being called woke. So we’re empathetic and inclusive? Sounds good to me.
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u/SoylentJuice 21d ago
Anyone who uses "woke" as a pejorative outs themselves as complete fuds.
It's like a stamp on their heads that says "idiot".
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u/Think_Treacle_2348 21d ago
A room full of two divided sides screaming 'idiot' at each other. I'm sitting thinking each are fuds.
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u/SoylentJuice 21d ago
One side believes that "alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination" is a good thing and one side doesn't.
I'm very comfortable calling those who would want racism to go uncontested idiots.
Trying to equate each side, when one is so obviously motivated by hatred, is a fallacy.
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u/Think_Treacle_2348 21d ago
I'm sure the other side says all that too as you call each other the bad guys instead of focusing on your sames.
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u/gummybear0068 21d ago
Because there are no sames you smooth brained enlightened centrist, these days there are people who believe in the marketplace of ideas & there are people who would rather machine gun you into a ditch than let you be who you are. They are not equal, now please fuck off
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u/Cu_Chulainn__ 20d ago
One side wants equality, the other does not. What sames are there? Should we bond over our love of beer? Should I sit at a table with someone who believes that black people are inferior? Why would I want to find common ground with someone who wants to deport everyone non-white?
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u/Think_Treacle_2348 20d ago
It's only common ground which inspires change. Keep trying to scream 'hateful idiot!' At people and keep seeing their view emboldened as a result.
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u/FMEightyOne 21d ago
Remeber when ‘woke’ first appeared and it basically meant you were a guid cunt?
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u/PositiveLibrary7032 21d ago
There are Americans literally wanting to come here because of the ways things are going over there. If thats ‘woke’ then I’ll gladly keep that over the orange frump they have in office.
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u/HockeyDad1121 21d ago
The opinion about Scotland in this article is written by a Brit, not an American
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21d ago
Murdoch rag. Shut it down
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u/twistedLucidity Better Apart 21d ago edited 21d ago
OOTL here.
What New York Post article? I've scrolled down a ways and I don't see one.
Edit: Link to article, if you hit a page block try this link. Formatting is a bit borked on that second one.
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
Here's a link for you, you'll get a good laugh out of it, I know I did. https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/s/kZcblCUNfr
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u/twistedLucidity Better Apart 21d ago
Thanks! I added some links to my post to the original article, much easier to read.
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u/polaires 21d ago edited 21d ago
How I feel after reading anything by British nationalists recently.
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u/GlengarryHighlands 21d ago
I hope people in Scotland start realising the similarities between the Trump administration and the Unionist arguments.
Trump administration to Canada: You wouldn't exist without us. We subsidise you. You aren't grateful
Unionist to Scotland: The same, except we've been saying it to you for decades, and most of you already believe it by now
Using trans & DEI as a wedge issue too.
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u/KirstyBaba 21d ago
This is an important point. The global right-wing are all drawing from the same thinkers, the same playbooks, the same funders. They might wear a slightly different skin in each country, but they are fundamentally all the same, and want the same things. The good thing about this is we can learn how to combat them by observing what happens elsewhere. Far too often in UK subs do I see people bemoan talking about anything going on in the US, when Farage is just another avatar of the same forces.
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u/monkey_spanners 21d ago
And independence arguments are the same ones that ukip/brexiters used about the EU...
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u/DeathOfNormality 21d ago
Try the other way around.... Which campaign came first? I could be wrong, but pretty sure the Indy ref was first and the brexit cunts copied a lot of it after lying about why we were better together in Europe as the UK.
But yeah funny you mentioned that, as I remember first seeing the brexit campaign ads and genuinely laughing at how much they copied the same rhetoric.
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u/ArthurCartholmes 21d ago
The trouble with this is that the arguments for independence are also extremely similar to those trotted out in support of Brexit. National sovereignty, take back our oil, get rid of the London bureaucracy, etc.
In terms of psychology, I'd say Scottish nationalism has a lot more in common with Trumpism and Brexit than a lot of Scots are comfortable admitting. Just look at the emergence of Alba and Katie Forbes.
What it all boils down to is magical-thinking. If you look at Scotland's revenue vs its expenditure, the mathematics just don't work. Any independent Scottish government would have to make cuts to expenditure that would make life hell.
In the current international climate, it would also be under enormous pressure from the EU to let the UK retain naval bases for Trident, as the UK is now the only pro-Ukraine state besides France that has a nuclear deterrent. If Scotland didn't allow this, the EU would be all but guaranteed to refuse its application.
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u/13oundary 21d ago
What it all boils down to is magical-thinking. If you look at Scotland's revenue vs its expenditure, the mathematics just don't work. Any independent Scottish government would have to make cuts to expenditure that would make life hell.
I don't think anyone is out here saying life in New Zealand is hell and they have similar GDP and expendatures. So what figures are you using for revenue vs expenditure that make it look like we'd be in hell?
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u/ArthurCartholmes 21d ago
Not really comparable. Scotland's great economic strength was in shipbuilding and ports, and that's basically gone. New Zealand's prosperity is rooted in agriculture and education - it is a much, much larger and more geographically diverse country than Scotland, and it developed its economic structure in geographic isolation. Scotland, despite having a similar GDP, is still heavily reliant on subsidies from London just to keep things going.
Secondly, the current GDP of Scotland is heavily dependent on its continued relationship with the rest of the UK. I think most people don't realise just how fundamentally interdependent Scotland and England are at every level. Drawing a hard border across Lothian would hit the economies of both countries very badly.
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u/13oundary 21d ago
Ship building and ports have been gone for a lifetime... Like it couldn't be less relevant to current Scotland's GDP so much so that I'm confused as to why you've mentioned it.
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u/ArthurCartholmes 21d ago
Because the legacy of its loss is still there, and nothing has sprung up to replace it.
As for the figures you asked for? Well for starters, Scotlands tax revenue in 2022-23 was 87.5 billion pounds, while its public expenditure was 106.6 billion pounds. Might not seem like big difference, but when you factor in how much of that is running costs, it's huge.
An independent Scotland would have to find an extra 10 billion pounds a year just to keep things running, let alone provide the investment the infrastructure badly needs.
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u/DeathOfNormality 21d ago
Fuck right off. The Indy ref campaign never tried to insite violence, racism or identity politics. It didn't run a smear campaign to my memory (granted there could have been but generally wasn't the SNP style and we didn't have an "opposition" it was a yes or no answer, not pick a team) and Alba is a sad off branch last stand of Salmond, who was a slimy git. No one takes the Alba party seriously. Also brexit campaign wanted more power from Brussels, their whole existence is Westminster. The fact you say "London bureaucracy" is a huge red flag you're talking pish or anecdotally.
The Scottish independence referendum happened first, and although it was a close call, didn't happen due to people wanting to stay within the European Union as a major sway, others didn't vote, and even more just weren't informed enough to make a real decision, so stuck with the status quo, "if it ain't broke" etc.
We were lied to.
Brexit campaign happens, and all of a sudden, we start hearing the same shit as we tried to argue for our own break away from Westminster.
We are all still pissed and Scotland as a country is pro EU and can't wait to get back.
Something is telling me you're either really young, not from here, or live under a twisted rock to think the Indy ref yes voters are akin to trump supporters. (Also I'm unsure who Katie Forbes is/have forgotten their name, so gonna check that out shortly, but I doubt it will be enough to make the mental leaps in logic true)
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u/ArthurCartholmes 21d ago
Okay, so you're immediately resorting to insults, which validates my entire point. Like many Brexiters I've met, you can't see someone criticising your views without getting angry and resorting to swearing.
If your argument truly is based in facts and logic, show me a report by a respected international study group that conclusively shows Scotland will thrive outside the UK, will not significantly disrupt wider European security, and will not have to go through a long and painful process of disentanglement from over 300 years of union.
You can't, because there isn't one. All you have is that you just can't stand being in the same country as the English.
I mean for Christ's sake mate, read the room. We are facing war with a fascist regime led by a genocidal maniac on one hand, and betrayal by an oligarchy led by an obese mutant Cheeto on the other, and you're still angry about something that happened in 1707.
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u/DeathOfNormality 21d ago
Are you calling me a brexiteer? Because that's insulting haha. But nah I didn't try and insult you, it's just blunt talk, so by taking fuck off as an insult, your probably not Scottish. I just laid out the history in how we are nothing like the trump supporters. I didn't mention anything to do with saying going independent would have been fruitful for the country or not.
Look I have a feeling you're replying to a different comment, because mine was to say the Indy ref campaign, and those like myself who voted yes, are nothing like trump supporters, if you weren't there, I can see how the smear papers and articles about SNP made it look like we are all English hating fannies, but truth is the Scottish people were just very done with the Torry rule and historically being shat on. I never mentioned anything about the pros and cons of independence bro, facts are it is history, so there's no point in saying if Scotland can make it or not. But just got fun, my honest opinion is that Brexit has done more harm to Scotland than going independent ever would have. You're welcome.
Maybe take a breather and figure out what you're trying to say.
But yeah, I'm still mad that my family and others were lied to by politicians. They should be held accountable, all of them should. Politicians should be forced to speak more plainly and move away from the style of the Tangerine Tosser, which is 10 parts waffle, 2 parts bigotry, 1 part "but I'm doing better than him" and 5 parts MURICA. All it leads to is people tuning into what they want to hear and it's bullshit.
Edit: I also just wanted to make the point that the brexit campaign used a lot of the same rhetoric that Indy ref did. Like fml why make it about if Scotland can make it or not. Ships sailed mate.
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u/ArthurCartholmes 21d ago
... So you're telling me we've been agreeing with each other this entire time?
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u/DeathOfNormality 20d ago
Only partially I think. But no worries, it's good to air out opinions, but absolutely good to take a breather at times and take a wee step back. I'm pretty sure we both just got a little riled up and looking for a reason to be pissed hah. So apologies as well if I read you wrong.
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u/ArthurCartholmes 21d ago
And for what it's worth I didn't mean to imply that you were Brexiter - I would never level that accusation against someone who didn't deserve it.
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u/DeathOfNormality 20d ago
Thanks hah. Always save that one for the worst.
But no worries, it's easy to get worse crossed in a heated discussion.
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u/TechnologyNational71 21d ago
Surely the nationalists can find a strong counter argument for that? If it’s not true.
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u/JeelyPiece 21d ago
It's not an argument in the first place. There is no need to counter it, just discount it for the feeble minded noisemaking that it is
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u/TechnologyNational71 21d ago
That’ll get things over the line, eh?
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u/JeelyPiece 21d ago
You believe it?
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u/TechnologyNational71 21d ago
We’re not focusing on that.
If there is no counter argument to something that is a winning position, it’s either true, or the alternative is worse and they don’t have answers to win over the doubters.
Putting your head in the sand won’t help.
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u/JeelyPiece 21d ago
That's what you believe?!
No wonder you believe all that feeble minded noisemaking.
Clearly you are incapable of reasoning and you should be deported to raise the intelligence of Scotland.
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u/TechnologyNational71 21d ago
You seem to have poor reading comprehension.
At no point in that response did I confirm or deny my position.
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u/JeelyPiece 21d ago
You have at no point thanked Scotland, not once, in this entire conversation
You hold none of the cards. If you thank Scotland then maybe you'll have some of the cards
But with this ingratitude, you should be sent back to where you came from
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u/DeathOfNormality 21d ago
It genuinely took me too long to see what you were doing. It actually angers me that I know what this is a reference to now. I hate that man is everywhere. Genuinely feel a lot better for avoiding the front page of reddit and news outlets.
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u/TechnologyNational71 21d ago
You have at no point provided anything as a response against the winning position other than personal attacks and putting your head in the sand.
Good luck the next time (if ever) a referendum comes up on Scottish independence.
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u/Muted_Lack_1047 21d ago
Its just a tabloid rag.
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
But it gave me a good laugh, look at how wound up they are by two countries.
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u/peter_teefax 20d ago
I'm asking the same question as Hans lol. I must have missed 60 minutes what are you saying? What article was it about Trump?
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u/RecentImportance 21d ago
There are plenty of people in Scotland who seek the "lefty authoritarianism" when it benefits them, but these people are just as bigoted when it comes to immigrant, sexuality and gender issues themselves.
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u/DasGutYa 21d ago
It was an opinion piece,
If you feel like a newspaper should be silencing opinions, you're not proving it wrong are you?
Why don't you write in your own opinion piece as a counter?
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
Point out to me where I said that the entire newspaper should be silenced, where did I say that Karen?
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u/DasGutYa 21d ago
Point out to me where I said you want the entire newspaper to be silenced?
Where did I say that Karen?
You have become the people you hate, good luck.
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u/KirstyBaba 21d ago
Sounds like you never hated them in the first place tbh
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u/DasGutYa 21d ago
No, I don't hate either side of this idiotic culture war I simply pity them. It allows me to form an opinion after reading instead of before.
A bunch of half-truths turned popularist battlegrounds endlessly escalating the vitriol of the other side until one attains the only kind of power it feels can generate victory - absolute power.
We are repeating the rise of fascism in the 20s and 30s, and no one wants to put the breaks on for fear they may be 'wrong'.
Shame on hatred being your barrier to entry. It missed my entire point.
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u/KirstyBaba 21d ago
I think we broadly agree about the problem but it's very clear that one side is the main onstigator and driver of fascism and everything else is a reaction to that. The sides as they are often drawn are quite misleading too- are we talking neoliberals vs. fascists or annoying tumblr girlies online vs. white supremacy and capital?
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u/DasGutYa 21d ago
I think here and now one side is absolutely the instigator but they didn't start in that position.
Early boycotting of companies in order to further political agendas was largely a function of the extremely vocal players of identity politics at first, especially writing in to employers about employees that were vocal against certain topics, hounding on social media for people's jobs.
Now we see the result in the U.S, a right so emboldened by this normalisation of behaviour that they can take it to an extreme that only they can.
I have no doubt early activists in 2010 thought they were fighting on the moral high ground, but their methods have created a monster.
Capitalist ventures were never going to willingly allow sections of the public to dictate to them their own philosophy whether right of wrong, now they are securing a position in which whatever the company says, goes.
In the end, the early activism and resurgence in rights groups in the late 2000s was something that needed to happen in order to push forward further societal progress. But the methods employed by a minority in those movements has given rise to a level of response from the right I don't think they ever envisioned. A lack of truly cohesive goals and intentions in movements such as modern feminism only exacerbated the problem.
'The road to evil is paved with good intentions' has never seemed more apt than to describe the current crisis.
Our hubris in the success of progressive movements throughout our modern history led us to believe we needed no brakes or checks, that dissenting opinion could easily be bypassed and would change within a few short years.
It was a major miscalculation.
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u/coxr780 Dundee 21d ago
I think you've mythologised a lot of things from snippets of what's still relevant.
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u/DasGutYa 21d ago
Well we'll never know, because the only answers to this are 'na wrong' from people that want to justify their respective side.
The discussion just doesn't happen, no brakes. Only right or wrong.
Totalitarian inevitability.
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
And you'll always be a fuckin twat who decided to nitpick and exaggerate about a meme that criticised one article from The New York Post.
The people I hate? You think I'm angry at that article? Please take yer haverin elsewhere.
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u/DasGutYa 21d ago
'fuckin twat'
'exaggerate about a meme'
You're both angry and hateful, there's no disputing that. Again, look in a mirror, the others idea is in you.
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u/dnemonicterrier 21d ago
Calling you a fucking twat doesn't mean that I'm angry, it simply means that I'm too lazy to think up a really good insult for you so I just decided to put two swear words together to describe you and boy has it worked.
If there's anyone here who needs to "look in a mirror" about getting angry it's you.
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u/SmallQuasar 21d ago
Christ you're a daft fucking cunt, eh?
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u/GingerSnapBiscuit 21d ago
Why don't you write in your own opinion piece as a counter?
This is such a fucking stupid argument. Obviously this person was paid to write an opinion piece, which was placed prominently in the paper as it fit the agenda of the editor who was peddling it. I could write an opposing opinion piece, sure, but the odds of it being published are so close to zero as to be indistinguishable from it.
This fox news esque "its an opinion so you aren't allowed to be mad at us from airing it" argument takes away from the fact that the opinions of everyone shown in the paper/on that channel seem to align somehow, almost as if they are selected entirely because their opinion is what the paper wants to push.
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u/MsBobbyJenkins 21d ago
As the fantastic Kathy Burke said -
"I love being woke. Its much better than being an ignorant fucking twat"