r/Scotland 1d ago

Political Jamie Greene joins Scottish Liberal Democrats after quitting Tories

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25065058.jamie-greene-joins-scottish-liberal-democrats/
35 Upvotes

44 comments sorted by

37

u/Real-Equivalent9806 1d ago

It feels wrong for list MSPs to change parties. When you vote on the regional ballot, your explicitly voting for the party, not for an individual candidate. Also I'm curious I know if a list MSP resigns, then the person that was below them gets elected; does that still imply if they change parties?

6

u/SaltTyre 1d ago

My thoughts exactly, I think the answer’s no though unfortunately. No indication Greene loses his seats by doing this, if so then no benefit for the Lib Dems

6

u/Memetic_Grifter 1d ago

Just 1 more reason to use STV for elections

2

u/Didymograptus2 1d ago

Once a list MSP gets elected they remain until their term expires, they die or until they resign. If they resign or die then the next person on the list normally becomes an MSP. If they leave the party they were elected under then they remain an MSP, but it would be incredibly dishonourable to join another party group instead of becoming an independent MSP, like John Finnie did.

1

u/Loreki 1d ago

The seat stays with the original party. If Mr Greene were pushed out of the Parliament tomorrow in some scandal or other, the next Conservative on the list would be appointed.

7

u/zellisgoatbond act yer age, not yer shoe size 1d ago

Does this have any particular implications re. group status? I recall that the threshold is 5 MSPs, but I might be mistaken or maybe it doesn't apply if MSPs change parties mid-term.

5

u/SaltTyre 1d ago

Aye, means they’ll get back onto the Bureau, can shape parly business and possibly get some committee seats

7

u/Stuspawton 1d ago

Still wouldn’t trust the cunt to run a bath, let alone represent constituents.

16

u/Kimbobbins 1d ago

Not sure where this orange/yellow Tories narrative sprang up from

Lib Dems are further left than Labour, now more than ever, Greene is socially Liberal, Lib Dems makes sense

No doubt this place will be full of transphobes/Tories calling him the worst person ever by tonight

8

u/shugthedug3 1d ago

What Lib Dems say and what Lib Dems do are completely different things.

Don't fall for them.

3

u/The_Bunglenator 1d ago

Policies are definitely to the left of labour as of right now but LD still on a big push to convert soft Tory voters to LD.

3

u/Kimbobbins 1d ago

Labour did the same and annihilated 15 years of Tory dominance, basically becoming Tories in the process, mind

0

u/The_Bunglenator 1d ago

Yeah IDD. Lab and Tory both on some sort of rearguard action to both fight off and consume the far right in equal measure.

1

u/First-Banana-4278 1d ago

The Orange book.

1

u/foolishbuilder 14h ago

In theory Scottish Conservatives traditionally were slightly more left on social issues than the Tory reputation gives credit.

A family member (i won't dox myself by saying who) had an absolute public barney with Thatcher and after attempts to silence him, he stepped over the isle to SLDP

It is actually a more natural transition for a true traditional Scottish Conservative (not a Londoncentric Tory) The Libs suffered purely because of the Post War Trade Union movement being inextricably linked with the Labour Party. And the Latter taking sole credit for the post war Social reforms designed by Keynes and planned by the Libs and funded by the USA on loans. The USA viewed this as a betrayal, and started to undermine the UK, on foreign policy that they had previously been supportive of, flooding the market with GBP every time we tried to protect our interests.

Scottish Conservative and The Lib dems started to come more into line again under Ashdown, but any similarity was completely annihilated under Clegg.

You still see glimmers of Scottish Conservatism at council level but it seems to evaporate the closer to the trough they get.

2

u/shugthedug3 1d ago

Almost got the headline right.

Should be "Jamie Greene joins Liberal Democrats after quitting Tories"

8

u/Successful_Ad_2888 1d ago

ACH embracing Tories shockeroonie

4

u/Kimbobbins 1d ago

Lib Dems embracing the Socially Liberal, shock horror

0

u/quartersessions 1d ago

Kinda what you're supposed to be doing in politics: appealing to people who support other parties.

4

u/Purple_Hex 1d ago

I'd rather parties stood on solid well-defined principles and policy positions. Sure, work with others where there is common ground, but becoming flexible to the point of welcoming Tories just makes it all a bit pointless.

3

u/quartersessions 1d ago

I'd rather parties stood on solid well-defined principles and policy positions.

Great. You can join the Socialist Party of Great Britain - they've got no leader, they've never saved a deposit in any election, but they're certainly ideologically pure. You need to pass a test on ideology to become a member.

but becoming flexible to the point of welcoming Tories just makes it all a bit pointless.

I'd point out the Liberals have been working with the Tories for decades. The Tories are formally the Conservative and Unionist Party because they absorbed a large part of the Liberals. For decades they worked together in local government where liberals and conservatives stood as anti-socialist Progressives and Moderates.

1

u/foolishbuilder 14h ago

This is bang on, particularly in Scotland where traditional Scottish Conservatism has a social conscience. those similarities have existed for more than a few decades, More than Half a century at least.

3

u/unix_nerd 1d ago

Liberals, sort of a cuddlier version of the Tories?

6

u/shoogliestpeg 1d ago

They've a history of working with tories after all and being the party tories joined when their own party was too odious for them.

2

u/foolishbuilder 14h ago

founded by such Tickle monsters as Oliver Cromwell and the gentle manner in which he put monarchists to sleep.

3

u/Content_Barracuda294 1d ago

Nah, you’re thinking of the Labour Party.

-2

u/shugthedug3 1d ago

Lib Dem has long been the way for Tories to vote Tory without voting Tory.

-2

u/Sorry-Transition-780 1d ago edited 1d ago

Pride flag thatcherites is the term that gets banded around lmao

I mean, it's probably a bit harsh. But the austerity coalition probably did trump the idea that lib Dems actually believe in anything and aren't just "left of the Tories" political weathervanes.

I guess they've been reborn a bit with this new "tax the wealthy a little + EU" platform, but with a literal coalition minister in charge of the national party, I find it hard to believe they aren't still subscribed to the same ideological framework in a "cuddlier" package.

1

u/watanabe0 1d ago

And they took him.

1

u/Elith2 1d ago

I will always find it strange when political parties accept members from other parties that they should technically not have much in common with. Do the Lib Dems not see how badly this reads?

There were a few Tories moving to Labour at the end of the last parliament, and I always thought it was a bit tone deaf on the run up to election when you're trying to convince people you're definitely not like them, by letting them into the party.

1

u/Loreki 1d ago

This always confuses me. Why would the party want a deflector? Welcoming them is just an admission that you are so close to the opposing party that politicians can comfortably go back and forth.

1

u/WiseAssNo1 1d ago

A Tory Brexiteer now joining the pro-europe Lib-Dems........ just like that.

0

u/Polarpsyker 1d ago

I’m a bit out of the loop with this guy, does this even make any sense?

10

u/vaivai22 1d ago

Greene has a record of being fairly socially liberal - voting for things like the Gender Recognition (Reform) Bill - so it’s not a shock that when he joined a different party it would be the Lib Dems.

A key question will be if he stands at the next election, I think.

1

u/Available-Brick-8855 8h ago

Sorry for answering this late but the Lib Dems registration deadline to apply for Holyrood Lists past last week and the party has so many committees it would have to go through to give him a pass that it wouldn't be worth doing, so he's out in 26.

6

u/Vasquerade 1d ago

Depending on who you ask, Jamie Greene is either the least sound decent guy you'll ever meet or the most sound arsehole you'll ever meet. So it fits more or less

0

u/Ghalldachd 1d ago

Yeah. He's from the centrist wing of the Conservative Party so he'd fit in with the right-wing of the Liberal Democrats. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

0

u/Nehaline 1d ago

The former Scottish Conservative MSP Jamie Greene has crossed the floor and joined the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

The announcement was made during the Scottish Lib Dems' Spring Conference.

There are no rules preventing Mr Greene from crossing the floor in the Scottish Parliament.

The news comes after The Herald spoke to a Lib Dem insider who said their party would be open to working with the former Tory MSP if he does "right" by Scots.

An MSP for the West of Scotland, Mr Greene quit the Scottish Conservatives yesterday after claiming his former party was now following a “Reform-lite agenda” and the "modern party" he used to be a member of "simply no longer exists".

Lib Dem party leader Alex Cole-Hamilton previously praised Mr Greene for his "courage" in leaving the Conservatives and for doing, as he addressed the MSP, "what you think is right".

Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay since said he was "disappointed" at Mr Greene's decision to leave his former party.

On X yesterday, Mr Greene posted this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt alongside his resignation letter: "Do what you feel in your heart to be right, for you'll be criticized anyway.”

0

u/i-readit2 1d ago

Would he not be better joining the tartan tories. The Labour Party. More politically aligned I would think

0

u/Didymograptus2 1d ago

Just proving that the Lib Dem’s are no more than yellow Tories in Scotland.

-3

u/shugthedug3 1d ago

Blue Tories to Orange Tories.

There's no appreciable difference between them, certainly nothing major.

0

u/corndoog 1d ago

Do lib dems get to take part in FMQ yet? 🤯

-1

u/PhysicalWave454 1d ago

I love how the tories, lib dems and labour are just so interchangeable these days. The 3 parties are all the same, and all answer to their bosses in London. Fuck this "union of equals"