r/Scotland • u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 • 1d ago
Political Glasgow-styled drug consumption rooms must be opened across Scotland 'to stop people dying' [says Alex Cole-Hamilton]
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgow-styled-drug-consumption-rooms-3136043449
u/GhostPantherNiall 1d ago
Bloody hell, how do I post that meme about the worst person making a good point?Â
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u/gbroon 1d ago
They aren't a full solution, I don't think there is a foolproof solution, but they are at least helpful in saving lives.
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u/Vikingstein 1d ago
Mental health is a joke in the UK, and mental healthcare doesn't get enough funding.
This is the best solution to save lives, but mostly because the UK underfunds mental health support to a massive degree.
People with ADHD have a much larger proclivity for addiction, yet the waiting list as an adult in much of the country is years, usually over 5-6. This is while more and more GPs are refusing to take private referrals. Coupled with medication shortages, putting people into desperate situations.
We're on the edge of a mental health crisis in the UK, and it's only going to get worse.
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u/Firegoddess66 1d ago
Yes, the UK mental health support is shit..
Got PTSD, great go on a waiting list.
Well call you every 6 months and ask you the same upsetting questions in different ways for 2 hours and never tell you if you've moved up the waiting list.
Rise and repeat for 3 years as your PTSD gets worse and worse then finally...
Yay you have been selected for PTSD trauma counselling...a whole 8 sessions....
Still not over your complex PTSD, tough tits you've had your lot.
It's bonkers, pure idiocy and yet...we have no other options because private help costs 100 quid per session.
Call a crisis line, the ones open are not equipped for PTSD, the ones that are equipped are area specific and in your area they are open every third Thursday between 4pm and 5pm.
Based on my dear friend , still suffering, nowhere to turn.
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u/Unfair_Original_2536 Nat-Pilled Jock 1d ago
I thought the Lib Dems were generally sound on drug policy, I'm sure thwy (at least at national level) support ending the prohibition of cannabis.
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u/purplecatchap 1d ago
Incoming the usual right wing nutters insisting that the only way to tackle problem around drugs is the same strategy we have been using for decades and clearly does not work i.e. locking folk up.
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u/SafetyKooky7837 1d ago
We haven’t been locking folk up. We have been reducing the policing to tackle drug dealers and giving them their methadone and free housing. Still no result. We have used the public approach for 2 decades now and nothing. They need rehab and major withdrawal units.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
Disagreeing with drug consumption rooms isn’t right wing.
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u/purplecatchap 1d ago
Yes but the default argument often thrown out is that we should punish drug addicts with prison which imo is right wing.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
Possession of drugs is illegal. Not saying somebody caught with a small amount of hard drugs for a first offence should be sent to Barlinnie, that’s counter productive, but the whole ‘legalise it all and people won’t take drugs anymore’ idea is just nonsense in my eyes.
I personally don’t think that’s anywhere near right wing.
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u/purplecatchap 1d ago
Its a fairly common trope within the right to want to punish people to fix them, well, im not even sure it if to fix them, seems to be punishment for punishment’s sake. Unsure what to say.
Plus, we know this doesn't work, we have decades upon decades of evidence from countries across the globe showing that this doesn't work. Ignoring evidence is something the right are often prone to do too (see opinions from the right on climate change, the economy, medicine etc) so again choosing to ignore an attempt to break what is clearly a broken system does mean this sort of thing could reasonably be argued as being a right wing stance.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
Laws are fundamental to any society. Punishing for punishings sake is about making there be a deterrent to crime. There has to be. Alternatives to custody where there hasn’t been any harm to a person, property or business etc is a good step in the right direction but there still has to be laws which can ultimately mean prison if broken repeatedly or blatantly.
I’m not ignoring the attempt, I’m saying that I don’t think it’s the right way forward and that it’s an unfair use of NHS budgets when there are areas far more in need and deserving. It also isn’t fair for the people who live near to the centre. You can’t deny there will be discarded needles and antisocial behaviour in and around this centre.
I’m sorry I just don’t think somebody that opposes safe consumption centres is automatically right wing.
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u/purplecatchap 1d ago
I’m sorry I just don’t think somebody that opposes safe consumption centres is automatically right wing.
And that's fair enough. But equally its fair for the rest of us to assume they are based on probability as most of the opposition does come from the right.
Anti vaxers tend to be way off to the right, but there is also a small subsection of nuts on the left who also don't trust them. The same could be said for a whole host of opinions, but it's reasonable to assume someone leans one way if that's where most of X opinion comes from.
Laws are fundamental to any society.
Laws are not set in stone. Laws change all the time and its not always a smooth, and clean process. People purposefully break laws to highlight they dont work, or break other laws to further a cause/a change in the law, protest, advocate, study/provide evidence etc.
that it’s an unfair use of NHS budgets when there are areas far more in need and deserving
So we spend more public money on policing, prison and anti-social issues. Plus we need to spend money on health anyway as people ODing still need treatment. At least this way, its controlled and attempts can be made to offer help to get them off the drugs in a non-threatening environment.
You can’t deny there will be discarded needles and antisocial behaviour in and around this centre.
I thought one of (among a few) the points of this scheme was to reduce people sharing needles, discarding them irresponsibly etc?
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u/jasonpswan 1d ago
No, but it's fucking moronic
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
Everyone’s entitled to an opinion.
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u/jasonpswan 1d ago
Indeed, and people like you deserve to be told that theirs is wrong.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
Such entitlement.
Willing to bet you don’t live near this place and that you believe everybody who takes hard drugs doesn’t want to take them.
Cute.
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u/jasonpswan 1d ago
Actually no.
I come from a family of addicts. Some are alcoholics, some were gambling addicts, and some took a metric fuckton of drugs.
Some of those who took drugs died due to them. I wish there had been a safe place for them to experiment or take them. Maybe then my cousins could have grown up with an uncle.
Now take your high horse and ride into the sunset.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
That’s a shame. It’s you on the high horse pal not me.
There must always be a safety net for people who end up in the grip of drugs and alcohol. Giving a taxpayer funded centre for them to do drugs at a time where through no fault of the people using the centre, we have to prioritise budget wise, isn’t the answer.
It’s not fair for people who live near these centres to have to tell the weans to step over discarded syringes on the way to school because people like you are too naive to see problems with the peace and love approach.
Whether you like it or not, you cannot help those who do not want to be helped.
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u/jasonpswan 1d ago
The whole point on the centre is that people don't need to inject in the street fs. It's not peace and love, it's management. Yes, there's a problem, instead of ignoring it like people like you would prefer, I suggest the new approach, of managing it, is preferable.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
On paper it sounds like it’d solve a lot of problems, I understand why you hold the view you do. I just disagree and that doesn’t make me right wing, like the OP insinuated it does.
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u/Beginning_Book_751 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why is that always the refuge of people with very stupid opinions instead of either 1) Attempting to defend them or 2) Listening to the people who know better.
Nobody challenged your right to think stupid shit but you don't have the right to not be criticised for thinking stupid shit.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
The condescending arrogance for anybody who doesn’t agree with you tells me you’re a bit of a wank.
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u/Beginning_Book_751 1d ago
Again, you can't even address what's being said to you, you just retreat to "Stop being mean to me!" like the cretinous coward you are.
I wouldn't have to condescend to you if you were capable of saying anything of substance.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
Mate you’re an anonymous online profile. You’re in no position to accuse anybody of cowardice.
I find people like you are just a mega drain of energy. I’ll debate others happily.
And for what it’s worth I’ve found people who give it Billy big bollocks online are the type to post ‘To the neds who called me a stinkin’ jobby on the bus today’ threads in the Glasgow sub instead of confronting them in person, like the cretinous cowards they are.
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u/Beginning_Book_751 1d ago
Actually I'm in the perfect position to call you a coward, since you just demonstrated cowardice twice in a row. Hope that helps.
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u/DINNERTIME_CUNT 1d ago
You’d rather have more drug deaths?
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
I’d rather the nhs budget was spent improving the service for those who keep it running.
Want a big reform in the drug recovery services we have on offer but I’m against drug consumption rooms personally.
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
You being in favour of a drugs consumption room isn’t nobel peace prize material. I guarantee if you stayed on the same street as this centre your tune would change rapidly.
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u/alittlelebowskiua People's Republic of Leith 1d ago
It's not, but since it's fucking stupid there's quite the overlap so you would understand the confusion.,
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
‘You disagree with me so you’re stupid’.
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u/alittlelebowskiua People's Republic of Leith 1d ago
I'd no argue with that.
You've said fuck all about why you disagree btw. Maybe if you did I would engage with it.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
I have in plenty of the other replies. Just don’t bother with cunts who are blinded by arrogance.
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u/IRequireRestarting 1d ago
What about drug consumption rooms do you not agree with?
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
Don’t think they’re the right answer. We need to drastically reform our drugs recovery services but saying ‘here’s a taxpayer funded room for you to do drugs in’ isn’t the fucking answer.
People imagine those using these facilities being grateful and it maybe being a stepping stone for those individuals to seek the help they need and reintegrate back into society. That’s almost never the case. A lot of the people frequenting these places don’t want to get back on the ladder or to accept help they’re given. They certainly won’t give two shits about discarding needles or generally being cunts in and around the centre.
People will agree and disagree on this topic. I just don’t think this is the answer, why should people who don’t take drugs pay a price for those who do (and sadly have no desire to stop doing them). There must always be a way back into society for anybody who ends up with a drug addiction, but just accepting people taking drugs isn’t the answer, for me anyway.
And for all those who are going to accuse me of being right wing, stupid and whatever else. Save your fucking breath. I’ve seen good pals go down dark paths they’l never likely come back up, it doesn’t change my opinion that outside of drug rehabilitation services, that drug addicts should be prioritised and given a place to do hard drugs at a time where our healthcare budget is on its arse.
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u/MindlessWoot 1d ago
why should people who don’t take drugs pay a price for those who do
So you disagree with the National Health Service, then? The institution that will inevitably pick up the bill to rescue them from an overdose. The institution that will inevitably house them and care for them in a hospital bed, a hospital bed in high demand.
That's how it is, we'll always pick up the bill. We'll do it because it is right.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
That’s quite a stretch.
I’m sick of basic stuff that should be on the nhs being out of reach for anyone that doesn’t pay to go private. The healthcare budget is stretched. It shouldn’t be given out so lavishly to drug addicts. That’s just my opinion. You disagree and you’ve went above some of the replies and explained why.
We’ll have to agree to disagree
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u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 1d ago
People imagine those using these facilities being grateful and it maybe being a stepping stone for those individuals to seek the help they need and reintegrate back into society. That’s almost never the case
It's true that It won't help everyone, but at the same time, insisting that it will help no one is not so accurate. The BBC did a piece on it recently, and it found that some users were passed on to other services. It's also helped prevent a number of overdoses, people who likely would have died without this place.
It's not a silver bullet, obviously, and requires adjacent investment into drug rehabilitation and mental health programs, but it is useful as part of a wider strategy.
A total of 27 people have been referred to other services, including housing, by staff.
David Clark has been using drugs for 26 years and has spent long periods of his life on the streets.
He allowed BBC Scotland to follow his progress over a three-month period as he attempted to move on from a city centre hostel and stop using heroin and cocaine.
The 47-year-old told Disclosure he used The Thistle service to inject cocaine in February. From there, staff referred him to new supported accommodation. At the time of his interview, he had been abstinent for two weeks.
He said: "When I went [to the consumption room], it wasn't what I expected. I thought you would go in, do what you're doing and out. But it's not like that. The members of staff in there supported me and helped me get to where I'm at now. It's helped me massively. I feel better in myself."
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
Im not saying it wouldn’t help anyone and im genuinely glad to read about the guy the bbc followed around. Sadly thats the minority, the majority will be utter cunts to anyone who lives near it.
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u/Glesganed 1d ago
I think drug consumption rooms are more about tackling the alarmingly high drug death rate in Scotland, than addressing the wider issues that drugs can have on the individual and society in general.
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u/CrustyScants 1d ago
I can see why they’ve been introduced, I just don’t think it’s entirely fair on others waiting years for treatment or services from the NHS or those who happen to live close to a consumption room.
I just feel that a lot of people see these rooms and think everybody who uses them will be grateful for them and behave responsibly in and around them. This just isn’t the case, there are people in the grips of drug addiction who simply don’t want to be helped, those individuals won’t give a monkeys toss about discarding needles, opportunistic crime or generally being cunts in and around the centre/rooms.
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u/mata_dan 1d ago edited 1d ago
Quite a lot of former addicts have the same opinion as you.
A lot of the people frequenting these places don’t want to get back on the ladder or to accept help they’re given.
Though not sure about this, apparently the more problematic addicts don't engage and sometimes actually leave the area to avoid it and people who do (which also makes it funny when the usual types complain about the service bringing addicts to the area that were already there...).
Anyway, best resource for people to know how this goes down on the ground from that perspective is https://www.youtube.com/@thestreetsglasgow which you're probably aware of.
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u/EconomicBoogaloo 1d ago
right wing "nutter" here - I'd legalize every drug including heroin because people should be allowed to make their own decisions.
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u/Ok_Net_5771 1d ago
Then you arent one of the people OP was referring to then, they are clearly meaning the anti drug draconian policies flavour of right wing thats so prevalent as a leftover from the 60’s
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u/Shoddy-Computer2377 1d ago
"Legalise ALL the drugs" means you're legalising all the bullshit and violence that comes with it. You would also still need the usual ways to wean people off them.
What people who say "Legalise ALL the drugs" actually mean is "make changes to the way drugs are currently controlled and review how they are criminalised" - and that's a different conversation.
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u/Metori 1d ago
I’m too dumb to understand but if drugs are legalised to the same extent alcohol and tobacco are where would this bullshit and violence come from?
I’d be all for people walking into Tesco and walking to the little kiosk at the front that sells cigarettes and asking for a pack of heroine or whatever else drug is the in thing. What would be the problem with that?
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u/EconomicBoogaloo 1d ago
There is enough violence when it comes to alcohol and we tolerate that.
The violence is as a result of it being on the black market. I really doubt there would be a street war between tesco and sainsburys over the cannabis market...
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u/polaires 1d ago
Whatever he says, good or bad, he’s still one of the worst politicians in this country.
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u/alittlelebowskiua People's Republic of Leith 1d ago
He better be careful, he sounded like a Lib Dem there rather than a Labour Tory vote overflow there.
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u/Oranges851 1d ago
We haven't actually demonstrated that Glasgow style drug consumption rooms stop people dying. This is extremely premature, it's also why people are so weary of even allowing progressives to perform experiments like this. Same thing we saw with Tavistock.
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u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 1d ago
That's true, not officially, as the pilot is still ongoing, but the staff at the facility believe it has helped:
The boss of The Thistle said earlier this week she was "fully convinced" more people would be dead from overdoses without the centre.
The centre has witnessed 17 overdoses since opening, according to service manager Lynn Macdonald.
She said: "I am absolutely, fully convinced a number of those would have turned into fatalities had they not happened in the Thistle, if people were alone and isolated, didn't have access to oxygen, Naloxone or an ambulance."
Which is a positive indicator.
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u/Oranges851 1d ago
Staff have a very strong preference for this being successful. It's the sort of thing that needs to be studied independently.
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u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 1d ago edited 22h ago
It's the sort of thing that needs to be studied independently.
Yeah, absolutely, not denying that, just pointing out that the early signs seem to be positive!
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u/randomusername123xyz 1d ago
17 overdoses and zero influence on stopping addicts taking drugs. success!
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u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 1d ago
17 overdoses that were addressed. They were going to overdose/use drugs anyway - this prevented their deaths.
And there has been at least some influence in ending their addiction. The BBC interviewed a user who, after visiting the centre, accessed further services and has now been 2 weeks abstinent.
It's not going to be a perfect system, nothing is, but it is preventing deaths, and is acting as a starting place for people to access further council services should they want. As I mentioned, it's not a silver bullet and will need other investment into drug rehabilitation and mental health programs, but this is helpful, especially as a wider strategy to prevent drug overdose deaths.
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u/koekerk 1d ago
Portugal likes to have the floor.
about Portugal's drug decriminalisation
Not perfect, but a lower average drug use and drug related criminality than the other European countries.
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u/NoRecipe3350 1d ago
Its a reasonable point, but at the same time we might as well just dole out the heroin as well, kill off the dealing industry.
Medical diamorphine is manufactured industrially in such large batches the manufacturing cost is tiny, indeed I'd imagine far more is spent on keeping it secure from thieves/addicted staff in the various stages of transport from production line to hospital ward.
I would however put some kind of sunset clause where it only applied to people above a certain age, to try and stop the next generation becoming addicts. Basically lets say all out junkies over 35, just say 'ok you can have as much heroin as you want and a free housing for the rest of your natural lives' and in pour as much as possible into preventing the next generation of younger people getting hooked.
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u/madeleineann 1d ago
Don't live in Scotland, but these things have seemed like a massive success. Kudos to you guys!
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u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 1d ago
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Absolutely would be beneficial to open more. Great to see support on this matter.