r/Scotland • u/Kagedeah • Sep 12 '24
Discussion Affordable uniform guidance recommends no blazers for students
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg5gxe5zd1o83
u/ieya404 Sep 12 '24
If there was something like "Any uniform items beyond a school tie which are not available at supermarkets must be 50% subsidised by the school", I wonder how many schools would find that shirt, sweater, trousers and/or skirt were plenty smart enough?
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u/NoIndependent9192 Sep 12 '24
Under Scottish law a state school cannot legally demand uniform compliance, itās just guidance.
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u/Iwantedalbino Sep 12 '24
Yeah but they can still make life suck for the kid without demanding complianceā¦.
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1
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u/JockularJim Mistake Not... Sep 12 '24
I'll always remember the ribbing I got for having a girls blazer, that had been passed down from my sister, which the other guys knew somehow because the buttons were on the other side.
This was how I learned that, not only was I a lot poorer than my classmates, but they were fucking massive losers.
13
u/Synthia_of_Kaztropol The capital of Scotland is S Sep 12 '24
when I was at primary school, the sole branded item was the school tie. we were expected to have a white blouse or shirt, dark grey or black skirt or trousers, the tie, and a jumper of either red or grey. Relatively few would manage to put their tie back on after PE.
Secondary school, the uniform ~suggestion~ was largely the same, white blouse or shirt, school tie, black skirt, trousers, or slacks, dark blue jumper or cardigan, until 5th and 6th year, when we were encouraged to wear the school blazer (though you could obtain one of the correct colour from wherever you liked, and the school badge was available separately to be sewn on to the blazer). Otherwise, people wore just about whatever (except shellsuits due to fire hazards), though by the time I was in 6th year, there were branded sweatshirts that were becoming available to the younger pupils, the wearing of those was encouraged.
blazers for primary schools and for S1-4 seem a bit much to me, though some of my cousins had to wear such things (though, they went to the good school as my aunt would point out at every opportunity, while also mentioning how she had to buy the special mandated brown underwear as well, but it was alright because her husband earned that much)
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u/rewindrevival Sep 12 '24
Having uniform underwear is beasty. How are they enforcing that one then?
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u/Synthia_of_Kaztropol The capital of Scotland is S Sep 12 '24
I do not know, and do not want to know. My aunt was and is a massive gobshite, so it's possible that specific underwear was not in fact mandatory.
3
u/Ok-Educator850 Sep 12 '24
Probably the awful brown PE knickers
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u/Synthia_of_Kaztropol The capital of Scotland is S Sep 12 '24
that does ring a bell... Did you go to Jordanhill ?
1
u/Ok-Educator850 Sep 12 '24
Nah, I actually went to school in England but also was meant to wear the infamous brown PE knickers. They were over your own underwear though!
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Sep 13 '24
My secondary school went fucking mental about uniforms in my third and fourth year. My maw was dirt poor so we couldn't afford them, so I just went to school in regular clothes. Got sat outside the headmasters office for "refusing to wear uniform". Would just go to my teachers in the morning and ask what we'd be studying each period, and then sit with my textbooks outside the office just reading and reading over and over. Got all the 1s and 2s I needed despite the best efforts of the fashion polis trying to fuck my education.
4
u/Reasonable_Dark6340 Sep 12 '24
Yeah blazers are bloody expensive and always sat stupid with the manufacturer my school used. Bout time.
3
u/no_fooling Sep 12 '24
What would happen, other than bullying, if your parents just said "nope, Fred is wearing a t-shirt and jeans every day"
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u/FrankieandHans Sep 12 '24
Sent home
9
u/Zenon_Czosnek _@/" Sep 12 '24
so the child will be denied mandatory education because they parents don't want to spend 100 quid on some idiotic item of clothing?
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u/KairraAlpha Sep 12 '24
Yep, this has always been my issue - schools care more about uniforms than education, if a child can be suspended from education for not wearing what the school says they should. And often the offenses are not distracting - wrong shoes, incorrect length of skirt, wrong colour jumper. None of those things supercede education. But school is about conformity and obedience, education is secondary.
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u/gallais Sep 13 '24
And then when they go to uni we need to waste time getting them out of that compliant, learn-to-the-test mindset (our first lecture to first years starts with the "I'm no yer da" rant).
2
u/BenFranklinsCat Sep 13 '24
Preach!
Trying to get high school students to grasp formative processes and feedback is painful. They only ever interact with their teachers at the end and they're conditioned to receiving grades with no feedback, giving them a do-or-die attitude and, most irritatingly, a habit of leaving things until the last minute because whatever people have said to them before, they've never been supported in any other manner of working!
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u/mathcampbell SNP Cllr Helensburgh & Lom.S, Nat Convenor English Scots for YES Sep 12 '24
No; thatās illegal. Uniform is suggested but not legally enforceable in Scotland. Local authority retain the legal duty to provide education.
2
u/Zenon_Czosnek _@/" Sep 13 '24
I see a field for some parents and pupils to excercise their right. I was through this, but I was in my late teens, so it was a bit different.
I attended a railway college in Poland, it was one of the very few schools there that had uniforms. I let my hair grow and the head teacher said I am not allowed it due to uniform policy. I checked the uniform policy and there was nothing about hair lenght so I refused to comply.
He kicked me out of the school for that. I went straight to the school ombudsman and filed a complaint. He went ballistic and called my father to school and complained to him about how ugly I look with those overgrown hair of mine. My dad said "Oh, i agree with you, but what we could do? He's 18, he can get legally married, he can drive a car or a truck, he can move out, get a job and live his own life, he can go to the army and drive a tank there and I am supposed to tell him how he is supposed to cut his hair?"
That left the head teacher speechless, and a bit confused, so he grasped an air and then mumbled "In that case I will not allow him to wear the school uniform". My dad was quick thinking and asked "can I have it in writing"?
And so for the rest of the year (it was my last year at the school) I was THE ONLY guy in the school that NOT HAD to wear uniform. And I of course was making the most of it, wearing the most outrageously coloured t-shirts and hoodies I could find. Everyone was envious of me, but not many dared to follow my footsteps, mostly because they were afraid their parents won't be that supportive.
Soon after the old head teacher retired and the school was reorganized due to widespread school system reform, so it was no longer railway college with uniforms but a general logistic school...
I think it was a very valuable lesson for me about how you should not let the person in position of authority to abuse your rights and how you supposed to stand up for yourself.
I can imagine someone in Scotland going that path too. I would cheer for them!
1
u/Supersaurus7000 Sep 12 '24
The amount of schools that act like they are the exception to that though is insane. Almost every school I know of in the central belt treats their uniform policy like a dirty cop would treat interviewing someone who didnāt know they can request a lawyer, throwing all sorts of bullshit at them because what are they gonna do, call the copās bluff?
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u/no_fooling Sep 12 '24
Bit isn't it illegal to not have kids attend school? Also just don't pick them up til school hours end. They can't forcefully remove the kid. Seems like interesting game of chicken, who'll blink first school or parent.
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u/mathcampbell SNP Cllr Helensburgh & Lom.S, Nat Convenor English Scots for YES Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 13 '24
Nope. Thatās illegal under the Education Act (Scotland) 1981.
Edit: itās the 1980 act not 1981. I was tired.
But guidance on Scot.Gov gives a bit more meat on the bones since the requirement to provide education is why they canāt exclude without a specified reason (and uniform isnāt specified - so thereās not a bit in the law that says you canāt force a child to wear uniform, just other clauses that stop them doing so).
āPupils should be supported and encouraged to observe a schoolās uniform or clothing policy, but they should not face negative consequences if they are unable to do so. Schools should not prevent any pupil from participating in an activity or subject due to their clothing or footwear, unless their participation would present a risk to the health, safety or wellbeing of pupils and staff. Pupils who are unable to observe a schoolās uniform or clothing policy should never be excluded from school for this reason. The response to non-wearing of uniform should be aligned to schoolsā broader policies to support relationships and behaviour, promote attendance and reduce absence. Teachers and school staff should be supported to implement a whole school approach to promoting positive relationships and behaviour, aligned to the guiding principles of Included, Engaged and Involvedā
Interestingly, a child CAN be disciplined if they refuse to comply with uniform policy (eg a teacher says blazer on and the kid says no) BUTā¦if the parent has a deeply held philosophical belief that uniforms are bad and refuses to provide one, or is unable to provide one due to cost etc, the child cannot suffer any educational deprivation due to that, subject to the rules about PE equipment/health and safety (eg the kids wearing 6 inch stilettos or massive dangly earrings and theyāre in a science lab etc).
At a certain age, deeply held philosophical beliefs from the child would likely achieve the same protection but Iām not sure thatās been tested in court so a school could probably chance it and it would have to see what a sheriff says if the parents/child take it further.
Either way tho, the guidance and law is clear. No uniform != No education.
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u/DINNERTIME_CUNT Sep 12 '24
I wish Iād been aware of this in the ā90s. My school was run by authoritarian cunts.
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u/Connell95 Sep 14 '24
Guidance is not the law.
Itās not illegal to exclude a pupil for not following school rules. That happens all the time.
And even in the guidance, the word used is āunableā, which is very different than āunwillingā.
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u/Jhe90 Sep 12 '24
Yeah, honestly all unform items should be mostly stock and available from most places.
Like a basic black jumper black trousers etx.
Named or fancy badged stuff kept to a minimum.
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u/AlternativeTopic3367 Sep 13 '24
Sounds awful. It was one of my favourite parts of my high school
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u/Jhe90 Sep 13 '24
Ita a practical school uniform. Trousers / skirt, a shirt, jumper or other such item to keep warm, an tie maybe.
Not need hats , blazers, fancy back.packa with logos etc.
Not a dress uniform.
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u/tiny-robot Sep 12 '24
There was no school uniforms in my secondary school - though that was a few years ago now.
It did mean the wealthier kids got to show off in new gear though - which was not great. Especially if you were from a poorer family.
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u/KairraAlpha Sep 12 '24
Wealthy kids will show off regardless of what you wear. If it's not clothing it's tech, jewellery, shoes, rucksacks, equipment.
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u/Connell95 Sep 14 '24
Yeah, but the fewer options they have, the harder it is. No uniform just means every kid feels compelled to turn up entirely in North Face-branded gear from head to toe or whatever.
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u/KairraAlpha Sep 14 '24
Literally never an issue in any European country I've lived. You're jsut too indoctrinated into being told how important uniforms are to actually realise they make no difference.
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u/Connell95 Sep 14 '24
You donāt even live here, so you have zero idea.
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u/KairraAlpha Sep 14 '24
I was born in Croydon, Surrey. I grew up in London, moved to various cities across the UK, lived in Wales and Scotland for a while. I did my entire schooling to age 16 in UK schools. My family and I may be Irish but I was born and grew up in the UK, I started travelling around Europe in my 20s, lived in Finland for a while, came back, left again in my 30s and lived in Germany and now Poland. Coming back to live in Scotland in about 3 or 4 years.
So, what's your next false assumption you'd like to tar me with to justify your ignorance?
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u/Connell95 Sep 14 '24
So Iām correct ā you donāt live here and donāt have any idea of current British / Scottish culture.
We have schools that donāt have uniform and this is literally exactly what happens. Parents hate it. Poorer kids hate it. This is just facts. Itās not some hypothetical weāve never tried.
If it doesnāt happen in Germany or Poland or Belarus, or whatever, that is completely irrelevant to what happens in Scotland.
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u/KairraAlpha Sep 14 '24
I lived there most of my life, literally am a British citizen by birth and you think because I left for a few years, everything changed and I don't understand the culture anymore ššš
You're a joke, get over yourself. If you don't have a valid argument or proof, just be the better person and bow out.
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u/Euphoric-Badger-873 Oct 03 '24
I for one would be interested in from where you gathered your information to make this assertion. I don't disagree but I'm not necessarily convinced.
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u/KleioChronicles Sep 13 '24
When I was at high school there wasnāt a strict blazer or jumper requirement. I just wore whatever jacket I had. I even got away with a black blouse and a white slightly stripy blouse. Wearing a waistcoat was popular later on with the alt people, myself included. I was freezing all the time and even wore my jacket, scarf, and gloves in the classroom. I think it changed when I left because they rebuilt the school and got a new headteacher. It was a scummy deprived school so I think they were trying to make it look smart. That never works though.
Ffs just make uniform smart casual whatever with the school tie. If itās appropriate for an office, itās appropriate for school. I cannae imagine forcing weans to wear just the blazer in rain or snow, especially if theyāre walking. Those donāt look very waterproof or warm.
When I was in primary school they asked us what we think the school uniform should be. I just said it should be whatever and a school badge. Still sounds like a good option to me.
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u/L003Tr disgustan Sep 13 '24
Schools make far too big a deal over uniforms. So fucking what if a child walks into school with a waterproof jacket on?
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u/mr_aives Sep 12 '24
I really don't understand why we make kids dress up for school when most people out there are wearing just jeans, t-shirt and a jumper or even worse, trackies.
Want some kind of uniform? Sure! But make it simple, casual and affordable ffs
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u/el_dude_brother2 Sep 12 '24
Itās a level playing field for all. If people are allowed to wear what they want then clothes become status symbols forcing kids/families to spend money to keep up.
Uniforms are less distracting and even.
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u/Supersaurus7000 Sep 12 '24
Good in theory, bad in practice. Things like mandatory blazers with the school logo cause inequality in who can afford them and not. Also, kids just use other things as status symbols
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u/PantodonBuchholzi Sep 12 '24
It can hardly be any more affordable tbh. The school our children go to has a sale at the start of the year where parents donate clothes, they are sorted and sold at 50p a piece with the proceeds going to a charity. Between buying a few second hand bits from the school sale and a few new things from Aldi the total cost for two children was around Ā£40 for the year. āNormalā clothes wouldnāt be any cheaper.
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u/Johnnycrabman Sep 12 '24
Director from todays school news letter:
Why we have school uniform: Ā· Promotes pride in xxxxxxx Academy Ā· Promotes a sense of belonging and community Ā· Promotes a positive mind-set / ready for work ā and separates home from school Ā· Creates a level playing field ā nobody has to have the latest designer clothes which reduces pressure on young people and financial pressures on families
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u/HonestlyKindaOverIt Sep 13 '24
The logic at my school was that it removed class divides, in that the poor kids who were in handmedowns and charity shop clothes wouldnāt stand out from those in designer, and also that āwhen you enter the working world, youāll need to wear a uniform every day so get used to itā. I think that second point has changed a bit now, depending on where you work.
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u/mr_aives Sep 13 '24
I'm not against uniforms (as I said in my comment), it is just weird that we force kids to dress like we did in the previous century.
Take a stroll around the city centre with all the office buildings and the big companies. Rarely anyone dresses up so formally to work these days.
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u/scottishhistorian Sep 13 '24
They tried to make blazers mandatory when I was in my final year. I got told off so many times for not wearing one that they eventually gave up. I inspired a mini-revolt against them in my school and I'm happy about that. It's been almost a decade since I left so I doubt it stuck but it was a small win. Glad they are thinking about making them voluntary again.
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u/DeedleDeeisme oh ya hoor ye šš“ó §ó ¢ó ³ó £ó “ó æ Sep 13 '24
Totally agree with this! In our area blazers cost between 60 and 90 quid and are typically only available once per year as they are a bespoke colour. So you have to 'predict' what size your kid will need for the full year and purchase the sizes accordingly. They also have male and female versions.
We all know that tweens and teens can grow like weeds so you may need to purchase more than one size of blazer. The school uniform clothing grant (which is available to families on lower income) does not even cover the cost of a blazer in most cases. Blazers should be on display all the time, so if it rains no jackets over the top! Even in the Scottish summer they are expected to continue wearing it.
What's worse is that they get penalised at school if they don't wear one during school hours, including if they leave school during lunch. They can be demerited (lose merit badges they may have earned), sent home, and won't be considered for certain roles within the school community. Staff patrol to specifically check they are being worn. Even kids with ASN such as sensory issues have been reprimanded for not wearing a blazer, mine being one of them. I've also heard of one kid who was penalised for wearing the male version instead of the female fit; it was handed down from an older sibling as the family couldn't afford new. It's absolutely ridiculous for such an expensive piece of clothing.
Around 2 years ago they 'introduced' that kids could wear a black v neck provided their ties were on display (yes they have to wear ties too and always with a shirt, not a polo shirt). Lots of families were very pleased with this until we discovered that black v necks could only be worn under the blazers š³šš
Absolutely ludicrous! Do away with them completely in my opinion. How well is a kid going to perform in school if they are not comfortable due to having to wear a bulky but tailored blazer all the time...? If they are not comfortable they aren't going to be at their best. Overrated and ridiculously expensive.
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u/Forward-Astronomer40 Sep 12 '24
Don't they just have school colours so the police know where the little shits are from š¤
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u/KairraAlpha Sep 12 '24
Uniforms are a redundant, draconian relic of the past and shouldn't even be a thing. There's really no excuse for it, it does nothing for education other than distract from it. The excuses don't even hold up - you don't need to 'learn' how to wear uniforms for work, you just put clothes on. You don't prevent bullying with uniforms, it happens anyway regardless. It doesn't 'breed discipline' when the uniforms are customised and altered to suit each child anyway and no one takes them seriously.
Just scrap uniforms and let kids be comfortable when they're meant to be learning.
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u/Mention_Patient Sep 13 '24
You be amazed the amount of bullying you can receive if you're poor and wearing your own clothes to school. I had this for a year and you'd get brand shamed constantlyĀ
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u/KairraAlpha Sep 13 '24
My daughter went to a polish school, throughout Europe schools don't use uniforms. She never experienced bullying for her outfit, even though we aren't the kind of people to buy brand name clothing or trendy items. Bullying happened anyway, but not about her clothing.
Bullying happens no matter what. If you'd had those brands, they'd have found something else, because bullying is down to people who will bully. It doesn't matter whether you fall into line with their expectations, they'll still go for you. I was bullied my entire school life, in the UK where uniforms are mandatory, and part of that was that my trousers weren't from the expensive store or my shoes weren't the latest expensive brand. The uniforms did nothing to change bullying, much like the school and teachers.
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u/commonnameiscommon Sep 13 '24
People who werenāt raised poor donāt understand this. I remember being bullied for wearing the wrong colour trainers or trainers with an extra stripe. Uniforms wouldāve eliminated this
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u/KairraAlpha Sep 13 '24
I was raised exceptionally poor, so you can do one with that presumption. But as ii replied above, bullying happens anyway, regardless of what you wear. I was bullied my entire school life because of my parents social status, including being bullied for not wearing the same expensive version of the uniform that others wore. They will bully regardless of what you wear, it's down to the people who are inclined to bullying and the abject lack of accountability of schools to monitor and stop bullying.
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u/pog-mo-bhlog Sep 14 '24
Went to a non uniform school and this never happened to me. People will also bully kids for having uniforms that don't fit or are shabby or second hand. The crux of the issue is not the uniforms, but kids being allowed to get away with bullying that is motivated by bigotry (as the majority of bullying is in my experience, though often not the fault of the kids, but they soak up the bigotry their parents and other adults exhibit).
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u/a-new-year-a-new-ac Sep 12 '24
I always hated wearing a uniform to school and ever since Iāve started working, even in college, it was for nothing, Iām fortunate enough to wear just normal clothes to work now
I mean I get them for like public facing jobs, to identify staff and such but at the very least, uniforms should be updated to be less formal clothes that are somewhat comfortable to wear
2
u/SteampoweredFlamingo Sep 13 '24
The best uniforms - especially for teenagers - are the ones that allow some degree of personality built-in. In my experience, it causes much less pushback with the staff about compliance.
Our blazers could be any brand, any cut, as long as they were black blazers with the school logo stitched onto the breast pocket (which was provided by the school, and additional ones were priced at Ā£5.) There were very few complaints.
It extended to most of the rest of the uniform. Any practical, black shoe; trainers, boots, plimsolls - whatever. Shirts could be white or black. Trousers or skirts were all good. Want to add a waistcoat, or cardigan, or another layer? As long as it looked smart you were a-okay.
Only real rule was the school tie and that was provided to every student for free.
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u/Obvious-Sand-6270 Oct 09 '24
our school encourages blazers and has gone as far as creating a blazer and non-blazer lunch queue, the blazer one moves faster and sometimes serves stuff the other wonāt. This is segregation of rich and poor, people who can afford Ā£60-Ā£100 blazer vs. people who canāt. Itās an outrage. However i like wearing my blazer, it comes with benefits, including faster lunch queues and it makes people treat you in a more responsible manner
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u/FakeNathanDrake Sruighlea Sep 12 '24
My high school didn't have blazers when I was there, but they brought them out a few years after I left (so my sister was caught with that). Initially they just brought them out for 5th/6th years, meaning that even if you were leaving at Christmas in 5th year your parents still had to shell out a small fortune for a blazer, even though you'd only have the use of it for a few months.
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u/Robinungoliant Sep 12 '24
Growing up in north ayrshire our (Catholic) schools, primary and secondary, insisted on full uniform including blazers. The state schools had no uniforms, crazy that that was allowed.
I always felt I had a target on my back when I went to school, for good reason.
I wonder if this new ruling includes faith schools..or if it's just 'advisory'
1
u/jakeyaaas Sep 13 '24
Our school uniform changed depending on which year you were in. Starts with polo shirt, school jumper and black trousers; to shirt and tie; at S5, you add a blazer; S6 you have to get that blazer modded with red lining and a specific tie. Gets expensive for parents and they canāt always be passed down. Simplifying uniform would be great
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u/I_Hate_Leddit Sep 12 '24
Personally I'd be in favour of checking the hard drives of headteachers who are obsessive about uniforms but this is better than nothing I suppose
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u/Prior_echoes_ Sep 12 '24
We only ever had blazers for perfects. I think the school has blazers for everyone now. Bit of a rip off.
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u/pog-mo-bhlog Sep 14 '24
Getting rid of uniforms entirely (while still having an appropriate dress code) is the way forward. I went to I think the only school in Scotland to have this policy, and it's one of the top performing schools in Glasgow.
Not only are uniforms a massive class barrier due to cost (blazers are a particularly egregious example of this) but they're also a huge disability issue. I would have experienced sensory hell if I'd had to wear a shirt and tie every day, and would have had significantly more autistic meltdowns, which would have had an incredibly detrimental effect on my education. It's one small step towards bridging the disability gap in education.
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u/Lettuce-Pray2023 Sep 12 '24
Should be compulsory for all genders to wear long trousers to school.
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u/GloryBax Sep 12 '24
If anyone is distracted by girls wearing short skirts to school, that says more about the person being distracted than the girl wearing the skirt.
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u/quartersessions Sep 12 '24
I really don't like the idea of central government assuming this much control over schools.
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u/spidd124 Sep 12 '24
Telling schools that no you cannot infact discriminate against poor families is exactly the type of central government action I want to see.
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u/rewindrevival Sep 12 '24
Blazers were only worn by S5 and S6 in my school, and they were optional. We were in a low income area and blazers were pretty expensive.
I don't agree with schools who make blazers mandatory, especially for lower years who are still growing and will outgrow their clothes in a matter of months. They look smart and I like them, but it's not feasible for a lot of families.
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u/locked641 Sep 12 '24
The government discouraging mandatory blazers is just about the most nothing issue ever
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u/quartersessions Sep 12 '24
It's by the very nature of its pettiness that it exposes itself. It's micromanagement of the very worst type.
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u/glasgowgeg Sep 13 '24
I don't see any issues here. Blazers are usually the one part of a uniform you can't buy a cheap equivalent for from Asda/Tesco/etc.
There's absolutely no need for blazers in schools. When I was in school they were optional for S5-S6, or whatever wee jumped up guy was a prefect, but the vast majority never wore them.
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u/quartersessions Sep 13 '24
There's absolutely no need for blazers in schools.
Schools appear to think differently on that point.
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u/glasgowgeg Sep 13 '24
Schools like guaranteed revenue as a result of blazers by a specific manufacturer they'll get a cut from, shocker.
1
Sep 13 '24
You must be new to how education works. You might want to sit down before you do any more learning about it.
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u/quartersessions Sep 13 '24
Ah yes, the classic "you know nothing, but I won't elucidate further". I'm yet to be impressed by the knowledge of people coming out with that position once they actually set out their thoughts.
The Scottish Government should not be exercising this level of control over schools. That's hardly an ill-informed position.
Schools are run by headteachers and the local education authority. Having Ministers micromanaging them from above is a poor way to run things.
2
Sep 14 '24
You are definitely a fucking mouthbreather.
https://education.gov.scot/curriculum-for-excellence/
Education is by and large directed by the government. There may be small changes made by local government or individual schools to attain specific goals, such as academy status, but who do you think sets those goals? The fucking government.
Educate yersel.
0
u/quartersessions Sep 14 '24
You are definitely a fucking mouthbreather.
You're really giving the sense of a reasonable, well- informed commentator rather than, say, an angry oddball on the internet. Well done.
Education is by and large directed by the government
Even if this were the case - and I'm making the point that the people who generally own and run schools in Scotland are local authorities - you're simply making an is/ought fallacy in trying to present that as a positive.
Given how heavily criticised Curriculum for Excellence is, and that schools managed to survive without national curriculum type instruction for centuries, you'd probably be better finding some other argument for centralisation.
Still, really glad to get the benefit of your evidently enormous insight into the sector.
1
u/pog-mo-bhlog Sep 14 '24
They're state schools. That means they're controlled by the state. It's where they get their funding from so we don't have to go back to the Victorian era where only the wealthy could afford to send kids to school. It's important that they're regulated correctly.
1
u/quartersessions Sep 14 '24
They're state schools. That means they're controlled by the state.
They were once controlled by parish school boards. Now they're controlled by local authorities. All of these are part of the state.
It's where they get their funding from
State schools are funded by local authorities, with one or two exceptions in Scotland.
It's important that they're regulated correctly.
I agree. Which should largely be the responsibility of the local education authority with oversight by inspectors.
2
u/pog-mo-bhlog Sep 14 '24
You can't have different education standards in different local council areas though, that would foster a massive increase in inequality.
1
u/quartersessions Sep 14 '24
You can't have different education standards in different local council areas though
Of course you can - and, obviously, we already do.
Any form of local government means different levels of service. Which is a good thing - services can innovate, councils can tailor services to local needs, different levels of government can learn from other approaches.
The alternative would be abolishing every level of local and devolved government in this country. There's absolutely no need for one Government in London to be micromanaging schools in the Shetland Islands or South Yorkshire, and expecting that'd lead to positive outcomes.
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u/backupJM public transport revolution needed ššš Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
I remember my high-school was extremely strict on blazers for all years, they had to be the thick wooly type and worn everyday. Students used to get stopped at the door if they had a raincoat over the blazer, or in lieu of the blazer - and told to wear the blazer properly. The headteacher I had has since retired though, so I don't know if the rules have changed.
They were costly too, about Ā£80-Ā£120. My mum used to get me a larger size so I could wear it for two years before needing a new one lol