r/WorkReform • u/imbackwiththemilk_ • Jan 30 '22
Advice Only UNITED can we stand together!
"First they came for the CommunistsAnd I did not speak outBecause I was not a CommunistThen they came for the SocialistsAnd I did not speak outBecause I was not a SocialistThen they came for the trade unionistsAnd I did not speak outBecause I was not a trade unionistThen they came for the JewsAnd I did not speak outBecause I was not a JewThen they came for meAnd there was no one leftTo speak out for me"-Martin Niemöller
As someone who grew up in a very diverse family and community with Jewish ties this saying was drilled in to my head daily. It made me look at life and other humans as all equals no matter what they believed in , looked like, or stood for. We need to stop arguing over frivolous stuff and hating on each other over semantics of beliefs and stand together all as workers who want and need change more then ever before. Non-stop there is people going back an forth over this or that and it is extremely childish. We are here to fight for WORKERS RIGHTS, not for people to isolate and shun people of different beliefs and ideas. If we keep this up then the super rich are going to get exactly what they want us to do which is fighting each other over things that arent workers rights and the change we need. The longer we keep wasting time over the little things the longer we arent looking at the real issues at hand: THE FACT 400 PEOPLE OWN 3.2 TRILLION IN WEALTH AND THE WEALTH GAP IS WORSE THEN ANY OTHER TIME IN HISTORY AND WORKERS DYING AND BEING TREATED LIKE THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL!!!!
EDIT: What do you guys not understand? Does anywhere in here do I say "bring in the right wing", no. It is clear as air, people who support ALL WORKERS RIGHTS should be welcomed with open arms. If they dont then they can GTFO, If people have genuine questions/concerns about how their opposing ideologies might conflict with this movement then educate them. Like how ignorant does someone have to be to just automatically assume people with different views on anything not just right or left issues will just look at something and go "yeah I'll blindly juts hop in this and follow it". People who understand why the workers rights is a very important issue needing lots of change know this because of the fact they have been directly effected by it in some way, people with different views arent you, they didn't grow up like you did under the same life style that indirectly taught them WHY this is important. Just because people need to be educated or learn something doesn't mean they need to be shunned out entirely. Silencing people and telling them to just fuck off gets us no where, and quite frankly its the very things we all as a mostly left leaning group have fought for decades to get to this point. Have we all seriously forgotten how much all the people in the past scarified to us to this point where people with minority beliefs have been able to now prosper? 100 years you would be hang for the color of your skin, civil rights fought tooth and nail to end that crap. The LGBT community fought tooth and nail for their rights. All types of minorities fought together against the tyranny of authoritarian bigoted assholes, and they did so by educating people, being inclusive, talking to people in open forums, and learning how to come together as a team to fight against the ones who sought to destroy them. People genuinely died for our rights and for us to be in the positions we are today. Yet as I read comments from people who claim to be left side in their views all I see is hate, the same very hate the people we oppose used against us. If you swap key verbiage from these posts I have read from people in other posts it literally reads exactly like the hate speech you find on the oppositions sides forums and it is sicking to read. How you guys can not see that is beyond me in every logical way. Am I saying be a stupid ass and juts blindly let in sabatogers obviously not use your brain for gods sake, like come on. Am I saying stop wasting our time on useless arguments that in the end gets us no where at all besides in-fighting and division and slowing this movement down, yes, absolutely yes I am. I take the time out of my day to talk to anyone with an opposing idea that i believe to be wrong cause I know that with time and the use of facts those beliefs can and will spread. It is entirely ridiculous that allies are having to defend themselves from the very people who try an say they support them, I've had to defend myself against absurd statements made on my character with out any other prior knowledge from the accusers of it yet they say they back my similar beliefs in policies, yet that accusation alone shows they dont. Its like y'all are just itching to unleash a barge of hate on anyone you come across that you think might oppose something you believe in just for saying "hey bro calm down no need for the hate". The irony in that is so thick you can physically see it, yeah lets fight hate with more hate and give the people we are fighting against more ammo to show people who are on the fence of joining us the proof they need to paint us as hateful people and that the ideas we oppose are better in some way. You want some real change, stop being a cry baby bitch and act like an adult an stop kicking an screaming about shit that doesnt even matter. You want a soap box to stand on an scream about you political beliefs then do it else where, because this place is for workers rights not "my feels were hurt and Im going to attack anyone who opposes me", cause then you are no better then them and if you can not see that then you are blind. You cant force someone to agree with your views, that is unless your damn Nazi. So unless I skipped that memo from the Dems/farther left leaning side stop acting like one and start acting like a damn human with some compassion. Cause 10,20,30,50,100 years the people who fought to get us where we are today begged for even a drop of what you all are taking for granted and you cant even see it.
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Jan 30 '22
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
What about "Jewish background" do you not understand?
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Jan 30 '22
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
I am NOT Jewish I come from a Jewish Community, HUGE difference. I ma trying to include ANYONE who fights for workers rights! That is the point dude, like what do you not understand, you are blinding yourself with your own hate for something else.
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Jan 30 '22
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
Does a fascists support workers rights?NO!So why would ANYONE assume I mean that, like holy shit
I swear to god this is like telling the cashier i want cheese on my burger and they say "so no cheese, got it"
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u/Ulthanon Jan 30 '22
Well then you’re naïve as fuck to think that Republicans just flipped a switch or some shit, and suddenly want to join a nascent labor movement in good faith. Some have spent their entire lives voting against, and personally advocating against, labor rights; to let those people in, sight unseen, is asking to destroy whatever minor power this labor movement has gained for itself. Maybe start by looking for allies in people who haven’t wanted us dead for the last few decades.
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
Im not advocating what you are describing. Im advocating allowing people who want the change to happen in and to keep an open mind at first instead of jumping on people off rip. For instance if you would have taken the time to at any point ask me questions instead of lashing out of assumed ideas on my beliefs you would have realized that, and this back an forth never would have happened. Thus this time wasted between proves my point.
When you assume things, you make an ass out of you and me.1
u/Ulthanon Jan 30 '22
When I assume that Republicans aren’t inherently negotiating in good faith, I protect myself from harm. That assumption is based on a lifetime of experience that has shown if they are included in the decision-making process for a project, that project will be worse off for it. They are the absolute last people I’d seek out for organizing; better to find apolitical/non-party affiliated people first.
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
And I completely agree, however people change. You yourself didn't get to the beliefs you have today with out first being shown things in one way or another. You grew up around things that shaped your ideas and beliefs. They did to. Your mind changed when faced with something, they probably never faced what you faced. So they don't think the same. However people do change, and not a people stick blindly on political lines. For instance if you only ever looked at my views on the 2cd amendment you'd think I was Right leaning, however if you look at the rest of my views you'd find I'm extremely left leaning. Some right leaning people want legal weed for an example. Just cause someone claims one thing doesn't mean their views on other things aren't with the majority of their party. Politics is like a soup, all our beliefs and views get tossed in to one huge pot and mixed up to give out a label that we stand on. I live in Texas and it's VERY red, however a large majority of people I personally know claim Republican, however some of their views are left leaning. Some claim to be Christians however have no issue with anyone in the LGBTQ community. Not everyone is a ravenous dog that blindly attacks what is put in front of them. I am mearly asking to keep open minds and to allow people to show their true colors themselves. If they say they want to exclude anyone from the issue of ALL WORKERS RIGHTS then cool they are an enemy. If they show they want to include everyone no matter what, then they are a friend to the cause. I'm mistreated for a lot of my personal beliefs that I live in constant fear of being harrassed or harmed for just my beliefs. However I never expect people to just see things my way off rip cause I understand they might not know anything at all about them, so we inform them, educate them, teach them, and help them understand because to just assume people will do those with out any form of passing on of knowledge in some kinda way is just ignorant. You could never expect someone to just "know" the striff or even to just know anything at all with out first informing them. If after you explain an inform a person on a subject and they are still against it, then yes by all means they are an enemy. If after informing an teaching someone they change their minds then they are friend.
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u/blahblah_why_why Jan 30 '22
At least hit the enter key a few times for the homies with adhd; that block of text ain't gettin through to no one.
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
LUL
I got really bad ADHD, so once I start to hyper-focus and typing it just streams out like a water fall. Ill edit it in a bit
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u/Tight_Departure_2983 Jan 30 '22
The sentiment is cool and all but we can't let people bring their social prejudice into the movement, which will ultimately harm it anyway.
The Pullman Strikes failed, in part, because the union representing them refused to represent black workers. If we have people coming in here and refusing to respect the minority members of our community, they are doing more harm than good imo.
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
I am remotely suggesting we do that? My entire post is saying other wise dude. If you dont stand for ALL WORKERS then gtfo, if you do then cool. It is really that simple.
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u/soapbubbles21 Jan 30 '22
Yes but the political lines with conservatives is usually not wanting to cover some workers. Oh, and I’m a liberal hoping for a Nordic style social democracy-not a socialist or communist or anarchist-and even I can figure that out.
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22 edited Jan 30 '22
Yes, but there is some who do aline with one political party preference but have views more left leaning in other areas. For instance, some of them want legal weed, that's a leftist ideal. Or personal for me, I'm a socialist and VERY left leaning however when it comes to the 2cd amendment I stand extremely firm on it being here. Not everyone blindly sticks to party lines at all times. Politics isn't a one size fits all, each issue we vote on alone at face value could make an outsider assume that person goes on side or the other. However social issues and voter issues is like a soup, all your views get tossed in and mixed together to form what you believe in as a whole.
EDIT: even your self says "usually", thus meaning not all of them and also meaning not all the time. So even you yourself are saying you agree with me with out saying you agree with me. One size doesn't fit all, and me, you, and everyone else here knows that. These argumentss are moot points an a waste of time of both of us. We should focus our energies together as a whole to push what we are to push forward "All workers rights" and stop arguing over synantecs and choice of verbiage.
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u/soapbubbles21 Jan 30 '22
Ehh…I don’t know if we agree or disagree. It would take more discussion which probably isn’t worth the effort. That said, even Boomers tend to be more independent than party loyalists. And with youngish people the number of independent voters is even higher. Talking issues will give a more accurate stance of someone’s politics than party affiliation.
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
"Talking issues will give a more accurate stance of someone’s politics than party affiliation."
You summed up what I was trying to say better then me.
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u/soapbubbles21 Jan 30 '22
Ehh…they’ve been coming for people for a long time. The Native Americans protesting the oil ans gas pipelines in the Midwest, and Black Lives Matter ans immigrants and occasionally left leaning politicians who actually try to do something useful come to mind. Personally I wish they would come for Trump Jan 6 people and Manchin and Synema. (Who me bitter?)
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
Trust me, I feel the same way you do. But if people's minds change an they want to stand with us and fight with us then let them. Why continue to judge a person for their past deeds if they have changed their views on a subject? That's like saying you'd never give a person a second chance, and to me that sounds very close minded as a whole. People change, people realize their wrongs, and it is only fair to give them that chance to prove it. You yourself wasn't always dug deep in to your current beliefs, it took time and life experience to get to where you are today.
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u/soapbubbles21 Jan 30 '22
I’ve always pretty liberal, but my grandfather (WWII generation) was active in the local carpenters union an an in getting women and minorities into the union. But yes, we all figure things out as we go along. To me it’s more about nuance and boundaries. I’m gonna do what I’m gonna do and conservatives are welcome to stay or go but I’m not going to compromise my beliefs or chase them if you know what I mean.
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u/imbackwiththemilk_ Jan 30 '22
Absolutely! An what you are saying is exactly what I am saying. I never believe in bending my beliefs to fit another's wills and wants, will I allow for a change in beliefs absolutely. But I will not cater to the feelings of another just so I can get a leg up or not offend them. Doing so means you stand for nothing. I'm willing to stand planted on my beliefs in the face of all evils and express myself openly to the fullest. I feel the more people who do that the more people's minds will change on social issues. Never back down, never waiver, never cower in fear, and stand firm on the beliefs and eventually the enemy will get tired of punching and that is when you strike. But do not take the blows blindly either, be like flowing water, always there and never phased by outsider influence.
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Jan 30 '22
The fact that people are disagreeing with this is very telling of the state of this sub.
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u/Hammercannon Jan 30 '22
Sub is in major Flux, growing very fast. Needs month to get legs under it, and her bad actors filtered out.
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u/[deleted] Jan 30 '22 edited Feb 01 '22
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