r/audioengineering • u/Mrpuddingpie09 • 1d ago
Discussion Sound engineering degree apprenticeships?
Does anyone know of any (fairly reputable) companies/studios/hire houses that do degree apprenticeships in sound engineering? My main goal is to do theatre, technical theatre, and in specific, lighting, but I'm going to keep my formal education broader to keep my future options open!
UK based, but possibly willing to study abroad.
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u/particlemanwavegirl 1d ago
No. I think you're being thrown by the word "engineering" here. It's more or less a fantasy to make us feel good: people running sound equipment are technicians. You don't need a formal education, and you won't find one in this industry. You need an entry level job. Get a degree if you want to learn electric circuits or programming and become a product designer or something like that. If you pay someone to teach you to turn a knob, well, industry people mostly just laugh about that sort of thing.
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u/rinio Audio Software 1d ago
I agree that, nowadays, the "engineering" part is a fantasy in the context of the people running the equipment. But, we use the term because, when this field was in its infancy 80-100 years ago (or whenever you want to draw the line) it was a subdiscipline of electrical engineering and the operators were, often, trained as such. In the modern context, many folk who would've been called audio engineers back then by virtue of specializing in some engineering discipline for audio applications, are just referred to as engineers of that discipline (electrical, software, etc).
I agree with everything you've said. Just adding some context for OPs benefit.
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u/particlemanwavegirl 1d ago
Certainly. Look at George Massenburg: he mixes, he masters, and he also designs world-class processors. I'm not even saying you necessarily need to get a degree to call yourself an engineer. But you do need to know how the system works, not just how to work the system.
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u/rinio Audio Software 1d ago
Definitely. Massenburg taught at McGill while I was there. :)
In some countries, Canada where I am for example, you do need to have an engineering license which requires an accredited engineering degree in order to call yourself an engineer. It is crime to call yourself an engineer here otherwise.
It gets more complicated, because ofc it does. I, for example, hold an accredited degree in software engineering, but the province I am in does not recognize software as an engineering discipline so I may not get a license nor call myself a software engineer. I work on an engineering team for an American company and the Americans who do the same job as me for the same pay are 'engineers' whereas I am a 'developer'. Not that anyone really cares.
There are also carveouts for jobs which historically used the term 'engineer' but where no reasonable person would assume that the person would hold an engineering degree/license/insurance and are not responsible for the large scale safety of other. Sound/audio engineer and train engineers are two that come to mind.
I hope that doesn't come off as nit-picky; I'm not saying this to correct you; I just find it amusing and, since OP is from the UK, the laws that apply to them may be more similar to Canada (although I have no real idea).
At any rate, Massenburg is goals. :)
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u/particlemanwavegirl 23h ago
Oh I don't think you're being nitpicky. I am American so I call myself an engineer at work so that I look like I am competitive with my peers. I can't be the only one who admits he's just a technician, but I am probably one of only a very few who even has the self awareness to know it. Even tho by most measures I am closer to a real engineer than most, I can do calculus, have deeply studied number theory and computer science, and am working on my own processor designs as we speak as a hobby. But I am outright embarrassed for other people's sake when I read some of the questions (and misguided answers) submitted to this subreddit. Technician would be a modest and appropriate word to use for what I actually get paid to do, much less the blind shots in the dark many people seem to be taking.
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u/j1llj1ll 17h ago
I did live sound (i.e. was a roadie, gradually worked my way up to being trusted to do some lighting, drive vehicles, shuttle artists, help with stage setup and tear-down etc) as a casual side hustle while studying at university.
They were generally pretty compatible given a lot of the hours were at night, weekends etc.
I managed to graduate from my degree and get a professional day job. But if I'd flunked out, I was reaching the point regards contacts, skills, reputation where I could have moved into doing more touring shows, small gigs, developing contacts to do studio musician jobs for advertisements, playing in musicals etc and probably could have made a viable living from it. It wouldn't have been a easy life or lots of money .. but I could have done it I think. At least until my body started to descend into decrepitude.