r/cars • u/OldCarWorshipper 1995 Lexus LS400, 2002 Ford F250 7.3, many classic projects • 1d ago
With what engineering or marketing blunders do you think that each one of Detroit's Big 3 completely jumped the shark?
Here's mine:
GM- the Chevy Vega, the Cadillac HT 4100 engine, and the Cadillac Cimarron.
Ford- deciding it was cheaper to pay out the wrongful death and injury lawsuits related to the Pinto fuel tank rather than fix the car. Followed up with the unsafe handling capabilities of the Bronco II and early Explorer SUV, which Ford knew about early on and pushed them out the door anyway.
Chrysler- switching its top-of-the-line New Yorker luxury sedan to the K platform.
What other examples can you think of?
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u/goaelephant 1d ago
Pontiac G8, especially V8 manual, was not marketed enough. Everybody lusts over CT5V and outgoing Chevy SS for a manual V8 sedan, but Pontiac gave us that decades ago.
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u/HandyMan131 1d ago
Sure, but it’s not like the SS or CT5V are actually selling in large numbers either. As much as car nerds lust, not many people are buying.
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u/nekmatu 23h ago
They are super expensive in a time when the people who would want it can’t afford it. Anyone with enough money will go with one of the “luxury” offerings like BMW etc., regardless of which car is better.
The Camaro, Mustang etc, all got real expensive too quick or aren’t made anymore. The CT5-v is for the “I need a 4 seater Camaro 1LE or similar performance car”. It’s truly impressive as a car but it’s too expensive for that sector.
Anyone with 100k is getting a different car with more fancy badging.
I love it for what it is and I’m super happy they built it but car snobs aren’t going to take it over another brand and those who want it can’t swing it.
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u/Lucreth2 10h ago
Tried to buy an SS 2 years ago. I could get a brand new scat pack charger with a few options for less than a 6 year old SS in half decent condition.
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u/ShoedJoeJackson 9h ago
Yeah it’s crazy to think Chevy was giving them away for $35k at the end. Now one with 50k miles is worth that much
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u/Lucreth2 7h ago
Yup... Not buying one is on my list of regrets but my Camaro was only a few years old at the end of the SS run and I didn't have family to worry about so I didn't even properly consider it at the time.
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u/swimming_cold 2018 GTI | 2018 SS 1LE 4h ago
I swear nobody even knows what the Chevy ss is. I drive a 1LE and no one knows what that is either. I always get asked if the hood wrap was factory or not. My point is Chevy is ass at marketing their performance cars, corvette being the exception
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u/TurboSalsa 1d ago
The G8 was released at the worst possible time (2008). Gas prices hit $4 that summer and then economy crashed that fall.
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u/goaelephant 1d ago
$4? I will fill up an entire oil tanker ship for that price. It's almost $6 where I am
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u/TurboSalsa 23h ago
Yeah but Americans were used to $1.50 gas haha.
People freaked out and rushed to trade in their SUVs, so V8s were already a tough sell even before the economy melted down.
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u/inaccurateTempedesc aircooled and carbureted 23h ago
$4/gal is almost exactly $6/gal in today's money lol
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u/sc0lm00 USS Sublime 1d ago
The gxp was a bit more expensive and limited production of ~1800. They were basically all sold immediately. They didn't need to advertise it as the LS3 and manual were at the top at the time and they made so few. For a long while you couldn't find one below MSRP on the used market.
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u/cthompson07 ‘25 CT5-V, ‘16 Camaro 2ss 1d ago
I’d love a ct5V with a NA LT1. The 3.0TT is nice and whatnot, and the $40k extra for a blackwing is nuts. Just give me an $80k NA LT1 ct5
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u/Falloutvictim 2025 Cadillac CT5-V 12h ago
NA LT1 powered CT5-V would be sweet. I'm happy with the 3.0TT in my V, it's a fun engine, and from everything I've read they're reliable too, but if Cadillac offered a NA LT1 priced between the regular V and V Blackwing for $80K like you propose, I'd have jumped on it.
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u/cthompson07 ‘25 CT5-V, ‘16 Camaro 2ss 11h ago
I agree, the 3.0TT has been great, it’s surprised me how quick it can feel at times honestly.
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u/Falloutvictim 2025 Cadillac CT5-V 9h ago
Have you used the launch control on your CT5-V at all? I recently started playing around with mine and got 5.1 seconds 0-60 my first try on a backroad with not that great of a surface. I'm sure I can get closer to the published 4.6 seconds on a better surface, but either way it surprised me how hard it launched for a 3,900+ lb sedan with a 3.0 engine.
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u/cthompson07 ‘25 CT5-V, ‘16 Camaro 2ss 8h ago
I got a 4.8 on a shit road outside my work. I tried on PTM race 2 but I think I’ll try one of the other ones, it spun quite a bit. It’s definitely surprising though. I feel like it’s been faster than 4.8 just rolling on the throttle but haven’t tried yet
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u/leedle1234 92 Miata, 15 Sportwagen TDI 17h ago edited 17h ago
GM had no real care to actually sell those in true volume, the ones they did were only to fulfill the export agreement they made with the Australian govt. They only exported exactly as many as they were contractually required to.
It's really obvious when you see that they basically instantly announced the Caprice PPV right after pontiac folded, then added the SS
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u/kon--- 1d ago
That's not jumping the shark. You're not even in the water.
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u/kon--- 1d ago
In not marketing it, GM bringing Holden to the US was the opposite of jumping the shark.
If you're not aware, the phrase comes from a TV show, Happy Days that put its main character in the water, on water skis then pulled him up a ramp to...jump a shark.
It was a desperate stunt done for ratings.
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u/goaelephant 1d ago
What does that mean?
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u/cat_prophecy 2017 Poverty-Spec S60 1d ago edited 23h ago
"Jumping the shark" refers to something being past the point of credibility, basically hanging on by creating unnecessary or unbelievable drama; a show that should have been cancelled ages ago.
It refers to an episode in the latter days of the Happy Days show where Fonzi did a "stunt"
on his motorcycleby literally jumping over a sharkin a swimming pool. It signifies a downturn in the quality of the show.3
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u/Slideways 12 Cylinders, 32 valves 1d ago
It refers to an episode in the latter days of the Happy Days show where Fonzi did a "stunt" on his motorcycle by literally jumping over a shark in a swimming pool.
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u/FullGarage29 GT4.5, 360 spider, Z06, 911 Turbo, R32 GT-R, ‘72 LT-1 1d ago
I had a g8. Awesome car
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u/knowledgeable_diablo 1d ago
So did almost half of Australia, shame that the US head office just let it wither and die on the vine and let it be the first step in the implosion of the Australian auto manufacturing sector. But that’s an entirely different story requiring days and pages to delve into and cover.
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u/FingerPuzzleheaded81 6h ago
Additionally to the other comments, there was a limit on how many of the g8 and ss that could be brought over. If they passed then too hard, they also might not have been able to fill all the orders.
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u/trivletrav [][ ][=====TOYOTA=][ ][] 1988 T4R 1d ago
More recently: Dodge changing their only car to an overpriced and completely outclassed EV. I’m actually seemingly in the minority of people who think it actually looks pretty good. But man that is a historic fumble. They should have kept the challenger in production while they came out with a crossover EV to ease the pain and made the new charger EV a high performance Ioniq 5N competitor. It’s just too wild a swing at this point when there’s not really any other cars they have at the market.
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u/Lucreth2 6h ago
It looks so much better in person and in certain colors (red, white) than in pictures. It's also absolutely enormous inside other than, oddly, rear headroom which I'm pretty sure is worse than before.
But the price is obscene, the EV offering is middling, and the stupid God forsaken "fratzonic" bullshit is tragically cringe not to mention the sound itself is horridly artificial and clearly coming from a speaker. Reviewers weren't nearly harsh enough on how bad that implementation is, especially when someone else (Hyundai) has already done it correctly.
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u/Delanorix 1d ago
They sold more EV Chargers than gas Chargers in Q1.
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u/JackStraw44 ‘24 G80 M3, ‘16 981 GT4, ‘09 Carrera S, ‘01 911 Carrera 23h ago
Yes, but they sold more gas chargers AND challengers than EV chargers in Q1. The EV charger replaced both
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u/BTTWchungus J35 6AT 23h ago
Thats a pathetically low bar when the new Charger ICE variants haven't come out yet. You're comparing the EV Charger sales to a last gen product that has been produced for nearly 10 years
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u/idownvoteanimalpics 1d ago
Ford's powershift automatic transmission. Doomed an otherwise good car, the focus.
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u/ahorrribledrummer '21 Accord 2.0t, VTEC van 22h ago
It's really too bad. That gen focus was REALLY good otherwise. My ST was absolutely fabulous. Great ergonomics, all the buttons made sense and were easy to find/use. Solid amount of space in a small car. Great tight chassis especially with summer tires.
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u/Risky_Jizzness 23h ago
As someone who had a ‘14 5 speed manual focus hatch, that car was definition cheap and cheerful
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u/idownvoteanimalpics 22h ago
Excellent suspension
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u/Risky_Jizzness 22h ago
My only complaint was interior quality, stretched my back too hard once and the lumbar support springs popped.
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u/bimmervschevy 23h ago
I love my car to death but god I wish it were the 5 speed version. It’s so much fun to drive
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u/ktmrider119z '03 SVT Focus 21h ago
Im so mad i missed my chance to grab an ST. Im still driving my MK1 SVT and they killed the focus right before i was ready to seriously look for a replacement. Now all the used STs are either thrashed, or selling for nearly full MSRP with 60k miles
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u/ahorrribledrummer '21 Accord 2.0t, VTEC van 13h ago
If you can find one, they're pretty bulletproof. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a focus st that's been tuned/modded as long as it looks like it's been taken care of.
BUt yea the used values can be kinda nuts on them.
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u/ktmrider119z '03 SVT Focus 12h ago
Best one i can find close is a 15 with 62k on it for 20. A 10 year old car that sold for 25k new. Thats wild
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u/benzguy95 10h ago
I will never understand why they just didn’t use the Conventional 6-Speed Auto from the Fusion and Escape. Not sure If it was a Fitment issue or maybe not as good MPG’s from a Torque Converter 6 Speed compared to a DCT but I feel as though if it had that, it would’ve probably still been on sale here
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u/corkscrew-duckpenis 10h ago
My buddy had an early focus and I remember constant recalls, for the transmission and other stuff.
He finally got rid of it when his seat spontaneously reclined at highway speed.
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u/TappedOut182 2016 Tacoma 6MT, 1999 Corvette 6MT 1d ago
GM had a tendency to discontinue or otherwise stop making a car just as they got it right.
The last Impala SS was a decent hit that was sold in the final three years of the run gaining the center console in 1996, but the end was near for the rear drive platform.
The Grand National, although around for the later half of the G-body got the GNX as a send off and it was legendary. The FWS W-body never reached those heights again.
The Fiero was a very competent car at the end and the proposed 2nd gen was going to be something amazing before it was cancelled, likely due to pressure from the Corvette team of overshadowing that car’s performance.
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u/BTTWchungus J35 6AT 23h ago
The Fiero was a very competent car at the end and the proposed 2nd gen was going to be something amazing before it was cancelled, likely due to pressure from the Corvette team of overshadowing that car’s performance.
Funny how the Corvette team got so paranoid, yet Porsche has been able to keep both the Cayman and 911 from cannabilizing one another (I do recognize the Cayman has been continually handicapped in one way or another)
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 20h ago edited 13h ago
You forget CT6-V BW. They put so much money on it, but they only produced it just for one year. What a waste.
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u/ahorrribledrummer '21 Accord 2.0t, VTEC van 12h ago
The 2006 Impala SS was a full second quicker 1/4mi than the B-body from the 90s. I get your sentiment but the Impala SS did indeed live on. It evolved.
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u/TappedOut182 2016 Tacoma 6MT, 1999 Corvette 6MT 10h ago
Fair, I forgot about the FWD versions including the one they stuffed the 5.3L in.
I don’t think they captured the “coolness” of the earlier cars, certainly. But yeah, brain fart on my part, certainly.
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u/ahorrribledrummer '21 Accord 2.0t, VTEC van 10h ago
Yea those big B-bodies were awesome. I'd love to have a Roadmaster wagon.
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u/benzguy95 10h ago
All of those Body-On-Frame sedans from GM were pretty stout from ‘94 onwards when they dropped the LT1 V8 in them, but like you said, 96 would end up being the final year of the Roadmaster, Fleetwood, Caprice and Impala SS. A shame because I found those to be much better than the Panther body cars
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u/bentnotbroken96 1d ago
Chrysler's K platform was genius.
They were on the brink of bankruptcy and had enough money (barely) to design one car, when they needed to design 20. Were they great cars?
No. None of them were in any way. They were all designed on a shoestring budget, but they saved Chrysler from ruin. You can't make one platform for everything you make and expect any of them to be particularly good, but they can (and were) good enough.
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u/HiTork 21h ago
Yeah, a lot of people on Reddit (including myself) weren't around for Chrysler's first near death experience in the late '70s. Could Mopar technically be in the phase of entering their third one now?
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u/dagelijksestijl 13h ago
The very reason why Stellantis exists the way it does is because FCA spent most of the 2010s milking ancient platforms and engines (apart from increasing displacement even further) only to find that the competition was crushing them.
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u/Thomas_633_Mk2 2003 Mazda2 1.5, honey yellow 14h ago
OP did say specifically the New Yorker being put on the platform, as opposed to the K-car itself. Man isn't just looking at Mopar or no car and going "no car"
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u/JALbert '17 GLA 45, '16 Mazda 3, '97 TVR Cerbera 4.2 1d ago
I do not think Ford or GM has completely jumped the shark. They are still serious and competitive manufacturers, and obviously have been since well after what you've cited.
I don't think Stellantis has either, but I can at least see arguments being made for that.
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u/bimmervschevy 23h ago
GM - Northstar engine family, Pontiac G8/Chevy SS and Saturn as a brand. Saturn started life selling cars like what Ford would go on to do with the Focus— a US-based alternative to Japanese imports. The G8 and SS simply received no marketing whatsoever, and GM could have benefitted massively from introducing trim levels of the SS. As for the Northstar, ALL GM had to do was design a robust cooling system and not cheap out on the headstuds. Had they done that, they would have matched equivalent foreign V8s.
Ford - I can’t name one big recent issue… except for the Ford DPS6 transmission. They took what they learned with the Pinto… and threw it all in the garbage proceeding to do the exact same thing as last time.
Dodge - No Chrysler crossovers past 2010. I know some of you hate to hear that, but Chrysler needed a car that would sell to survive. And that car never came.
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u/Accurate-Nerve-9194 20h ago
The Chrysler Pacifica (the weird SUV thing) was pretty cool in my opinion, it's a shame that it got discontinued. Chrysler could use something to put their name on besides a minivan right now.
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u/the_old_coday182 ‘17 Jaguar XE 35T First Edition 1d ago
GM ditching Pontiac
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u/iseenorocks 2021 Veloster N 22h ago
I’m not sure how well it would of sold, but it would’ve been cool as hell to see the G8 ST in NA
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u/hachi2JZ Clio 182 1d ago
haven't heard the phrase "jumped the shark" before but to answer what i think you're asking, GM developing a whole new V8 from the ground up just to put it in 1200 cadillacs https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/10/heres-exactly-how-many-units-of-the-cadillac-ct6-v-were-produced/
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u/fiero-fire 23h ago
Caddy's naming schemes have been so weird for the last 15 years no one knows that they are offering some kickass cars. Their entire electric series of cars are wonderful but have the dumbest names ever. They went from the CTS and ATS once semi established over a decade to a slightly different naming conversation. They also have so many nostalgic name plates to pull from and just don't. Bring back some of the classic names
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u/4D4M-ADAM 1d ago
DISCONTINUING THE AZTEK
Y'ALL LITERALLY TURNED A TRASH BUICK INTO THE CAR OF THE FUTURE THEN BLEW IT.
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u/_The_Room 77 Cutlass Supreme 21h ago
If they kept it long enough to overlap with Breaking Bad it'd be a classic car by now.
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u/DudeWhereIsMyDuduk 2025 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon X, 6spd, 4.88s 11h ago
If it wasn't an anachronism by then it probably would've have been used - much like Marty's incredulity at the DeLorean. It works because it's weird.
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u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 5h ago
The Buick Rendezvous came after the Aztek.
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u/FF14_VTEC 1d ago
Chrysler being kept alive just to sell a minivan. They should bite into the luxury SUV market that the Escalade and the Navigator, Aviator and XT6, and Nautilus and XT5 are enjoying good sales in right now, they already have the chassis to do it. The Wagoneer should've been a Chrysler.
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u/bearded_dragon_34 ‘25 ES 350 UL, ‘05 Phaeton V8 18h ago
General Motors: the 1986 E-bodies (Oldsmobile Toronado, Buick Riviera, Cadillac Eldorado…and the related K-body Cadillac Seville). Not only did GM get bad intel that there would be fuel price spikes, causing them to drastically downsize these cars at an inappropriate time, they were poorly styled. They held onto the formal roofline for far too long, and they didn’t even look particularly premium. The Riviera, for instance, could be mistaken for an N-body Regal Somerset costing half as much.
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u/OldCarWorshipper 1995 Lexus LS400, 2002 Ford F250 7.3, many classic projects 18h ago
Those things were awful. Bad ergonomics, botched styling, and miserable build quality. Just horrible.
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u/One_Opening_8000 1d ago
The Cadillac Cimarron was pretty awful. It didn't look much different than the Chevy, Pontiac, etc. version of the same car, but they priced it like a Caddy. There was also a Chrysler TC that was supposed to make you think it was a Maserati (back when Maserati had a good reputation). It looked like a K-car with a bunch of trident Maserati logos glued all over it.
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u/rafster929 2019 Mercedes A250 23h ago
Badge engineering by all three was their biggest sin in the 80’s and 90’s.
The GM B-bodies for Chevy Caprice, Pontiac, Oldsmobile were EXACTLY the same car with different grill and lights. At least the Cadillac had a longer trunk and vestigial fins as taillights.
I’d like to think the failure to pass off a Chevrolet Cavalier as a Cadillac Cimmaron was the last straw and GM finally started to differentiate styling more in the 90’s.
Chrysler and Ford were just as bad, but selling identical cars as two brands was less of a sin than GM trying to claim Sloan’s “a brand for every budget “ strategy was still relevant when a Buick LeSabre was identical to the Park Avenue, let alone the Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Chevrolet clones.
The reason for this was to give their too many dealerships something to sell at every price point and size, but it was a cynical attempt and I’m surprised customers fell for it for so long.
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u/Yakb0 2023 RCSB F-150 8h ago
I was going to mention the Chrysler TC by Maserati, but you beat me to it.
And it wasn't just Maserati badges slapped on the car. Chrysler spent (and lost) a LOT of money making it different than the other K-cars.
Not that much better, just different.
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u/One_Opening_8000 3h ago
I believe it. I only saw 1 in the wild. Maybe they brought other customers into the showroom, but they were pretty tacky.
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u/bearded_dragon_34 ‘25 ES 350 UL, ‘05 Phaeton V8 18h ago
I think GM’s line of thought on the Cimarron was that it saw people defecting for small, spartan, relatively underpowered premium European cars, like the BMW 3 Series, the W124 Mercedes-Benz, and the Volvo 240-series, and thought, “Hey, we can do that, too.”
Never mind that those cars all had good driving dynamics, solid bones, and other attributes to recommend them. The J-body had nothing going for it and was not a good basis for a premium car, especially at a time when GM couldn’t even justify distinct body stampings to differentiate it from the Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Buick J-bodies.
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u/One_Swan2723 23h ago
The Cadillac diesel engine that was so bad it killed the idea of diesel engines in cars in america permanently
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u/Late_As_Sometimes 23h ago
Fuck Roger Smith and his GM10 plan. Nothing against the W platform, but GM should have brought the V platform (RWD) to North America instead. Yeah, with I4 & V6 engines with maybe a small cid V8 (305) as a "premium option," to replace the G bodies. Keep the supercharged 3.8.
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u/bearded_dragon_34 ‘25 ES 350 UL, ‘05 Phaeton V8 18h ago
You’re half right.
The W-body cost several billion, and GM somehow had itself convinced that those models would take 21% of the total US passenger car market. It was doomed for that reason, alone. Then, they went and released the coupes first, killing off the highly desirable RWD G-body line in the process.
As for the V-body, that’s where you’re wrong. The V-body would have had metric tooling and tolerances that were too tight for GM’s US operations (which is why the V-body Cadillac Catera was built alongside its Opel Omega sibling in Germany). It was also a premium platform, and would not have been able to be produced at a price point to compete in the important-but-competitive intermediate segment, alongside the contemporary Camry, Taurus, Accord, Maxima, Chrysler Cloud Cars, 626, etc. Really, a RWD sedan was wholly inappropriate for that segment, anyway. It would’ve been too compromised.
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u/UsedState7381 23h ago
Wet belts, although to be fair that's a shark jump for almost every single large automaker at one point in recent history
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u/Spicywolff 18 C63 S sedan- 97 C5 1d ago
Chevy Cruze diesel. Better miles per gallon, emissions legal, ready and available during diesel gate. General motors let it die on the vine and didn’t even bother capitalizing on all the diesel owners that were hurt by Volkswagen.
Chevy had an opportunity to dominate that market but instead they only made 15,000 of them and let it die on the vine. The wasted all that time plus R&D making the engine an emissions work for US market.
Chevy SS sedan. Amazing V8, offered a manual transmission. Limited slip differential. Chevy again did absolutely nothing to advertise it and once more let it die on the vine. When I worked at Chevy, it’s sat in the showroom floor and nobody wanted it. I think we were selling it for something ridiculously cheap looking back.
I should’ve bought it myself, but I went with an efficient small sedan.
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u/BetweenFourAndTwenty 1d ago
IIRC, not marketing the SS was a strategic choice on GMs part, as they were losing money on every car due to the cost of bringing them over from Australia.
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u/Spicywolff 18 C63 S sedan- 97 C5 1d ago
I think I remember hearing that on regular car reviews. That would make total sense as far as general motors doing what they do. Bring just enough in to meet contractor demands. Then just let it go quietly.
When I talk to people at GM corporate, I asked why they just let the diesel die quietly. They told me it was simply there to meet fleet emissions. And as a test bed for small engine emissions controls.
As I needed to get it straightened out for the Colorado diesel.
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u/AnonymousEngineer_ 1d ago
They did it to keep industrial peace with the UAW, because a large, rear wheel drive sedan that wasn't manufactured domestically was seen by the union as encroaching on their turf.
The SS (and its Pontiac predecessors) only existed at all because of a deal General Motors made with the Australian Government to receive subsidies.
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u/bearded_dragon_34 ‘25 ES 350 UL, ‘05 Phaeton V8 18h ago
Right. And it was a dead end, anyway, because GM shut down Australian manufacturing—and indeed Holden itself.
And GM didn’t need to advertise the SS, either. If you were the kind of customer who wanted that sort of car, you knew what it was and where to get it. Their advertising dollars were better spent on products in more-competitive markets, like the Silverado, Impala or Traverse.
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u/benzguy95 10h ago
I wish they would’ve found a way to make them state side, I thought they were a pretty formidable opponent for the LX Cars (300/Charger).
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u/ShoedJoeJackson 7h ago
They totally were and unlike the Charger iirc you could get one with a manual
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u/Slideways 12 Cylinders, 32 valves 1d ago
How many vines were there?
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u/Spicywolff 18 C63 S sedan- 97 C5 1d ago
If you open up the book of mismanagement. General Motors has killed enough vines to open a vineyard.
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u/Unusual_Advisor_970 1d ago
Chevy dropped it just before I was in the market for a decent powered sedan.
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u/Spicywolff 18 C63 S sedan- 97 C5 1d ago
To this day, I’m still kicking myself that I did not get the SS sedan stick shift in that beautiful blue they sold. But at the time I was recently out of high school and while I was making decent money.
I would’ve overextended myself. I thought a sensible little four-door would help me springboard into the future. It did but I miss an opportunity.
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u/BTTWchungus J35 6AT 23h ago
I should've forced myself into debt. Fucking car was going for $35k new
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u/Spicywolff 18 C63 S sedan- 97 C5 23h ago
I know we were selling it for basically that. In hindsight, I should’ve done it. I paid 23k OTD for A Cruze diesel new. Since nobody wanted it on the car lot.
I should’ve spent a 10 grand more and bought the SS. But hindsight, 2020
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u/Unusual_Advisor_970 3h ago
A coworker bought one just before they stopped selling it. Though the auto.
I personally like cars with power but not in your face looks.
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u/Spicywolff 18 C63 S sedan- 97 C5 3h ago
Yah the styling was sporty but not too much so. I liked that about it too.
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u/Unusual_Advisor_970 1h ago
Back in the 90's the car I wanted was the SHO. Fast but looked like a normal sedan. I could not afford it. My current car is a sedan with 330 HP so fine performance for me. But of course if I really wanted excess performance I could have gone with the right EV.
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u/HiTork 21h ago
Chevy Cruze diesel. Better miles per gallon, emissions legal, ready and available during diesel gate. General motors let it die on the vine and didn’t even bother capitalizing on all the diesel owners that were hurt by Volkswagen.
Chevy had an opportunity to dominate that market but instead they only made 15,000 of them and let it die on the vine. The wasted all that time plus R&D making the engine an emissions work for US market.
Funny thing is I definitely remember the advertising campaign for them, the one where they put a white cloth in front of the exhaust pipe and it remains clean.
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u/Spicywolff 18 C63 S sedan- 97 C5 21h ago
Too bad that was the only advertisement for it. They had such an opportunity after Volkswagen ship the bed. More power and more miles per gallon and they actually met emissions.
Such a loss opportunity
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u/bearded_dragon_34 ‘25 ES 350 UL, ‘05 Phaeton V8 18h ago
Speaking as someone who had two of the small TDI cars (‘14 Jetta SportWagen, ‘15 Golf SportWagen), GM didn’t have a prayer of capturing Volkswagen customers with its small diesels. They really shouldn’t have bothered; it was a doomed idea.
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u/dewrew80 4h ago
I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, why not? What would have kept VW owners from going after a small diesel Chevy?
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u/jmn555 23h ago
Chevy - renaming the K5 Blazer the Tahoe and then dropping the two door version.
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u/bearded_dragon_34 ‘25 ES 350 UL, ‘05 Phaeton V8 18h ago
That is the exact opposite of a marketing blunder. Two-door SUVs were a dying segment, which is why GM abandoned them (as did Ford and everyone else who offered them).
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u/Doctah_Whoopass Chairman of the Anti-LS Club 22h ago
As per usual:
GM: Finds something great and actually gets on the ball for once only to just give up halfway through and let it die. Saturn, Fiero, actually learning anything from Toyota, G8, whatever Cadillac is doing, etc.
Ford: Abandoning sedans and normal cars for faceless crossover trash. That is more personal opinion though, they know the market better than I do.
Chrysler: Not buying twice the amount of cocaine for their stash back in the eighties and slowly shitting the bed as they've weened off it. Though, I suppose it can't be that bad, Jeeps still somehow sell like hotcakes and the Hellcat existed.
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u/bearded_dragon_34 ‘25 ES 350 UL, ‘05 Phaeton V8 18h ago
I’ve said this before, but Saturn cost a full $5B just to launch the brand and factory. It was never going to make that money back, especially on low-margin, entry-level cars. It lost a further $2B over its lifespan.
Saturn was doomed and should not have existed. It wasn’t a great idea at all. I am just amazed that everyone involved was so incapable of doing basic math.
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u/Doctah_Whoopass Chairman of the Anti-LS Club 10h ago
It was the only genuinely good thing that GM had going. It was a good brand, the dealers actually cared.
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u/deja_geek 2016 Lincoln MKS 22h ago
The Fiero. Aggressively/sporty styled mid-engine (first mid-engine for GM) 2 seater. Give it boat anchors for engines. And the fuel line routing on the first model year that caused fires.
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u/_The_Room 77 Cutlass Supreme 21h ago
Don't forget that at least on some models the engine had to be lifted to change spark plugs.
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u/ChasedWarrior 22h ago
Don't forget the Olds Diesel and the Front wheel drive X cars. Also downsizing the full sized Buicks, Oldsmobile Pontiacs and Cadillacs to a smaller front wheel drive platform in 1985. Gm was in a free fall in the 80s.
Ford had transmission issues in the 2010s. Coolant issues too. All preventable.
Chrysler merging with Mercedes Benz. A merger of equals my ass!
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u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 5h ago
Also downsizing the full sized Buicks, Oldsmobile Pontiacs and Cadillacs to a smaller front wheel drive platform in 1985.
That ended up being maybe a half-misstep, as the C/H-bodies were otherwise good cars, just a little too small on the outside when Lincoln and Chrysler were still making large RWD sedans.
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u/dont-YOLO-ragequit 21h ago
GM: when they started making dealership group that suddenly got too much power and demanded to all have their own model of the same platform.
This lead to the bottom end of badge engineering where they had like 8 models of that midsize SUV and 6 different models of a minivan. Only because rural mom and pop dealers wanted the volume of a Chevy dealer while wanting Buick/GMC markups..
Mopar: pretty much the alliance with M-B. Benz never wanted Chrysler to grow, they wanted access to their cheaper suppliers while worrying that giving their up to date platforms would cheapen their silver star brand. They then starve Chrysler and give 3 old/phased out platforms that actually sell well while the rest mostly become some of the worst cars in their lineup. Cerberus does more of the same and it's known that Fiat group only wanted to speed track Their dealer network when they bought Chrysler.
Ford:IIRC a part of what killed Ford was Clay Ford Jr. Mullally and Fields managed to push for a better product but then Hackett and Farley ran it back into the ground with their cost cuttings and mercurial management.
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u/hundredjono 2021 Camaro 2SS 3h ago
GM with the "real people" ads destroyed the brand's name because everyone immediately made fun of how stupid they were.
GM with the AFM in trucks and SUVs that are still causing lifter failures.
GM facelifting the 6th gen Camaro for the 2019 model year, ruining its look, and panic-fixing the car due to backlash but the damage had already been done. The 2019 Camaro was the only model year that has that facelift everyone hated.
GM teasing a new Blazer getting everyone excited thinking it was gonna be a cool, new SUV just like the K5 was in the past but turned out to be another generic crossover.
GM getting rid of Carplay because "it can be a distraction to the driver" as one of the excuses.
GM bringing over the Holden Commodore from Australia, giving it the most mundane name "Chevy SS" instead of something cool, and never marketing the car during a time when the US market had almost no V8 sedans on sale.
In case you haven't noticed by now, I hate Mary Barra and what that lady has done to GM.
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u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 2h ago
GM teasing a new Blazer getting everyone excited thinking it was gonna be a cool, new SUV just like the K5 was in the past but turned out to be another generic crossover.
Did they ever claim it would be?
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u/hundredjono 2021 Camaro 2SS 2h ago
Everyone expected it to be something much more
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u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 2h ago
But did GM actually make those claims?
Another crossover should've been expected, given that at the time the formerly-midsize Equinox had just been downsized, so there was a gap between it and the 3-row Traverse. Then the test mule showed up and it was clearly a unibody CUV. Anyone still holding on to fantasies of a new off-roader was just setting themselves up for disappointment.
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u/hundredjono 2021 Camaro 2SS 2h ago
Another crossover should've been expected, given that at the time the formerly-midsize Equinox had just been downsized, so there was a gap between it and the 3-row Traverse.
Nobody wanted and asked for another crossover, people wanted something cooler and a worthy competitor to the Bronco and Grand Cherokee. Instead GM gave us another generic crossover that had nothing cool about it.
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u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 34m ago
Nobody wanted and asked for another crossover,
The sales numbers speak for themselves: the market overwhelmingly prefers crossovers over BOF SUVs. I agree that there's nothing very special about the Blazer CUV, but not offering something in that size segment would be like 40 years ago if they had the Cavalier and the Caprice, but no Celebrity in between.
Still, the mid-size model should've been named Trailblazer, and saved Blazer for the smaller-than-Equinox model.
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u/BTTWchungus J35 6AT 23h ago
GM not marketing their Magneride suspension enough. Pushing DoD despite clearly not being ready (still isn't)
Ford's 2V blocks having complete trash heads. Not trying hard enough to push hybrids (discontinuing the Escape hybrid only to bring it back nearly 10 years later)
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u/randopop21 18h ago
What was wrong with the Vega? I rode in a coworker's Vega back in the day. To me, it was just a car.
Oh, and he said he was going to put a V8 in it.
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u/OldCarWorshipper 1995 Lexus LS400, 2002 Ford F250 7.3, many classic projects 18h ago
Severe premature rust, engines that self-destructed at 50K miles, and awful build quality.
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u/Either-Durian-9488 17h ago
GM set passenger diesel cars back 50 years in this country with the 350 diesel. Ford- it’s the value engineering, for loves to put shit in fucked off spots with cheap hardware because it will save them 7 dollars a car Chrysler- the HEMI has faults baked into it by its inherent design hanging the whole brand on it is and always has been a bit silly
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u/TheAppropriateBoop 17h ago
Great picks....I'd add GM's decision to axe the EV1, Ford's Edsel launch fiasco, and Chrysler's reliance on badge engineering in the '80s, big misses for all three.
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u/benzguy95 10h ago
Chrysler: The 13-16 Dart.
Now let me start off by saying I actually liked the Dart and what it brought to the table when they first came out. Using the Alfa Romeo under pinnings, Offering the Abarth’s 1.4 Turbo, N/A 2.0 or 2.4 4/Cylinder, and one of the biggest touch screen radios at the time, the under seat storage on the passenger side seat. Compared to Cruze and Focus it should’ve been quite competitive. There were even talks and concepts of an SRT variant if I remember correctly.
Except FCA decided to release the cars with manuals only in the states, paired with poor reliability and timing of release, it was doomed from the start.
Funnily enough there’s been stories of unsold units being sold for the first time 5-7 years after the last one rolled off the assembly line
GM: The Second Gen Cruze, the current 6.2 V8’s blowing up.
The second Gen Cruze should’ve done better than the first, more power, technology, a hatch version etc, but it seemed to have lost its charm and by then, the crossover demand was higher than it had ever been.
Ford: The Internal Water Pump on the 3.5’s and 3.7’s. The 10 Speed Automatic, the Escape and Bronco Sport.
The latter is more of a blunder in the fact that there’s no point to offer both models at this point when I’ve seen more Bronco Sports on the road than the Escape, if Ford offers the Hybrid version in the Bronco Sport, I don’t see the Escape being on sale anymore.
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u/natesully33 F150 Lightning (EV), Wrangler 4xE 9h ago
What about the Blackwing engine? I mean the one called Blackwing, with hot-V turbos, not the LT-based engines in the current cars. I think they made it for a whole two years for the CT6-V then never put it in anything else - that's gotta be expensive.
I don't know how well it works, really I haven't heard much about the CT6-V in general. I'm gonna guess that the LTx engines will likely hold up longer than any hot-V one though.
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u/Redbulldildo '08 S80 '80 Fox Hatch '96 Hardbody '02 Impreza Hatch '05 Impreza 8h ago
I feel the need to point out, the Pinto's danger was massively overstated, and it was exactly as dangerous as the other cars in that segment in that era. It wasn't particularly flammable, it was involved in 1.6% of "All fatal accidents accompanied by some fire". It was also 1.6% of the cars on the road at the time.
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u/Impossible_Yak2361 6h ago
The fact that every manufacturer in the industry has let quality fall drastically is the biggest fault. Ecoboost engines are running into coolant and head gasket failures. Ecotec 3 cylinders are cracking water jackets before 40k. Chrysler has had electrical problems since before they started using fuel injection and has steadily grown worse since. These are just issues I'm aware of from knowing people in the industry, not being part of it
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u/Poodleape2 1h ago
Chrysler - Making the 3rd Gen new charger without a dual clutch transmission and a solid weight reduction 4Th gen new charger is electric(No Hemi?) who do they think Charger drivers are?
GM - C8 Corvette Automatic only option, hideous interior with the weird center divider. Cheap playschool interiors.
Ford - Even there fast vehicles are slow, 5.3l F-150 The Focus RS and Mustang GT where basically the same price and the Mustang had over 100 more hp!!! Knock 8K off the RS and it would have sold like some thing that sells extremely fast!
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u/ShortStrategy8412 1d ago
Ford using that terrible cvt in their sedans. It was so bad that Ford gave up on passenger cars. That might not be the only reason, but I feel it was the straw.
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u/dewrew80 3h ago
I think the only sedan Ford made that had a CVT (in the US anyways) was the Fusion Hybrid, and even then it was the "eCVT" that isn't technically a real transmission
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u/zedmaxx 18h ago
Every company who decided to ditch high quality, and high performance engines for the sissified, tin sounding hybrid or underwhelming electric
Every company thinking electric vehicles need to look like Karen from HR is the buyer, even trucks
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u/dagelijksestijl 13h ago
Underpowered and overstressed 3cyls are just a consequence of regulations. As for the EVs, that’s just a marketing decision to get early buyers wanting to make a statement on board, the same way the second gen Prius was ugly but iconic.
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u/zedmaxx 18h ago
Every company who decided to ditch high quality, and high performance engines for the sissified, tin sounding hybrid or underwhelming electric
Every company thinking electric vehicles need to look like Karen from HR is the buyer, even trucks
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u/Drzhivago138 2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab/8' HDPP 5.0, 2009 Forester 5MT 32m ago
What does this even mean?
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u/nevergonnastawp 2015 VW GTI 1d ago
Cadillac dts was garbage. Trying to go up against the 5 series with that FWD POS
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u/bearded_dragon_34 ‘25 ES 350 UL, ‘05 Phaeton V8 18h ago
Are you high? Who on earth ever tried to compare a 5 Series with a DTS? If anything, the Seville/STS would have been their 5 Series competitor, especially after it went longitude-RWD in 2004.
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u/HandyMan131 1d ago
I can tell how old you are, lol.
If you want a more modern take; GM ditching carplay, Stellantis having terrible reliability and not releasing any new vehicles for years, Ford focusing too much on the profit from trucks and commercial vans and effectively abandoning the car/small SUV market