r/classicwow • u/Kaivax Blizzard Community Manager • Mar 22 '19
News Loot Trading in Classic
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/loot-trading-in-classic/131586271
u/QuillienHS Mar 22 '19
Feels like its Chrismas every week with all these updates! +1 Blizzard.
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u/Vaztes Mar 22 '19
Is this old blizzard?
Retail is "we hear your concerns but we can't change it..."
This is "We hear your concerns here is the best fix"
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u/brokenskill Mar 22 '19
Given it's not live yet it's easier to incorporate these things I guess. Certainly is refreshing though.
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u/TastyLaserCakes Mar 22 '19
It's just as easy on live. It's a simple patch fix that's deployed on patch days.
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u/multiverse72 Mar 23 '19
Right? after months of silence, this “We took your feedback and made a decision based on that” stuff in the last week or two has been amazing
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u/kindri_rb Mar 22 '19
Excellent compromise, I'm really impressed with how seriously they've taken community feedback.
And we're getting so much information lately, here's hoping to a beta announcement or release date soon.
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u/Olmaxx Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
Absolutely nailed it. Nobody can complain here. This is fantastic news.
Edit: NO LOOT TRADING IN UBRS
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u/HumbleSupernova Mar 22 '19
Somebody will find a reason to complain.
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u/JohnCavil Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
And that's fine. This happened BECAUSE people complained. If someone still wants to complain then let them, it's all good.
I don't know when complaining about a game became this terrible thing. What's the big deal?
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u/Spindelhalla_xb Mar 22 '19
It’s ok to complain about things. It’s not ok to complain about all the things.
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u/necropaw Mar 22 '19
I do still like the idea of trading having to go through the ML (so a player can select an item to send 'back' to the ML to redistribute), but i DEFINITELY wont complain about this. Its a great middle ground, and in the vast majority of raid situations will work very well.
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u/TheRealRecollector Mar 22 '19
There won't be.
Kaivax update :
The answer to the UBRS question is: loot trading will be available in content that has a raid lock. UBRS will not have a raid lock.
A big part of loot trading (in a 2-hour window) as a solution to a concern is that raid locks require you to wait a week (or 3 days) before you can try again for the loot that was accidentally given to the wrong person.
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Mar 22 '19
Raids where guilds are filling in missing slots and PUG raids, are still affected. But that's still much better than also having it in every dungeon.
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u/Tazbomo Mar 22 '19
That's true but it's very minimal. Guilds hosting pug raids will reserve the best loot anyway.
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Mar 22 '19
The amount of people that this concept is lost on still amazes me. That and fresh recruits expecting to get fully decked out in a single raid cause they need the gear 'more'.
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u/Olmaxx Mar 22 '19
Hopefully the word will get around of the corrupt guilds on the server a few months after release so that pugs don’t join guilds who abuse the loot system during raids.
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u/the_attias Mar 23 '19
in my experiences with raiding in classic back in the day,
if you show up as a PuG to a guild's raid as a regular, they'll likely just invite you to the guild or have you on their spreadsheets for loot decisions
if you show up to a guild's raid one raid out of the 2-3 they'll likely do a week, they'll reward people who show up to every raid over you, maybe sometimes throwing you a bone if nobody in their core group needs it. sometimes they'd have you on the spreadsheets, other times you were that guy who sometimes filled a spot when they needed it
there's a reason systems like DKP were popular in classic, they incentivized showing up and allowed guilds to gear up their regulars who likely drove progress anyways.
when you get 2 drops for every boss kill, that's the only gearing system that makes sense.
again, in my experiences with classic raiding,
for progress, you typically funneled gear to your main tanks (who likely had to have perfect attendance to even be considered for the position and likely also filled leadership roles within the guild to some degree) and you prioritized the DPS and healers who showed up regularly
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u/anooblol Mar 22 '19
Every PUG raid I've been in has specific loot rules, and was on master-loot. I can't attest to other people's experience. But for me, this was the standard.
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u/fjubben Mar 22 '19
they would not run group loot there fore loot collusion isn't possible, but it resolves all miss loots, like missing who rolled the highest etc
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u/Vejret Mar 22 '19
I LOVE the solution, but I wonder what UBRS will classified as.
NOT a complaint, I'd just like some more clarity on the line drawn.4
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u/Fattens Mar 22 '19
I see you haven't met our community, prepare for months of hysterical pearl clutching.
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u/currycatastrophe Mar 22 '19
Since I didn't see anyone answer it here yet, Kaivax gave a reply regarding UBRS around 100 posts down:
"The answer to the UBRS question is: loot trading will be available in content that has a raid lock. UBRS will not have a raid lock. A big part of loot trading (in a 2-hour window) as a solution to a concern is that raid locks require you to wait a week (or 3 days) before you can try again for the loot that was accidentally given to the wrong person."
TY Kaivax!
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u/BlarpUM Mar 22 '19
The devs are addressing each and every one of our concerns guys. Not everyone will like their decisions 100%, but they're very obviously taking our input seriously and are demonstrating a willingness compromise. This is all good news.
Now, please everyone stop freaking out so much :)
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u/BringTheHammerD0wn Mar 22 '19
Kaivax!!! THANK YOU. Your community interaction and the clarity between us as the community and the developers while gatekeeping the bs away from those obviously busy devs is highly appreciated. Thanks for being such an amazing CM.
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u/JohnCavil Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
Exactly what we asked for. I'm so happy with how Blizzard is handling the feedback. Although I think all loot trading should be out of the game, including in raids, this is a great solution as well. Only real problem i see is in UBRS runs and PuG MC runs, mostly UBRS stuff. But that's a relatively minor issue at least.
And this is for anyone who says we should just "be grateful" and "stop complaining", or "blizzard knows best" or whatever nonsense has been brought up recently. This is what happens when people complain and make a fuss about something. Things actually get solved.
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u/BegaKing Mar 22 '19
Yeah I have to admit, I'm pleasantly surprised. Blizzard has genuinley been listening and it's really made me gain confidence in them
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u/Azzmo Mar 22 '19
This is what happens when people complain and make a fuss about something. Things actually get solved.
Echo that. Though I'd like to think I'm 'adamantly insisting on doing things correctly' rather than fussing or complaining ;-P
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u/TwitUno Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 23 '19
Thank you Classic Team for actually listening to your playerbase and providing us with updates!
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u/pragmas Mar 22 '19
If only the retail team was HALF as responsive to the community as the classic team...
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u/xxDamnationxx Mar 22 '19
Responsiveness to the community is what got us expansions like Warlords of Draenor and BfA
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u/TheRealRecollector Mar 22 '19
The problem with retail is not that Blizzard doesn't listen...they are listening. The problem is that the retail community is asking for the WRONG THINGS.
The retail community is the one who asked for LFG, LFR, epics for everyone, class "balance" (aka as : give everyone everything), easy access to all content, flying mounts, solo playing over raiding, faster leveling, new races, mounts, pets, etc. etc.
What did you guys expected ?
What you asked for is what you got.
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Mar 22 '19
The problem is that the retail community is asking for the WRONG THINGS.
This has happened ever since pre-TBC. Classic is different because we're not asking for expansion/new stuff or fixes for the live. This is a snapshot, far easier to implement because we know the end goal
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Mar 23 '19
Very true. People want things that make their life more convenient, not things that are good for the game experience in the long run. Understandably it is human nature to desire convenience. But fortunately we have already seen what the path of overabundant convenience leads down to, and we can decide things more wisely this time.
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u/Masterofknees Mar 22 '19
Classic is really shaping up well, I think right-click report being canned and progressive itemization are the only two requests I really have left (and the latter is more hopeful than an expectation), otherwise they've nailed a lot of the decisions they've had to make. The recent announcements and active communication has made me incredibly optimistic for Classic in general, Summer can't come soon enough.
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u/Machine_Dick Mar 22 '19
Also no sharding is a request from many people
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u/CircumcisedCats Mar 22 '19
I hope that is the one they ignore. I'd rather have sharding in the starting zones than spend 8 hours trying to collect Felix's toolbox on release day. Even the 5-10 zones would be okay. Not like guilds are formed I'm those zones or anything important. You only spend 2 or 3 hours there.
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u/Darkenmal Mar 22 '19
Exactly. Hundreds of people trying to loot the same item is no fun. I don't mind sharding (for the first few weeks) in the 1-10 zones at all.
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u/sentientgypsy Mar 22 '19
Honestly I personally I just don’t want permanent sharding, just enough to get out of the starting area. The starting areas are just so dense that we would literally spend multiple hours there.
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u/HarithBK Mar 22 '19
sharding is simply put needed for the launch and saying it is not a classic experiance is kinda false a majority of people didn't start playing on launch so the need to form a line inorder to kill a mob is not a experiance most people had.
WITH THAT SAID. blizzard still needs to properly define and limit the sharding. a mix of heavy shards, server que times and respawn timer mixing for a set ammount of time and only in the starting zones should remove this starting bump and get people going.
we need to know this so we can know what kind of experiance we are going to get.
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u/QuissyTV Mar 22 '19
This is incredibly fair and a wonderful compromise. Really happy to hear it and thank you for the update!
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u/galivet Mar 22 '19
That's a great compromise position they staked out -- one I saw mentioned on this sub many times.
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u/necropaw Mar 22 '19
Great to see posts like this!
Even better after reading quite a few comments this morning about how Blizzard will never listen to the players, etc.
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Mar 22 '19
Wow, they did it. This guy got it right just 7 hours ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/b42n1y/loot_trading_a_middle_ground/
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u/asc__ Mar 22 '19
Yeah, that guy and everyone else that said it should only be in raids. Some of which have been saying that for months.
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u/Falerian1 Mar 22 '19
I'm loving how much more Classic news we're getting in the past few days. And loving how they're responding to our feedback.
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Mar 23 '19
Sharding only in starter zones is the only other things I care about. 1-10 sharding seems very reasonable, but please don't force it through the rest of the experience. If someone on my server is in the same location as me, I want to see them and not be sharded based on population.
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Mar 22 '19
Great news! One of the side benefits of allowing loot trading in raids is that raid leadership can loot the gear and keep the raid progressing while the person that will get the gear is determined.
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u/banable_blamable Mar 22 '19
Thanks guys, great compromise. Nice to see you're listening to the concerns of the community, that's a great way to make a devoted following.
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u/Pit9 Mar 22 '19
This is a perfect compromise. I am super impressed with the classic team and the communication with the community. I would prefer no loot trading, but I completely understand the decision here. Bravo Team Classic!
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u/superstar9976 Mar 22 '19
UBRS is my main concern. I don't want it classified as a raid in this case, even though it technically is.
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u/samsy2 Mar 22 '19
a Blue just responded saying it only applies to raid with a lock out timer. UBRS does not have a lock out timer and will not be subject to the 2 hour loot rules.
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u/NomieK Mar 22 '19
I dont think its considered a raid, as you can reset it and run it over and over again, which you cant with a raid. I see it as a 10/15 man dungeon.
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u/dr_doombot666 Mar 22 '19
Classic beta hype!!! With how fast and furious they are dropping Classic news, I'm hoping a beta announcement comes soon and then an actual release date shortly after.
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u/Tribalbob Mar 22 '19
Damn, the cadence of these updates, how many has that been in the past month, like 5? 6?
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u/ElementalThreat Mar 22 '19
Thank you for continuing to listen to your future player base, Blizzard. We’re all every excited in the direction you’re taking this game. Can’t wait for more news!!
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u/Azzmo Mar 22 '19
Thanks Kaivax and team! This is going to take all the potential fear out of joining a group; the entire 'will they conspire' question is gone.
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u/Mikimao Mar 22 '19
I hope this quells some concerns the player base has regarding loot trading, as this addresses one of the concerns that came up, while providing a method to fix loot issues from raids.
Raids are a situation where this is least likely to be abused, and most likely to be used legitimately. Good call.
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u/_razorgore Mar 22 '19
This is a positive change. Although it could still negatively effect UBRS Strat and Scholo if you join any of these runs they should be Masterlooted. Any smart pug group will ML major loot bosses anyways.
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u/Kodition Mar 22 '19
Wow, they're actually listening and responding to feedback. Didn't expect for this change to be fixed at all. Outstanding move.
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u/SeriousLee91 Mar 23 '19
My solution for random items (boe) make then bind on pickup if you use need to get it. Greed is free4all and is sellable then. Do ninas can sell their boe to the merchant
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u/opiating Mar 22 '19
Looks like the old Blizzard is back. The Blizzard that cares about their games and their community. Bravo!
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u/eso18 Mar 22 '19
I was generally against Loot Trading but remembering all those time that our clumsy Guild Leader miss-cilcked put me on the fence because I still remember that back in Wotlk we were quite happy to get that change.
It's still true however that this wasn't the same for 5 men, or should I say, random parties. With a guild group, loot trading would still be fine because of missclicks (although very often this lead to people making jokes, "haha, I will ninja this... you want it back? Beg for it!). It's definitely not the same for random parties though, as even leaving aside friends and strangers... even in party of full strangers you can make a pact with someone from which both of you would benefit.
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u/MagicMert Mar 22 '19
How... How could anyone missclick loot to the wrong person? Even at fucking 15 you learn to check then double check stuff you care about. You guys were either getting diddled by your GM or you need to sit him down and name a new master looter.
Still would prefer no loot trading but hey this is a much better system and my only real issues with loot trading was dungeons becasue ill be guild raiding.
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u/HeyCubbie Mar 22 '19
Tips and Esfand are going to have heart attacks before launch. Their boners are so huge right now.
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u/TheRealRecollector Mar 22 '19
As I predicted after the announcement of 6 phase content : loot trading will be raid only.
My next prediction was about right-click reporting.
It will either be removed entirely in Classic, or a GM will actually CHECK the reports before squelching a player.
Most likely it will be the first one : ain't going to be a right-click reporting in Classic.
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u/HendersonStonewall Mar 22 '19
I just want right-click ignore. It's not a default feature in Vanilla, and typing out /ignore [name] for every gat-dang gold seller is just a pain.
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Mar 22 '19 edited Nov 09 '20
[deleted]
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u/HendersonStonewall Mar 22 '19
Right click report would be fine if none of the consequences were automated. People getting squelched or temp banned because a group of people reported them isn't cool.
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u/JosefTheFritzl Mar 22 '19
No loot trading would be best, but raid-only loot trading is at least better than having it throughout. Good improvement, from my view. Berry good.
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Mar 22 '19
So just get a raiding guild in classic and your fine in raids and that even makes the community alot better i think since u don't want to go solo in raids
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u/Ghoul-dan Mar 22 '19
Great news, very subtle solution and one we saw spring up on this sub a few times - Love it.
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u/Doajy Mar 22 '19
Wow this is actually a pretty good compromise. Seems the Classic dev team is really listening.
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u/alifewithoutpoetry Mar 22 '19
I would have been fine with it in dungeons too. But I'm fine with this solution as well. So this is likely a good solution that will at least partly please the people who were very critical of it :)
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u/mikeclav Mar 22 '19
Nailed it. Nothing but net. Grand slam. <insert additional sports reference to point acquisition here>
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u/choff97 Mar 22 '19
Time and time again, these Classic developers prove to the Classic community that they have their ears to the ground and care about the issues we vocalize. They nailed it with this compromise, and I have more and more confidence in the devs with each blue post that gets posted.
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u/InfiniteTaisuru Mar 22 '19
This makes me very happy. If only Blizzard listened to their community on all products (RIP BFA). The attention we're getting makes me certain that Blizzard is aware of how profitable and reinvigorating Classic will be for their entire brand. If the flocks of content creators migrating to make Classic WoW content didn't already make that apparent I really don't know what else would.
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u/Tsobaphomet Mar 22 '19
This is fantastic news. Only thing though, what about UBRS? Sure it's a dungeon, but you do use a raid group for it, plus they specifically said "five person content"
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u/Darkenmal Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
I can now say that I trust this dev team. Great job and keep listening to the community as you have been.
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u/lib___ Mar 22 '19
that is very very good. they are listening. they are making good decisions. i am starting to feel really comfortable about that they doong it right! <3
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Mar 22 '19 edited Oct 13 '19
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u/Scubasage Mar 22 '19
Loot trading allows for a higher chance of loot getting stolen in dungeons. You'd have people roll for loot they don't actually need (they'd generally equip a weaker green during the run) and pass it on to their friend after the run.
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u/quentinsacc Mar 22 '19
While misloots are sometimes annoying, i didnt see loot trading as necessary. Very meh about this. Steady stream of news this past week is nice though.
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Mar 22 '19
That’s a phenomenal compromise. Based on the most recent updates it appears that they really are interested in the community feedback.
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u/Vivalafry Mar 22 '19
This is a massive positive turn. Wtf is blizz actually listening. Its all coming back to me.. The dream is real
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u/scott2k44 Mar 22 '19
I think this is the perfect result. Its balanced and doesn't require blizzard to hire more staff to deal with wider issues.
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Mar 22 '19
Just a few days ago people suggesting we dare speak up on this issue were considered toxic and trolls.
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Mar 23 '19
In probs gonna get lost in the comments here but... does anybody know what date or month classic is gonna be released?
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u/WonderstruckQT Mar 23 '19
Does this mean if i win an item, i'll probably get 5 whispers from people asking to buy the item for gold?
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Mar 23 '19
No, it means that they removed that from happening. Unless you're in a raid (which has a timed lockout), in which case you PUG at your own risk, currently.
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Mar 23 '19
WoW Classic is just an excuse for them to be 'Blizzard Classic'...you know, the days when they made changes based on feedback.
This is awesome.
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u/RealFlowmastaFlam Mar 23 '19
Eh, I’m still on team “no loot trading” and this is disappointing to me.
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Mar 22 '19
The result of people abusing the system is that their name will go to shit on the server. This is a community effect and what we want in Classic. They should get infamous and lose their chance to join a good guild.
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u/ewyv5g4vzn Mar 22 '19
ninja looting isnt bound to this, it happened back then and will happen again. Loot trading conceals it thats the problem, you get to skip the reputation damage.
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u/YOUR_DEAD_TAMAGOTCHI Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
Yeah ninja looting was a part of the community flavor, made villains and enjoyable forum drama, but oh well
Edit: we will still at least have dungeon ninja looting. Rejoice!
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u/TheRealRecollector Mar 22 '19
Oh, there will STILL be ninja looters :)
Worry not about that :).
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u/YOUR_DEAD_TAMAGOTCHI Mar 22 '19
Yeah that's troo. Me suggesting ninja looting was gone was a sweeping generalization. May the scumbags commence in dungeons if not raiding
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u/Monrar Mar 22 '19
I still think a "Back to loot master" option would be a better solution tbh, but I can live with that compromise
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u/Thisisnotpreston Mar 22 '19
Waiting for the barely 10min u/EsfandTV video saying, "we did it" to come out
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u/JeffBoucher Mar 22 '19
I hope UBRS isn't considered a raid.
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u/ElementalThreat Mar 22 '19
It wasn’t in 1.12 right? I would imagine we’ll get the 5 man version of it?
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u/JeffBoucher Mar 22 '19
I can't remember that. I only really remember doing 10-15 mans.
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u/ElementalThreat Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
I started late in vanilla, February 2006, I swear I remember doing UBRS with just 5 though.
I could totally be misremembering though, I probably only played 6 or less months at 60 before BC came out.
The Leeroy Jenkins video is in UBRS, yeah? I remember going through there with 5 i think
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u/cr1t1cal Mar 22 '19
No, UBRS was a 10 man (originally 15) there is likely nothing stopping you from attempting it with 5, but I don’t remember how easy that would have been back then.
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u/ElementalThreat Mar 22 '19
Appreciate the insight, obviously it’s been awhile since I’ve been in there lol
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u/JeffBoucher Mar 22 '19
I thought it could always be done with 5 but usually wasn't because people weren't geared enough at the start for it.
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u/Mumfo Mar 22 '19
UBRS went from 40 to 15 to 10.
via https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Upper_Blackrock_Spire_(original))
📷 Patch 1.10.0 (28-Mar-2006): Capped at ten players.
- 📷 Patch 1.3.0 (07-Mar-2005):
- Capped at fifteen players.
- Some Blackrock Spire bosses will now properly display their true level, instead of being considered world bosses (who do not display level).
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u/samsy2 Mar 22 '19
a Blue just responded saying it only applies to raid with a lock out timer. UBRS does not have a lock out timer and will not be subject to the 2 hour loot rules.
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u/NomieK Mar 22 '19
I am pretty sure it will be considered a 10/15 (probably 10 as 1.12) dungeon, as it doesnt have a lockout like raids.
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u/Kaivax Blizzard Community Manager Mar 22 '19
At BlizzCon 2018, we talked about how we plan to keep loot trading in World of Warcraft Classic. We added loot trading in Wrath of the Lich King to solve a common problem: a player could accidentally loot an item meant for another player or give it to the wrong person using Master Loot. They would then have to contact Blizzard to get the item moved to the intended recipient, which might take days. We wanted to keep loot trading in WoW Classic because the end result is the same – the correct person gets the item – and it’ll save everyone time.
But we heard your concerns about the potential for abuse of the loot trading system in parties of five. It’s possible that abusive play could take the form of a group of four players colluding to deny loot to a stranger who joined their party as a pick-up. Raid groups, being much larger, come with more understanding on the part of solo players that loot distribution can depend on the whims of the many players and raid leaders who know each other.
Taking that into consideration, we’ve decided that the two-hour loot trading system in WoW Classic will only apply to soulbound gear that drops in raids. Soulbound loot that drops in five-person content will not be tradeable at any time. What we hope to do is to strike a balance between saving players time and minimizing the potential for abuse of the system. We think this approach better addresses the concerns we’ve heard from players on the subject.