r/dechonkers 9d ago

Discussion Desperate for help dechonking (info in comment)

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93 Upvotes

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21

u/raiannon 9d ago

When my cat was over 20 lbs he was also mostly sedentary. He finally started losing weight when his daily calories were dropped to 170kcal. Then he lost weight so quick I was emailing my vet to make sure it was safe to lose a lb per month.

He seems to have plateaued again so we may need to drop further.

He gets 1 5.5oz can of BFF Play wet food divided into 3 feedings, plus we use prescription blue buffalo w+d food as treats. He gets a tiny half teaspoon size scoop of those at night.

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u/raiannon 9d ago

Just realized I forgot to address getting him to move. We started things with a bird feeder attached to the large picture window behind our couch last summer. Even if he wasn't physically moving he started laying on the back staring at the birds, watching them go back and forth.

He's moved in to wand play and laser play, but that bird area just keeps getting upgraded because his absolute favorite thing in the world is stalking them through the window.

Think about ways like that to engage him mentally even if he's not ready for the physical. For awhile when he was getting more dry we used a puzzle feeder for the dry portion. It wasn't a ball he had to chase, but he had to dip his paw in and work the food out of the holes to eat it.

We also have a 5 in 1 toy from Amazon which has a wand that spins around in a circle under a cover. He loved laying next to that and batting at the wand as it went by back in his lazier days. As he got more active he started pounding at it.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Thanks for the activity and weighing suggestions. Unfortunately he isn't interested in the clear window bird feeder my MIL has at all and motorized toys either scare him or he has no interest. Food/treat related toys he won't even touch after sniffing them maybe once. He literally won't even pick his head up to look at anything interesting :(

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u/raiannon 9d ago

Poor baby. :( Hopefully once you start lowering the calories and getting some weight loss going he'll start perking up.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Yeah we've been trying for years but it sounds like the vet might be kind of negligent

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u/raiannon 9d ago

Unfortunately vets are woefully under educated on the many facets of our pets because they have to know so many things about so many animals. Unless they choose to specialize and further their own education, a lot of their information comes from product manufacturers.

Houdini was briefly misdiagnosed as diabetic and when I went down that rabbit hole I found that many vets get only a handful of days worth of training on nutrition for cats.

Just keep advocating for him, and if you find a vet willing to learn they're worth more than a vet who already knows everything. Find resources like this forum and teach yourself so you can ask smart questions.

And keep in mind it's a marathon, not a race (but it should go quicker than it has gone) so don't get discouraged! We spent about 6 months slowly lowering the kcals for ours with barely any weight movement until we hit the magic number and he lost just under 4 lbs in 4 months.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Thank you for the great advice, it's great just to hear this isn't normal and okay. We're working on shopping around for a new vet right now.

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u/MsEllaSimone 9d ago

He’s not going to be active when he’s that over weight. It’ll be exhausting and painful.

Sorry, but your vet is an idiot for telling you to keep over feeding your cat! Get a new one.

When I adopted my orange boy he was 23lbs and would hardly move.

I got rid of all dry food from his diet as less satiating and more calorie dense (I would get some royal Canin satiety kibble and use as treats occasionally- like 6 pieces every few days and this I would throw a piece at a time up the stairs - the only way he would run).

His wet food was always grain free/high protein/human grade meat, but didn’t provide enough volume to stop his hunger so I mix chia seed gel into his food for extra bulk/fibre/amino acids/hydration.

50/50 by volume (half a can of food, mixed with half a can of chia gel).

This meant he would have 4 decent sized meals a day for the same calories as two and wouldn’t ever be starving.

He lost 13 lbs so far and now runs and plays, and unfortunately is now thin enough to jump into the counter to steal my naturally-thin cats food (he’s still greedy!)

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Wow, that's amazing. We've just been going based on what the vet said and I had read online a 20 lb cat should be under 300cals for weight loss, so I guess we never questioned it. The vet has been pretty unhelpful so I'm not surprised her info might not have been totally accurate.

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u/raiannon 9d ago

If you're not weighing him at home, I highly recommend getting a luggage scale and weighing him weekly in his carrier. (Hang the carrier from the scale hook, tare it with the carrier, add the cat to the carrier and voila cat weight) We tried all of the baby scales and he just didn't fit well and so the numbers didn't seem accurate.

Once you have a way to weigh him, start cutting back the food slowly, seeing if his weight changes, adjust again. The main thing with cats is to make sure they're not losing too fast (forgive me I can't remember the percent per week you want to stay below but it should be in the big fat dechonkers guide). Dropping too fast can cause liver issues, that's why it's a good idea to weight them weekly when you're adjusting the calories if you can.

Bonus to weekly carrier weighing: he has absolutely no fear or stress about his carrier now that he's used to being in it weekly with no bad effect.

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u/CallidoraBlack 8d ago

Cats that hate carriers can also be picked up and held while the human gets on the scale. You then put the cat down and weigh yourself and subtract. No special scale required in that case.

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u/raiannon 8d ago

Weighing cats this way is not recommended as human scales are not designed with the precision necessary to detect small weight changes in cats. Being a half pound off can be a huge difference in cats, but negligible in humans.

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u/CallidoraBlack 8d ago

It can be a huge difference in a tiny cat. In a 20 lb cat, I'm not so sure.

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u/raiannon 8d ago

It is significant in a 20 lb cat as well. Losing .5 lb in a week vs losing 1 lb in a week is significant and potentially dangerous to lose that quickly

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u/mandy_miss 8d ago

I put a few kibbles on my digital baby scale and position my cat over them when i set her on it. She initially shifts her rear end off the scale while still eating, and i just pick her butt up and move it back to center. Then i get i try to record the most accurate weight while she is the stillest

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u/No-Description-3111 9d ago

So, calories can be wildly misrepresented. Even if you are counting calories, it's possible you are giving them more than what it says on the food packages. You don't want to starve them, obviously, but it's hard to trust the packaging when it comes to these things. Definitely try grain free food, especially with dry food, if you haven't already. This helped dechonk my kitty. Though she is on a mostly wet food diet which also really helped with her weight.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Yeah I know pet food calorie reporting isn't very regulated. He only gets a tiny bit of dry food, is grain free actually proven to help with weight loss?

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u/No-Description-3111 9d ago

That's is what my vet told me and it seemed to work for my cat. I thought it was just like cutting out carbs.

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u/CallidoraBlack 8d ago

Cutting out carbs is about what it's like and neither is a healthy diet.

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u/CallidoraBlack 8d ago

Grain free seems to largely be a scam and has been linked to various health problems.

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u/raiannon 8d ago

For dogs, but this is a cat. Cats are carnivores. Have I missed a study linking grain free food to problems in cats?

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u/CallidoraBlack 8d ago

Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they must eat meat. It doesn't mean that it's all they are supposed to eat. It might not cause dilated cardiomyopathy in cats, but it's still a scam.

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u/raiannon 8d ago

Being obligated carnivores means they primarily eat meat and their body is adapted to use a high protein low carb diet. In the wild, if they eat any grains they're in the stomach of the prey they're eating. They don't go hunting down corn farms to munch on some cobs.

It's not a scam, the scam is people scaring everyone by saying it causes health issues without any actual evidence.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

*For anyone concerned, we have been working with a vet and behavioral specialist and are trying to switch to a more helpful vet.*

Posting on behalf of my MIL. Her cat (10yo neutered male) has been on a strict diet for about 4 years now and has only gained weight and become less active. He is currently 21 pounds (up from 20 a year ago).

Each day, per the vet's suggestions, he currently eats

- 1 purina calming care probiotics (0 cal)

- 2 small cans of Purina Pro Plan Urinary Tract Health wet food (90-95 cal each)

- 1/8 cup of Purina LiveClear dry food (70 cal)

- 5-10 Temptations treats (10-20 cal)

for a total of around 280 calories per day. According to his vet, who hasn't been very helpful, this is pretty much the minimum he can eat per day and his diet can't be restricted further. The vet has not been able to find any medical issues that would be causing him to not lose weight.

Seemingly the biggest issue is how inactive he is. We have tried absolutely everything to get this cat to move and it is nearly impossible.

He has a catio where he could watch squirrels and birds at a bird feeder, he has a hundred toys and cat trees, my MIL tries to play with him multiple times a day, and yet he barely moves all day. He doesn't seem miserable, but he shows NO interest in anything. He doesn't look out the window or watch birds, he's not curious, he doesn't interact with toys or objects, he doesn't climb or jump with the exception of onto the couch. The only moving he does is just walking between sleeping/resting spots. He isn't food motivated at all (won't play with a toy to try to get a high value treat out of it).

The most activity we've gotten him to do is go up and down the stairs one extra time by feeding him up there. Getting another cat or kitten would be an absolute last resort since he's always been an only child and we're worried about them getting along.

We're working on finding a vet who can try to help us more but we're absolutely desperate for ideas on how we can help him in the meantime. Better food brand? Special toys? Thank you in advance for any helpful suggestions!

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u/TheNightTerror1987 9d ago

Honestly, weight loss is all about food restriction, not exercise, and some cats just need a lot less food than other cats. For example, last summer I was feeding all of my cats equal amounts of food. Ella and Ivy weighed about 4.3kg / 9.46 lbs while Addie weighed in at a whopping 5.25 kg / 11.55 lbs. They're all indoor only so she can't be stealing food from anywhere and I don't feed treats regularly. I'd definitely cut back on his food. Once he starts losing weight, he'll have more energy and start playing and burn off more calories that way.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Thank you, yeah his old vet was very clear with us that he couldn't possibly eat any less food and it seems like that was all totally not true based on what people are saying. We definitely need to get a new vet and reevaluate.

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u/TheNightTerror1987 9d ago

I would go ahead and cut back on his food now, just do it gradually. Cut back a little, and if he's not a healthy weight when he stops losing weight, taper back some more, then rinse and repeat until he's a healthy weight.

I can't believe the vet's being like that, I hope you can find a sane one! I was never given any information at all about how much to feed my cats, the vets pretty much just pointed at Addie and said 'she needs to lose weight' and left me to sort it out myself. I have no idea at all of how many calories they're eating.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Wow that sounds pretty much just as bad! Thank you for the suggestions. I think we'll start cutting back and maybe look into a new dry food to transition to since his is quite high in calories.

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u/OneMorePenguin 9d ago

There's a calorie calculator linked in the dechonking guide that you can find at the top of r/dechonkers. Here's the link: https://petnutritionalliance.org/resources/calorie-calculator?type=cats

If I put in maximum chonk size, current weight of 20 lbs and eating 280 calories per day, the calculator says ideal weight is 14.3 lbs and 224 calories. It recommends a "safe" amount of weight loss.

Here's what it says about rate of weight loss.

  • Based on progress, adjustments in daily food and activity recommendations may be required to reach ideal weight with a healthy rate of weight loss for dogs of 1-2%, and cats 0.5-1% of body weight per week.

I dechonked two of mine from 17 to 12 lbs simply by switching from free feeding to two fixed meals per day of dry food. They were not super active but played some. As they lost weight they became more active.

Honestly, if my vet gave me terribly bad advice about calories and nutrition, I would look for another vet. Perhaps there are more vets at this practice that are more cat people. But honestly, a vet that sees a cat as overweight as that photo and isn't losing weight on the recommended diet, I'm not sure I want to trust them.

Please reduce his calorie count immediately. It doesn't matter what you feed him. Prescription diet food is not required. Just like people.... eat fewer calories. Although I did spend a summer working in a lab and met someone who ate saltines and what looked like broth. I asked and he said he had problems with his metabolism and was on severe calorie restriction. And he was still very large. But based on your comments about what he has been eating, his size is likely caused from overeating.

Thank you for helping your MIL get her kitty to be a healthy boy. Given that he has been overweight for many years, I would consider a joint supplement to prevent premature arthritis or mobility problems.

I look forward to future posts with his progress!

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Thank you so much for such a thorough comment! Congrats on getting yours to a healthy weight!

We definitely have been kind of fed up with the current vet's inaction for a while and are currently looking for a new one. Everyone's comments on here have made it abundantly clear that we're making the right choice by switching. It's very frustrating to know that there's more we could have been doing to help him lose weight all these years.

This guy was also a free range eater up until he got put on this current diet, so we were definitely hoping to see more progress. Hopefully we can get there by following the calculator's suggestions and with the help of a new vet.

Thank you again.

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u/OneMorePenguin 9d ago

Appreciate the kudos. Part of my punishment for allowing my boys to slowly get chonky is to help other folks get their cats onto a healthy diet and to be an advocate on cat subs to call out cats that are not "cute", but overweight. It seems like there are more people who are taking better care of the four legged family members and pointing out that it's not cute but a health issue.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

It definitely does seem to be trending in the right direction!

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u/No-Description-3111 9d ago

I was told a trick to get lazy cats to move more. Put small portions of food in multiple places. Make sure they are in a path for them to walk to and not hidden or in too random of places. This way they get exercise while eating.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

That's a good idea! That's similar to what my MIL has been doing by feeding him upstairs. It's not much activity, but it helps!

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u/raccoonsonbicycles 9d ago

I adopted a 23 pounder in December

His diet is 1/2 can blue Buffalo wet food 2x/day, plus 1 cup blue Buffalo diet care dry food 2x day (hes not a huge dry food guy so if he still has it I don't add more), and only rare treats. I only give him treats during stressful times (vacuuming) and as a game where I will get his attention, he hones in on the treat and then I wing it across the room and he SPRINTS after it

He's actually pretty active but only with specific things.

He loves: kick toys, those coil/springs toys, snakes/long things. But he only loves them when I'm actively playing with him. He will still use kick toys but much rarer. With snakes he loves when I have them on a string and have them run around, he will chase after them like a dog chases its tail. He's such a lil fat predator even after laser pointer

He also enjoys scratch pads (only cardboard squares and only sisal posts) and LOVES play tunnels -- if he's in the tunnel and anything pokes the side he goes crazy trying to catch whatever it is!

He doesn't care for: balls, feathers, birds, nature TV, electronic toys, most chew toys, most wand play.

He also loves toys with legs (octopus/squid) and will systematically rip the legs off. Just have to he careful of the material so it's not something he can chew/swallow

I also will put on long sleeves and play with him like a dog (heavy pets and belly/butt rubs) which he loves and gets all hyped up then will do kicks on my forearm (I swear it's not a bad habit because he knows the context and never attacks outside of play time)

Im also (slowly) harness training him to get him outside for walks. Its not going well, he hates rhe harness so much and usually just lays down and slinks with his belly to the ground (apparently they think they're grabbed by a predator or something)

The most challenging things:

He is used to eating a lot more, whatever his old family did fucked him up. He regularly meows for food early, late, and between meals

He associates any crinkling with treat bags so I make a point to really reduce treats because he is hyper focused on them

Its scary watching him jump up and down furniture because I worry the fat will make him hurt his limbs on a landing

I have to limit play time because he gets asthma/out of breath to the point of coughing 😭, I rushed him to the vet and they just prescribed shorter/less intense exercise

This wet food and dry food causes the most god awful poop smells

When he sleeps on my chest/neck I have trouble breathing

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

It sounds like your little guy is doing so much better now! Thank you for helping him! I wish ours was more receptive to playing, but hopefully if we can get him to lose some weight we can get him to that point.

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u/Thezza-D 9d ago

Is he an outdoorsy cat at all? It seems unlikely he could gain that much weight eating the food you outlined. I'm thinking he maybe sneaks off for treats at old lady so-and-so's place... if not then likely a serious health issue, like glands or hormones or something, or maybe he just needs less food idk. Calorie count is balanced by exercise, so if he's getting literally none then perhaps a stricter diet is needed

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

No he doesn't go outside at all, so there's no way he's sneaking extra food anywhere. He's been tested for everything that could be causing him to gain weight (according to the vet anyway) so it sounds like he just needs to be getting fewer calories.

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u/Laney20 9d ago

280 calories is the minimum?? Why? He's gaining weight on that amount. My chonker was getting around 185-200 calories a day at the most restrictive time in his diet.

He just needs to get less calories. Talk with the new vet about it I guess, but it seems like he's just getting too much food. When you do lower it, be sure to do so slowly. But I don't see any reason why he needs 280 calories..

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u/lvl1creature 9d ago edited 9d ago

I completely agree! My 18lb chonky is on 200cal per day for weight loss, so i doubt an extra couple lbs warrants 280. Edit: grammar error

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u/heyyyyygirlie 9d ago

My 18 pounders are both down two pounds from 20 after 1.5 months on ~210kcal/day. 280kcal is so high!

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Thank you!

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u/lvl1creature 9d ago

I also like to add some extra water to his wet food to help him feel more satiated without adding extra calories, he tends to be quite the beggar

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

That's a great tip, thank you

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Wow I'm very surprised. We've been asking the vet for years if there's anything else we can do and if we can feed him less and she's basically said he's on the fewest calories a cat can possibly function on. It seems like that's probably not accurate, I guess.

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u/Laney20 9d ago

Definitely not! My guy was like 18 pounds at the time, too, so it's not just that he is a smaller cat.

It's frustrating the vet would give such obviously bad advice. Clearly the cat was getting more calories than he needs because he wasn't losing weight! Vets don't get a ton of nutritional education, (vets are amazing and do a TON for multiple species that can't even talk to tell you what's wrong - not disparaging vets for not being nutritionists. Just pointing out the limitations there. Because they do so much, it's hard to go in depth on one that's maybe not critical for their day to day job.) but the simple calories in vs calories out thing should have been easy to figure out.. If he wasn't losing weight, the obvious next step is to decrease calories. Increasing activity is not really a great way to lose weight, for people or animals!

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Ugh that is so frustrating and upsetting. Poor little guy. We've been desperately asking her what more we can do for like 3 years of visits in a row and it's always just "play with him," "get him a kitten," etc.

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u/Irisinatl 9d ago

I have a cat much like this. I’ll be very interested to see what folks say. Frustrating isn’t it?

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Very frustrating. Absolutely nothing will motivate him to move except literally scaring him.

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u/IslandBusy1165 9d ago

Idk but that sounds like a lot of food to me. I need my cat to lose weight and I’m just figuring out how but that’s not any less than she eats currently.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Yeah we've just been trusting the vet, but it sounds like maybe she might be pretty off. We've been asking her for years if there's anything else we can do and she keeps saying we can't feed him any less, so I'm shocked by what people here are saying.

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u/IslandBusy1165 9d ago

Honestly you should consider another vet if that continues to be his best advice or only answer after he’s seen the weight of your cat. I’m going to do some research and fight out what j can do too but I’m sure we’ll find lots of good advice here.

Consider cutting the portions down to half a can so you go through 1/2 as much, esp if they’re 5.5 oz cans.

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

Thank you, yes we're currently getting him a new vet. We're very fed up with her basically not doing anything for four years.

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u/Corgimama60 9d ago

It doesn’t help when you’re stripy. Everyone knows you can’t wear stripes when you’re chunky! 🙄

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u/raiannon 9d ago

He's also an orange so maybe we're giving all the wrong advice.

Realistically OP should just accept that the inactivity is due to lack of the brain cell, and since all oranges have to share one single brain cell there is no solution.

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u/heyyyyygirlie 9d ago

This is one of the only toys my toy-averse old man likes. I think the bell really keeps his attention.

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u/secretagent004 9d ago

Hiiii I'm so sorry your boy is inactive. I read that he does have some dry food. Would it be worth it to put dry food in a treatball Amazon has one called the slimcat that is only $10. This will force him to at least bat the ball around to get some food out of it.

I have been successfully dechonkin my boy using the slimcat ball and monitoring how many calories he is getting. It's taken 4 years but my boy is down from 29 lbs to 20 lbs. So it is possible

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u/avrilfan12341 9d ago

That's definitely a great idea, unfortunately he won't touch or interact with any food related toys. Previously, we were worried about him not eating enough (ha ha) based on what the vet had said, but it might be worth another try since others here are saying he's eating too much.

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u/AmySparrow00 7d ago

I had to lower my 13.5 pound cat quite a lot below the recommended amount for her weight. She’s on about 180 calories now just to maintain her still overweight 11 lb.

I would get advice from another vet about less calories. For my cat I just kept very, very gradually lowering calories until she lost some. Once she leveled out I would lower again. I weigh once a week and if she stayed the same weight for two weeks in a row then I’d lower a tiny bit more.

I won’t go under 180 cal so she’s stalled out at 11 lb but that was 2 and a half pounds lost and she can groom herself and get to the top of the cat tree now, so vet and I are satisfied.