r/dsa • u/supercheetah • 2d ago
Other Just remember, we're not communists because, well, you know...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_195472
u/the1tru_magoo 2d ago
Rejecting the label will not save any of us, and certainly won’t get you off for merely being “socialist”
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u/supercheetah 2d ago
True. Democrats push for the most neoliberal policies, and still get called socialist, communists, etc.
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u/secretbudgie 2d ago
To the point voters just see them as lukewarm Republicans. Maybe they should adopt a new mascot to reflect their sleepy mini-Republican stance? Like a tapir?
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u/grandpasjazztobacco1 2d ago edited 2d ago
There are Communists in DSA though. Most members in DSA are not Communists because of DSA's roots in the student movement and Harringtonite concepts around being "the left wing of the possible." Most of the anti-Communism precedes this history and informs it, but DSA as an organization isn't "not Communist" because of the Red Scare.
The more interesting impact of the Red Scare was on organized labor specifically. That's how you end up with a generation of student radicals coming into consciousness in the late 60s and 70s that have no real connection to the trade union movement, and why the unions became so much less radical, dependent on the Democrats, and therefore vulnerable.
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u/twotokers 2d ago
A certain Austrian man made similar laws if I’m not mistaken.
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u/big_smoke69420 2d ago
The first people sent to concentration camps were actual socialists, communists, and reporters who said negative things about Hitler. Maybe do some research before commenting your BS.
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u/vicision 1d ago
what do you think they were talking about if not exactly that?
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/vicision 1d ago
where?? the comment says "a certain Austrian man made similar lawd if I'm not mistaken" in reference to Hitler outlawing the Communist Party like Eisenhower did in the link by OP
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u/No_Panic_4999 11h ago
They attacked the trans and gay identity very early as well, before thet even had full power. Queerness was one of the first targets, setting the scientific institute for Gender Studies and related libraries on fire.
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u/BrianRLackey1987 2d ago
I'm an Anti-Capitalist Progressive and nobody wants another Red Scare, nor Satanic Panic.
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u/Takadant 2d ago
Read Much 'In 1961, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the act did not bar the party from participating in New York's unemployment insurance system (Communist Party v. Catherwood). In 1973, a federal district court in Arizona decided that most of the act was unconstitutional, and Arizona could not keep the party off the ballot in the general election (Blawis v. Bolin). "
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u/supercheetah 2d ago
It's obviously unconstitutional, but we know how aggressive the American government can be against anyone calling themselves communists. At least we live in the heart of the imperial core which provides some amount of safety, but I think we should be careful to not take that for granted.
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u/Mr_Compromise 2d ago edited 2d ago
Me? A Communist? I'm apolitical. Literally just a guy. A guy that just wants to grill.
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u/future_old 1d ago
Just me and my peeps grilling. Not an online political comment section in sight. No sir.
Now that basilisk on the other hand….
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u/XrayAlphaVictor 1d ago
I'm just not a communist period, except maybe in the way that I'm a Starfleetist.
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u/No_Panic_4999 11h ago
Ironically in U.S. the first part of this poem is usually censored when Ive seen it, so that it starts with "socialists". But it actually starts:
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
Gahh sorry i cant fix the format
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u/DM-DialecticMaterial 7h ago
I went from being very frustrated by communists in DSA and feeling like they were edgey idealists whose seemingly purity politics were actively obstructive to chapter growth...
To then in good faith reflecting about how (at least the ones in my chapter) seemed very well historically read and were truly the most dedicated willing to work comrades even during the hardest of times in our chapter. And I accepted their good faith critique that comradery is a two way street, that if they're willing to engage with me and my pointed questions, that if I wanted to be honest with myself, I should try to engage with the material they recommend just as they had engaged with the material I had sourced to them.
It took time but now I'm a communist. My comrades were correct and I understand and interpret their past behavior I disliked so VERY differently now. my past preconceived ideas about communism coupled with weak efforts to Google was entirely misleading me. I know this is probably not compelling to most non-communists, but most Western communists I know had a similar experience to me. Going into the material skeptically and being willing to engage questions with other communists in good faith criticalness I feel would make more self titled socialists communists than not.
It is an accessibility issue though. American politics especially have taken definitions and history and pulverized it into a confusing soupy blender of overwhelm. And now (while still having much to learn ofc) I'm now on the same side of the fence I never thought I'd be in. As in, IM one of the annoying ones. But how the fuck do you UN-blend/reverse engineer the soup pot to someone at the same time as that person, good faith or not, having a random bowl of it and unaware of the existence of the rest of the soup pot?
"This soup is cold therefore bad. Everyone knows soup should be hot and its better that way!"
"This socialist country is authoritarian, therefore bad and not real socialism, everyone knows more political parties and one man one vote is better for democracy!"
"But if you keep the soup out itll rapidly spoil. It goes in the fridge to protect it from bacteria. You CAN reheat it when you're hungry, but that will take time."
"Socialist countries that aren't authoritarian DONT SURVIVE in a world still dominated by capitalism and imperialism. They get couped,killed and dominated. Only authoritarian states survive to keep fighting (and they DO still have democracy!) Socialism is not an overnight fully transforming endeavor. You must TRANSITION overtime away from capitalism. You can't rush the process, you will die trying to spontaneously speed run."
Clapping for the stove whenever it moves the heat dial down and booing it when it moves the heat dial up and not removing the soup from the stove itself means were slowly watching the soup get cooked away - and that's my best attempt at explaining why communists are annoying. Were pointing out the source of the pain and WOULD LOVE to preserve as much soup as possible but as history keeps repeating, putting the soup in the fridge is just too extreme for people until the burning bottom has evaporated the rest of the soup to a degree that it can't be denied anymore. Communists don't want that acceleration, the ones insisting the stove will preserve the soup and get mad when we don't rally (enable) people for turning the dial down-- from our perspective-- they are the ones accelerating the doom.
The stove top will never refrigerate your food.
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u/CaligoAccedito social anarchism 2d ago
I'm definitely not a Communist, though I respect our comrades from a lot of different philosophies. Not fond of tankies' political perspective in particular, but I'll gladly stand by their side and watch their back as we work against fascism together. We can vigorously re-examine the historical issues and political differences over coffee when the work is done.
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u/supercheetah 2d ago
"Tankies" is a strawman, but, no matter, respect.
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u/CaligoAccedito social anarchism 2d ago
Will check that out; I'm always willing to consider new viewpoints.
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u/smartcow360 1d ago
I think there is a concerning amount of support for the ccp + ussr in the dsa tbh
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u/DYMAXIONman 2d ago
I wouldn't even use the communist name because you'd have to overcome a century of propaganda.
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u/Trauma_Hawks 2d ago
Land of the free, right?