r/forhire • u/7oby Freelancer • Feb 12 '13
[Meta] New Rule: This is a job board, not a billboard. Any complaints?
I just saw a legal assistant who's done divorces for 15 years and is offering uncontested ones for $300... in Nevada. I don't think that's the point of this subreddit, and since I am pretty sure you'll all agree, I've made it a rule in the sidebar:
- please don't post if you're a lawyer or a limo/taxi rental company, this is a job board not a billboard
If you agree or disagree, please comment! I appreciate your feedback, it helps me know if we're moving in the right direction.
Posts removed today because of this (which I think you can still see): EDMReddit (1 day old user), lilraging (0 day old user), youronlinestuffcom (17 day old user), unheeding (5 years 9 days)
Screenshots: EDMReddit, youronlinestuffcom
Unheeding was apparently posting his bbq sales (what) because of this post's fascism.
(P.S., new feature: the filter for hiring, for hire, and all in the sidebar now adds results from /r/jobbit too, some employers don't post in /r/forhire as well and I {at least} think you probably want more listings available.)
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u/expandyourroots Feb 12 '13
Awesome, thank you very much for doing this.
Lets hire some redditors, not lawyers of LA who need more monies then us students!
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u/tewls Feb 12 '13
I can go to monster for a job board. I want unique interesting jobs here. Such as the gay pom illustrator job and being drawn as one of your favorite cartoons. You can't find that stuff on job board. Leave the typical stuff out imo. Is it fair? Nope, but there are 100,000,000 other sites that will be fair to those types of jobs and unfair to the unique jobs being posted here.
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
I don't understand your request. Do you want all "normal" jobs removed and only the oddball jobs remain? I wouldn't mind a subreddit for offbeat jobs, but this is more general.
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u/tewls Feb 12 '13
I guess if I was going to put a strict definition on the limits I would like to see. I would say allow unique jobs (can't really give you a strict definition there, but it's a simple enough guideline to follow in most cases I believe) and allow freelance stuff. Anything licensed/incorporated/big business already has plenty of large avenues to solicit potential customers.
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
If you wanna make an offbeat jobs subreddit, or find one, that's cool, but I really don't think your idea's going to pick up much traction here. People aren't looking for weird ways to make money, they're just looking to make money. Times is hard.
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u/tewls Feb 12 '13
That's fine. You asked for comments and I provided you with a couple. Times is always hard. I can't remember a time in history where people felt like it was too easy to make money.
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u/Nadril Feb 12 '13
I'm not entirely sure how the divorce thing is different than, say, offering to do a logo or something for $200. That being said it's not my call. I can see how some of those examples are shady but I'm still not sure I agree with this rule.
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Feb 12 '13 edited Feb 12 '13
[deleted]
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
Gladly! There are two definitions of For Hire as a verb.
- to engage the services of (a person or persons) for wages or other payment: to hire a clerk.
- to engage the temporary use of at a set price; rent: to hire a limousine.
The idea of this subreddit is to help people who want to earn money do so. The person you linked is, accurately, in the second camp, which I had originally clarified as "people who are already making a ton of money and are advertising services that are already being utilized", e.g. lawyers and (coincidentally) limousines or similar. This isn't really a "What do you do, and how much does it cost?" subreddit.
However, unfortunately this leads to issues. I'm all for freelance listings, such as the one you linked, but not for lawyers and legal assistants offering their services. Have you seen bus stop benches advertising uncontested divorce? My goal is: if you are offering a service that popular that you don't really need reddit, and it would go on a bench or billboard, then it shouldn't be here. In fact, I offered the person who advertised the $300 divorces a chance to respond to me and have me re-instate his advertisement. I have not yet received a response. (Most likely, they're not coming back.)
This isn't new, spammers frequently create one time use accounts but keep using the same domain. All of those are jobs that may/may not be legitimate, and are being posted to /r/jobs which isn't even a job board (but the spammers don't even read the sidebar, they come to the site, paste the title and url, and type 'jobs' as if it were a tag on delicious or a hashtag on twitter).
I hate to cite this Supreme Court precedent, but "I know it when I see it". The second post was a guy saying "I run a very successful company and want more business". People reported a guy the other day who said he would build your website for free, and I'm wondering if, as discussed, those posts should be eliminated too. My current thought is people will dislike the quality of the work and end up hiring someone to fix it, which creates more work, heh.
I'm going to just stop typing now and wait for a response. There's another guy who posted similar to you who also typed a lot and I'm just going to see if I can link him to this and answer his question at the same time.
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Feb 12 '13
[deleted]
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
I saw it when it was one line long, so I'm looking again. I've been doing a lot of typing in this thread so I keep having to double check.
Limit the frequency people with ANY "services for hire" can post. Every once in a while people will post the same "I'll do X" post every couple days and then it starts to feel like an advertising board.
Totally with you! I've started seeing this a bit. I'm not sure of the best way to resolve it. Once I posted a services thread in a local sub and it kinda blew up. It would be interesting if we could use the Wiki for this, but I fear that would start to expand in scope rapidly. It'd end up being like dmoz and unwieldy.
On point two:
Likewise "quickie divorce" might not be appropriate, but "Legal advice in this specific field" probably would.
This is... oddly simple. I like it. I would like to see what other people think, and it does take out a good percentage of for hire posts, but those always did feel a little off. Then again, as you said, if they're accepted why not leave them. My goal was to avoid just using this as a free advertisement board for successful people, because for one, I can't verify that they're a good divorce lawyer, and two, one in Nevada (las vegas, land of mistakes) should not have a problem finding people who got accidentally married. It's the plot of The Hangover, for chrissake.
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u/remedialrob Freelancer Feb 12 '13
Wait a second now artists and designers and bunches of other people offer their services here all the time. How is a starving artist saying... and we've all seen this one a million times... "Need to make rent this week I'll draw your family as Shrek Characters for $20 a pop" any different from a lawyer saying "need a cheap divorce I can do them in Nevada for $300" or a taxi service saying "too hammered to drive your punkass home? We'll get you there in one piece if you can foot the bill in Chicago?"
In fact, a ride home when you're drunk or a cheap divorce from a spouse with villainous intent has probably helped a lot more people than a mural of their now deceased kitty kat.
Just sayin' If you're going to further splinter up an already splintered subreddit then why not go all the way and ban all the starving artists... in fact why not ban anyone who wants to get hired for anything freelance or unrelated to the average 9-5 grind?
Where do you draw the line? And why do you get to draw it? Is't that what the up/down vote system is for?
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13 edited Feb 12 '13
I ended up typing a lot more to another guy so feel free to check it out:
Let's consolidate it into that thread.
(And as I said in the title, I'm looking for feedback just like this, so the rule is not necessarily going to stick, at least not in it's current form. I've also, when I posted this thread, messaged the other mods to see what they thought.)
P.S.
Is't that what the up/down vote system is for?
You're actually quite right. But unfortunately as you can see from /r/13Downvotes (where LibertyEqualizer will send 13 accounts to downvote "blacklisted" users automatically), there are bots on reddit, and if these posts are allowed, bot/sockpuppet accounts will be utilized to balance out the up/down vote system. Balance in the spammers favor, of course.
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Feb 12 '13
[deleted]
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13 edited Feb 12 '13
After looking at his posting history, I don't think /u/youronlinestuffcom is a kid. The domain's been registered since May 2, 2012, and he's posting a ton of comments/links. Give it a look see. I've un-spammed his post for now, but I would be happy to re-spam it. I think it had reports, but those all disappear when any action is taken, so I can't say if others thought it was spammy or not.
As well, he's not charging a one time fee, but a monthly fee.
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Feb 12 '13
[deleted]
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
I don't like that one because all he's done is signed up to post his ad and left. forhire is redditors hiring redditors. Pretty simple. And why do his links all mention pedobear!?
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Feb 12 '13
[deleted]
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
Alright, removed as spam for this reason. If he's a throwaway he'll know how to message the mods :P
I am going to go back to bed. Woke up because of some weird dream where someone was trying to hit me with a laptop in a library and bam, hit with this blow-up thread instead.
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u/BrettLefty Feb 12 '13
He's bored. And this is why he became a moderator, god damnit! Don't piss on his power parade.
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u/remedialrob Freelancer Feb 12 '13
I generally try not to piss on anything that has power... you know... cause shocks to the willy don't feel good...
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
bro, BrettLefty appears to be in /r/forhire (and on reddit in general) just to troll. I mean, someone posted that he'd PM'd the OP in a hiring thread and he went on a huge spiel about it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/forhire/comments/1893cq/hiring_web_designer/c8dajmc?context=2
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Feb 12 '13
in the name of clarity maybe it would be best to Actually add the word 'advertising' into that rule so there could be no question about it
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u/Zak Freelancer Feb 12 '13
I'm not sure that's actually clear. From my understanding of how /r/forhire is meant to work, it's perfectly fine, and not covered under the new rule to say
[For hire] I write code
but it's not fine to say
[For hire] Los Angeles DUI lawyer
Is the difference just that one is an established business with an office? Most of us can tell one from the other without a clear definition, but it might be useful to spell it out.
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
Is the difference just that one is an established business with an office?
The way I see it, kinda. I mean, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a lawyer offering uncontested divorces. Oddly people don't take photos of their ads very often (except for "life is short, get a divorce"), but I found this one that's in the vicinity of what I'm referring to.
I also saw one that charges $150-$235 a month for "search engine optimization", which leads me to think if that's acceptable, so is Charter coming in here and offering business internet for $55 a month.
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u/burnte Feb 12 '13
So, my feelings on the matter are split, both sides agreeing with you.
One: Most SEO is a scam. I'm fine with banning some types of listings from this subreddit, such as specific services and scams. I've been doing this crap for 20 years, and I remember when "SEO" became a thing, good links, descriptive names, well formed pages, etc. But like any area where success is hard to objectively measure, you wind up attracting snake oil salesmen who have miracle cures for every ailment.
Two: There's a difference between a lawyer for hire saying he specializes is some unique areas (computer crime defense, gay divorce) and common areas (no contest divorce, package wills, etc). There's a difference between an IT guy available for work, and a guy trying to push a specific package (SEO for $150-$235 a month, Jailbreak your iPhone, $40!). The former is clearly ok here, and the latter should be clearly not ok.
This is a place to advertise your availability for jobs, not for gigs. "I'm an IT guy available for hire, I have expertise in the following areas," is an ad for a job. "I can get your GoDaddy website as result #1 on Google!" is a gig.
So my sentiment boils down to this:
Jobs, not gigs. Moderators have the final say on if it's a job or a gig, no appeals.
Only physical people can advertise for services. No neocortex, no post for you. Bob Lawblaw the Lawyer and Matt the IT Monkey are fine. The Cochran Firm and Comcast, no dice.
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u/minze Feb 12 '13
devil's advocate here. both the lawyer and the SEO are services being provided. Charter selling internet is a product being sold. That's a big difference in my humble opinion.
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
I'm willing to bet that part of the monthly charges are for the domain and website hosting, but you're technically correct. Hmm. I'm going to message someone who is familiar with the SEO business and see if they'll weigh in. (I don't know if they're up, so it might be a while)
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u/minze Feb 13 '13
possibly, the way I read the ad was to get traffic to "your site". Seems to me that they are offering to help you with something you already had (the site).
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u/Zak Freelancer Feb 12 '13
"This is for individuals, not companies" seems pretty reasonable, though even then, there could be a little blurring. Let's say I, as a programmer partnered with another redditor, a designer, to offer end-to-end webapp development. That seems a bit company-like, but still appropriate.
Maybe a minimum age on the poster's reddit account for offering services would be of use. I'd suggest making it fairly high, but that might be self-serving.
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
Maybe a minimum age on the poster's reddit account for offering services would be of use. I'd suggest making it fairly high, but that might be self-serving.
This is maybe doable with AutoModerator, but it's oddly not even flairing some posts properly tagged For Hire or Hiring. It's supposed to auto-flair them based on the tag being there, and even when it's there correctly, automod is missing it. So I don't know if it'd catch/remove every post. As well, some people make alternates so they don't tie their work life into their private life. It makes it a little harder to enforce this rule, since you don't know if it's a new redditor or an old redditor's alt.
On the first part, I am with you in that it's sticky. This is a difficult to perfect rule, and I'm interested in getting as close as possible to perfect or just eliminate it. Like another said, "Is't that what the up/down vote system is for?". My worry is that the uncontested divorce guy had 6 upvotes and 3 downvotes... really an odd ratio for a divorce lawyer's ad.
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u/7oby Freelancer Feb 12 '13
How would you write the whole thing?
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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '13
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