r/heroes3 • u/thesavant • Jan 02 '25
Fluff Now that Artillery and First Aid are both decent, here's the skill/specialty we want, but not the one we deserve
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u/Pinstar Jan 02 '25
How about "Ranged units adjacent to the ammo cart can always use their ranged attack, even if an enemy unit is adjacent to them. They do not have to target adjacent units"
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u/akay13 Jan 02 '25
To expand on this, maybe...
Basic - no melee penalty
Advanced - no melee penalty, no enemy retaliation (ranged attack usable on adjacent enemy)
Expert - ranged attack usable on any target even if enemy adjacent
Other ideas...
Extra ranged attack (probably too busted)
No ranged penalty based on distance
Increased speed / shooting first
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u/Pinstar Jan 03 '25
I like those. One more:
Instead of extra shots, ranged retaliation. If your ranged units get shot by enemy ranged units, they'll attack back once for free. (Similar to melee retaliation rules)
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u/pendragonbob Jan 03 '25
They did that with inferno in HoMM5 and it is miserable. You just always attack their retaliating shooters with spells out of fear of being shot back at
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u/Graalf Jan 02 '25
What would it do?
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u/Titowam Jan 02 '25
Expert Ammo Cart should give you three additional ammo carts.
Yes, I'm aware that one ammo cart already gives you infinite ammunition, but having four ammo carts is technically better than only having one! If I started a battle with another hero and they rolled up with four ammo carts, I'd be intimidated.
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u/Salvzeri Jan 02 '25
What's this guy going to do with all that ammo?
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u/Igor369 Jan 03 '25
Put into a wagon, park under mage tower and assassinate the archmage by exploding it all at once.
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u/Salvzeri Jan 03 '25
Maybe the ammo cart was an illusion because his Barbarian knew you would try to use your mage to explode the ammo cart. But the real ammo cart is in your town.
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u/Fleara_Leflet Jan 02 '25
see, you joke, but that would make it insanely annoying for spells like chain lighting, fireball, meteor shower...
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u/GARSDESILES Jan 03 '25
Could be interesting if you could place them on the battlefield. HP could increase with the level of the hero if they are specialists.
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u/Deerdren Jan 02 '25
Would call it "Ammunition" or something like that and maybe it could reduce the number of shots for opponent's archers? 15%/30%/50% (you need to have the ammo cart)
Specialty would be able to take that to 100% which seems unreasonable, so maybe specialty gives the ammo cart extra hp (that seems pretty useless tho) or it could add like a flat % to the effect, not sure about this one.
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u/Atarosek Jan 02 '25
it could give at expert one more shot for shooters
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u/thesavant Jan 02 '25
Like how Grand Elves/Marksmen work? Diabolically OP... but I love it
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u/Real_Mokola Jan 03 '25
Grand Elves and Marksmen now shoot 3 arrows because why not
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u/pendragonbob Jan 03 '25
3 as in increase of 1.... or 4 because the other shooters get their shots doubled
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u/Atarosek Jan 02 '25
i would give it 40% max dmg taken like other specializations, and 33/67/100% for double shoot, if machine is on field
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u/Igor369 Jan 03 '25
Yeah, archery but +100%, great idea!!!!11111
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u/Atarosek Jan 03 '25
No, its depending on building, plus, i would give it resuced damage to 50% ~ and lack of positive luck
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u/KingofMadCows Jan 03 '25
Basic - Ranged units ignore 20% of target's defense.
Advanced - Ranged units can shoot after moving.
Expert - Ranged units do extra damage against closer targets. 25% bonus for a target 1 hex away, reduced by 5% for every extra hex, down to 0%.
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u/GARSDESILES Jan 03 '25
ammo cart skill could give different ammo effects that mimic spells.
1- let you place fire Wall if shooting on unoccupied space 2- slow (oil) if shooting a target or fire wall like (1). 3- slow + fire wall around target if shooting a target (oil fire arrow).
Might be hard to implement.
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u/pendragonbob Jan 03 '25
Or ammo cart skills upgrade the ballista shots. So basic = flaming ballista (more damage) Advanced = fireball ballista Expert = fireball ballista and indestructible ammo cart
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u/lucky_honeywell Jan 03 '25
I'd wish expert ammo cart would also provide Mana for the hero, not a lot but maybe a reduction cost of 2 points per turn/spell.
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u/Nice_Association1655 Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 04 '25
Since everyone’s throwing ideas I might as well add mine:
Introducing such skill would mean removing the original “gives infinite ammo” effect of the cart. Otherwise there’s not much that skill/specialty can improve about cart’s intended purpose - supplying ammunition.
Instead default cart could do something like +50% ammo for up to 2nd Tier ranged units.
Now with that in mind such skill could do:
- Basic: +50% ammo (doubles unit ammo) for up to 2nd Tier ranged units
- Advanced: +150% ammo for up to 4th Tier ranged units
- Expert: +250% for all ranged units
Maybe add bonus to cart health similarly to what hota did with tent in the last patch, so that it won’t be one-shot.
Specialty then could be something similar to “Cart Skill gets a 10% bonus for each hero level”
Now this would introduce a new dimension for ranged army focused heroes. While at it, perhaps some balancing of default ammo of each unit will be needed, to make the cart and skill more important for ranged builds.
With this setup a cart with no skill would provide a baseline benefit in early game fights, but will lose its significance down the road. And the strategies that include blocking your ranged units with other rank units or running around the field with ranged units would be less impactful, due to low ammo size. Especially for higher tier units. Ranged units would still provide nice softening of enemy ranks and support, but ultimately the main force will be melee units.
On the other hand, cart with the skill would allow you to outlast the enemy especially in a shootout 🙂
Essentially this approach would take what we have now for granted (little to no thought about ammunition) and make it a skill instead.
I think like this idea stays close enough to vanilla while expanding the mechanic to be less arcade. As well as follows the approach that other “machinery” skills use: basic usability of a machine with no skill, great potential for machine with the skill.
I feel like alternative ideas that involve increasing damage take away from/overlap with existing Archery skill that would screw balance. While other more exotic stuff strives too far from original mechanic.
Uh, I got carried away 😄 and forgot it was just a joke. Now I kinda wish there was such a feature.
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u/guest_273 Thunderbirds Jan 08 '25
Unironically I can see a Tower might class hero (Alchemist) with an Ammo cart speciality. No ammo cart secondary skill. This hero would start with either Wisdom + Archery OR Mysticism (Precision in spell book) + Archery.
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u/ThrombosMoralis Jan 02 '25
At expert level cyclops can pick up the ammo cart and throw it for massive damage