r/mildlyinfuriating • u/Alextral • 21h ago
I really hate this
Fantasy and science fiction being cramped in the same section, which is already so small :(
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u/everythingbeeps 20h ago
Wait until OP learns about the section labeled âFictionâ
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u/pink_goon 19h ago
I just wanted to find some raunchy, liberating smut. But all I keep getting is this Legolas shit!
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u/BaltazarOdGilzvita 19h ago
Fifty shades is also fiction, but you wouldn't put it in fantasy nor sci-fi. Nor you'd call it a good read, but that's beside the point...
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u/SexualDepression 19h ago
Ohhhh, I think one could make a case for "Fantasy."
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u/auntie_eggma 11h ago
Not using the meaning of the actual genre, no.
The fact that there is another meaning of the word in another context is irrelevant.
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u/anfrind 7h ago
I would categorize it as fantasy, but only because it started out as a bad Twilight fanfic.
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u/SexualDepression 10h ago
Yes, the double meaning is what makes it a quip; that's why it's witty.
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u/Ok_Difference44 20h ago
Look here, the Fiction section has Raymond Carver and Tom Clancy on the same shelf and I live with it.
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u/Bardmedicine 21h ago
There is so much crossover, why make things difficult?
Where would you put Star Wars?
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u/stfuimperialist 20h ago
The Science Fantasy section, obviously.
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u/DieselPunkPiranha 17h ago
As opposed to where you'd put Erich von Däniken's books: the fantasy science section.
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u/Mystic-Venizz 20h ago
Think it's less about the genres mixing and more about there being less space for both genres.Â
I definitely agree they have a lot of overlap
Think Star Wars is SF: Space Opera
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u/Beccalotta 18h ago
Don't know about all book stores, but our company prioritizes space based on sales. Our fantasy/scifi sections expanded as soon as ACOTAR exploded. Now that it's shifting to dark romance, that section will expand and fantasy/scifi will shrink.
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u/Average-Anything-657 16h ago
What would you consider The Expanse?
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u/Mystic-Venizz 16h ago
Not sure haven't read it!Â
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u/Average-Anything-657 16h ago
It's really good. There's also a show that covers the first 6 books, which was actually Amazon's most expensive show to produce. My wife says she likes it because "it Sci's way more than it Fi's" lol. And it's pretty faithful to the books, with only a few noteworthy changes to individual characters or events.
Most of the fictional elements are reasonable/plausible within the scope of the universe, like the scary blue alien goo and the colossal ships that took generations to build. There's also a bunch of political stuff going on between Earth's United Nations, Martians who have been focused on nothing but terraforming and military advancement since settling, and the oppressed citizens of a colonized asteroid belt who serve them both.
I highly recommend giving it a shot :)
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u/Mystic-Venizz 15h ago
Omg, I didn't realize the show was based on those books. I totally did watch the first episode of the show. A good friend of mine says it is one of the best SciFi shows. It looks really good !
I'll have to add it to my SciFi must reads.
Currently reading Hyperion, then Dune for SciFi.
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u/Average-Anything-657 15h ago
Ooh, nice! Sounds like you'll enjoy it when you get to it. And coincidentally, Hyperion's next on my list after I finish the Dexter series haha. Not exactly sci-fi, but still, I'm trying to get back into the habit of reading as much as I did as a kid.
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u/LifeLikeAGrapefruit 19h ago
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I like "speculative fiction" as something that covers the gamut. "Fiction" can take place in our world, and speculative fiction can cover everything else.
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u/BaltazarOdGilzvita 20h ago
Star Wars is like 99% fantasy. It's wizards with flaming swords in space. None of the tech is explained. None of the themes explore how tech could influence society or how the future could look like. Heck, it's not even set in the future, but A LONG TIME AGO in a galaxy far, far away...
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u/Haphazard-Finesse 19h ago
Iâd say itâs closer to 50/50. Space wizards definitely fantasy. But I think the question for sci-fi is âis this ability based on tech.â If yes, sci-fi. Everything in Star Wars other than Jedi falls into that category.Â
Then for your point, âis this tech explained in a logical, realistic way,â subdivides into hard or soft sci-fi.Â
I think a more interesting question is something like steampunk. Clearly the abilities are based on tech, but completely unrealistically in a way thatâs immediately obvious.Â
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u/alang 18h ago
 But I think the question for sci-fi is âis this ability based on tech.â
This is a perfectly good instinctual definition, but it is not the actual philosophical definition that was generally in use back in the days when people actually read SF/Fantasy novels and short stories. The definition had to do with âhere is a world that plausibly uses science â even a science that doesnât comport with that of our universe, but which at least has limits and is plausibly explained â and explores the effect of that science and setting on culture.â This can and often did mean that certain elves-and-medieval-magic novels were science fiction, because they tried to take magic, give it science-like rules, and then decide what the culture could look like in a world where e.g. some people could wield enormous power just by virtue of birthright.
Fantasy treats the things that break the rules of science as we understand them as part of the backdrop, generally in order to tell a story about heroes doing hero stuff.
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u/Madmonkeman 20h ago
Sci-Fi because of the tech. I always base it off of the tech.
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u/scotteatingsoupagain 20h ago
Fantasy, because there's no science behind that fiction
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u/TonberryHS 19h ago
You will never convince me otherwise that George Lucas misremembered mitochondria as midichlorians.
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u/PiersPlays 16h ago
I really love hard sci-fi. I don't pretend it's the only type of sci-fi that exists.
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u/noOne000Br 18h ago
itâs a space movie so sci fi.
no seriously, i feel like sci fi movies are mostly space/aliens related, tech and robots, time travel and things like that.
fantasy is more of vampires, dragons or any mythical creature.
i agree sometimes it can be both, but thatâs the general (or at least how i know it and use it) definition2
u/Madmonkeman 20h ago
Would you classify Marvel as fantasy then?
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u/scotteatingsoupagain 20h ago
Which franchises? X-Men? Yes. Captain America? Sometimes. Depends on the story. Sometimes it's both.
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u/ChronoChigger420 19h ago
See why they combine genres now?
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u/grmthmpsn43 19h ago
Ok, does Alien go in SciFi or Horror?
What about JAG in space? Crime, military drama or sci fi?
Galaxy Quest, sci fi or comedy?
Stories cross genres all the time, yet only sci fi and fantasy get lumped together.
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u/AHailofDrams 20h ago
What's the tech in The Force?
It's half sci-fi, half fantasy IMO
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u/Madmonkeman 20h ago
Well the Force is magic but the droids, lightsabers, and ships are tech. Iâd classify Star Wars as sci-fi because the overall aesthetic is futuristic. Fantasy for me would be modern day or older level of tech plus magic.
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u/RobotWantsPony 20h ago
And yet you can have science fiction in the past, that's the whole point of steampunk. Aesthetics feel like it can define the genre but it actually cannot
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u/Madmonkeman 20h ago
Fair, although Iâd consider Steampunk its own genre. The Final Fantasy game series is more complicated though because that tends to mix the two a lot.
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u/brokebackzac 20h ago
Final fantasy goes to great lengths to not be sci-fi at all. The most powerful bosses are almost all magic users, powered by magic, or created with magic and need to be destroyed with magic.
The only real exception I can think of where the final boss is a machine is FFX-2, but even Vegnagun one has its entire backstory based in magic and the Al Bhed (machina users) are treated as heathens and killed on sight throughout the first game then only mildly accepted as people in the sequel.
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u/OvalDead 19h ago
Futuristic is a pretty strange way to classify a story that is literally introduced with âA long time agoâŚâ TBH.
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u/loosie-loo 20h ago
Iâd argue lightsabers straddle the line a little bit based on their context in the story. Tbh Iâd class Star Wars as science-fantasy, itâs like halfway between the two because the âfantasyâ elements are so strongly entwined with the plot even if the aesthetic is more sci-fi - but thatâs just my opinion!
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u/road2five 20h ago
But the tech is just magic
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u/justhereforfighting 20h ago
You mean to say you don't think kyber crystals could make a rigid plasma beam that only extends a few feet before coming to a stable point? Come on now, that's SCIENCE!
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u/Bardmedicine 20h ago
And I would put it in fantasy. It is fantasy with space ships.
And we're both right :). That's the problem.
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u/GriffinXCIX 19h ago
I was looking for Star Wars High Republic books in science fiction sections of bookshops to no avail. I eventually found out they put them in a category called something like "movie adaptations" or something like that
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u/Minmax-the-Barbarian 17h ago
Exactly. Sci fi and fantasy have always been cousins, at least. Aside from very hard sci fi, they can be quite similar.
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u/fezfrascati 14h ago
Star Wars is science fantasy. Star Trek is science fiction. Star Search is a talent show.
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u/PlagiT 19h ago
I'd put it into science fiction. Yeah it has elements like the force, but the whole universe is sci-fi with all the spaceships and stuff and it focuses more on the sci-fi elements.
Fantasy is often set in the medieval times or a form of the present world, rarely focuses on the technological advances or the future and when it does it puts emphasis on stuff like technology and civilization strongly influenced by magic or other fantasy elements.
They both have a different character, I for example don't enjoy reading sci-fi nearly as much as reading fantasy and mashing genres like that makes it harder to find stuff I'm interested in, so yeah, it's annoying.
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u/ButterscotchLow7330 19h ago
Where is the "Science" in the science fiction? Maybe the droids/space ships? But everything is related to this magic power called the force. There is no "science" for it to be science fiction.
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u/PlagiT 18h ago
That's exactly the "fiction" in science fiction. It's not explained, they never went in-depth into it, but the whole universe is highly technologically advanced with interplanetary travel. The force is a big story point to be sure, but the whole world of star wars is mostly based around these technologically advanced weapons, starships and other stuff with the force being just a single factor.
I guess one could argue that the force is a really big factor in the story, but personally I'd say sci-fi / fantasy should be classified based on the universe and its world building rather than the story itself.
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u/Bardmedicine 18h ago
You are completely right and yet disagree with me. Which is my point :)
I'd argue Star Wars is high fantasy and they just replaced water/air ships with space ships and bow with blasters. It has the structure, characters, arcs of high fantasy.
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u/ButterscotchLow7330 20h ago
As someone who really enjoys fantasy and doesn't enjoy science fiction as much, I honestly don't know how you separate the two. Is Star Wars science fiction or fantasy? How about the Dark Tower? Or Dune? Stormlight archive is basically both at this point.
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u/CarefreeRambler 20h ago
Pretend you're asking a normal person, voila. Sci Fi, fantasy, sci Fi, fantasy (seriously?)
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u/Spellambrose 20h ago
Yeah I feel like people are being purposefully obtuse here, or at the very least overthinking things.
Most of the time, speculative fiction leans significantly more towards either sci-fi or fantasy, itâs rarely a 50/50.
Sure the Force is supposed to be supernatural, but Star Wars is still a space opera with tons of futuristic technology, robots and aliens. Basically anybody would classify it as sci-fi without a second thought.
Genre classification is not made to be 100% accurate, itâs bound to have blurry distinctions here and there. But itâs not made for passionate nerds who wanna be obsessively accurate and "aktually  each others for hours. Itâs a way for the general public to find what they look for, which you can easily do by separating sci-fi from fantasy.
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u/SuspensefulBladder 19h ago
100%. People on this sub will come up with the dumbest excuses to pretend that OP is wrong.
As I said in another comment, having separate sections worked just fine for literal decades and still does at your average used book store.
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u/Spellambrose 13h ago edited 8h ago
100%. People on this sub will come up with the dumbest excuses to pretend that OP is wrong.
Yeah thatâs a pattern I noticed. Everytime someone posts something that is way more than just midly infuriating, people make a remark about it.
But the second someone posts something that is actually just midly infuriating, they canât help being contradictarians for the sake of it, if not straight up acting like condescending jerks, mocking OP and invalidating any complaint they may have.
You canât win with these people, they just wanna feel smart and better than the rest no matter what.
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u/slobcat1337 13h ago
Redditors think theyâre super smart for saying Star Wars is fantasy.
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u/Raemle 18h ago
I think those definitions can make it more difficult for those not well aware of the genre tho. Stormlight can slot fairly well into fantasy sure as the sci-fi elements are minor, but then you would have to split it from other cosmere books like sunlit man. Or put those sci-fi books in the fantasy section. I personally like having the genres separate when in specialized sci-fi/fantasy bookstores but donât mind them being combined in regular ones
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u/ButterscotchLow7330 19h ago
Sure, but functionally you end up having to go through both sections anyway, because the genres do overlap. So it still makes sense to just have them combined. Also, because of the subjectivity you are going to end up having different stores classify different books differently. So yes, on the surface you can split them, but in practice it doesn't really help.
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u/loosie-loo 20h ago
Imo itâs more like a spectrum with things leaning further one way or the other, tbh. Some things are more specifically fantasy or more sci-fi but a pretty sizeable majority of media, in my opinion at least, straddles the line at least a little.
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u/Odd-Guarantee-6152 20h ago
What is sci-fi-y about Stormlight?
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u/ButterscotchLow7330 20h ago
world hopping, the "Sciency" advancements of the magic. Coming soon, as per Brandons statements, soon there will be space ships, and space travel, the latter parts of it are supposed to be more of a space opera. Mistborn era 2 felt way more science fiction to be fair, I maybe should have said "the cosmere is basically both at this point" as technically stormlight is going to be both in the following 5 series, but not right now at the end of the 5th book.
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u/dfc09 19h ago
Not related, but this comment is how I just learned there's a second series to Mistborn. Holy smokes, thanks!
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u/Schlonzig 18h ago
Itâs very simple: everything is fantasy. Except for Hard Sci-Fi, which is rare enough to be folded into the general âFictionâ section.
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u/Witch-for-hire 20h ago
Have you ever heard the term speculative fiction?
- it includes both sci-fi and fantasy (and some other genres)
Would you like it more if they chose this expression as a label?
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u/mick4state ORANGE 16h ago
What I hate more is that there's no way to separate fantasy from "romantasy" (i.e., smut in a fantasy setting). Not judging people who like "spicy" books, but they're just not for me, and it's frustrating to look for fantasy and instead find basically pornography dressed up as fantasy. Looking at you, Sarah J Maas...
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u/Alextral 16h ago
Oh yeah. But you can identify them on the sprayed edges and the roses on the cover đ đŤ
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u/capricioustrilium 21h ago
Would it be better if it was Speculative Fiction?
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u/PadishaEmperor 20h ago
Thatâs one of the genre descriptions that are especially useless in my opinion. Speculative Fiction encompasses way too much and even many books that generally arenât considered Speculative Fiction could probably be considered.
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u/phunniemee 20h ago
In my dream classification the whole giant section is called Speculative Fiction and it's graded like the Mohs scale.
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u/Miss-Mauvelous 12h ago
That's one thing I love about used book stores, seeing how they classify different books.
One I actually stopped going to once I saw how they classified books on religion. Books about Christianity went under "Religion" and all other religions (from Islam to Buddhism) went under "Occult".
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u/rinnsohma 20h ago
It's even worse when it's all shoved into YA or middle grade because adults couldn't possibly read sci-fi or fantasy đĽ˛
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u/onlyalad44 15h ago
I was at a bookstore the other day and was searching for fantasy for a while before I realized it was under "HORROR (science fiction/fantasy)"
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u/arochains1231 PURPLE 20h ago
As sci-fi lover and fantasy hater I also dislike this. Why would they lump in Ray Bradbury and Arthur Clarke in the same category as magical witches and dwarves? It makes zero sense.
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u/earth_west_420 19h ago
Bradbury and Tolkien really weren't that far apart from each other content-wise. Bradbury would always take some weird or negative human trait and speculate on its evolution 100 or 1000 years down the road. Tolkien took 2000 pages to speculate on the nature of war between different kinds of humanoids. Speculate, speculate... Huh. Is there a kind of fiction that specializes in speculation?
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u/DethMachine89 14h ago
Makes sense if their selection is small. Why have 2 shelves half full when you can have 1 full shelf?
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u/live-the-future trapped in an imperfect world 21h ago
Maybe they meant "science fiction/science fantasy". Like Star Wars.
Otherwise I agree, fantasy and sci-fi are more than distinct enough to warrant separate sections. People who lump them together don't seem to respect either as legit genres.
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u/NoForm5443 19h ago
I understand and empathize, although I love both.
The problem with separating them is that there's a ton of novels that do both, like Star Wars, some Jules Verne novels, the John Carter of Mars series etc (a ton of the early, pulp sci fi does too).
Basically, unless the science is really good, and close enough to now, science just works like magic; does it terribly matter if the robots have positronic brains, like in Asimov novels, or just a papyrus with some weird runes, like golems? It's still pure BS :)
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u/Pz38tA 20h ago
They are very hard to separate, as different people draw different lines on where sci-fi ends and fantasy begins.
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u/frichyv2 20h ago
Well it's simple really. Crazy giant monster, if it's on earth it's fantasy if it's on another planet it's sci-fi. Unless of course it was transported to earth, then it's still sci-fi. Unless it's being hunted by people with special powers, then it's fantasy, unless those special powers are from a science experiment, then it's sci-fi again. I don't see why that's so difficult for some people.
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u/Avaposter 19h ago
Itâs just been sad watching this section shrink. I miss borders. They had a great selection.
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u/LifeLikeAGrapefruit 19h ago
I don't care. I think the science fiction /fantasy distinction isn't great. I like speculative fiction. It covers all the stuff (and there's a lot) that exists between the two.
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u/Potential_Amount_267 16h ago
fantasy is what can't happen (magic, violating laws of physics, etc)
science fiction is what could happen (future tech)
source: worked in a library.
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u/karateninjazombie 12h ago
Borrowed from the internet: "Many who don't read sf/f are unaware that the two though close kin are very different. Isaac Asimov, once asked to explain the difference between science fiction and fantasy, replied that science fiction, given its grounding in science, is possible; fantasy, which has no grounding in reality, is not."
However that's a shifting goal post and one that could be considered subjective to the readers perspective somewhat too. So for a shop is far easier to stick them together and let you decide the difference. After you've brought the book, and left, of course.
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u/LongjumpingMetal5270 7h ago
I call it a Pa Wraith, or an Ori. You call it a Fire Elemental. Its still just living fire. Its actually kinda hard to find "SciFi" without any "Fantasy" in it. Little green men.... aliens or goblins? Theyre both little green men.
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u/AthenasChosen 19h ago
"Alright lets see here... we've got Star Wars, then Lord of the Rings, oh back to Game of Thrones, and now back to Leviathan Wakes"
Yeah the whiplash you get in those sections is terrible. They should absolutely be separate.
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u/VelveteenJackalope 20h ago
God the library I work at has all fantasy also labeled as sci-fi and it makes me indescribably furious. No it fucking isn't!!! This story about a chick fucking a dragon has nothing to do with sci fi fuck you!!
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u/serieousbanana 17h ago
You know what I hate even more, the slash is attached to fiction and fantasy, so it's saying science fiction / science fantasy
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u/Many-Childhood-955 19h ago
Them being small shows us why they are put together. Its cool to me. Like both genres. Black library and cixin liu next to each other depicts my taste perfectly
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u/larrackell 19h ago
YES IT'S BEEN ONE OF MY POINTLESS PET PEEVES FOR SO LONG. They're two different genres and should be treated as such!!!!!
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u/AllesIsi 16h ago
What I hate more is the fact that, very often, any story happening "in space" is classed as science fiction, despite some of these books being as fantastical as dominant latex elves gang banging troll bottoms. I am not against space fantasy, but I do not accept star wars comic books as science fiction - cause it has no connection to any science at all.
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u/ninjawhosnot 15h ago
I love a good science fantasy. I don't enjoy science fiction. Star wars is sci fantasy. So is dune. I can't think of examples but I've read stuff where it's less about the story and more about plasable science in the future. That is sci Fi and is a very different genre.
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u/Due-Supermarket-8503 21h ago
especially when i don't want to read about space i want to read about dwarves and knights and have to sift through science fiction to find the fantasy books
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u/Middle-Artichoke1850 19h ago
i really hate this for horror, which just gets sprinkled into various sections really often - most of it in the sff category, some in the mystery, and if it's fancy enough in the general fiction. Result - you can't find shit, lmao.
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u/mrzurkonandfriends 18h ago
Our local bookstore has a single stack of both used/new science fiction and fantasy. The entire wall is used mystery though.
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u/toorudez 18h ago
But where would you put the Warhammer 40k books? Are they fantasy or science fiction?
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u/YouveBeanReported 18h ago
Even more mildly infuriating is English and French book spines are in opposite directions, so if your library or store doesn't break them up by language your twisting your head back and forth.
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u/InsuranceNo3422 18h ago
It's how they list movies on the streaming services too, "science fiction/ fantasy", which I've never cared for either.
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u/ninovd 17h ago
Why does this look like American Book Store in the Netherlands đ
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u/Sir_Djynn 17h ago
Even worse is when they put everything in the "Youth/YA" section. You know, because real adults don't read those /s
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u/Usual_Ice636 17h ago
Fantasy and science fiction being cramped in the same section, which is already so small
They only get grouped together if its already a small section. When it gets bigger they get split. At least where I live.
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u/Sukeruton_Key 16h ago
Is it âScience and Fiction/Fantasyâ or âScience Fiction and Fantasyâ?
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u/zer0gab 16h ago
To me it makes sense... the fact is Science Fiction pushed to it's limit is basically Fantasy.
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u/Access_Denied2025 15h ago
I mean, isn't fantasy fictional? Like that's the whole point of a fantasy right?
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u/Dinasourus723 13h ago
I mean this is a headache for people that prefer one genre over the other or are trying to find one specific book, but for someone that likes both genres and is just browing and don't have a fixed idea on what they want to read yet then it may be fine.
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u/chomkney 13h ago
The distinction isn't strong enough. What makes something sci-fi or fantasy? Magic? Technology? What about fictional words with both?
Even the marvel universe has both. So I don't see a fine line to make the distinction.
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u/LuckyBucketBastard7 13h ago
Is this supposed to mean science fiction/science fantasy? I know science fantasy is a thing (iirc Dune was essentially the first).
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u/DUTCHBOOFER 13h ago
First time I went to Second&Charles and it's in alphabetical by author. Lmao I was disappointed.
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u/Exacerbate_ 13h ago
I mean when I think of things like Star wars, dune, lotr, dark tower, even percy jackson. Can you describe them as just fantasy? Adventure? Fiction?
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u/MasterKaen 12h ago
The Dark Tower series and the Tales of the Dying Earth would fit in both. I'm sure there are others, but yeah it doesn't feel right to combine them. Separating space operas from future history would actually be a better distinction though.
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u/Dirk_McGirken 12h ago
I went to an extremely popular used bookstore roughly the size of a B&N and their sci-fi/fantasy section was 4 half sized bookshelves in the back corner. I hate how hard it is to find a used bookstore with a decent sci-fi section that isn't just Aasimov and Bradbury. I love those authors, don't misunderstand, but I already own nearly all their books already, I want something different and preferably more recent.
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u/readditredditread 11h ago
No most science fiction is actually science fantasy, this section has both science fiction and science fantasy
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u/Amathyst-Moon 11h ago
I remember when they did that, now they don't even have a fantasy/science fiction section, they just have a fiction section along one wall. There's a few sections for non-fiction, (travel, autobiographies, etc,) and the rest is basically a gift shop.
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u/l3rdhelmet 11h ago
Is it just me or has this whole section gotten smaller and smaller over time? It used to comprise nearly 1/4 of the floor space of Barnes & Noble but now it is lucky to have two shelves. Most of what I see now is Manga and Toys. Not to denigrate Manga, but I feel like weâre losing something.
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u/ChrisRiley_42 11h ago
My local big chain bookstore doesn't "curate" their fantasy or sci-fi sections. They just get leftovers from other stores, so the only time you will ever see book 1 of any series is if there is a media tie-in with a movie or series. When you ask they tell you to use their online portal and order something.
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u/_Batteries_ 10h ago
Everytime a new bookstore opens near me, (not often but still) I go in, and they have like, 4 or 5 shelves of sci-fi and fantasy.
Then, it seems like they never restock. And as they sell the stuff, they just keep putting it on fewer and fewer shelves.
Also, if you are only going to put up 2 shelves of sci-fi and fantasy,Â
YOU DO NOT NEED TO HAVE 1 FULL SHELF OF STAR WARS, STAR TREK, ETC, AND ANOTHER 1/2 SHELF FULL OF WoT, GoT, and LotR.
THATS 2/3 OF YOUR SHELF SPACE FFS
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u/Mr_Stimmers 9h ago
This font and color choice will always scream âTrainspottingâ to me. Just bung a few Irvine Welsh novels in there and let it go.
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u/CovraChicken 8h ago
At least wheee I am in Canada Fantasy has its own section :)
I donât really read sci-fi tho so canât vouch for that.
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u/Eastern_Equal_8191 21h ago
It will never change because every inventory and marketing system in the world has had SFF hardcoded as a category since the very moment we figured out how to store data electronically.