r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor • 16d ago

News Apple Losing Over $1 Billion a Year on Streaming Service

https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-losing-over-1-billion-year-streaming-service-information-reports-2025-03-20/
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u/Over_Eagle_4013 16d ago

More than likely that MLS deal is absorbing a lot of that revenue that could be coming in. They were in talks to get college football along with more concert documentaries, and it seems they’ve already backpedaled on both.

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u/KozyHank99 16d ago

They were planning on getting the rights to air the Pac-12 for college football. Unfortunately, almost every school in the conference said no and immediately made their decision to leave for either the Big Ten, Big 12, or the ACC.

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u/BucketsMcAlister 16d ago

Nothing screams out Atlantic Coast Conference like two schools on California.

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u/Guilty_Ad_3788 16d ago

Nothing screams out Big Ten like 18 teams. Nothing screams out Big 12 like 16 teams.

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u/kkeut 16d ago

you have to admit that it is bigger than a normal ten

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u/Alt4816 16d ago

I liked the few years when the Big 10 had 12 teams and the Big 12 had 10 teams.

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u/BobbyTwoSticksBTS2 16d ago

Now it’s the All Coast Conference.

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u/mountainstosea 16d ago

Stanford and Cal choosing to send their tennis and volleyball teams to the east coast instead of signing with Apple TV+ was certainly a choice.

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u/PaulThePM 16d ago

Given the tv rights deals the ACC has versus what Apple was offering the Pac12, its certainly more profitable, and who cares about the “student athletes” when we can make some more cash?

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u/moneyinthebank216 16d ago

It was actually Arizona State’s fault. One of their Professors advised the PAC 12 commissioner that they could get a way better offer from someone else so they turned down Apple. The rest is history

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u/Alt4816 16d ago edited 15d ago

Apple was trying to get the PAC after USC and UCLA left but before Colorado announced they were leaving. That was almost a full year of the PAC trying to negotiate a new TV deal.

Then once Colorado made the move there was a stampede out the door. A week later on the same day Oregon, Washington, Utah, Arizona, and Arizona State all announced they were leaving too.

At that point any offer from the PAC was going to be for significantly less money so a month later Stanford and Cal jumped onto what they saw as the last lifeboat left.

The way it unfolded was reminiscent of the old Big East falling apart with West Virginia ending up in the Big 12. At the time that seemed crazy from a geographic aspect.

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u/Over_Eagle_4013 16d ago

It was mainly the price point of the rights offer that the bigger PAC-12 schools scoffed at. Not realizing the alternative was not having your conference streamed on anything. So they panicked, and the bigger schools went with the much higher payout. Apple’s deal was around $23 million per school. Oregon, Washington, UCLA, USC are getting $30 million a year for the first six years in the Big Ten. All was dependent on if Apple TV could get at least more subscriptions, the payout would increase, but you’re locked into a 5 year deal.

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u/thecravenone 16d ago

Rest in piss Larry Scott

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u/Schmenza 15d ago

Unfortunately? Having to switch to a separate app to check in on PAC12 games would've been miserable

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u/CynicClinic1 16d ago

MLS is kind of a bubble. It's grown but not fast enough, it's price is likely overvalued in terms of sports IP.

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u/SleazieSpleezie 16d ago

The entire league being stuck behind a $90 paywall has noticeably slowed growth of the MLS.

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u/SemioticStandard 16d ago

Are you mad? It’s done the opposite. Everyone that I’ve talked to loves that now you can get everything in the MLS, not just the games either but the recap and commentary shows, all in one place for dirt cheap. Fans previously had to deal with blackouts, games spread across different services, and awful quality streams. The AppleTV deal for MLS has been a godsend for fans.

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u/pbesmoove 16d ago

Every sports fan

"i wish I could pay one low cost and watch every match and playoffs, and tournaments, with no blackouts in HD with replays in one place"

MLS does that

"MLS is stupid"

Most people cannot think for themselves so they just repeat what the main narrative is. MLS is stupid, so anything they do is stupid.

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u/mflboys 16d ago

As an MLS fan (ATLUTD), I love the Apple TV deal.

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u/Alt4816 16d ago

It's great for people that are already fans, but it could be hurting the league's ability to grow and gain new fans.

They knew that aspect of the deal was a risk so some games are available on Fox or FS1 in addition to being on Apple.

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u/randomyzer 16d ago

I agree with previous comments, but also with your general idea.

It seems like a good idea that it would be great for MLS to have some matches available on local broadcast TV to potentially open more eyes to the league. But, I'll be honest, I don't really know anyone who even watches broadcast TV any more.

I'd probably lean toward them figuring out how to sell out every game first. Seems like that would build it's own momentum and interest which would be more valuable in the long run.

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u/Thr0waway0864213579 15d ago

I don’t see how it hurts growth potential. Are that many people really just flipping through cable television, stopping at a sports game for a league they’ve never watched, with two teams they haven’t heard of, and getting invested?

That would make sense to me back when people had a limited number of channels to watch live programming. But I don’t see how it’s a factor now.

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u/Alt4816 15d ago

I don’t see how it hurts growth potential.

People have to commit to paying $100 for a season or $15 a month before watching games and since MLS Season Pass is it's own service no one has it for other reasons. It's great for fans that $100 gives them every game with no blackouts of any kind but that's a strong barrier stopping a casual sports fan from checking out a specific game.

If someone doesn't typically watch the NBA but decides they want to watch a playoff game or some other game they have been hearing about they might be able to without buying anything depending on what services they already have. No one already has MLS Season Pass unless they are already a fan of the league. (Though this year T Mobile customers are getting the service for free so those people will have it this year even if they're not fans.)

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u/SleazieSpleezie 9d ago

It's less about channel flippers and more about sports in bars. Since the apple TV deal, none of my local bars can show the local teams game unless they sign up for the expensive broadcast package. As a season ticket holder I have seen the average attendance drop year after year since the apple TV deal. But who knows, maybe it's unrelated?

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u/Thr0waway0864213579 9d ago

A bar isn’t going to have trouble paying $80 a year.

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u/dustblown 16d ago

You are only representing the people who can afford it and who've paid for it. I haven't paid for it because I'm not sure I want it. How would I know if I want it if I can't try it? What if I pay $90 and the first game is a zero zero tie and I'm offended they still use a clock that counts upwards.

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u/fcdemergency 16d ago

You can try it. Several games a week are free to watch with no sub, and they cycle the teams pretty regularly.

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u/dustblown 16d ago

That is useful info, thanks.

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u/SleazieSpleezie 9d ago

I live right outside of Seattle, in king county. I have had season tickets since 2009 when they joined the MLS. Sure MLS fans are eating good, we get every game for a single price. I'm talking about the impact it has had on growing the sport. I live just outside Seattle and there are 0 bars around me that show the sounders matches on TV. If I want to introduce new people to the sport I have to convince them to sign up for a streaming service and then an extra on that streaming service. The kraken were in a similar spot with being locked into root sports (a premium sports+ package on cable) and they opted out for a smaller payoff on TV rights, but more local support. The sounders are locked behind apple TV, they used to be a talking point with random people, now I just get an "oh yeah. We have a soccer team"

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u/Sarah-McSarah 16d ago

It has not

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u/SleazieSpleezie 9d ago

I would love to hear a counter point.

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u/FrostyD7 16d ago

They are definitely using sports to draw in customers that would otherwise never even consider them. I know quite a few people who subscribe and are very happy with their non-sport offerings but would have never considered signing up just for that.

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u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 16d ago

Such a weird deal from the MLS perspective to me. I hardly know that many people that watch MLS, and I know even less people that have an AppleTV account

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u/MtRainierWolfcastle 16d ago

Season ticket holders get free MLS Pass too so customers that would be interested in the product get it for free.

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u/Over_Eagle_4013 16d ago

They’re truly trying to invest in the growth of MLS. Issue is you need more suitable ownership that’ll reciprocate the investment. Not just a streaming giant.

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u/manfrin 16d ago

I do think though that among the non-latino viewership of MLS, there's probably a huge overlap of ATV subscribers. I'm entirely talking out of my ass, but this is my hunch.

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u/Sarah-McSarah 16d ago

No Apple TV subscription is required to subscribe to the MLS thing

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u/randomyzer 16d ago

It must be a demo thing. I know tons of AppleTV subscribers.

I also found out you can get Season Pass without having full AppleTV. If you compare that specific product with any other major sports league's equivalent, you'll see it's actually an amazing deal.

Personally, I don't think MLS's problem is Apple... I think it's selling out games...

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u/MovieTrawler 16d ago

That's interesting. Literally everyone I know has an Apple TV account. I know this because I hear the Severance buzz everywhere I go. Work, home, friends and family. Before that it was Ted Lasso or Silo or Shrinking, etc. Point being, everyone I know has it at this point. Different circles I guess.

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u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 16d ago

Probably different circles, I wonder if it’s an age thing. I’m in my early 20s and it’s been an actual task to try and convince people to watch Severance because everyone I know thinks appletv is a joke.

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u/usctrojan18 16d ago

I think securing the MLS for the next 10 year was a great move though. Allowing Apple to get experience in broadcasting sports nationally much more frequently. RSNs are dying, and MLB is getting ready to launch its own Nationwide service in 2027/28. I think Apple makes a play for the MLB to make it a national sport again, once their next CBA deals with all the blackouts that had been plaguing fans for year. They already show Friday night and some Sunday game, and ESPN has just dropped baseball altogether starting in 2026.

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u/postal-history 16d ago

Glad to hear that about MLB. I've been perplexed by the blackout system for years, it's basically blocked me from watching my home team at all.

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u/semibiquitous 16d ago

They gave all T Mobile users free MLS season this year. $80 value. Thats big.

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u/Starsgirl97 16d ago

And next week mlbtv. Not apple specific, but both have been a T-Mobile deal for a few years.

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u/toodlelux 16d ago

You know what though, I’m following the MLS for the first time ever this season because of how accessible the service is— reasonable price and no local blackouts.

It was between Sounders and Mariners for my summer sport, and Mariners is impossible for cable cutters.

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u/hitemlow 16d ago

I can only imagine how much more price competitive streaming services would be if they dropped sportsball and live programming. Even since cable, they've been major money pits that cause the majority of service price increases.

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u/thelochteedge 16d ago

Holy shit, if Apple TV+ had CFB (in Canada) it would be an instant add for me, even if only one or two conferences.

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u/bonsai1214 16d ago

if apple wanted to show they are a player in the game, they would pay for either the premier league or champions league.

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u/manfrin 16d ago

I think the MLS deal makes sense if they had managed to make Apple Vision Pro a thing. The one part of the AVP demo that actually wow'ed me was the MLS video -- they had depth aware cameras on the goals so you legit watched the ball come in and if there were wider sports adoption of that I'd be okay dropping $3500 on that device.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/Over_Eagle_4013 15d ago

What I meant by that is T-Mobile has ran a promotion the past two years, basically making the yearly subscription free for MLS on Apple TV+, along with most of their plans including at least Apple TV+. Unless T-Mobile is absorbing those costs in the subscription pricing on behalf of Apple or MLS, it’s still a net loss.

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u/punchdrunkskunk 16d ago

MLS also lacks jeopardy on a league-wide level. No relegation/promotion hurts them, as it's a super exciting differentiator against the other US sports leagues. They also don't know how to hype games. I got a push notification to tune in to a nail-biter derby rivalry game and it was like Nashville v San Diego or something. Neither a derby, rivalry or nail biter.

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u/Sarah-McSarah 16d ago

No relegation/promotion hurts them

Haha