r/movies r/Movies contributor 1d ago

Media New Image from 'Avatar: Fire and Ash'

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1.2k Upvotes

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653

u/peter095837 1d ago

I know Avatar gets a lot of hate on reddit but I personally enjoy them for the designs and colors. It's one of those dumb fun movies to watch with pals.

604

u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast 1d ago

I don’t even think it’s dumb fun - I just think it’s simple. The stories aren’t trying to be too clever for their own good, they’re pretty straightforward, but they’re an insanely good time on the big screen.

Also the action is great IMO.

189

u/CordlessJet 1d ago

Neytiri spearing a soldier with an arrow then firing the arrow through them into another soldier was peak cinema

139

u/Few-Metal8010 1d ago

Yeah the violence in these films is underrated honestly, some awesome gruesome bonecracking maulings

The aerial armored-train robbery in Way of Water was a highlight for me.

51

u/DerelictInfinity 1d ago

The raid on the train and Jake going all Metal Gear Solid on the other avatars were honestly my favorite parts of the second movie lol

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u/realbigbob 1d ago

The Tulkun smashing the humans to pieces and slicing people in half with a cable was some of the most satisfying violence I’ve ever seen

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u/Worthyness 1d ago

Any time we get natives vs machines is a fun time. But this time, the natives also have nature as weapons

1

u/KingMario05 21h ago

Meanwhile, in Way of Water, some of them combined the nature and the weapons. It's fucking brilliant.

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u/BobertMcGee 1d ago

Don’t forget space whale avenging his lost fin.

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u/hitfly 1d ago

Him recreating the opening to ghost ship was fantastic

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u/andykekomi 1d ago

Yeah it gets a lot of crap for being a simple unoriginal story at its core but there are plenty of great movies that don't do anything revolutionary story-wise. I watch these movies for the spectacle, and it absolutely delivers on that front.

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u/EvolvedApe693 1d ago

I feel movies can get away with a simple plot by compensating with spectacle. The Avatar movies definitely do that.

21

u/Dottsterisk 1d ago

John Wick, as well.

It’s a simple, well-worn plot that serves as a vehicle for the action choreography. And it’s a helluva ride.

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u/SEND-MARS-ROVER-PICS 1d ago

Avatar gets shit on for being the same as Pocohontas, Dances With Wolves, and Ferngully, but those movies don't get shit on for being each other.

4

u/KingMario05 21h ago

Yet the audience shows up every time. Why? Because James Cameron brings the spectacle none of the others do.

3

u/DisneyPandora 1d ago

Same with Tron

1

u/Techromancy 10h ago

I don't even necessarily think it's compensating with the spectacle. There's nothing wrong with a simple, archetypical story done well, and I actually think the character development and most of the emotional beats in the second movie work really well.

Not to mention that spectacle doesn't have to just be spectacle, the sequence of Lo'ak bonding with Payakan is really sweet and does a lot to make Lo'ak not just a hot headed idiot, and then you get that beautiful shot of them swimming in tandem. It looks great obviously, but the payoff is Lo'ak finding a little sanctuary away from the new tribe with somebody who can understand how he's feeling.

1

u/dragonmp93 6h ago

Eh, what character development ?

1

u/Techromancy 5h ago

Jake grappling with trying to protect his family while honoring his wife's need to avenge her people, Jake trying to be a good dad even though his instincts as a soldier causes him to treat his sons like subordinates, Neytiri trying to assimilate to a new tribe while wanting to protect her planet and confront Quaritch, Lo'ak learning to be responsible and less impulsive while finding somebody like him who wants to fight back against the people hurting his family, Kiri's whole shit being a weird conduit of Eywa and feeling alien, Quaritch having to come to terms with his death and fear of dying again and his wanting to be a father to a child who's basically a stranger, and Miles being torn between his adopted family that doesn't fully accept him and a biological dad who's an evil goon, etc.

There's plenty of character development, even if it's not a complete arc yet.

1

u/DisneyPandora 1d ago

Why don’t people feel this way about Tron?

1

u/murrtrip 23h ago

I mean Lawrence of Arabia gets all the love, but it’s just white man saves indigenous people story all over again

0

u/Ok-Lion1661 15h ago

I thought the first one was great for this reason. However, the second one was nothing new at all and just a complete carbon copy of the first one. I expect this one to follow the exact same formula so not really very excited for it.

1

u/Techromancy 10h ago

How is it a carbon copy? Because the main villain didn't die off in the first movie of a series?

Should a series have completely different stories every movie instead of building off of the previous one?

1

u/Ok-Lion1661 9h ago

lol.. the fact you can’t see the exact same story is hilarious. Replace forest with water, replace unobtainium with magic whale brain. Fucking same story.

0

u/Techromancy 9h ago

Was he also on the run from the cloned man he killed in the first movie seeking refuge for his family and trying to adapt to the politics and lifestyle of a different tribe, and trying to weigh going to war against keeping his family safe? Did the first one heavily feature three kids coming of age and having their lives upended by said clone man?

You can reduce any movie down to nothing if you hate it enough, but you'd have to be completely media illiterate to think it's the same movie. It's the second movie in a series, they're going to have similar settings and villains.

e: The whale brain isn't even the driving plot of the movie or main motivation of the villains. Quaritch hijacks a whaling operation to get revenge, but he doesn't give a shit about eternal life. You apparently don't even know what the movie's about.

2

u/Ok-Lion1661 9h ago

Oh thanks for reminding me, the exact same villain. LOL. It’s been posted here often enough to know that the majority of people have the same feelings as I do about Avatar 2. It’s just eye candy … that’s it.

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u/GrimmHellblazer 1d ago

I agree. The last big battle at the tail end of 2 is some of the best action Cameron has done since T2.

50

u/riegspsych325 The ⊃∪⊃⪽ 1d ago

plus, Cameron utilizes the IMAX 3D combo to its fullest potential and does it well. He really knows how to give people the most bang for their buck when it comes to the theatrical experience. It’s enough to get even the most non-casual moviegoers to show up in droves

23

u/spacemanspliff-42 1d ago

I missed seeing Avatar in theaters, but I saw Way of Water in 3D IMAX and I got why it was meant to be seen that way. When it showed everyone underwater for the first time the entire theater went "Whoa" together. Incredible experience.

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u/riegspsych325 The ⊃∪⊃⪽ 1d ago

I’m sure they’ll re-release the movie before the third one comes out. Give it a shot if you can

5

u/TheShadyGuy 1d ago

If you can get a full imax it should be even better. Kicking myself for meeting a buddy in long Beach instead of going to the really good imax ast Howard Hughes for the first. Did see pacific rim there and it was absurdly awesome!

18

u/one_pint_down 1d ago

I know they're only superficially similar, but compare the final battle of Avatar 2 and Black Panther 2 and the difference in quality, pacing and storytelling... just about everything, is ridiculous.

1

u/KingMario05 21h ago

One had 15 years in development, the other hand 15 months. Time perfects everything.

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u/ClarkTwain 1d ago

It’s some of the best action anyone has done.

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u/JamarcusRussel 1d ago

Cameron is actually just such a great director of four quadrant spectacle that people watch way of water without realizing how insane the story is. The bad guys clone themselves. There’s a talking whale. A lot of the movie is dedicated to tribal politics

5

u/KingMario05 21h ago

I can't wait for the Earth battle at the end of five.

Who cares if it's dumb. I NEED the Navi swarming on a militarized District of Columbia, lol.

9

u/CeruleanEidolon 1d ago

They're ridiculously elaborate VFX showcases draped over straightforward James Cameron action movies. What's not to love here?

28

u/-KFBR392 1d ago

James Cameron might be the greatest action director of all time. Those action scenes are incredible

18

u/Chewie83 1d ago

Newer technology aside, I thought the battle at the end of the first Avatar was better because it was actually tense and not just the humans getting massacred the entire time.

16

u/BEARWISHX 1d ago

The final showdown in the first one was so satisfying in many layers. The conversations, the arrow payoff, the big robot jumps off the big ship.

7

u/TigerTerrier 1d ago

I enjoy any epic tale or journey and the world building is wonderful

4

u/bacon-squared 1d ago

These are the types of films when you watch them at home it does no justice. On the big screen they have a much bigger impact. The plot is simple but made for cinema.

9

u/Goosojuice 1d ago

Exactly. Story is simple, execution is incredible.

1

u/Maverick916 1d ago

Yeah the guy you replied to who referred to it as good dumb doesn't know what he's talking about. He just regurgitating things he's heard online and using it to try to make himself sound better than the Avatar movies

1

u/xRoyalewithCheese 1d ago

John Wick is simple to me. Avatar doesn’t try to be clever but it does pretend like we give a shit about its emotional beats, which may work for some people, but clearly the majority are not connecting with.

2

u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast 1d ago

What do you mean “clearly” the majority?

1

u/xRoyalewithCheese 1d ago

I mean it seems like the majority of people dont care for its story. That doesnt mean they dont like it for other reasons. Thats what it seems like to me.

1

u/gogodboss 20h ago

Was going to say exactly this

1

u/Vandergrif 7h ago

The stories aren’t trying to be too clever for their own good

It is a bit too... repetitive, though. The first was alright but it felt like they recycled half the plot (and almost literally recycled the villain) for the second.

Plus bro maybe the bro dialogue bro could use a bit of bro work bro.

1

u/laseluuu 1d ago

in VR 3D they are pretty jaw dropping. Also Valerian! Actually felt like a proper spiritual successor to fifth element and i dont get the hate at all at all (this is in 3D, i was awed)

and i'm a big film cynic really

-3

u/j-alora 1d ago

These movies are DUMB. Never doubt it.

-13

u/Bostonterrierpug 1d ago

They killed the bad guy by choking him… underwater. C’mon I’ve seen better Troma era fights.

19

u/CaledonianWarrior 1d ago

I personally like the worldbuilding, which is mainly why I like Avatar in the first place

1

u/Maverick916 1d ago

The second movie was amazing at this which isn't a surprise given James Cameron's love of water. I bet the third one is going to have them like captured by these bad guys and in the process see how the fire Navi act and operate

1

u/dragonmp93 6h ago

Eh, what worldbuilding ?

Both movies have spent the entire runtime showing us that the humans are chaotic evil, and the avatar aliens are living in peace with the nature until the fire nation attacked.

We don't even know if Earth being destroyed is true or just propaganda that they sell to the soldiers.

1

u/fzvw 21h ago

World building is indeed cool but it feels sterile if you can't connect with the characters or the plot

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u/idejmcd 1d ago

They're great. I loved the second film. Beautiful movies, inspired by all elements but storytelling. Even the acting rises above the crop if you place scifi fantasy schlock as the standard.

I understand why they receive a lot of criticism but I'm not gonna be bashful about it.

Oof, avatar and Snyder apologist on reddit in the same day

8

u/GOULFYBUTT 1d ago

They're the perfect "smoke a big doinker right before you enter the theater" kind of movies.

16

u/micheal213 1d ago

Soundtrack. It’s just so fucking good.

1

u/Maverick916 1d ago

From the first one, to be clear, James horner died before he could do the second one. So the second one is just a bunch of unoriginal crap and reused stuff from the original which is amazing

2

u/micheal213 1d ago

Yeah I forgot about that and I 100% noticed that in the movie. The original score is just so good. And then I remember watching some video from Ubisoft about the avatar games soundtrack and the composer was talking about being able create her own themes.

Like what?! Lady there’s already a score. Copy that.

1

u/Maverick916 1d ago

I was hopeful because the music in the first trailer was awesome

But yeah the original stuff from way of water wasn't great.

3

u/GetReady4Action 1d ago

I legitimately really liked Way of Water and what it had to say about family. if nothing else, these movies are pure eye candy and fun to look at. and they’re honestly the only movies where I feel I benefited from watching them in 3D. I was too young when the first one came out, but all I ever heard was how awesome the 3D was and was so glad I got to check it out in 3D when it got re-released. that blew me away and Way of Water took it up an entire other level visually. I’m personally stoked for Fire and Ash.

2

u/Sparrow1989 1d ago

Exactly

3

u/FriedCammalleri23 1d ago

They’re visual spectacles, as far as i’m concerned they can be as dumb as they want as long as it looks good.

11

u/austine567 1d ago

They aren't even dumb, Fast and Furious is dumb, or transformers. Avatar is just basic.

-3

u/DisneyPandora 1d ago

Wrong, it’s definitely dumb like Unobtanium

3

u/Whompa02 1d ago

Life has so many other more important things to invest any emotion over. It's the perfect Saturday/Sunday afternoon theater experience imo. Just chillin watchin weird alien shit for a few hours.

Like whatever. It's utterly harmless entertainment. I like them too.

4

u/fzvw 21h ago

I know what you mean but this kind of review makes it sound like a waste of an afternoon at best

1

u/co5mosk-read 1d ago

[the standard reddit top comment]

1

u/worksafe_Joe 1d ago

They've become the movies my wife and I watch when we do mushrooms.

The first one almost gave me a panic attack when sully first wakes up as an avatar, and all the other ones with faces that look like the actors playing them. On shrooms that just really freaked me out.

10/10 experience. Met god that night.

1

u/LaunchGap 1d ago

i could've watched the middle section of avatar 2 for 3 more hours. it felt like i was watching a planet earth episode.

1

u/TerrytheMerry 1d ago

If you love the designs then you need to check out the art books, the second one in particular is amazing.

1

u/dsayre1986 1d ago

It’s well-made, enjoyable schlock. My main issue with them (besides being forgettable and rather basic) are the runtimes.

1

u/itsDoor-kun 1d ago

Avatar 2 may have had some issues but I didn't totally hate it when I saw it in theaters. I still do prefer the 1st one though

1

u/Maycrofy 23h ago

Maybe that's the meta story of these movies: they get better with every installment and they redeem their bad reputation.

1

u/KapiHeartlilly 23h ago

Love it, couldn't fully describe the plot without a rewatch but Avatar movies are just amazing tech demos that showcase what it wants to showcase, a vibrant world that truly looks otherworldly, it's a dumb fun movie and it doesn't pretend to be anything it's not.

Wish more fantasy movies were like this, it's worth the watch.

1

u/Millennial_Man 22h ago

The hate is undeserved. It’s entertainment, and for that it’s fantastic. Sure, sometimes I want to watch a challenging movie; but sometimes I just want to watch a classic good vs. evil popcorn movie. Plus, it doesn’t hurt that the visuals are incredible.

1

u/TDStarchild 22h ago

They’re a great time. A simple story with heart in an imaginative world with some of the most stunning visuals ever seen. Always down for fun blockbusters & that’s what Avatar is

1

u/moneyman2222 20h ago

If you just watch it with appreciation of the technical marvel that it is, you'll have a much better time watching it. Personally, I was geeking out about how the water moved in the last movie and even seeing blood particles flow through the water than the plot itself lol. Water is the hardest thing to simulate properly and to get the physics of it down as well as they did is amazing. Like I don't think people realize how much of a technical challenge simulating the physics of water has been for years and Avatar just pulled it off for a while movie

1

u/SupervillainMustache 19h ago

The World of Pandora is very cool.

1

u/superkickstart 14h ago

Just like with the first one, I'm going to see it in a giant movie theater with latest movie projection tech, enjoy the shit out of it and then never watch it again.

1

u/HisDudenesssss 9h ago

Tell you what I don't need in my entertainment: a gratuitous, violent, vicious hour long sequence depicting the murder of an adorable space whale. I'm not even like a militant animal conservation guy and understand humans are capable of horrible things like this, but do I need a third of a scifi movie dedicated to watching every goddamn detail of such an act? No way. Fuck the second avatar. Whatever on the first

1

u/lkn240 1d ago

The movies are whatever... but the in theater 3D experience is pretty incredible.

Worth seeing once in theater just for that. By far the best use of 3D

3

u/VulpesFennekin 1d ago

That’s how I view these movies. They aren’t high cinema, they’re basically theme park rides that you don’t have to travel for. You don’t go to Disney and expect Splash Mountain to have a profound original story.

0

u/CaptainFeather 1d ago

It's basically just space Pocahontas. Well at the first one, didn't get around to seeing the second one yet.

-11

u/Spikeu 1d ago

I agree they look really amazing sometimes but trying to connect with that last one in like a narrative sense was ROUGH. I was so bored and it was so long.

4

u/axemexa 1d ago

Yeah I really liked the first one and saw it at least 3 times at the theater including a rerelease.

The sequel looked better visually but was much less interesting for me

3

u/PM_ME_YOUR_MONTRALS 1d ago

I think the explicit intelligence of the whale creatures was less strong than the implicit connections to the beasts from the first movie. Eywa represents the natural connections and cycles we don't have the minds to percieve fully, with the film commenting on humanity's role as more active shapers of the environment in a world where Mother Earth theory is literalized. Giving this other species such a humanlike intelligence undermines some if the themes. It might have been better to show a connection with a species that wasn't such an easy analog for human intelligence. Maybe some kind of octopus that sees the world super differently? As it stands, The Company not recognizing the whales as intelligent life is kind of a needless rehash of their disregard for the Navi and Hometree.

There's a lot of value in the sequel, and I think both movies are unfairly criticized just because of their simple narratives. There's a lot to unpack and talk about. I think they could be a bit bolder with the complexity of their themes and narratives. Everything is a bit flattened ao the metaphors read super easily for all audiences.