Understanding your monarchy types

[u/LibertyMonarchist]

[u/minivergur]

You dudes seriously want this?

[u/luckac69 → u/minivergur]

Yes, Democracy leads to socialism

[u/minivergur → u/luckac69]

What exactly is it about socialism you find avoidable if this is legitimately your ideal?

[u/Upstairs_You_2272 → u/minivergur]

I am Left-Neofeudalist, I am Reactionary Socialist.

[u/minivergur → u/Upstairs_You_2272]

So Juche?

[u/Upstairs_You_2272 → u/minivergur]

In some way but more Complex, I love Juche and its extremely misunderstood, but I support Europe of 1000 Liechtenstein's and Reactionary Socialism

[u/minivergur → u/Upstairs_You_2272]

1000 juche style Liechtensteins? I'm starting to get on board

[u/whatisthisgunifound → u/luckac69]

And thats a bad thing because...?

[u/[deleted] → u/whatisthisgunifound]

economic calculation problem

[u/PM-ME-UR-uwu → u/[deleted]]

But socialist economics have shown to be superior

[u/Dependent-Quail-1993 → u/PM-ME-UR-uwu]

Ever in practice? Or only in theory?

[u/PM-ME-UR-uwu → u/Dependent-Quail-1993]

Both, ya. Redistribution has shown to improve money velocity more than austerity

[u/Dependent-Quail-1993 → u/PM-ME-UR-uwu]

Where? Honestly wondering..

[u/PM-ME-UR-uwu → u/Dependent-Quail-1993]

In the US.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/july/quantifying-the-impact-of-snap-benefits-on-the-u-s-economy-and-jobs

[u/Dependent-Quail-1993 → u/PM-ME-UR-uwu]

That's not socialism lol. I'm talking about socialist economy

[u/[deleted] → u/PM-ME-UR-uwu]

this is lie. refute the economic calculation problem

[u/PM-ME-UR-uwu → u/[deleted]]

Private entities provide as little as possible while charging as much as possible. They are inherently inefficient.

Meanwhile social welfare programs have only ever improved the velocity of the dollar in the economy.

[u/Own_Stay_351 → u/luckac69]

At least you’re not pretending that anarcho capitalism is in any way a real viable idea

[u/Triangleslash → u/Own_Stay_351]

It works great on paper though!

[u/Artillery-lover → u/luckac69]

which, id happily take over a monarchy.

[u/PM-ME-UR-uwu → u/luckac69]

Good

[u/niknniknnikn → u/minivergur]

I unironically(!) want society to be fully(!) organized like this:

"Originally, generally formed of one extended family or a clan of related families, the zadruga held its property, herds and money in common, with usually the oldest [...] member ruling and making decisions for the family, though at times he would delegate this right at an old age to one of [their children]."

With these family units being fully independent land holders(or nomadic pastoralists, or industrial property holders, whatever), having fully internal custom-based "laws".

Theese extended families are political actors that voluntarily unite(or not if they dont want to and would rather have blood feuds lmao) into larger(sometimes much larger) commonwealths, charged with organizing military action and criminal justice between the extended family units - the latter as a part of a common religious tradition that fully envelops into itself all bureaucracy that is needed for a desired level of technological sophistication a commonwealth might have.

Between each other, the commonwealth follow realpolitik, that due to darwinian pressure on the unfit societies would lead only the ones with beneficial customs to thrive

[u/mr_arcane_69 → u/niknniknnikn]

Between each other, the commonwealth follow realpolitik, that due to darwinian pressure on the unfit societies would lead only the ones with beneficial customs to thrive

Wouldn't this lead to a monopolised kingdom and eventually a state, as centralisation is generally the realpolitik custom that most benefitted the people with the power to change society.

[u/minivergur → u/niknniknnikn]

Interesting, what is your socio-economic situation today, and how do you imagine your role changing if we were to adopt this interesting ideology?

On a related note are you lonely or socially fulfilled - do you feel isolated from - or integrated in society?

[u/niknniknnikn → u/minivergur]

I feel pretty integrated into my society. I earn enough to not be worried about money. I do feel that current societal order is highly arbitrary and unstable therfore both allianating prople from reality at accelerated rates and threatening their livelihoods in the process.

In my opinion, under the system i broafly outlined,a lot more people would die, probably me included. Or not. The point is, people lived like this for 99.99% of our existence on this planet. The current societal structure clearly didn't work out. So, let's roll back and restart.

Tbc i am not speaking abut technology, only society and culture. Technology is just a measure of societal memory applied to practical tricks to do certain tasks better. It, in my opinion, can never, in itself, dictate anything societal, cultural or lifestyle related. Only our use of it can

[u/minivergur → u/niknniknnikn]

Why do you advocate for a system that in your words would lead to a lot more people dying?

[u/niknniknnikn → u/minivergur]

Given that you seem to be utilitarian, i would say that, generally, under this, the overall suffering will be much less, especially in the long run.

But in truth I'm not a utilitarian, nor do i think that the quantity of life given by our current society equates in any maningful way to its quality, or, as it were, happiness(which is highly subjective and, generally speaking, would be equal under anything but killpeopleism i guess).

Im not gonna go in depth on virtue ethics, but if you are a well read leftist, consider the fact that under the system i prescribe, alienation - in both original "labour-commodity" sense and the freudo-marxist experience in the world sense would be absolutely zero, everyone would be absolutely in tune with both themselves and the society, both via nature(see 99.9% argument) and nurture(a lot of room within the customs of a given family/commonwealth to insert your personal values)

[u/minivergur → u/niknniknnikn]

👍

[u/luminatimids → u/niknniknnikn]

Why would you assume that everyone would be “absolutely in tune with themselves”(im also curious to understand what you mean by that) in this new system?

[u/niknniknnikn → u/luminatimids]

Consider how you life would be if all the culture you consumed was made not by old greedy bastards tryna sell you some chep shit, but by peope directly interested in your happiness and success, who actually knew how it is to be you and whose advice would be sound.

Consider how amazing a resource is, for example, an elderly person in a period where nothing changes. Their life was just like yourth, their welth of experience - highly applicable to every problem you might encounter.

Consider how little people would suffer from mental illnesses: You are not only not expected to do abstracted life trials at young age tthat bring you unsurety and dred by your 20ies because the world moved on and doesn'lt need your specialty annymore(mountains of such and similar problems), you would also not be forced to grow up with 2 of your genetic parents, who might be fucking shitty awful people - here wou can choose a mother and a father figures from a plethora of loving and caring adults, all living closely.

A lion's share of the miseries of the current man are caused by his maladaption to the reality he fabricated for himself. Screens give us bad postures, curved pinkeys and tunnel vission - why do yu think the brain is any more resiliant to this.

And again, just to reiterate, no technological downgrade whatsoever is necessary to achieve this, just a hault of progress(that's gonna happen by itself anyways i recon) -

[u/luminatimids → u/niknniknnikn]

Sorry but how ar you expecting those things to happen just because we’re living in this new system?

Like would people around me be making the content I consume, instead of someone on the other coast of the US.

And how would a person’s world not change from when they’re born to when they’re old if the world constantly does that and if we’re assuming that we could keep innovating our technology?

I guess my point is that the things you’re pointing out would happen are lacking some kind of logical continuity. Like why would you expect those things to be as such in this new system?

[u/niknniknnikn → u/luminatimids]

It's an old system, as i said, a system people lived under for 99.99% of their existance as a species. We are deeply adapted to it, and neigh all our current misfortunes are caused by its subversion - and the more we subvert, the harsher our existance becomes. Untill it collapses. Either voluntarily and with low costs or unvolutarily with apocalyptic calamity, it will restitute.

[u/whatisthisgunifound → u/niknniknnikn]

Why do you want a system that, by your own admission, would lead to a lot more people dying? Including yourself?

[u/Own_Stay_351 → u/niknniknnikn]

“Didn’t work out” looool ok

[u/niknniknnikn → u/Own_Stay_351]

Got substantial critique?

[u/PM-ME-UR-uwu → u/minivergur]

Guy just wants to get isekaid

[u/ignoreme010101 → u/minivergur]

On a related note are you lonely or socially fulfilled - do you feel isolated from - or integrated in society?

lol I mean the fact that they could make a post like the one they just wrote says a lot about them ;P

[u/niknniknnikn → u/ignoreme010101]

No billionaire today is as socially fulfilled and integrated into society as a farmer in early antiquity was. By the time we age, all of our learning and knowledge is inadequate. Our elders are senile fools whose life is nothing like ours, our culture and media are more and more disconected from reality and our nature, yet they form our artificial reality to a larger and larger degree. Everything is a commodity, and every commodity is fully disconnected from both its producer and its consumer. The funniest thing is that nothing about this is in any way intended. Its all a catastrophic systemic folly, and to rectify it means to take a step back and rethink everything.

I say "rectify" as if im advocating for something, but in actuality, it is my utmost conviction that if the current system will continue as it is, it will by itself lead to a catastrophic failure akin to bronze age collapse, after which, with a lot of people unfortunately dying, the society will eventually normallize, before eventually developing anew, hopefully more adjusted.

[u/Own_Stay_351 → u/niknniknnikn]

Anything but organize ;)

[u/niknniknnikn → u/Own_Stay_351]

Organize into a clan with your extended family, support and care for each other, build trust with fellow organized families, and attempt to get political and societal power as a unit together. When your clan will inevitably rise to be considered a rich and/or powerful group of people, continue sharing property within it and exend your growing riches horizontally, building socilalite connections everywhere you can. This way, you would achieve success under any system and in any time period.

If you want to pursue labour-based organization in the mean time, then by every means do so, those are really effective at disestablishing the current individual property-based systems and are accelerating the collapse of capitalism. Which is great. Please do.

[u/luminatimids → u/niknniknnikn]

What if you don’t have a large extended family or just not a family period? Could you join someone else’s family?

[u/niknniknnikn → u/luminatimids]

Yeah! Absolutely! You can be a partner to someone, or a close friend of the family. The important part is that everuone trust everyone absolutely and allways helps in need.

[u/ignoreme010101 → u/niknniknnikn]

the amount of tenuous presumptions here masquerading as concrete facts is almost impressive...

[u/niknniknnikn → u/ignoreme010101]

almost as if it's a reddit comment and not a dissertation huh

[u/ignoreme010101 → u/niknniknnikn]

I know where we are ;) What do you think of Yarvin's ideas?

[u/niknniknnikn → u/ignoreme010101]

Drivel. I really dont like the cyber-gnostic larp bullshit (CCRI and everything that came of it). Everything one could agree with in moldbug was said before and better. He just collected it and added an "i was relentlessly bullied in school" flourish to it.

[u/PandaBlep → u/minivergur]

The same fascists that claim MAGA is freedom. They don't understand what words mean or systems of government.

And they have no idea that they would also be oppressed in this system they advocate for.

[u/luckac69 → u/PandaBlep]

MAGA is democratic nonsense

[u/PandaBlep → u/luckac69]

MAGA are fascists. That's literally the platform they run on.

[u/MemeBuyingFiend → u/PandaBlep]

Fascism has nothing to do with Monarchy. Fascism is a reactionary political movement that grew out of the Industrial Revolution, just like Communism and Socialism.

These are all experimental systems that do not maintain stability and measure their lifespans in decades.

[u/PandaBlep → u/MemeBuyingFiend]

As opposed to...? The corrupt system that leads to fudal wars and mass poverty?

[u/MemeBuyingFiend → u/PandaBlep]

I don't support feudalism. There are 12 sovereign monarchies in Europe at this very moment. Monarchy is a very stable system and has an excellent historical track record - especially when compared with Republicanism, Democracy, Junta, Fascism, Socialism, Communism, etc.

Given that it is the historical norm, you could even say that Monarchy is the de facto human system.

[u/PandaBlep → u/MemeBuyingFiend]

K, bye bye. You won't address my point and instead drag the goalposts.

[u/MemeBuyingFiend → u/PandaBlep]

I did no such thing. You believe that all monarchies turn into feudal hellholes, which is historically utterly nonsense. You are the one being disingenuous here.

[u/PandaBlep → u/MemeBuyingFiend]

How is the monarch chosen?

How do you prevent fudal wars from breaking out? (Hint, it's not fudalism, it's fudal wars, fucking read.)

How do you guarantee equality among the governed?

Are we going to ignore the historical issues with monarchy? The slavery, the colonization, destruction of culture? How about the wars of succession? Or when the king is a different flavor of Christian?

Monarchy is a worse form of oligarchy, and you are not being honest with yourself.

Address all my points with equal thought, don't just latch onto one. You may write out a text wall, I will read it all.

[u/luminatimids → u/MemeBuyingFiend]

But those countries primarily have only symbolic monarchs? The core of their system is representative democracy

[u/MemeBuyingFiend → u/luminatimids]

I don't think all blended monarchies are inherently negative. Democracy can be a very useful thing if it's properly balanced by a monarch. The exact ratio is obviously open for debate. I err on the side of absolutism, but there are well-known drawbacks to those systems. Having a constitution and a body politic is not inherently negative so long as the monarch can still limit the institutional short-sightedness and corruption of the bourgeois class and mercantile elite.

It's also important to note that many of these "ceremonial" monarchs have more power than you'd think.

[u/Own_Stay_351 → u/MemeBuyingFiend]

And ppl posting for monarchy here are literally reactionaries who arose out of this system. So?

[u/Square_Detective_658 → u/PandaBlep]

I don't know maybe that's what they want? They don't seem to be happy. I mean I'm not either, but they seem to have totally given into despair.

[u/Alistairdad]

Guess I’m a semi constitutional/anarchomonarchist

[u/Extension_Way3724 → u/Alistairdad]

How does a monarch enforce law without a monopoly on violence in a given area

[u/Alistairdad → u/Extension_Way3724]

I guess law ought to be enforced from the bottom up, not the top down.

A professional police force (as we know it today) was largely an invention of the Industrial Revolution

[u/Extension_Way3724 → u/Alistairdad]

So the monarch isn't enforcing the law. So why have them?

[u/Alistairdad → u/Extension_Way3724]

Good question! Kings are not there for their expediency, but because they are in accord with the natural order of man, and the natural law.

[u/Extension_Way3724 → u/Alistairdad]

Lmao, okay bud

[u/Alistairdad → u/Extension_Way3724]

I was never a fan of Hobbs

[u/Extension_Way3724 → u/Alistairdad]

Good to know, dude

[u/citizen_x_]

These people are trying to convince you that monarchy is freedom and good for you. They want to rule over you and think you're fucking stupid enough to think they are doing you a favor

[u/MemeBuyingFiend → u/citizen_x_]

They want to rule over you and think you're fucking stupid enough to think they are doing you a favor

The primary mistake democratically minded people make when debating monarchists is that they believe the monarchist wants power. On the contrary, the Monarchist wants to cede power to his or her sovereign ruler. No fool believes he will be the sovereign ruler.

Democratic people believe that they have power (lol), which is ludicrous in our current oligarchical systems that masquerade as democracies. You don't actually have power. The real power in these "democracies" is held by shadowy business interests and monied elites of whom you have never met. You likely don't even know who your rulers are.

A Monarchist knows who rules him or her. You, on the contrary, can only guess. To be a Monarchist means giving up on attempting to hold power.

I.e. "we" don't want to rule you.

[u/citizen_x_ → u/MemeBuyingFiend]

Yeah it's the Republican party along with christian nationalist organizations and corporations like Elon. Pretty obvious.

But a democracy is only as good as the people who vote in it. We have fools running around thinking monarchy is better than the most successful political model in he history of human existence: liberal republics

[u/MemeBuyingFiend → u/citizen_x_]

Yeah it's the Republican party along with christian nationalist organizations and corporations like Elon. Pretty obvious.

No. You are ruled by the top 1% of the top 1% of this society. Just 800 of them control 6.72 trillion dollars. They have all the cards, they pull all the strings, and they are completely unaccountable to you or anyone. They run the courts, they run your "politicians". Trump and Musk are only two of them. The two you can see.

the most successful political model in he history of human existence: liberal republics

The Japanese Monarchy has existed since 660 BC. Most monarchies last for centuries, even millenia. They are exceedingly successful.

The United States is the oldest Liberal Republic on Earth, with its constitution being founded in 1788.

Saying most successful is a huge stretch. Liberal Republics turn into unnaccountable oligarchies. Plato literally wrote about this thousands of years ago in "The Republic". He also wrote that monarchies inevitably rise from the ashes of devastated republics. They always collapse because they simply are not viable over the longterm. They always end up in the hands of the rich.

[u/[deleted] → u/MemeBuyingFiend]

That's very interesting. I thought all monarchists were a bunch of cringe idiots, but you have some good points.

[u/KingHunter150 → u/citizen_x_]

As far as the actually serious "anarcho-feudalists" are on this sub, it appears to be a strange way to repackage a social darwinistic AnCap to...idiots? They think changing the definition of a bunch of words and romanticizing a made-up feudal past will win over people who will unknowingly become their serfs.

[u/theking4mayor]

If it's not an absolute monarchy, why even bother?

[u/krulp]

Traditional monarchy is some next level copium.

Any monarchy that fit that description was a constitutional monarchy.

[u/Capable_Rip_1424]

People who think Abarchy is a System snd not tge lack of one confuse me.

[u/TBP64]

All I see is brain damage 

[u/Warny55]

How to are you going to enforce laws without a violent monopoly...nonsense.

[u/Aware-Dragonfruit654]

Very Low quality bait

[u/Upstairs_You_2272]

Traditional Monarchist here =))

[u/PM-ME-UR-uwu]

Lol,I love how anarchomonarchy is so clearly only anarchy by technicality.

Like, congress is not literally the police station so technically we are currently in anarchy

[u/Extension_Way3724]

As an actual anarchist, I demand to know why reddit keeps suggesting this shit hole to me

[u/Gil-ScottMysticism]

It's funny how humans will argue over something as useless as semantics and labels when their house is on fire.

[u/AbsoluteSupes]

So this is also exempted from reality lol

[u/PandaBlep]

Alright, idiot. How does a monarchy separate itself from a state, how is that separation enforced, and how do you prevent corruption in the royal line.

The floor is yours, please, entertain us with this stupid dance.

[u/niknniknnikn → u/PandaBlep]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton