r/ontario • u/yukonwanderer • 1d ago
Discussion Alternative pivots for auto workers and other hurt industries
Wouldn't it be great if Doug Ford pulled an Eisenhower and did a "new deal" using auto workers - retraining them - then investing in the construction of high speed rail networks all over the province. Probably should be hoping Carney does this instead, as Dougie would never.
I think now is the time to really get creative and bold and get other industries and skills going in Canada. Imagine if we actually had amazing transit, more convenient than being stuck in traffic. We literally have no one to sell our cars to if not the US. No one wants the gigantic bullshit we make and use here.
Or... They become home builders, funded by both levels of government, as used to be done up until the 1980's. Of course everyone is gonna come say impossible and least a millions reasons why not. So what's your solution?
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u/potbakingpapa 1d ago
The federal government retrained the coal miners in Sidney NS and they are the ones that were/are doing the restoation of Fort Louisburg and now its a major tourist attraction.
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u/MooseKnuckleds 1d ago edited 12h ago
Are autoworkers going to want to work construction/heavy civil for very likely less money, more hours (road construction is 55 hours before overtime), in all sorts of weather conditions?
I know it's better than not having a job. But I know two Unifor GM plant workers who don't realize what they have, and I can only imagine their culture shock going to work on a construction crew
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u/GitchyGitchy123 1d ago
Not to nitpick but it’s after 55 hours per week you get OT, with the possibility of carrying forward unused hours to the following week, with a maximum of 22 hours. I worked road construction and it was a nightmare for me in almost every possible way besides money. Only way to keep guys there is with exorbitant amounts of money.
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u/MooseKnuckleds 1d ago
Oh you're right, 55hrs, even worse
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u/GitchyGitchy123 1d ago
I worked the worst sub-category of road construction, I was a HSE Representative & Traffic Control Coordinator for Seasonal Mobile Surface Treatment, I cried when my work season finished every year. It’s a job, yes, and pays very well ($1,200 per week, net pay) but it clips your mental health severely. I always tell guys to consider it very carefully.
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u/MooseKnuckleds 1d ago
I'm pretty sure autoworkers net more than $1200 weekly. I really think they would be in for an hourly pay cut
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u/GitchyGitchy123 1d ago
I got no idea how much autoworkers make, I know I made $22 per hour + $69.99 per diem per day (5 days a week tax free, so $350.). If GM offered me a position in their plant I’d quit the same day lol
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u/Liquid_Weasel 13h ago
I mean no, ideally we wouldn't. We are very lucky to do what we do (and for the pay especially) - but many of us have lifestyles (namely expensive mortgages) that require an above average income. Personally, I will do whatever I have to do for my wife and kids and whatever government retraining I could get would be a gift in my opinion.
Ideally we will continue doing what we do already, but who can say for sure anymore
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u/MooseKnuckleds 12h ago edited 12h ago
I hope you guys make it through relatively unscathed, but my point was how does an auto worker go from $45-50/hr with good benefits and pension to $15-25/hr doing harder labour in adverse conditions, which is what OP is suggesting. It's not a viable alternative.
Someone else suggested in the replies below that instead of working long hours in all weather conditions that auto workers transition to prefab home construction, however, this type of prefab framing assembler makes minimum wage.
So my takeaway isn't that you wouldn't do what you need to, it's that the suggested career pivots are complete lifestyle and financial upheavals and OPs suggestion is basically an empty thought because of it.
A skilled trade would be a better avenue, but it's still a multi year process until you're earning a similar income
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u/Liquid_Weasel 12h ago
Yes, it would be a huge, huge let down to leave that kind of money on the table. It's not like jobs that pay almost 50 an hour plus OT grow on trees right? Not to play a little violin for myself or anything, but lost jobs in this sector are not easily replaced.
Trades would be the most viable option, but they take years to learn and there would be a flooding of the zone with thousands upon thousands of applicants for presumably not as many positions.
There's no easy answer unfortunately.
Fuck Trump
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u/troypoloi 23h ago
No but they may be fine working in a factory setting that produces prefab homes
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u/MooseKnuckleds 23h ago
Lol I bet people working in prefab framing manufacturing plants on the shop floor make little more than minimum wage
Edit: yup "In Ontario, a truss assembler’s average hourly pay is around $15.18, translating to an annual salary of approximately $31,578"
So about 1/3 that of a Unifor worker at Stellantis or GM. Again, it would be a grounding culture shock for union auto plant workers
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u/yukonwanderer 1d ago
Road construction? I was thinking train construction
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u/MooseKnuckleds 1d ago
It's similar field of construction and same working conditions. A lot of the time when rail lines are built other infrastructure is needed, modified or improved, this includes roads and underground services and utilities.
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u/rdkil 1d ago
I like the idea of a crown corp automaker. In theory you could use existing factories and infrastructure networks to ship parts back and forth, you could start with making vehicles targeted to specific needs like Canada Post delivery vans, policy chase cars, government limos, public works trucks,etc. then expand into consumer markets.
In practice however? Part of the reason why government makes fleet orders is because parts are interchangeable and have decades of proven reliability, technician info etc. Your public works department drive Chevy Silverado partly because it's a cheapest box, and partly because they can get parts from literally any other town or city or backyard.
Any new automaker that would be set up to replace fired auto workers would have to price their products cheaper than American brands. Would need to retool for new designs, would need to retrain for new production flows. It would need to start up and down on a dime depending on the order size and market temperature. Basically it would need to operate like a shitty start up company. It would be the exact opposite of what it's replacing. Can it be done? Yes. Would it hurt like hell for those involved? Yes. Would it lead to everyone getting a replacement job at the same pay/hours/seniority/etc? Hell no.
There is no way to get around it, a shut down of the big three on Ontario will suck ass for everyone in Ontario no matter how far away you are from a plant.
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u/EmptySeaDad 23h ago
Military vehicles and equipment might be another opportunity as the US continues to alienate their customer base.
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u/No-Manufacturer-22 9h ago
A huge investment in infrastructure is needed. Its been starved for decades due to Neo-liberal pseudo-austerity budgets. Housing, healthcare, roads and transit improvements would boost employment and create better conditions for investment by business. But the payoff would be farther down in time time than any government would last in power, so its never done.
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u/dgj212 23h ago
It's better than nothing, but I think they are more likely to go into a prefab market or something. Abd a few months ago when I asked what the companies could pivt to on this sub, the answers I got are that we keep making cars but fir a different market and that these factories could produce tanks.
Honestly I've been thinking what kind of stuff we can have fabricated in a factory to rapidly improve Canadian lives instead of just houses I want that to don't get me wrong.
Also the new deal had a wide breadth of stuff in there such as also paying artists to do stuff, but I think the interest in ai I'll probably undercut that.
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u/suesueheck 13h ago
Unless I'm making close to what I currently make, I'd just take EI as long as I can (695/week) and find a cash job if needed.
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u/Big_Sherbet7582 1d ago
Amazing transit that no one will adopt lol tax payers retraining auto workers gtfoh- Ontario already is the highest tax bracket province no thanks
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u/yukonwanderer 1d ago
Ok so then it'll be paying for unemployment and watching your property tax skyrocket
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u/Sure-Sympathy5014 1d ago
Canada buys 10% of cars made in North America.
We make 11%.
Retool and make more of our own cars. Import from Mexico and china to gap fill.
Only difference is the US is cut out.....