r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 I voted • 8d ago

Soft Paywall The Biggest Scandal of the Second Trump Term Isn’t “Signalgate” | The national-security chat debacle certainly merits attention. But the Trump administration is now blatantly disappearing students and others who are in the country legally.

https://newrepublic.com/article/193291/trump-disappearing-students-rumeysa-ozturk-rubio-biggest-scandal
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u/HarmoniousJ America 8d ago

Trump wants you to be hopeless so you won't fight him or his other fellow demons.

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u/WFHRoyalty 8d ago

How do we fight? I’m too scared to even have a yard sign out in Tennessee that’s say “I voted for the woman”

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u/Leopold__Stotch 8d ago

If everyone who voted against Trump had a conversation with a different Trump voter, we would run out of Trump voters first.

With the Trump voters in my life, I’m trying to go for the policies. They love Him with their whole hearts. When asked they say things about “small government” and quote Reagan. They are not empathetic. They say they love god, family, and country.

Biden did not hurt them at all, but his ideas hurt their memories of being young inexperienced business owners with young kids and having to pay taxes during a period of inflation. They might support one or two specific things he said but other than that i think it’s a cultural vote. They did not evaluate policies to pick what’s best for them and their families.

Trump will not materially help them either, since they’re not billionaires or high earners. Trump will hurt their family, as we navigate health care and education issues, and our friends and neighbors get kidnapped by federal agents.

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u/NinjaLanternShark 8d ago

When asked they say things about “small government” and quote Reagan.

If they like Reagan show them this clip where he literally argues for opening the border with Mexico.

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u/Leopold__Stotch 8d ago

Or his signature immigration act of 1986 which included amnesty for millions of immigrants!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986?wprov=sfti1#

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u/lctrc 8d ago

Reagan would be shunned as a RINO today.

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u/poop-dolla 8d ago

How many Trump voters have you converted to vote against him just by talking?

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u/SnooPickles4465 8d ago

Not him but I've tried to convince my friends dump is bad for everyone they won't listen to reason they always say "Oh you're just spouting liberal propaganda" as if they don't do what Fox tells them to say or it's the "deep state" controlling the world and dump is so smart he's playing 5d chess.

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u/AML86 8d ago

My mother has been voting red for a while for some dumb reason (husbands). Between her kids and clients that won't shut up about how Cheeto is ruining their lives, she has flipped to agreement. Honestly don't think she knew what she was even voting for, so not exactly the toughest case. Still, I'd guess that half or more of that 47% or w/e of votes are noncommital and just used to picking the team colors.

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u/Leopold__Stotch 8d ago

Oh none of course! But the other option is total silence on the topic and that won’t convince anyone of anything either. They voted for this and that would rather not talk about the yucky stuff but I won’t give them that option, especially since it is starting to directly impact me and my family 🤷‍♂️

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u/Panda_Drum0656 8d ago

If everyone who voted against Trump had a conversation with a different Trump voter, we would run out of Trump voters first.

Thats just straight up false. I tried having a conversation with my former friend since trump got elected. He claims he doesnt like talking about politics yet he votes. He would just ignore me and text me the next day like i didnt say anything. Or say he has to read more about it and then never bring it up.

These people cannot be reasoned with and will not admit trump is doing terrible things. They do not care that people are being wrongfully kidnapped. They do not care if protection for children is gone. They do not care about the price of groceries. The do not care if their lives get ruined.

This is only their team winning the superbowl to them.

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u/Leopold__Stotch 8d ago

My point was that more people voted for someone other than Trump. Matching non-Trump voters with Trump voters and you will not have enough Trump voters to go around.

I know what you mean though. They are dug in deep. They might care as the pain comes close and eventually into their own homes. For better and worse we will have to find out.

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u/crosseyedmule 8d ago

They did not evaluate policies to pick what’s best for them and their families.

They vote for their team. It feels good.

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u/sokratesz 8d ago

If everyone who voted against Trump had a conversation with a different Trump voter, we would run out of Trump voters first.

I'm not in the US, but people keep telling me this about those who voted for extremists in the Netherlands.

The problem is twofold: one, you cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into. Many of these people are voting purely on sentiment, on gut feeling. They're stupid to the point of absurdity which makes them vulnerable to the succesful strong man image that politicians like Trump, Orban, and Wilders project. No reasonable argument is going to sway them. Two: I absolutely cannot be arsed to speak with people like this, whose world view and values differ so much from my own. It's not my responsibility to try and sway these morons from voting for a moron, and I want nothing to do with them.

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u/Leopold__Stotch 8d ago

I hear you and I think I understand you. It can be very painful to talk to these people. In my case it’s family and they insulate themselves from the pain they cause with their votes, but the pain is in their house now. Or they can watch from a distance as the next generation grow up in this world.

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u/PaulSandwich Florida 8d ago

I've found it effective (or at least satisfying) to let them talk about themselves into a corner of 'soft' bigotry and whatever spite-driven cruelty is on their mind, and then ask how they reconcile that with the teachings of Christ. And gently hold them to that with earnest compassion.

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u/Leopold__Stotch 8d ago

People love to talk about themselves. I have a pretty high tolerance for it. Listening to people talk, some are surprisingly quick to tell some really troubling stuff to a total stranger 😂

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u/Japjer New York 8d ago

I can't really say how you can fight back without my account being banned.

The simple methods? Stop being nice and stop excusing shitty behavior. Ten years ago, if someone went off on an ignorant tirade about something stupid I would just shake my head and carry on. But now I outright call them out on their bullshit.

And I'm saying that as a New Yorker who rides the subway on the regular. I'm so done with this bullshit.

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u/TheVermontsterr 8d ago

I’m in Tennessee too, we should start teaming up

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u/GoBravely 8d ago

Watch this and all of "Some more news "

https://youtu.be/Ed-rNEkuhBY?si=OpqILZedSrWvVnZ5

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u/mst2k17 8d ago

Look up your local democratic club. Attend and start talking to people there. If you don't have one, start talking with the people in your life who understand that this is bad, and what can we do. Connect. Form a group. Then start finding other people who feel the same way. This is where you start.

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u/elihu 8d ago

There aren't a lot of great options, but I'd suggest reading On Tyranny -- twenty lessons from the twentieth century by Timothy Snyder for at least some ideas. It's a short read.

You can participate in protests if they're happening around you, if you feel safe doing it. You can talk to your friends.

I've found that making protest signs, even though it's probably pretty ineffective, at least allows me to feel like I'm doing something constructive.

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u/Straight_Solid_5258 7d ago

I drive around with a sign in my car that says fuck trump every day,I won't be stopping either,it's time to mobilize in large numbers protest what is going on.the great lakes are full of maga fascists too

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u/cwils23 8d ago

Please enlighten us how we fight this. Especially when they have the backing of the greatest military force in history on their side

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u/SameResolution4737 8d ago

Idk - ask the Taliban how you fight the greatest military force in history?

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u/Caedus New York 8d ago

Be located thousands of miles away without having your and your family's identities and locations easily accessible by the government?

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u/Japjer New York 8d ago

So fucking roll over and give up, then. Seriously.

You can join protests, you can organize protests, you can put up fliers and signs, you can throw cans of creamed corn. There are a million things you can do, but being a defeatist and moping on Reddit isn't helping a damn soul.

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u/leahyrain 8d ago

Having rational rebuttals to why your suggestions aren't helpful isn't the same thing as being defeatist.

They are literally kidnapping people and putting them in work camps... I get what you're saying, And at its core I agree with it, but what you're doing is also some fairy tale bullshit.

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u/Caedus New York 8d ago

How am I being defeatist? I'm pointing out why you can't suddenly turn into an insurgency.

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u/GreyGreenBrownOakova 8d ago

I don't think "waiting until they go home" will work in this instance.

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u/Memitim 8d ago

Become fascist enough that Donald Trump will invite us to Camp David to negotiate the handoff of the country to us?

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u/Almostlongenough2 Florida 8d ago

Right now, communication. Talk to as many people as you can, help them realize just how dire things are. The power the general public has is that the powers that be need us a lot more than we need them, violence is not required, simply inaction is enough to cause society to fail. The hard part is convincing the right people to not do what they are ordered to, which is why the overall public perception of the direction the country is going is important.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/PM_good_beer 8d ago

So you expect people to just start shooting? This would require mass organization to form a revolution. It's not so simple.

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u/Pussy4LunchDick4Dins 8d ago

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u/Internal_Prompt_ 8d ago

Yeah the easy solution was to not elect him. Before that the easy solution was for Joe Biden to do his fucking job and enforce the law against this pedo. Before that the easy solution was to not elect him the first time.

Now there don’t seem to be any more easy solutions.

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u/elihu 8d ago

Public opinion still matters when it comes to influencing the decisions of the government officials and members of the police forces and military who may be asked to do things that violate existing laws, if not the constitution.

Trump can't do anything by himself, he needs people to carry out his orders. If every time he asked someone to do something illegal, they just told him "no", he wouldn't be able to dismantle modern civilization as quickly as he's doing.

Even though midterms and the next presidential election cycle are a long ways off, there's still value in protesting right now -- not to sway voters but to stand up for constitutional norms.

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u/Panda_Drum0656 8d ago

How are we supposed to fight? Im guessing pretty soon there will be civil unrest and then another kyle rittenhouse situation and then trump declares it legal to kill non magas and label us terrorists just for having different views.

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u/MMigali 8d ago

There and over a million veterans who know how to fight and have been trained, not only with weapons but have been trained to wake bombs from every day kitchens but my favorite is how to make real Napalm

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u/Panda_Drum0656 8d ago

Arent most veterans are pro trump lol every one I know are trumpers

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u/NJcovidvaccinetips 8d ago

“ They want you to be a ghost

When they rob you of your hope

But you've got power when they're not expecting anything”