r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 I voted • 8d ago

Soft Paywall The Biggest Scandal of the Second Trump Term Isn’t “Signalgate” | The national-security chat debacle certainly merits attention. But the Trump administration is now blatantly disappearing students and others who are in the country legally.

https://newrepublic.com/article/193291/trump-disappearing-students-rumeysa-ozturk-rubio-biggest-scandal
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445

u/Dorkseid1687 8d ago

The is fascism. WAKE UP

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u/thewaffleiscoming 8d ago

Americans won't until there are dead bodies in the street. Even then, MAGA will probably become suicide bombers before they ever wake up.

Like, from the outside looking in, the deluge of fascist criminal actions keep happening every f-ing day and 99% of Americans are carrying on like it's nothing. F--ks like Schumer, the top Democrat, still prioritizes his donors and his book tour. It's all insane.

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u/Aware_Tree1 8d ago

I’m an American. I’m extremely worried about this. But it’s all I can do to keep myself housed and fed. If I skip work to protest, I lose my home, I won’t have money to eat, etc. A lot of Americans are in this situation, most likely by design. Americans are struggling not to drown, they can’t worry about the sharks pulling people down. It’s an incredibly depressing state of affairs

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u/Significant_You9481 8d ago

When you read the experiences of the people in the 3.Reich - well, most people always just carried on with their life's, because you don't know what to do else. You have your day to day life, your family, your jobs etc. I mean, we go on although there is a massive climate crisis coming with the option to destroy our civilization. 

In the early 30ties many Jews who didnt have real options to migrate kept going on. Sending the kids to school, ok now a jewish-only school, kept working + ok, now in a unskilled job and making ends meet somehow. Same in 1945 - if people were not in the army they would show up to their workplace, read newspapers and gossip around. Erich Kästner, a German author, describes in Notabene 45  an long article he read randomly about the reorganisation of the distribution of professional sewing needles in the Reich - written in December 1944... 

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u/autopoiesies 8d ago

100% this, I'm not from the US but if there was ever a time to be "woke" is right now motherfuckers they'll eventually come after YOU

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u/UpperApe 8d ago

I can not believe the excuses Americans come up with to NOT flood the streets and every city legislature across the country.

Like what the fuck are they all waiting for? If this isn't it, what is?

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u/picohenries Michigan 8d ago

I think you’re heavily overestimating the number of Americans who strongly oppose this administration. 30% supported him, 30% opposed him, and 40% don’t give a shit about anything. That final group is also generally anti-protest.

People feel alone, so the decision becomes “do I risk losing my career and healthcare to engage in protest that a majority of Americans will oppose?” I’m not defending it, but it’s obvious why the minority are reluctant to protest, particularly when those protests don’t feel impactful.

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u/ikatako38 8d ago edited 8d ago

Also. This is purely anecdotal but even though 30% oppose him, probably at least 20% of that still think things are “not that bad.” My boyfriend keeps trying to tell me how life feels exactly the same and nothing’s actually changed, and he gets mad at me any time I try to bring up politics. He not only voted for Kamala Harris but even went to vote in person after not receiving the mail-in ballot he had applied for. Even my friend who worked on the campaign blames Kamala’s campaign for her loss and is just kind of resigned to everything. This is the opinion of the vast majority of Dem voters. “It’s not actually that bad.” I’m actually the only person I know who even seems to be taking any of this seriously.

So we have maybe 10% of the population who thinks something even needs to be done about this. 20% neutral, and 70% actively opposing protest. And then you have to divide that 10% into people who think protests aren’t the answer, people who are scared they they themselves will get disappeared, people who are afraid of being fired, people who don’t have transportation, hell people who aren’t even in the country right now like me.

I’m not at all surprised it’s such a minuscule amount after all that.

Even if you can get that 10% all out protesting at the same time, they’ll be facing at least 30% of the population counterprotesting, and 70% on the side of the counterprotesters. And then you get martial law, and we all disappear.

And every now and then I get this thought in my head that’s just like… if we really are only 10% of the population or less… what if I am actually wrong. Like what if I’m actually just genuinely insane. It would make more sense than 90% of the country just completely ignoring or cheering on fascist takeover right?

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u/UpperApe 8d ago

No, the decision becomes "do I keep my head down while the Nazis disappear people?".

A decision another country famously had to wrestle with, if you recall.

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u/picohenries Michigan 8d ago

Yes, but I already agree with you. The issue is a vast majority of Americans would think you’re being hysterical and overreacting with that comment. If you were to engage in any form of protest beyond holding signs at a street corner, the average American would oppose you. So then what? Genuinely asking.

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u/UpperApe 8d ago

So then what?

Mass protests. In every city legislature across the country. Everywhere. Consistently. Obviously.

If you don't understand what that'll do, you don't understand democracy, governments, or history.

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u/SirenSongShipwreck 8d ago

You're clearly not even trying to understand what the other person is saying here and are far more concerned with shouting from your soap box for the two seconds of dopamine before posting the comment. They're asking you to put yourself in the shoes of others on an individual basis and you continue to crow back with actions you could never take. "You" can not initiate a mass protest, across the country, everywhere, consistently. It sure feels good to say but completely ignores what you were actually asked, which didn't even mention other prohibitive conditions like so many Americans living paycheck to paycheck or worse, meaning getting fired or missing work for striking or protesting will ruin them - which I know is no excuse to you, clearly. Because if it were you, you'd do it anyway and your noble sacrifice would somehow be repaid, those people are just apathetic and stupid, right? You can't speak for a giant disparate group of people, this isn't a videogame. Markus-bot isn't going to start tapping shoulders and freeing minds to join the cause. It's reality and these people are going to have to lose everything before anything like what you've described happens. And that's coming from someone who does agree there should be mass protests and a general strike, or more.

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u/picohenries Michigan 8d ago

Thank you, I started to lose my mind over here thinking I had forgotten how to use words or something.

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u/UpperApe 8d ago

Oh I see. You weren't actually asking. You were just looking for these kinds of bullshit excuses.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/ThinkyRetroLad America 8d ago

No, you're just not actually paying attention. I could go outside and leave my library job right now and begin protesting. What does that accomplish? Do you think people are just going to surround me and join in? No, I'm going to lose my job and possibly get arrested. People have been going to protests all over the country. We've made connections and seen those protests firsthand. Are you suggesting we storm the Capitol? Again, such a thing requires organization. I can't just drive over and start a protest. I will be alone; people aren't just going to see me and join in. So what do you actually expect the average person to do without that organization. Disorganized as a group, we are worthless, picked off one by one. We're trying to organize. To organize effectively you need some sort of leadership.

I want us all to go protest right the fuck now. It's not going to happen until the majority of people have no recourse, because most people aren't paying as much attention as I am, or the other posters in this thread.

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u/shmoozygoozy 8d ago

If you believe mass protests and popular movements spontaneously form under circumstances like this just because they're our only response, you don't understand democracy, governments, or history. As a matter of fact, just people doesn't make much of a demonstration. Protests are a demonstration of public will and strength and essentially operate as a threat against those in power. "don't be a fascist or else" doesn't have much teeth when only a tiny percent of people that are protesting are willing to do much more than passively walk on a sidewalk, and leftist political power is weaker than ever, meanwhile our center-right party just keeps ceding ground to the militant far right and making the left even weaker.

It takes organization. General strikes, student protests, the civil rights moment, tenant unions, whatever. Stuff can't really be forced to happen spontaneously, and a spontaneous event over a shared struggle (eg class struggle during Occupy) that doesn't produce any real, self-managing and aggressive organization with a program of direct action and community sputters out and fails to really achieve much, because its just words.

The extremely wealthy and powerful have been waging a war for decades straight on common people and our ability to organize ourselves to collectively bargain or hold the state and corporations accountable. Right now, we are on our way to collapse, and it is worthwhile to build up political power for the left and prepare for the coming collapse by focusing on creating structures to soften the impact on your local community and strengthen your local community for what will hopefully be a breaking point for them.

That said, as an American I'm not so optimistic Americans actually have a breaking point and without significant organizing it wouldn't be enough to get us out of this mess very cleanly.

It's so annoying how people think that they can just snap their fingers and make a mass movement occur.

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u/picohenries Michigan 8d ago edited 8d ago

But that’s my point though - who’s attending the mass protests? It is a minority of Americans who oppose Trump enough to protest. Among that minority of Americans, many of them are wage slaves and would face immediate danger to their health and safety if they lose their job. My wife is a teacher, if she protests in any capacity she will lose her career and healthcare - what if she were a single mother with kids?

My point is, a mass protest isn’t going to happen unless that mass exists. It doesn’t right now. I think we would agree that building towards that mass is a necessary goal.

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u/iDownvoteToxicLeague 8d ago

I guess Americans don’t love freedom after all

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u/Grand_Size_4932 8d ago

Ah, see you’re confusing freedom with Freedom™ . Americans have had the definition of freedom completely twisted in front of them to get to this point. Americans simply have no idea what freedom actually means.

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u/iamdestroyerofworlds 8d ago

"It's just fiefdom with a modern spelling, right?"

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u/stasi_a 8d ago

Freedom only in the form of 2A

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u/littlebossman 8d ago

When Canada started a boycott of US goods, it just happened. Flight numbers to the US down by 70%. Land traffic down by 40%. US fruit and veg rotting on shelves. Entire supply chains being ripped up. That's within about 6 weeks.

When the US tried to have a one-day boycott of buying goods, some guy tried to get $100k on GoFundMe to organise it - and the whole thing fizzled to nothing.

The past two months have shown the world that US citizens are completely incapable of doing anything that might damage their own small corner of comfort, no matter what's going on outside their front door.

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u/Kind-Category-941 8d ago

This should offend and startle everyone in action

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u/assimilating 8d ago

The entire federal government is run by these assholes. We are awake. The fuck are we supposed to do? How many countries do you see where mass protests actually made a difference? This will lead to blood in the streets for there to be change. 

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u/PotentialCase5161 8d ago

This is how Nazis took over half the world. Everyone is too afraid to speak up for fear of retribution. And so more and more people disappear, and by the time they come for you, there will be no one left to speak up.

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u/PlasmaWhore 8d ago

Your comment isn't helpful. People are aware. What would you have us do?

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u/Dorkseid1687 8d ago

I don’t think everyone on here is aware that this is fascism

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u/PlasmaWhore 8d ago

Maybe explain why?

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u/Dorkseid1687 7d ago

You don’t know what the trump administration is doing that is fascist ?

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u/PlasmaWhore 7d ago

You said other people don't know. So explain it to them.

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u/Dorkseid1687 7d ago

Do you know what the trump administration is doing ?

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u/PlasmaWhore 7d ago

They're doing many things. Is there something specific?

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u/SanFranPanManStand 8d ago

meh - don't believe everything you read on Reddit.

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u/Dorkseid1687 8d ago

Then pay attention to what’s happening-right now.

Heard of the protesters being kidnapped off the streets?

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u/SanFranPanManStand 8d ago

She was on a guest visa and was supporting Hamas, a designated terrorist organization.

Not the same thing as "protesters being kidnapped"

These insane exaggerated posts just discredit this entire sub.

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u/Dorkseid1687 8d ago

No-she wasn’t. Nothing I said was insane. She protested the genocide in Gaza. Kop the fuck on to yourself

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u/SanFranPanManStand 8d ago

No. Google Tufts campus protest negotiations last year.

It's fucking ridiculous that her group - many of whom are on GUEST visas - thought they could come here and shut down school for Americans.

....and all in support of celebrating the genocide of Jews. What an amazing look.

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u/Dorkseid1687 8d ago

There is no genocide of Jews. There is a genocide of Palestinians.

Wake up

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u/SanFranPanManStand 8d ago

She's advocating for the first one. ...the exact thing attempted on Oct 7th - did you forget?

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u/Dorkseid1687 8d ago

No -she’s not. Stop making excuses for the fascist kidnapping of an innocent person who expressed her opinion

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u/SanFranPanManStand 8d ago

She is the Nazi - so I'm happy to see her deported.

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u/enderpanda 8d ago

How much they paying you, anyway?

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u/SanFranPanManStand 8d ago

Seeing terrorists deported brings me so much joy - I do this all for free.

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u/Dorkseid1687 8d ago

Then you’re a fascist too.

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u/SanFranPanManStand 8d ago

These fucks are calling for the elimination of Jews and celebrate the murder of families in their homes - because of where they were born.

They, and probably you too, are the most obvious Nazis around in this world.

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u/Dorkseid1687 8d ago

Go ahead and prove that the person kidnapped wants genocide against the Jews

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u/Personal-Sandwich-44 8d ago

Lets go ahead and say for a second that is actually grounds to get disappeared by the government without due process. Is there any proof she was actually doing that?

You can read her op-ed here. Everything on here is about Israel's actions, and how there is precedent already, i.e. how the university, and other universities, divested themselves from the South Africa back in its apartheid state.

You can be anti Israel committing genocide, be pro palstine, while NOT being pro hamas, which like you said, is a terrorist organization.