r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 I voted • 8d ago

Soft Paywall The Biggest Scandal of the Second Trump Term Isn’t “Signalgate” | The national-security chat debacle certainly merits attention. But the Trump administration is now blatantly disappearing students and others who are in the country legally.

https://newrepublic.com/article/193291/trump-disappearing-students-rumeysa-ozturk-rubio-biggest-scandal
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u/offinthepasture 8d ago

I mean, that's the scary part of our system. The judge can only say what they are doing is illegal, they have no power to stop it, the power of enforcement is in the hands of the executive branch...

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u/SmartWonderWoman California 8d ago

Congress can stop him. They won’t.

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u/rotciv0 Europe 8d ago

I hope McConnell's utter cowardice and evil for the second impeachment are never forgotten. That was our chance to stop this madness

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u/LawGroundbreaking221 8d ago

Dick Durbin and other prominent Democrats refused to put the screws to him during Biden's Administration. Merrick Garland refused to go after him with everything he had. People dragged their feet.

This wasn't just McConnell and other Republicans. Major fucking Democrats are responsible for allowing this to happen.

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u/rotciv0 Europe 8d ago

Sure, there was a whole lot of fuck ups everywhere for years, some even going back decades, but the second impeachment is by far the clearest cut "if this one thing went through it would be over". Remember, with e.g. Merrick, I agree with you, but keep in mind Trump is already a convicted felon, and was at the time of the election, and nobody cared. The impeachment though would have directly barred him from office.

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u/zernoc56 8d ago

The 14th should have already precluded him from a second term, but here we fucking are…

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u/Revolutionary_Mud159 7d ago

The 14th DOES preclude him. The Presidency is vacant right now, and the Constitution is dead. Whether the Republic can be resurrected remains to be seen.

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u/Asmor Massachusetts 8d ago

There's a whole lot of people that bear responsibility for this, but they're not all equal.

  • At the top, there's Trump, Musk, Putin, Netanyahu, and all the other tyrants in their little axis of evil. They all bear direct and full responsibility for everything that's going on, and if there's any justice in the world they'll be tried for crimes against humanity.
  • Then there's the Republican party which actively enable, encourage, and normalize this bullshit. Any Republican politician who can't provide solid evidence that they were working hard to try to stop this deserves to be stripped of their office and never allowed to run for office again.
  • Next there are those politicians who tactitly enable it through failing to resist it. This level is where most of the Democrats live. They deserve to be named, shamed, and voted out.
  • Finally, there are all the people who voted for Trump and other fascists. And honestly, they're victims as much as the rest of us. They deserve love and compassion, and we need to find a way to encourage them to return to sanity. This would have to be a matter of social pressure, though, not legal. Nobody should be punished by the government for their vote.

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u/LawGroundbreaking221 8d ago

Yes, but keep in mind that we all already knew going in that McConnell was on Trump's side.

We are being betrayed by democrats who aren't doing the job they say they will do and supporting the things they say they will support. Guys like Durbin & Schumer say they're on our side and then explicitly and openly aid Republicans.

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u/LazyDare7597 8d ago

We are being betrayed by democrats who aren't doing the job

Thank you! I'm so fucking sick of Democrats taking the highroad of "we must move on and heal as a country, bipartisanship, blablabla" as their excuse to sweep the rug and avoid messy political fights to get that accountability

And we're somehow surprised Republicans just come back bolder and ready to push on more norms and break more laws?

Bidens inauguration speech after the Jan 6 insurrection was absolutely infuriating. Basically no talk of accountability, big focus on moving forward and healing and all that bullshit.

But then when he has a foot out the door he can clearly see that Republicans don't give a fuck about any of those things, so he pardons his family and friends. The nation itself on the line? Oh yeah bipartisanship and healing.

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u/jonasnew 8d ago

So, basically you're blaming the Dems to why Trump won the election? If you are, do you realize that you're saying that they're the ones responsible for why we're dealing with fascism now?

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u/LazyDare7597 8d ago

Are you just upset about criticism of "your party" and shifting my argument into those absurd points that I never made?

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u/No-Helicopter-6026 8d ago

I'm starting to think these people just like beach houses and fancy dinners.

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u/LawGroundbreaking221 8d ago

They like being important. That's pretty much it. They personally have more in common with Marco Rubio than they do you or me. That's why they voted for him unanimously to confirm his appointment. Remember that.

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u/VirginiaMcCaskey 8d ago

Major fucking Democrats are responsible for allowing this to happen.

They were all cowards. Anyone can crack open a history book and learn what happens when you don't smother insurrection in the crib. It grows up and takes revenge.

Instead they prayed that decorum would uphold the rule of law in this country, instead of lawmakers and enforcement.

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u/LawGroundbreaking221 8d ago

They weren't cowards. They did it because to really root out Trumpism and all it entailed would have caused a lot of problems economically because a lot of Trump's base would have gone nuts. This was a money choice. They didn't want to upset the markets. They didn't want to have to deal with Trumper terrorists in America after they put the screws to him. The chose to try to keep it all small and just let Trump go away, but the problem is that Trump didn't go away.

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u/stasi_a 8d ago

Beer hall and all that

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u/RelaxPrime 8d ago

It all boils down to:

We simply cannot hold him accountable, less we risk being held accountable ourselves in the future.

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u/sicemdawgs1980 7d ago

Mitch McConnell is responsible. He and the GOP refused to convict and if they had done so, he could not have run again. After he was out of office, it was out of Durbin's hands. Up to DOJ.

Not a fan of Schumer or Durbin but really was out of their hands, once Trump left office.

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u/LawGroundbreaking221 7d ago

Durbin refused to subpoena anyone for the Judicial committee he is on. Biden appointed Merrick Garland and let him do fuck all and get away with it.

McConnell and Trump had help on our side and to deny that is to just cover your eyes and deny reality.

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u/SmartWonderWoman California 8d ago

Facts 💯

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u/LawGroundbreaking221 8d ago

Also Merrick Garland's cowardice - and he was appointed by who?

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u/Cyanide_Cheesecake 8d ago

The first impeachment was a good one, too.

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

“Our”

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u/shredika 8d ago

Didn’t you hear, it’s just one long day for the rest of the session

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u/Puzzled-Parsnip-8285 8d ago

If that's the case, then any politician that voted for that should only get paid for one, 8 hour day of work.

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u/StageAdventurous5988 8d ago

Congress can't even get Elon Musk to fucking testify.

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u/poop-dolla 8d ago

They could. They just won’t.

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u/Ferelar New Jersey 8d ago

Yeah, this is the thing. If Congress actually cared about making this stop they have a great number of tools. And if Trump still ignores those, then it's an absolutely justified removal from office by any means necessary. But if they never even care to attempt to stop it, nothing goes smoothly.

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u/PlayfulSurprise5237 8d ago

It makes you wonder if they aren't setting up something bigger that's consuming all of their time

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u/zernoc56 8d ago

Like what? What could possibly be bigger than to stop Trump and Elon carving up the country and selling the parts like a damn chop-shop?

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u/otoko_no_hito 7d ago

Just you wait until they start to float around the idea of a third term...

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u/zernoc56 7d ago

Only way that fat asshole is making it to a third term is by necromancy, so in the long term I’m worried about who the asshole to replace him is going to be.

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u/otoko_no_hito 6d ago

I must admit even I thought it would be a long shot, then not even 24 hours after my comment we got this...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2025/03/30/no-trump-wont-likely-get-to-run-for-a-third-term-heres-why/

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u/zernoc56 6d ago

I’m talking about him living that long. I’m frankly shocked he’s lived as long as he has with his diet and level of exercise.

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u/poop-dolla 8d ago

Like what?

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

congress can impeach him, and vote to remove him from office. that last bit depends on him obeying that ruling, same as the judicial ones. it's yet another trial. and that's assuming congress can get their shit together enough to even do that.

they don't have the power to actually physically remove him from office -- trump controls the executive branch, the people who execute those rulings. what happens if he just says "nah"?

there is always only one relevant question when it comes to authoritarians:

who does the military back?

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u/rckid13 8d ago

who does the military back?

Trump being removed would install Vance who isn't any better, or Mike Johnson who isn't any better. The military would probably follow along because nothing will change if they obey, and they get a fall guy. There would be a slightly bigger threat of stopping them if we had a democrat speaker of the house.

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u/African_Farmer Europe 8d ago

who does the military back?

Yup when it comes down to it, this is who can forcefully remove a ruler or allow the ruler to be removed by a mob of citizens by refusing to protect him.

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u/Polar_Vortx America 8d ago

Honestly, I think if Congress removed him from office, and Vance or whoever was sworn in, the military would follow suit. There is heavy, heavy emphasis placed on obeying the Constitution, not the whims of whoever’s in the White House.

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u/Thuyenlee 8d ago

In high posistions of power, you have to think like a narcissist. Its improbable someone got there without shady dealings, secret alliances and allegences. I do not think the military would follow the constitution if it is in direct opposistion with its best intrest, it would be dependent on the person within each soldier to decide if he would follow the orders or not and that in turn will create the calculus if the commander betrays or not, its simply variable and not a ganrantee

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u/Polar_Vortx America 8d ago edited 8d ago

All I can attest to is what the U.S. military teaches itself, and it’s not the same thing as the Prussians taught themselves. If you poke around what people like Mark Milley said, it’s clear what culture they’re trying to promote. I agree that it’s not a guarantee, and it’s not a binary, but in terms of their starting point I feel optimistic that without the warrior board nonsense that’s being floated the Pentagon will be very uncomfortable stepping into the shoes of the Wehrmacht.

Again - not a guarantee, but an inclination. Honestly, the mere existence of that “warrior boards” idea from a couple months ago is more concerning to me than half of DOGE’s activities for this reason.

Also, in the context of the military not supporting Trump after an impeachment and removal, the calculus is easier, since duty and morality are pulling against personality, instead of personality and duty pulling against morality.

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

Honestly, I think

well, hopefully you're right.

but this is definitely uncharted territory where we have to guess, and hope.

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u/MMigali 8d ago

Without a force that can make certain a judges has backup, the is no judicial system and

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u/greenyquinn 8d ago

25th amendment is amazing because it is written so vaguely.

I think Vance actually has an argument to unilaterally remove Trump from power since president is now the principal officer of the executive departments.

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u/PintsOfGuinness_ 8d ago

They're on the same side

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u/SmartWonderWoman California 8d ago

Exactly!

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u/seitonseiso 8d ago

I'm annoyed with myself that I can't remember her name... but there is a female congresswoman who today was questioning a male congressman about HIS bill he wrote, and how it gives up the power of congress to Trump/Elon, and they can't vote against him

It took 3 advisers whispering in his ear and getting it wrong. And another 50+ minutes of him waffling BS, that never answered her question and sidelined it

They're literally putting into power, their non-power. Idiots

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u/ViolaNguyen California 8d ago

If people wanted Congress to do its job, they probably shouldn't have voted for Republicans.

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u/SmartWonderWoman California 8d ago

Oof

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u/warpus 8d ago

Non-American here.

Do Americans now generally feel that your political system is broken? Are more checks and balances needed, since the existing ones didn't really do anything?

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u/rckid13 8d ago

Yes. It seems like the system wasn't designed to account for the fact that a president can just break laws, and congress would be complicit. The president can't really do anything he's doing via executive order if congress votes it down. He also can't disobey laws or order anyone else to do it if congress impeaches him for it. The judicial branch can't do anything because they don't control the police or military, so federal judges threatening him means nothing.

Apparently the judicial branch needs more power to actually enforce the laws they rule on.

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u/DicksFried4Harambe 8d ago

Careful if you say what happens next tho!

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u/accidental_Ocelot 8d ago

I mean if they really wanted to they could deputize a citizen posse and haul his ass in front of the court and then charge him with contempt but that would require some balls

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u/PedanticSatiation Europe 8d ago

I want to see this movie. Preferably directed by Quentin Tarantino.

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u/Kind-Category-941 8d ago

This needs to happen

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u/achshort 8d ago

lol good luck with that one

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u/Locke66 8d ago

In theory the Executive Branch should be kept in check by the threat of removal from office by the Legislative Branch but they've been turned into a bunch of sycophants with the cooperation of the MAGA movement & Trump's plutocrat backers thus breaking the system. At this point the US is a very short journey away from being a Managed Democracy type system. If Trump for example claims there is huge voter fraud in 2026 (which he obviously will) and uses it to ban the Democrat party or just invalidates the majority of results and hands the Republicans all the Congressional seats then the US is a dictatorship that can only be ended by a coup. I'd not be surprised to see him expand the Supreme Court either.

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

In theory the Executive Branch should be kept in check by the threat of removal from office by the Legislative Branch

i believe we're seeing the failure of our system of checks and balances in real time. there can be no check or balance against the branch that's in charge of executing the legislation and the judicial rulings. that branch holds all of the police and military power. they win.

the only recourse is, uh, revoking the social contract.

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u/NJcovidvaccinetips 8d ago

The founding fathers wrote many papers about how if our government wasn’t controlled by white wealthy land owning men it would all crumble especially if two distinct ideologically opposed groups formed. Our govt is based on being a negotiation between wealthy individuals not a democracy. The checks and balances are based on there not being these factions and the rich guys coming together to reprimand their own when they go too far. We’ve needed a new form of govt for decades now because the current system is not up to the task. Sadly we’ll keep running the same playbook written by evil men hundreds of years ago because we treat the constitution like it’s the Bible

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u/lainbear 8d ago

They can hold them in contempt

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u/offinthepasture 8d ago

And then what? The only actual course of action is Congressional impeachment and removal and that isn't going to happen. 

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u/lainbear 8d ago

You hold the people actually doing the arrests/transporting in contempt for not complying with the law. It takes more than one person to make these happen.

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u/offinthepasture 8d ago

Again, who arrests those in contempt?

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u/lainbear 8d ago

U.S. marshals

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u/ilostallmykarma I voted 8d ago

As Trump has proven, laws are just things written on paper, they don't have any actual power if people don't enforce them.

However, the same can be said with his power. It goes both ways. The people outnumber them.

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u/Kiwithegaylord 8d ago

That is the main problem with our system of government

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u/apathetic_peacock 2d ago

Or Congress… 

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u/racms 8d ago edited 8d ago

Your political system has apparents checks and balances. It depends of all people working in good faith and that is absurd

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u/offinthepasture 8d ago

Yep, we had faith humanity would prevail and treating people decency would win the day. When has that ever happened? It always devolves into corruption and fighting, always.