r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 I voted • 8d ago

Soft Paywall The Biggest Scandal of the Second Trump Term Isn’t “Signalgate” | The national-security chat debacle certainly merits attention. But the Trump administration is now blatantly disappearing students and others who are in the country legally.

https://newrepublic.com/article/193291/trump-disappearing-students-rumeysa-ozturk-rubio-biggest-scandal
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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

if anyone's surprised, they haven't been paying attention.

which is, unfortunately, half the country. most which still aren't paying attention.

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u/matarky1 Wyoming 8d ago

Because they aren't told, they don't look for information, they just accept whatever they are spoonfed from right-wing networks. Most will never hear about these things because Fox News and radio talk shows will never mention it, and if someone in their orbit does they'll just call it fake news because it wasn't from these networks. Propaganda is strong.

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u/bkbomber New York 8d ago

What’s worse is these shows don’t give facts, only opinions. They don’t report the news, only tell you how to feel about them after the story’s been spun in conservatives’ favor.

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u/RelevantJackWhite 8d ago

I'm a naturalized citizen. I told my therapist in December that I was stressed out about the notion of losing my citizenship. And she was just like "??? i thought he said just the criminals tho?? pretty sure it's just the criminals, he said so, this is confusing".

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

honestly, i'm the child of immigrants who were here on greencards when i was born. and i'm kind of concerned.

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u/mechengr17 8d ago

Some dude on reddit actually said not paying attention to the news if it's stressing you out is an option. Bc shoving your head in the sand totally works

And while I don't dispute the fact that the media makes money by exaggerating the news, this ain't it chief. But some people are convinced that it's "not that bad" and the news is just blowing things out of proportion

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

tbf, the news right now is a constant outrage cycle. it's needlessly stressful. doom scrolling doesn't do anything.

there's also a pretty pernicious effect of it -- and something i happen to think the media is complicit in. people who have studied the rise authoritarian regimes have noted that people don't react because every day is only a little bit worse than the last. there's no real "rubicon" moment, only a slow grinding descent into authoritarianism. you don't go from free country with equality to gassing millions of people overnight -- if you did, there would be outrage and revolution.

instead, you slowly normalize it. ICE has been rounding people up for decades. this is only a little different. we've had concentration camps on the borders for decades. this is only a little different. we've been expanding the power of the executing branch for decades. this is only a little different. congress has been ineffective and corrupt for decades. this is only a little different.

checking out for a bit might not only be healthier for your mental state, it might mean that you are more likely to act because you're more likely to perceive the change as sudden when they finally come for you.

so, to some extent, yes, i think shoving your head in the sand might work. what's not working is the constant outrage. the media loves this shit. they're profiting from it. how many articles about this have there been on here in the last two days. are you more informed about what's going on? or is it talking heads "slamming", outrage porn, and completely uninformative stories that might as well be chatgpt hallucinations? are you doing anything? can you do anything?

But some people are convinced that it's "not that bad" and the news is just blowing things out of proportion

no, it's worse. the media is underselling it. they're normalizing it. every day this is just a little bit different, a little bit worse, but the new normal. we're going some bad places, and we'll get there by wearing down people with constant outrage until we all give up.

we need to know what's going on, but the news ain't helping, because they're not about what's going on. they're about getting you outraged so you click on their article and their advertisers pay them. i can't count how many times on this sub alone i reply to these kinds of articles with pretty basic journalistic questions of "what's actually happening?" and "what steps are people actually taking?" and "what happens if... ?" and "and then what?"

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u/trickmind 8d ago

Half didn't vote for them. Close to half don't vote but Elon paid for many of those to vote in swing states.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Its not that we are not paying attention its that this is exactly what we voted for seeing anti americans having their visas revoked is going above and beyond the call of duty for Uncle Donnie and we love him for it.

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u/sethismee 8d ago

People aren't anti-american for disagreeing with your political views. Anti-status quo is not anti-american. I'd argue that people who want to see the country change for the better are anything but anti-american, even if they have different ideas of "better".

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Yeah firebombing american companies are people that want positive change, denying science that men and woman are not different sounds really great, fighting against finding corruption,fraud, and abuse all these are great changes. I would also argue supporting Hamas is anti american.

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

and what would argue pardoning the january 6th insurrectionists is?

what would you say elon gutting the funding for NASA while owning a rocket company is?

you don't live in reality.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

I would say because of bad funding policy NASA can no longer send its own astronauts to space so has to rely on Elon in order to get there and back like he just did when Biden left them stranded for 8 months. Second I would ask you how many FBI agents where at J6 and Why did Pelosi ask the National Guard to stand down. lol

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

Why did Pelosi ask the National Guard to stand down

you don't live in reality.

I would say because of bad funding policy NASA can no longer send its own astronauts to space so has to rely on Elon

you mean the government taking their funding away? like elon is doing?

let me know when you wrap your brain around that one.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Ah yes like Elon is doing taking away funding to useless entities of the government. You know a attempt to balance the budget and get on a course of responsible spending so outrageous

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

useless stuff, like the science funding.

wait, are you pro-science or anti-science?

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Like the Department Of Education that was founded in 1979 with a budget of 80 billion dollars a year a agency that has contributed nothing to the development of our children

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

I would also say whats worse a rally at the capital or Liberals firebombing US companies see you guys are already to influenced by Hamas but its normal for the young and dumb to be so impressionable.

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

a rally at the capital

you don't live in reality.

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u/schlebb 8d ago

*insurrection. You’re a lunatic

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Call it what you want insurrection or not I believe as a american not only do you have the right but you have the duty to overthrow a tyranny and that is exactly what a stolen election is. Funny CNN never covers Trump rallies but happened to be their the day they tried to kill him hmmmmmm.

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u/sethismee 8d ago

It sounds like you haven't taken the time to try to understand the opinions of people you disagree with. I don't think many of them deny that there are differences between men and women or are against fighting corruption. There's a lot of nuance to all of these stances that you seem to be missing. They all certainly do want positive change.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

no its actually pretty black and white without much nuance to it at all, that is just a scapgoat argument. Give me a topic you think is nuanced ?

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

a scapegoat, like where you just blamed jews for the holocaust and repeated literal nazi propaganda?

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Well are you a history major or not ? because propaganda tends to be false statements and if you are in fact a historian you would know that every single statement I made was a true statement or are those facts not true did I lie ?

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

you have me confused with rinnosuke

but no, those statements are false, and are in fact lies invented by literal german national socialists as motivation for the holocaust. you are repeating literal nazism.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Well your actually wrong so the Socialist were able to forge a newspaper clipping claiming that Judas declares war on Germany 1933

Then somehow the Reich went back into time a framed that the Roman Empire in 70CE expelled the jews

England 1290 King Edward expelled the jews

France 1182,1306,1394 expelled the jews 3 times

Spain 1492

Portugal 1497

Austria 1421,1670

Papal States 1569,1593 and the list goes on and on into modern times

And somehow the Nazis were able to change current history as a common fact that the MAY 10th 1933 Which im not even going to argue because that info is readily available see this is what happens when people dont know their history you end up looking stupid

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u/sethismee 8d ago

What? Who's the scapegoat here?

Specifically the topics you mentioned are all nuanced topics that you minimized and dismissed. Like gender issues, which you mischaractorized as people not believing in a difference between sexes, supporting Palestinian independence, which you characterized as supporting Hamas. I don't really want to get into these topics with you, I just think the way you described these issues suggests that you don't really understand the opinions of others and I think it's valuable to do so. It might help you argue better if that's any motivation :P

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u/bunny_fae 8d ago

How is supporting PALESTINE (in all caps because Palestinians do not equal Hamas) anti American? One can make the argument that they are anti Israel, but how is it anti American exactly?

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Their is no difference between a Palastinian and Hamas this is the same reason why none of the middle eastern countries want to take in any of their refugees

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u/bunny_fae 8d ago

So you support legal green card holders being kidnapped on the street by masked men?

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Are they US citizens because if they are not US citizens then I fully support it yes.

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u/bunny_fae 8d ago

So you don't support any legal immigration whatsoever

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

No I support legal Immigration but the time between being a immigrant and being a actual US citizen you may be asked to leave at anytime for any reason.

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u/bunny_fae 8d ago

Being asked to leave is completely different from being snatched up on the street by ICE wearing hoodies and masks to conceal their identities, given no due process, and taken to a prison outside of the country known for its inhumane practices and torture, with no contact to their family whatsoever. Do you think this is proper treatment to legal immigrants attending US universities with their green card?

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Its my understanding that only a certain amount of illegals are being taken to El Salvador that meet certain criteria. So I wouldnt conflate the two different circumstances. Also I could understand that they are picking people up to keep from giving them a chance to go into hiding. Also again I would say that the time between immigrant status and naturalized citizen you can be asked or removed at anytime for any reason. Also you have no proof of inhumane treatment or torture, If your referring to head shaving that is neither.

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u/bunny_fae 8d ago

Maybe you should read the article you're commenting on. Green card holders can have their status revoked but there is a legal process. Even when you commit a crime, there is a process before you go straight to jail. Our president was even found guilty of federal crimes but was not able to be sentenced because he became president. What's happening here is that green card holders and other LEGAL immigrants are being targeted for things that aren't even crimes (the woman in the article posted an Op-Ed which is within her rights of freedom of speech) and taken directly to prison with no due process whatsoever. This is very bad.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

There is no court hearing for the Visa or Green Card their is a hearing regarding the deportation itself. This is why the Aliens Enemies Act of 1798 was introduced to expedite the process now if you dont like the act you can go to congress and the house and repeal it but as of right now it is the law. Not to mention Uncle Donnie will be passing a bill to make sure lower level federal judges can quit playing lawfare. Its funny the liberals only hate the law when it goes against their agenda its funny that the same judge has gotten the 4th case for Trump when it is in fact supposed to be random. But of course liberals do not care about fairness when its not in their favor.

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

go back to your bubble.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

If anything Im out of my bubble see im not in a echo chamber, patting myself on the back on who can be the most outraged. That is the difference between liberals and Republicans we dont have a fear of questioning the norm or debating unlike the liberal who will only place themselves in a area where everyone agrees with them.

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

aw, you think we're debating, that's cute.

yeah, but no, my comment above was mostly aimed at the "shocked and outraged" liberals, and the less than brainwashed MAGA folks who are slowly realizing they voted against their own interests.

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u/Johnnydeep4206 8d ago

Yes the party of liberals who's party of intolerance of dissent, closed system of logic, and religious overtones are more like a cult then a political party.

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u/arachnophilia 8d ago

one of our parties goes around wearing stupid hats, waving giant flags that aren't, ya know, the american flag, and supporting a guy who is so obviously just using them. if anyone's in a cult, it's you.

in fact, two of those things are known as "credibility enhancing displays" or "CrEDs", which are common way that cult members act. it's like the virtue-signaling you probably accuse of libs of, except, ya know, about shit that's not virtuous.

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u/bunny_fae 8d ago

What party is supporting Christian nationalism? Because it's not the liberals. "Religious overtones" lmao that's funny.