The Biggest Scandal of the Second Trump Term Isn’t “Signalgate” | The national-security chat debacle certainly merits attention. But the Trump administration is now blatantly disappearing students and others who are in the country legally.

[u/Murky-Site7468]

https://newrepublic.com/article/193291/trump-disappearing-students-rumeysa-ozturk-rubio-biggest-scandal

[u/SchmartestMonkey]

Anyone who dares to try and defend this should be asked how they would feel if they were legally in any other country.. especially a first-world ally, and they were grabbed up by masked men, thrown into an unmarked vehicle and held without charges because of their expressed political opinions.

Could you imagine the hair-on-fire screaming and calls for a declaration of war if Steve Bannon (or any other American right-wing agitator) was grabbed up like this in any European country?

This is 100% straight-up Stasi shit. They're the raptors testing the fence.. they'll try this on US political opponents next if we can't figure out how to slap this down now.

The other thing that terrifies me is that they've actually managed to single out people like this. How many people in the US knew anything about this student before her kidknapping? Even people who actually read her Op-Ed probably didn't bother to look at the author's names or.. if they did.. forgot them 30 seconds later. They're actively looking for people to treat like this. They're not reacting to actual (or imagined) threats to the US.. they're actively looking for people to punish. That should terrify everyone.

[u/Cute-Contract-6762 → u/SchmartestMonkey]

It doesn’t stop here either. If they can do this, what is to stop them from doing the same to people who are naturalized citizens? And then to people born here? It’s never just got to stop at a certain point

[u/CuddaShuddaWudda → u/[deleted]]

Exactly!! So scary!! Why are people putting up with this shit? We can’t wait for mid terms. Where are our representatives that we ELECTED into office and why are not sharing the same anger???

[u/SchmartestMonkey → u/CuddaShuddaWudda]

Hitler was elected Chancellor in 33. It wasn’t till ‘38 that he was demanding the Sudetenland.

Trump has already launched an attack into Sudan, threatened to launch missiles into Mexico and has lobbed veiled (and sometimes overt) threats at Greenland, Panama, and Canada.

We are speed-running into Fascism. We’re replaying the rise of the Nazis on 12X speed.

[u/allneonunlike → u/SchmartestMonkey]

They’re working with the Israeli doxxing org/Shin Bet project Canary Mission, which has spent years compiling and publishing lists of students and professors who criticize Israel. They’re singling out exemplary people to punish— doctorate students, two Fulbright scholars, a cancer doctor, a Cheverning scholar— to send the message that even if you follow the rules, even if you’re the most respectable person imaginable, they will still come for you. All the old ideals about wanting immigrants who would be a credit to this country thrown in the trash. Rumesya only wrote an op-ed, but she wasn’t selected from the list because she had a high profile in the BDS or student encampment movements, but because she was a Fulbright scholar they wanted to make an example of.

[u/Green-Amount2479 → u/[deleted]]

That’s a really difficult take imho. For example how would you feel if I said „Every US citizen is obviously ok with Trump, because they elected him.“? Same thing with Palestinians and Hamas. If we’re talking actual numbers: less Palestinians support Hamas than US citizens support the Republican party. Would that give me the right to call each and every US citizen a Trump supporter? That’s the core issue with your take as I see it.

You simplify the issue way too much here. I get it, it makes the discussion a lot easier and you don’t have to deal with the moral arguments about what are at best war crimes on the other side and at worst the borderline genocide at this point.

Israel under Netanyahu started to behave less like a righteous victim specifically since the attack. Much like the US under Trump now the new Israeli modus operandi contains a similar lingering imperialistic tint (West Bank, Golan Heights, other Syrian territories).

We can talk about antisemitsm and the existential right of Israel all we want. That’s fine, and those things should get talked about. But the other issues where Israel is the perpetrator won’t simply go away just because we close our eyes and pretend Israel is the forever victim. We preached the same things in the West for the past decades and in recent times their government does not behave that way anymore.

[u/CaptinACAB → u/[deleted]]

Are you paid to spread Hasbara or do you do it for free because cheering on a genocide is a hobby? https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566

Edit: yea looks like you’ve put in a full workday overnight based on your comment history. Which county are you commenting from?

[u/CaptinACAB → u/[deleted]]

I asked you calm simple questions. Maybe answer some of you’re allowed to.

[u/CaptinACAB → u/[deleted]]

Still at work? Did you block me? How long till you clock out?

[u/CaptinACAB → u/[deleted]]

Looks like you log in about every 10 hours for work. Either the night shift, or more likely you’re overseas pretending to be American. Your day is almost over. Hopefully you get some good rest after a long day of being on the wrong side of history.

[u/0x7c365c → u/allneonunlike]

Good.

I don't want any of these people here. They are guests here and they have worn out their welcome.

This is the one thing the Trump admin is doing that Biden should have done immediately and maybe we wouldn't be living in a Republican administration.

If you want to come to this country just to protest you can fuck right off.

[u/mathmage → u/0x7c365c]

You're talking about a Fulbright scholar who wrote an op-ed. If that's all it takes for someone to become one of "these people" to you, you can fuck right off.

[u/elizabnthe → u/[deleted]]

She doesn't even mention Hamas. There's nothing controversial there. You might disagree with her point of view on what is going on in Gaza in relation to Israel's actions - as would be your right. But that doesn't make her statement supportive or in anyway politically aligned with Hamas.

To believe it to be so is to posit that nobody can criticise Israel's military.

[u/elizabnthe → u/[deleted]]

Asking the University to stop investing in Israel in relation to student views won't bankrupt Israel - heck she even acknowledges that the University may not want to take a political position, which she'd be fine with it she felt that they weren't also suppressing campus free speech.

And no it does not mean that somebody supports Hamas. People can both criticise Hamas, and have moral opposition to the IDF's actions in Gaza. They're not contradictory. Why does someone have to support Israel and 100% back their POV of the conflict? You can disagree with them. Find it naive. Find it even misinformed. That doesn’t make them Hamas supporters. And especially doesn't equal a valid reason for deportation.

[u/mathmage → u/[deleted]]

I encourage anyone who's gotten this far to actually read the op-ed and decide for themselves if this is a fair characterization. I disagree.

Regardless, it does nothing to diminish the characterization of the top-level comment:

masked men kidnapping women off the streets for writing an op-ed.

Are we to undermine our own rule of law because we don't like what she wrote? Are we going to make every noncitizen resident wonder if anything in their written history might be dredged up and used to justify masked men turning up at their door? Or if any tattoo on their body might get them shipped off to a foreign prison camp?

How much damage do you want to do to this country in the name of punishing people like her?

[u/0x7c365c → u/mathmage]

She can write all the Op-Eds she wants from Turkey. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[u/Sandgrease → u/0x7c365c]

You're gonna lose your first amendment rights soon too.

[u/elizabnthe → u/0x7c365c]

You get the point of first they came for?

[u/Djamalfna → u/0x7c365c]

Someday, someone you supported with this bullshit is going to throw you in a deep, dark prison cell from which you will never escape.

Your thoughts will consist mainly of "oh no" and "make it stop".

And I'll cherish every moment of your personal hell.

[u/0x7c365c → u/Djamalfna]

I literally voted to prevent this and explained to you why it's happening but you wanna get mad and threaten me. Cool bro. This is why you lose elections.

This country has never been what you think it is. The things this country is doing now compared to what it did in the past to blacks, native americans, the japanese, and lgbtq people is absolutely nothing.

Biden was this country's chance to be civilized. Now we have a shit show over reaction.

[u/Djamalfna → u/0x7c365c]

You're cheering on the total removal of civil rights in this nation.

"I" didn't lose the election. You did. We all did.

Someday you'll learn. Too late, I expect.

[u/GiraffeDizzy4576 → u/Djamalfna]

Can’t argue against the argument so you attack the person? A little temper tantrum huh?

[u/Djamalfna → u/GiraffeDizzy4576]

It's not an attack to point out the logical conclusion of their beliefs.

[u/FloridaGirlNikki → u/0x7c365c]

People like you are what is bringing this country down. What would you do if your kid was studying abroad, an exemplary student whose done nothing wrong, and they get picked up on the street?

Not to mention that we are getting rid of experts at every level. They WANT the masses to be ignorant so they can control us.

You've completely lost sight of what America has ALWAYS stood for! We don't even deserve the Statue of Liberty anymore.

Because of people like you. Why, because she's muslim? Or because people are brown?

You're happy that we have a fascist government disappearing people because they hate the right people. I bet you wouldn't feel that way if they starting coming for the irish or italians or whatever anglo-saxon country your family IMMIGRATED from.

Disgusting.

[u/0x7c365c → u/FloridaGirlNikki]

Literally the entire world wants to come here. I'd rather invite people that actually like us. It's really that simple.

[u/FloridaGirlNikki → u/0x7c365c]

Have you ever heard of free speech? Anyone in the country are protected from that. If you don't like it, maybe Russia is the place for you. Since you apparently don't believe in the 1st Amendment or freedom of the press.

It used to be that everyone wanted to come here. The more we allow things like this to happen, the less people will be trying to come in. We are the laughing stock of the world right now and we lose more and more respect from our allies every single day.

It's just like I said before, you're ok with fascism because they're going after the right people.

[u/work4work4work4work4 → u/FloridaGirlNikki]

It's just like I said before, you're ok with fascism because they're going after the right people.

You'll note, he doesn't argue with this, he just keeps talking about wanting to import more right-wing fascists that like right-wing fascism into the country. That moment when "the Great Replacement" they talked about is in actuality a right-wing plot to solidify American fascism.

[u/FloridaGirlNikki → u/work4work4work4work4]

Excellent point, thank you for making it!

Isn't it so funny how he went from we want to invite more like us, to we have too many people? It's just so obvious.

[u/0x7c365c → u/FloridaGirlNikki]

At some point ya'll are gonna have to come to realize this continent is full and we can't keep accepting everyone. I don't want North America to be as full as China. North America has doubled it's population in only 80 years. It's not sustainable and our children are going to suffer for your moral high ground.

[u/FloridaGirlNikki → u/0x7c365c]

LMAO!

This is literally the DUMBEST retort I've seen. We have too many people? C'mon, you have to know how fucking asinine that is. Especially since we have people like Bannon and Musk saying we need more babies! Oh, but that's right. They mean white babies.

Don't think I don't see you moving the goalpost either. You just said in your last response its because 'she doesn't like us'. Then when I make an argument you can't refute, you change it to something else.

Just own it. You are ok with people being picked up off the street in masks and plain clothes, won't identify themselves, and sending people without due process. Because it's the right kind of people in your mind. Constitution be damned, amirite?

[u/0x7c365c → u/FloridaGirlNikki]

Simply supply and demand. There's only so much land. Just look at the price of housing.

Anyway I'm not a conservative so shrug

I also don't care enough to debate you. I don't know why you're acting like this is some forum for great debate. It's not. It's reddit comments. No one cares.

Voting is the only thing that matters.

[u/FloridaGirlNikki → u/0x7c365c]

Hahaha now you don't want to debate. That's ok. We all saw how you went from 'wanting to invite people who like us' to 'we have too many people' as you attempt to defend the indefensible.

This isn't about conservatism. It's about fascism. We have laws in this country. Accept it or GTFOH.

Run along now and have a nice day.

[u/elizabnthe → u/0x7c365c]

She didn't write anything against the US. It was purely about Israel which is not the US.

And the values America holds dear means there should be nothing more patriotic than being able to criticise your own country.

[u/a_f_s-29 → u/0x7c365c]

No they don’t. Canada can’t cancel their flights quickly enough. Europeans are scared to set foot in your dystopian shithole of a country. Nobody likes you anymore. And for good reason.

I bet you have no clue what she actually said either.

[u/0x7c365c → u/a_f_s-29]

Your country literally arrests native citizens for what they say on Twitter. Spare me your moral high horse.

America is dystopian shitehole of a country? Bitch, please. I make 5x your average salary and I'll have enough saved to retire by 55. Your country can't even pay me what I'm worth. Meanwhile living in California I have single payer healthcare at a fraction of the NHS with far better outcomes. The top cancer research institutions are in my backyard and are funded easily without any federal assistance.

My county is 50% Hispanic. I haven't seen a single ICE officer. There's a difference between Reddit and reality.

[u/GiraffeDizzy4576 → u/0x7c365c]

Careful, you’re gonna rustle a lot of jimmies with that logic. It blows my mind that so called Americans are defending non-citizens who are sowing discord and chaos. It’s even more ironic that their actions are illegal in the countries where these people come from

[u/Djamalfna → u/GiraffeDizzy4576]

sowing discord and chaos

Writing an op-ed is chaos?

What kind of unhinged take is this?

[u/GiraffeDizzy4576 → u/Djamalfna]

Sowing division and fanning the flames of the “pro-Palestine” movement is chaos. These people are encouraging and some are outright organizing the violent “protests” that have been proven to have links to support & funding from overseas entities (e.g. Qatar ).

It’s unhinged to think this is ok. No other country would allow this

[u/Djamalfna → u/GiraffeDizzy4576]

Under your reasoning your post is also sowing division.

So I look forward to you being locked up in El Salvador then. Cheers ;)

[u/SchmartestMonkey → u/GiraffeDizzy4576]

Yes, a college op-ed that suggests maybe we should take an International Courts findings seriously is.. checks notes... "sowing discord and chaos".

CHAOS!! I heard the streets of Medford MA ran red with blood the night that OP-ed was published. It was truly horrific.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret.. everyone inside the borders of the United States is afforded the protections guaranteed by the US Constitution. I know, it's infuriating.. but even people here on travel or student VISAs are protected from unlawful searches & seizures.. and guaranteed due process. They even have First Amendment protections! (oh where is my fainting couch?!?)

There are many regulations on many of our Constitutionally afforded rights. For example,.. you have freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean you can't be prosecuted for conspiring to commit a crime, for committing perjury, or for issuing threats of violence against someone. There is, however, no legislative cut-out saying non-citizens can be prosecuted for political speech that the current leadership doesn't like.

BTW.. sorry to hear your entire mind was blown. I'm guessing.. light spring breeze?

[u/jackaroo1344 → u/GiraffeDizzy4576]

I guess some of us still support free speech, I know not every American believes in American values though

[u/redditlvlanalysis → u/GiraffeDizzy4576]

Some of us still believe in freedom of speech

[u/ShameBasedEconomy → u/redditlvlanalysis]

And due process. The right to defend ourselves. This is being done with zero process and kidnapping people off the street with zero badges or identification.

[u/NickelBackwash → u/SchmartestMonkey]

Terrifying people is the point. 

It's literal terrorism. 

They want the people scared.

[u/elihu → u/SchmartestMonkey]

They're actively looking for people to treat like this. They're not reacting to actual (or imagined) threats to the US.. they're actively looking for people to punish.

That's probably part of it, but also I think they wanted to establish a precedent of apprehending people they don't like, and the most likely way to succeed is by targeting someone that they don't think the Democratic party is going to stick their neck out to defend. (Once that's accomplished they can move on to other targets like journalists, scientists, lawyers, political leaders, and so on.)

The Democratic leadership is unlikely to speak out to defend someone who they think of as a political liability and who was critical of Biden policies, and the blue MAGA internet hoards (or propagandists and AI chatbots imitating the same) are going to point and laugh and say "leopards ate her face".

The best defense against this is to protest loudly now and not throw anybody under the bus.

[u/ratlunchpack → u/SchmartestMonkey]

It was my understanding she was already on a list being monitored by the Israeli government. I would assume they just handed their wishlist over to Trump team and said “have at.” But the biggest purveyors of social media and personal data are at the presidents disposal.

[u/rainblowfish_ → u/SchmartestMonkey]

Anyone who dares to try and defend this should be asked how they would feel if they were legally in any other country.. especially a first-world ally, and they were grabbed up by masked men, thrown into an unmarked vehicle and held without charges because of their expressed political opinions.

They all just say they wouldn't dare speak on politics if they were a visitor in a foreign country.

[u/ikatako38 → u/SchmartestMonkey]

They just keep saying, “Try this in another country and see what happens. The U.S. is the only country that’s this lenient and that has to change”

Like… no??? I’m on a student visa in Japan rn and I can guarantee you that I could write something bad about the government and not be kidnapped by masked men and deported.

Even if I overstayed my visa here, I still would not be put on a plane and sent to a prison in El Salvador indefinitely—if they eventually found out they’d probably just give me the chance to self-deport. Or worst-case scenario forced deportation.

[u/Motor-Most3382 → u/SchmartestMonkey]

I think in some cases other people have turned them in. Stasi-like.

[u/PC_L0AD_LETTER_WTF → u/SchmartestMonkey]

It's funny you mentioned other countries doing this to Americans and what their reactions would be.

My MAGA dad just justified this behavior because "Other countries do this to us all the time."

He doesn't believe the people here illegally have the right to due process. I asked him what he thinks the term "inalienable rights" means. Innocent until proven guilty. These people aren't even given the chance to prove themselves one way or another.

He just shrugged and said, well let's just agree to disagree.