r/science • u/Sort_of_Frightening • Sep 10 '23

Chemistry Lithium discovery in U.S. volcano could be biggest deposit ever found

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/lithium-discovery-in-us-volcano-could-be-biggest-deposit-ever-found/4018032.article
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u/MC_Babyhead Sep 10 '23 edited Sep 10 '23

Stop waiting for this guy. I think he found out you were right and just didn't follow up. The only advantage sodium ion has over lithium is cost of materials, temperature range, less reactive but more conductive(higher C-rate). Soon even those advantages will be negated by li-ion's economy of scale, increasing energy density, and extended cycle life. The next generation of NMC li-ion will settle this debate for good. The cycle life on the test cells being developed by Tesla have now reached 19.5k cycles, equivalent to 3.7 million miles or 53 years as stationary storage. Furthermore, at 16.5k cycles they are seeing very little degredation so it's not even known how long these cells with last but it seems like they might outlive their owners. The best part is you only need to supply the world once because the anode and cathode are 100% recyclable.

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20221222VL205/ev-battery-sodium-ion.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095809922003630

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u/Drachefly Sep 10 '23

The only advantage sodium ion has over lithium is cost of materials and weight

weight? Sodium is heavier. It's sheerly in materials cost. If Li production cannot keep pace with grid storage demand increases, Sodium has a chance to be significant. If it can, never mind.

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u/MC_Babyhead Sep 10 '23

You are correct, I'll change the post and add new things I learned while being incorrect. I'll add some good articles I found too. My other point stands however that these NMC cells will commercialize Vehicle to Grid and lower the amount of stationary storage we will need to be 100% recyclable. In California you can see right now the problems that happen with high solar penetration. Huge spike in production during the afternoon, followed by a huge crash in the evening. We are really only taking about the 4-5 hours from getting home from work and going to bed that need to be transitioned away from carbon power. Most people that want EVs for road trips will have way more battery than they need for daily commutes anyway and I bet would love a new revenue stream just by plugging in your car as much as humanly possible. Tesla Powerwall owners in Texas are already doing this and making up to 150$ per day when the grid is stressed (which is most of the year now). The only thing stopping this is anxiety about losing battery life but I'm telling you this is about to end in a very big way. Tesla has already said all on-board vehicle chargers will have bi-directional capability going forward. Mark my words.