r/science • u/chrisdh79 • Oct 09 '24

Neuroscience Your Brain Changes Based on What You Did Two Weeks Ago | A workout or restless night from two weeks ago could still be affecting you—positively or negatively—today.

https://www.newsweek.com/brain-changes-neuroscience-exercise-sleep-health-two-weeks-1965107
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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/pataoAoC Oct 09 '24

Good questions...and also: what about the minor brain trauma that comes from reading this article directly after a horrible night of sleep? :( I have this negative spiral problem where I get stressed about some things which then makes sleeping worse...which I get stressed about...

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u/chicklette Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24

Something that helped me a lot was reading an article that basically said laying quietly in a dark room with your eyes closed is almost as good as sleep.

This really helps my anxiety when I start to spiral over not getting enough sleep and freaking out about my insomnia. Hope it helps.

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u/craftasaurus Oct 09 '24

My mom told me this when I was a little child. It does work.

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u/hellogentlerose Oct 09 '24

So real. I keep that in mind when I cant fall asleep right away or wake up in the middle of the night.

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u/xflameshadowx Oct 09 '24

Sounds like a paradoxical metal exercise. Basically you stop trying to force yourself to sleep. You just submit to whatever your mind will let you do and the act of accepting you won't sleep often helps you do that very thing.

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u/CountVanillula Oct 09 '24

paradoxical metal exercise

New band name. I call it.

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u/chicklette Oct 09 '24

Ehh, this is more of a resting vs. tricking. There are some nights that I am just not going to sleep, and I still have to be productive the next day. So I just lay quietly, let my brain do whatever it wants, and the next day, I'll be tired, but not dangerously exhausted. It's almost like lucid dreaming, but you're not that far under.

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u/Wassux Oct 09 '24

I have the same and came to the same conclusion/discovery.

Insomnia sucks so much more than people realise. I didn't sleep at all the night before the last one, and it still took me an hour to fall asleep last night. It's wild.

I try to look at the positive, at least accidentally falling asleep behind the wheel isn't going to happen :)

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u/wowwoahwow Oct 09 '24

Yeah I read something similar about how when you can’t fall asleep it’s better to at least rest than to try to actively do things because you’re awake. I used to think that since I couldn’t sleep I may as well clean all not. Rest was way better for me, and I would usually eventually fall asleep anyways

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u/Ms_Emilys_Picture Oct 09 '24

I have been averaging three hours of sleep a night and I'm starving because I just started a cut. I got an hour and a half last night and ended up crying in the shower this morning.

Thank you. I'm going to try this.

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u/offthewall1066 Oct 09 '24

You might want to lower your deficit a bit and eat carbs at night before bed

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u/chicklette Oct 09 '24

I really hope it helps!

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u/YOLOSELLHIGH Oct 09 '24

I wonder if this is why when I lay down to nap, even if I don’t sleep, I still feel better when I get up

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u/mozgw4 Oct 09 '24

Another thing I read was just telling yourself the next day that you did have a good sleep, rather than keep remembering the poor sleep. Convince yourself. It does actually help.

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u/NoamLigotti Oct 09 '24

Yes, I heard about research supposedly suggesting this.

Maybe not just "telling yourself," but believing you got enough sleep — something like that.

I think it was people who got less than six (?) hours sleep but believed they got (either more than six hours or an adequate amount of sleep) felt more well-rested the next day than those who got six hours sleep but didn't believe this.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/soofs Oct 09 '24

Isn’t this similar to progressive muscle relaxation? My psychiatrist recommended doing this and mentioned yoga nidra as he learned about it while living in India

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u/Psinuxi_ Oct 09 '24

I read similar way back when I first started to really struggle with sleep. I really think it works. Knowing that, even though I'm not sleeping but still contributing something to my rest, is comforting.

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u/ceebee4564 Oct 09 '24

Used to do this in high school for theatre. The teacher made it part of the class (it's a long time ago so can't remember if it was for a regular class or that I was apart of the school's ensemble) and even took it a step further by having us practice mindfulness. Basically pretend there's a ball of energy starting at the top of your head and you "feel" it slowly work it's way down your body, through your arms, fingers, legs and toes.

Still try and use the technique today and it helps. I'm sure it's one of those things that feels different for everyone, but for me, it always felt kinda like cleaning with a lint roller. Like any minor, negative, physical feeling I have is being taken with the ball.

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u/BluBoi236 Oct 09 '24

Huge if true.

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u/LemonBearTheDragon Oct 09 '24

Yes! I think I remember that the scientists measured brain waves/activity when just lying down with your eyes closed and found it was similar to that when you were actually asleep. I'm going off memory so someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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u/trobsmonkey Oct 09 '24

I do this every single day.

I have a floor mat, I lay down with my dogs and a fan with a 30 minute alarm. Not long enough to sleep. But enough to just rest.

I swear to god it's amazing and everyone should take a short break like that if they can.

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u/Admirable-Job-7191 Oct 09 '24

This really seems to vary from person to person. I know someone for whom this works whereas it does absolutely nothing for me apart from probably getting my blood pressure even more non-functional. 

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u/Reallyhotshowers Grad Student | Mathematics | BS-Chemistry-Biology Oct 09 '24

The point of this is its supposed to take the pressure off of you to sleep, as a lot of insomnia is anxiety driven and a cycle of worrying about not sleeping that keeps you awake. Telling yourself that laying down in a dark room is basically the same is a way of mitigating the anxiety of not sleeping.

It didn't work for me either. Had a therapist tell me to just get up and start doing stuff when I couldn't fall back asleep instead of laying around in bed. I'd get up but reserve generally unpleasant tasks for this time, like studying for a test (as a professional adult it would probably be writing documentation or learning a new technology). This wore me out faster and wound up being a bit helpful in my initial falling asleep, and occasionally I'd get in a nap before actual day to day activities began. Basically a combination of giving up control of your sleep schedule + pairing when you should be sleeping with extremely mentally exhausting activities.

Just some food for thought.

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u/NoamLigotti Oct 09 '24

So, just lying in a dark room with one's eyes closed isn't actually nearly as good as sleep, it's just meant to help people fall asleep?

That's a big difference.

Anyone know what the science would suggest is true?

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u/jayraan Oct 09 '24

I've done this a lot when I can't sleep and I definitely feel like it helps too! I personally suspect it might work similar to meditation, or at least it makes me feel similarly calm and slightly energized when getting up, even if I didn't get the sleep I needed. You're definitely still giving your body a rest, and if you're not actively doing anything, I'm guessing a good part of your brain is resting too.

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u/ehead Oct 09 '24

Unfortunately, this is the best I can do sometimes.

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u/PM_me_your_whatevah Oct 09 '24

Getting checked for mineral deficiencies is a really good idea. Over half of people are low on magnesium.

I’ve started magnesium supplements 3 days ago and I’m no longer clenching my jaw, back muscles loosened up, anxiety and all the meaningless chatter in my brain has mellowed out. I even slept 6 hours straight without waking, for the first time in forever.

As you mentioned, controlling anxiety is crucial. You can definitely get into a loop of your head messing with your body and your body messing with with your head right back. Just keeps amplifying itself. 

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u/toan55 Oct 09 '24

Source please?

1

u/tyrico Oct 09 '24

Something that helped me a lot was reading an article that basically said laying quietly in a dark room with your eyes closed is almost as good as sleep.

I've read this too, yet it doesn't stop me from feeling like ass when it's finally time to get out of bed.

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u/chicklette Oct 09 '24

Yeah, doesn't always work, but for me it's the difference between "I can get through today" and "I have to call out because I can't remember where i work."

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

[deleted]

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u/lifeisalime11 Oct 09 '24

I always think of this saying: Do you all of a sudden hate the world and everyone in it? Eat something. Do you all of a sudden think that everyone in the world hates you? Take a nap.

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u/squashed_tomato Oct 09 '24

Also if you've been indoors for a couple of days in a row for whatever reason and you are getting irritable go for a walk.

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u/RancidYetti Oct 09 '24

I’ve never heard that saying, and I grew up with my grandparents so I’ve heard most everything! 

Definitely gonna use that one. 

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u/Randybigbottom Oct 09 '24

I was told to drink in addition to eat when I'm "hangry". Grandpa was an instructor for desert warfare (or sth that deals with training in the desert), and he constantly praised the virtues of being hydrated. He said dehydration turns Devil Dogs into snippy, ineffective devil puppies.

"If dehydration can fuck up a Marine, it'll do the same or worse to you" was something 6 y/o me never forgot.

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u/Astyanax1 Oct 09 '24

Wise.  Not easy to remember in the moment though 

0

u/thejaytheory Oct 09 '24

Eat a Snickers

Edit: This is really good advice though

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u/PeakOko Oct 09 '24

Y'all are getting sleep?

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u/MerkelousRex Oct 09 '24

Not at all, just had a baby.

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u/Leasir Oct 09 '24

If it can be of any comfort to you: it gets much better.

Not soon enough though.

And also it gets much worse in other aspects.

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u/craftasaurus Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24

You’re doing the lords work there. Keep it up! The rest of the world thanks you

Edit: Maybe I should have said CONGRATULATIONS!!! Sleep will come eventually.

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u/OswaldCobopot Oct 09 '24

What a wild and crazy thing to say to a stranger

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u/fhgsgjtt12 Oct 09 '24

Not really, the world isn’t having enough babies in the western nations, we will see a decline in a lot of countries in our lifetime

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u/OswaldCobopot Oct 09 '24

Would you walk up to someone pushing a stroller and say that to their face? Because you'd look insane

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

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u/craftasaurus Oct 09 '24

I always smile at people caring for children. They need encouragement, just as we all do. It is a largely thankless job, after all. The only thanks society gives you is MAYBE a 6 week maternity leave if that. At least women aren't fired for being pregnant anymore, like they were when I was young. And besides, this is reddit, where everyone is a stranger.

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u/dennisisspiderman Oct 09 '24

we will see a decline in a lot of countries in our lifetime

The decline would happen even if people were popping out babies left and right, because there are much bigger issues in western nations (if we're talking places like the US) than lower birth rates.

Want higher birth rates? Work on fixing the current issues in those countries that is causing the decline in birth rates. Increase the quality of living, give workers better rights, provide health care, make it safe for children to go to school, properly fund public education, secure the medical rights of people, get rid of the Nazis, make people feel safe being open about who they are, etc.

Trying to shame those people by making comments about hos they're going against "the lord" isn't doing anything but making you look like a weirdo.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

I always manage to struggle with sleep on Thursday nights because I don’t want to ruin my weekend and my body likes to do what I don’t want to do. Then I stay up late on Friday which makes it worse because I’m no longer capable of sleeping past 7AM, and I basically end up spending the whole weekend tired.

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u/elfbro Oct 09 '24

This is where self soothing comes into play, basically your ability to bounce back from negative stimuli. It is its own skill, some people are very good at it and some people cannot self soothe what so ever, and may fall into a category of a disorder.

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u/KilluaKanmuru Oct 09 '24

Yeah self-soothing is learnable. It can lead to these altered states of consciousness called the jhanas during meditation, and when your mind learns how to relate to stimuli well enough, which is equanimity, the mind locks in the skill permanently like learning how to walk. r/streamentry talks more about paths toward this outcome.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24 edited Nov 06 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/thoreau_away_acct Oct 09 '24

Hare Krishna Krishna hare... All seems nice until a few months later you're at some compound and a yogi "master" is telling you they need to sodomize you so you can understand his teachings better

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u/thejaytheory Oct 09 '24

I kinda got sucked into a rabbit hole looking at jhanas

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u/arup02 Oct 09 '24

I feel like new age people are just happier than the rest. Maybe they're doing something right.

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u/NoamLigotti Oct 09 '24

Yeah, so are monotheists.

Delusions can be comforting.

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u/MoreRopePlease Oct 09 '24

I went to a silent meditation retreat once. During one of the sitting meditations, I noticed I was in a state of consciousness similar to being on mushrooms. Is that an example of jhana?

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u/gmennert Oct 09 '24

I still have the bad sleeps but don’t stress over it anymore. I ‘rewired’ my brain to know that stress is a helpful but overreacting emotion. It sends signals of imminent danger to the brain, but in these times we’re never really in danger. Sit down, feet on the ground, look outside, take a few deep breaths, and ask yourself, are you actually in danger? I have so much less stress nowadays.

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u/evrano Oct 09 '24

You need to figure out what is real and what isn't. Your not going to let this stress you out, take a breath and get back to focusing on your goals.

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u/ILikeRobotsAndDinos Oct 09 '24

I know the stress spiral all too well. If you haven't talked to your doctor about anxiety I would highly recommend it and looking into medicine to help take the edge off. It's crazy how just a little help over a long time makes a huge difference

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u/allseeingblueeye Oct 09 '24

Weirdly i was able to overcome this by knowing in 2 weeks of correct behaviour i can overcome it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

I used to have bad insomnia and trouble sleeping, and I basically had to train myself to sleep normally again by religiously practicing sleep hygiene and just learning not to care about things that stressed me out.

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u/the__ghola__hayt Oct 09 '24

That's where the Trazodone comes into play.

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u/no_modest_bear Oct 09 '24

Out of curiosity, how would you describe the sensation of taking it?

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u/the__ghola__hayt Oct 10 '24

From what I remember, I never got too drowsy at night, but I did often feel groggy the next morning. Other than that, I didn't feel anything really.

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u/no_modest_bear Oct 10 '24

Okay, thanks! Was curious as someone close to me takes it and gets absolutely knocked out right after. Seems pretty effective, but I know that kind of stuff affects everyone differently.

1

u/Falloutboy2222 Oct 10 '24

Try drugs. Puts me right out.

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u/Sans45321 Oct 09 '24

I should not have a brain in that case

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u/philosoraptocopter Oct 09 '24

Ah, a fellow sufferer of Festering Gunked Up Brain Cavity Syndrome

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

Good question, one related bit of information that might help: i saw Dr.Rhonda Patrick describe a study in which they concluded that if you sleep 6 or less hours a night you are insulin resistant when you first wake up, however, if you exercise as soon as you wake up it can stop the insulin resistance. If i remember correctly, there was also a correlation with mortality related to cardiac issues in this same group (people that sleep 6 or less hours).

She essentially said that exercise can erase some of the negative effects of poor sleep.

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u/doyouevenIift Oct 09 '24

Uh oh, ive been sleeping 6 hours or less a night for 10 years. Guess I’m in for some issues later in life

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u/squeasy_2202 Oct 09 '24

It's not too late to make a shift in your sleeping habits. Sleep is an amazing medicine.

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u/cjsolx Oct 09 '24

You can't undo the last 10 years. But you can still do the best for yourself moving forward.

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u/Competitive_Success5 Oct 10 '24

You're memory might already be impaired from that, so maybe you're misremembering how little sleep you got

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u/waterinabottle MS | Protein Chemistry | Biophysics Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 10 '24

Dr. Rhonda Patrick

immediate user block

eta:

shes not exactly a quack, more like quack-adjacent. She has a LOT of fans. She is educated in nutritional science but the fans generally are not. She calls herself a scientist but she is a pretty bad scientist at best. She says a lot of reasonable things but also a lot of unreasonable things. She sometimes cites her sources, but a lot of the time they are not high quality citations (sometimes they are even pseudoscience). She is also very prone to being a contrarian and a lot of what she says sounds somewhat reasonable on a surface level but if you dig deeper you'll see that she is either cherry picking information or has completely misunderstood the previous research on the subject matter. A lot of what she says is not crazy and its easy to understand for people with no education in nutrition science and she generally comes across as trustworthy. However, she uses that trust as a trojan horse for her less scientifically rigorous ideas. This is why she is dangerous, she uses her education as a marketing tool, mixes good information with misinformation, and says that she is giving you information that your doctor is not privy to. What ends up happening is that most of her fans just accept what she says without questioning it, even if her advice is actually bad advice.

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u/NoamLigotti Oct 09 '24

Is she a quack/grifter? I'm unfamiliar.

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u/ZEEZUSCHRIST Oct 09 '24

Did she say what kind of exercise? I’m assuming cardio

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

I do believe it was specific to cardio, but i didn't want to add that detail as I'm not 100 percent on that one.

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u/lensandscope Oct 09 '24

eh, the logic requires that the rate of damage and the rate of recovery is the same. Big assumption to make

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u/Extinction-Entity Oct 09 '24

You’ve got plenty of time, then haha

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u/omgwownice Oct 09 '24

Working out without recovering properly might do more harm than good sometimes.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

I read an article that said sleep lost is lost forever. The damage done from not sleeping cannot be fixed by sleeping better in the future.

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u/ReverendDizzle Oct 09 '24

The research on the impact of third shift work (and the resulting inevitable sleep deprivation that spans years as people try to not miss out on family events and life in general by doing these activities at the equivalent of 3AM for the rest of us) certainly supports that.

I worked graveyard for years in my 20s and while I fell well rested and full of live twenty years on I certainly feel like it put more wear and tear on me than keeping regular hours would have. There were countless times during that period that I slept 3 hours or less a day.

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u/No_Delay7320 Oct 09 '24

Exercise and sleep do very different things. :)

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u/skylions Oct 09 '24

The assumption isn’t so “directional”. Any experience, good or bad, is going to change your brain one way or another. I suppose trauma is one way to classify it, but I think that boxes it in a little bit.

For instance adopting that standpoint, eating healthily and having a good nights rest in some way could be classified as producing “trauma” in the part of the brain that is trying to get you to stay up late and eat junk food. It’s mostly about perspective. This is probably why the authors opted for the word “change” instead.

The real phenomena under discussion is the downstream effects of decisions and experiences. Sleeping well and eating right affects you today, and what you feel today influences how you behave tomorrow, influencing what you experience tomorrow - all the way in to the foreseeable future. Now, the further in time you get away from the decision in question, the less it influences your current behaviour, probably.

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u/runtheplacered Oct 09 '24

eating healthily and having a good nights rest in some way could be classified as producing “trauma” in the part of the brain that is trying to get you to stay up late and eat junk food

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me like any definition of trauma I can find seems to specifically define it as something negative to the person. I don't think anyone is using the word trauma from the perspective of the ailment. "I'm going to give this cancer some trauma" is something I can't say I've heard before.

I agree, it is about perspective, but I think the perspective is always from the patient's POV.

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u/skylions Oct 09 '24

I would argue that a medical definition of trauma only considers physical injury; and injury concerns damage to function, discounting any considerations about positive or negative effects on a patient. Trauma can happen to a cell body and can be initiated by the brain, changing its function.

By adopting behaviours like kicking an addiction, your brain is in effect causing trauma to cells and networks that reinforce the addiction.

But I do think trauma is a suboptimal word to describe what the article is talking about, and that’s why they opted for the word “change” instead.

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u/InTheEndEntropyWins Oct 09 '24

What if a bad night's sleep is followed the next day with a good session of exercise that gets the heart and lungs pumping? Even-steven?

I generally think about it like, exercise after a bad night of sleep undoes some damage but not all.

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u/MoffKalast Oct 09 '24

What if a bad night's sleep is followed the next day with a good session of exercise that gets the heart and lungs pumping? Even-steven?

First you get tired from a lack of sleep, then you get even more tired from exercise. At that point most people go for a caffeinated stimulant and call it good.

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u/nililini Oct 09 '24

Looks like im fucked, I absolutely HATE sleeping and my sleep schedule is diabolical, I often sleep for only few hours or even 1 and then go to sleep in the late morning or try to do an all nighter that results in a fail and me going to sleep at 5 or 6 in the morning after wchich i sleep 12 hours to then wake up at basically night, Why cant we just have noce things...

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u/modernbox Oct 09 '24

Why do you hate sleeping? Learn to love it and look forward to it, be vulnerable and grant yourself rest. No escape from it, everything sleeps in some way.

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u/nililini Oct 10 '24

"be vurnelable" Its not that i am one of those alpha sigma guys and wiew sleep as for weak people, its just that I dislike it for a few reasons

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u/ReverendDizzle Oct 09 '24

Out of curiosity do you actually hate being asleep for some reason or do you hate the process of going to sleep and the frustrations associated with in? Most people I know who use hate to describe something about sleep hate having insomnia or phase-delayed sleep issues.

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u/nililini Oct 10 '24

I like going to sleep when im tired, in that situation I fall asleep very quickly, but when im not tired I despise it, I fall asleep in like 30 minutes or more and im not tired so instead of preparing mentally for sleep I would prefer doing something else and so I do until I get tired wchich sometimes doesnt come quickly or at all Sometimes I do manage to sleep regularly at the same times each day, but then I need to break that cycle because i also hate routines and the repeatability of them, else I would go crazy

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u/ReverendDizzle Oct 10 '24

I feel you on the first part. I can fall asleep almost instantly but I only get in bed when I actually feel tired.

I will say that the second part sounds like a recipe for misery though. Save the novelty seeking for your waking hours, but do try to get some sort of routine down for sleep. It's too important.

Perhaps your best bet is to increase your physical activity (and walk back your rise time) until you actually feel tired at the end of the day without any extra effort or routines.

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u/themathmajician Oct 09 '24

It'll be a rolling average.

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u/AltruisticMode9353 Oct 09 '24

Probably not, because if you did that every night I think we can guess how you'd feel after a few weeks.

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u/CassandraTruth Oct 09 '24

There is no assumption or proposed explanation yet, this is extremely early research and only studied 1 patient from what I could tell. All they are claiming is there are statistically identifiable impacts on qualities like memory, attention and self-identified mood that correlate with measurements from the fMRI and that these effects seem to follow after the subject's behavior.