r/science • u/Hermitically • Nov 11 '21
RETRACTED - Medicine SARS–CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro
https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/10/20565
Nov 11 '21
Implications for vaccines?
My assumption is that controlled exposure is still WAY more safe and sane than rolling the dice on a natural infection at this point (we presumably need the risk of infection to be at least an order of magnitude lower) but it could make a case for lower dosage follow-up shots later on in the future.
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u/infraspace Nov 13 '21
We can't draw any conclusions for vaccines from this really for several reasons:
It's an in vitro study on Kidney cells. Live human muscle cells are where the vaccine goes.
The study used actual virus spike proteins and saw they could penetrate into the cell, even into nucleus!. The vaccines however all produce altered spike proteins that are specifically engineered to NOT be able to penetrate into cells.
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Nov 13 '21
That last bit is new news to me. That's interesting. I didn't know that the spike protein was altered.
As an aside, I'm not AGAINST vaccination by any means - I see it as a calculated risk with relatively high benefits and seemingly 0 costs/risks. I do think critical discussions need to occur (the only downside is that said discussions seem to be hijacked by scientifically illiterate/bad actors).
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u/Eorthin Nov 15 '21
Here's an article on it -https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38
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u/boofbeer Nov 13 '21
The vaccines however all produce altered spike proteins that are specifically engineered to NOT be able to penetrate into cells.
Into cells, or into cell nuclei? If the spike proteins can't get out of the cells, it's hard to understand how they would trigger the adaptive immune system to produce antibodies, and if they can't get in, it's hard to understand how they'd get out.
The spike proteins are created inside cells when mRNA is translated, right?
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u/infraspace Nov 14 '21
I'm not a doctor or in any way qualified in molecular biology so take this with a pinch of salt: There are natural processes in the body shuttling waste out of, and nutrients into cells. I have no problem believing that cells are capable of expelling the spike proteins like any other waste product. I think the muscle and lymph cells can hold these proteins on their surfaces deliberately, so that the immune cells can learn about them then.
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u/I-just-wanna-talk- Nov 22 '21
The vaccines however all produce altered spike proteins that are specifically engineered to NOT be able to penetrate into cells.
A friend of mine (who doesn't have a reddit account) wants me to ask you this:
"I didn't know that they were designed not to be able to pass cell membranes. Good to know! Do you have a source for this? I have a question though: Spike proteins are assembled in cells. Either if a virus hijacks the cell or if the mRNA from the vaccination gets into the cell. So the important question here as far as I understand isn't whether the spike protein can penetrate through the cell membrane, but through the nuclear envelope. Do you know anything about that?"
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u/infraspace Nov 22 '21 edited Nov 22 '21
The vaccines however all produce altered spike proteins that are specifically engineered to NOT be able to penetrate into cells.
A friend of mine (who doesn't have a reddit account) wants me to ask you this:
"I didn't know that they were designed not to be able to pass cell membranes. Good to know! Do you have a source for this?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8390073/
Edit: and this one from elsewhere in the thread: https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/vaccines/tiny-tweak-behind-COVID-19/98/i38
The spike protein is altered to remain in its "prefusion" state, making it incapable of binding to human ace2 receptors.
I have a question though: Spike proteins are assembled in cells. Either if a virus hijacks the cell or if the mRNA from the vaccination gets into the cell. So the important question here as far as I understand isn't whether the spike protein can penetrate through the cell membrane, but through the nuclear envelope. Do you know anything about that?"
I don't have a cite for that at the moment. I'll try and find one.
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Nov 16 '21
[deleted]
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Nov 16 '21 edited Nov 17 '21
Awesome... conspiracy theorists.
I do think there's room to question things but... unquestioning acceptance of counter narratives is just as bad.
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